Browns Defense
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Some places think both Haason Reddick [Cards] and Jarrad Davis [Lions] could be acquired
Both would be a lot more athletic [Both are 2017 first round LB's] and therefore hopefully able to execute passD than anyone we could get at the equivalent spot in 2021. I wouldn't go any higher but 4th seems doable for both. Neither are starters and so expectations would have to be low.
Also Justin Reid [S, Texans] because the texans need picks, and Tyquan Lewis [DT, Colts] because he's a starter buried behind Buckner.
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And going back to 1994, about 26 years, at 5-2 it was the best start since Bill B. was running things here.
What a difference a week makes.
Unfortunately the defense was still atrocious a week ago, we just happened to have an outstanding drive at the end of the game. Think about forcing 1 punt in 2 games...and last week, you basically got bailed out by two plays (int and fumble) or else it would have been curtains. Remember that Dallas game? We lose that game unless OBJ rips off that reverse TD. Something is very wrong with them, and I guess we just need to hope we can outscore everyone because we ain't stopping nobody.
This is still the best season I can remember in recent history, so I don't want to lose sight of that. But...but...damn man. It's so hard to watch. Can't tackle and can't ever make a play on 3rd or 4th down. Ever.
Unfortunately the defense was still atrocious a week ago, we just happened to have an outstanding drive at the end of the game. Think about forcing 1 punt in 2 games...and last week, you basically got bailed out by two plays (int and fumble) or else it would have been curtains. Remember that Dallas game? We lose that game unless OBJ rips off that reverse TD. Something is very wrong with them, and I guess we just need to hope we can outscore everyone because we ain't stopping nobody.
This is still the best season I can remember in recent history, so I don't want to lose sight of that. But...but...damn man. It's so hard to watch. Can't tackle and can't ever make a play on 3rd or 4th down. Ever.
if obj would have ran that same play against the steelers, he would have got his head ripped off....dallas on defense makes us look like the 85 bears...thats how bad they are...
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Unfortunately the defense was still atrocious a week ago, we just happened to have an outstanding drive at the end of the game. Think about forcing 1 punt in 2 games...and last week, you basically got bailed out by two plays (int and fumble) or else it would have been curtains. Remember that Dallas game? We lose that game unless OBJ rips off that reverse TD. Something is very wrong with them, and I guess we just need to hope we can outscore everyone because we ain't stopping nobody.
This is still the best season I can remember in recent history, so I don't want to lose sight of that. But...but...damn man. It's so hard to watch. Can't tackle and can't ever make a play on 3rd or 4th down. Ever.
if obj would have ran that same play against the steelers, he would have got his head ripped off....dallas on defense makes us look like the 85 bears...thats how bad they are...
if obj would have ran that same play against the steelers, he would have got his head ripped off....dallas on defense makes us look like the 85 bears...thats how bad they are...
Yeah, that's true. But it still doesn't change the fact we lost our explosive play maker. Just really hurts and makes me so sad for OBJ. I blew my knee out two years ago and I am not the same. I know the pain that waits for him, and I know the frustration that comes with it.
Back to the defense...
They’ve now given up more first downs (195) than any defense in the league. They’re also 26th in 3rd down D and 31st on fourth down.
Jesus....
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Some guy on here would say "you can't fix everything in one year"......OK, but you can fuck up half the team in one year, it seems.
Some guy on here would say "you can't fix everything in one year"......OK, but you can fuck up half the team in one year, it seems.
i think we are at the point now that we can say we can't fix everything in 20 yrs now....hahahahahaaaaaa....its a fucking true fact with this fucked up organization
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IMO we assumed a two year rebuild. Go back and watch our defense at the end of last year. We blamed the Coordinator and rightfully so but we were void of talent as well. Others said well Garrett was out- our backers and secondary were putrid last year too I didn’t need Garrett on or off the field to see that. Tackling was awful too.
This offseason we drafted our LT and signed RT in hopes giving the QB everything he needed so we could assess his ability to play the position long term. Not a terrible strategy. But there folks all in this forum saying to draft a tackle, sign a tackle, draft a guard high and for good measure just draft depth there too when The issues on offense last year were largely Baker and the play caller.
Ya, but there is no excuse to be in the top 5 year after year in cap space, when your defensive players aren't even middle of the road. If your in a rebuild that is fine, sign 3 or 4 vets to 2-3 year contracts and put up a damn fight.... This defense is going to cost them a shot at making the playoffs. Always thinking about next year, when next year is completely uncertain.
On a side note, anybody see Ogbah absolutely destroy Goff on that fumble scoop and score play. Guy has 6 sacks this season too. Man, that trade was awful.
there is no excuse to be in the top 5 year after year in cap space
This is NOT the case.
The cap this year is 198.2
Our liabilities this year are 198.0.
The so-called "cap space" is all due to "Rollover" from the Sashi years. Its value is zero the year after it's spent. Further explanation in the link below.
The smart way to think of this is that we can resign our actual good young players to cap-friendly long-term deals.. and NOT to touch it otherwise. Of course, that means we'll spend it on another washed-up moron because "Nobody could have guessed that a 41-year old safety lost a step"
Our actual 2020 cap space is 0.2 million. That's a large salary for you or me.. but in the NFL that's barely a practice squad player.
Also note that the cap will decrease anywhere from 30-80M from 2020 to 2021.. so we could use this as an opportunity to be buyers next offseason.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Someone ask Yipper to explain how our 2019, 22nd-ranked D was "fucked up" this year on its way to being 19th-ranked.
Dear Dutch...
FIFY... follow the money. It was focused on the O-side... draft, yes, but also FA signings (Conklin)and contract extensions, e.g., Bito...
Yours truly,
A Narrator
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now but it dates back to last year. I am sorry I didn’t state the obvious.
The game Sunday reminded of the Bengal, 2nd Steeler game, Cardinal game in 2019. Guys out of place, bad tackling, lack of hustle from some players
The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now
You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
there is no excuse to be in the top 5 year after year in cap space
This is NOT the case.
The cap this year is 198.2
Our liabilities this year are 198.0.
The so-called "cap space" is all due to "Rollover" from the Sashi years. Its value is zero the year after it's spent. Further explanation in the link below.
The smart way to think of this is that we can resign our actual good young players to cap-friendly long-term deals.. and NOT to touch it otherwise. Of course, that means we'll spend it on another washed-up moron because "Nobody could have guessed that a 41-year old safety lost a step"
Our actual 2020 cap space is 0.2 million. That's a large salary for you or me.. but in the NFL that's barely a practice squad player.
Also note that the cap will decrease anywhere from 30-80M from 2020 to 2021.. so we could use this as an opportunity to be buyers next offseason.
Thanks for the Cap 101 summary...
Of course, that means we'll spend it on another washed-up moron because "Nobody could have guessed that a 41-year old safety lost a step"
You probably meant to say, "... a vet on a bargain, essentially league-minimum, one-year deal to fill out a roster?"
And we absolutely will do that...
As the cap grows we'll add talent thru the draft, keep extending the good players we've landed and add an prize UFA here and there. The "rollover" will remain banked until it's time to make that final push... and despite the anguish in the peanut gallery, that time ain't 2020.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks for the Cap 101 summary...
Of course, that means we'll spend it on another washed-up moron because "Nobody could have guessed that a 41-year old safety lost a step"
You probably meant to say, "... a vet on a bargain, essentially league-minimum, one-year deal to fill out a roster?"
And we absolutely will do that...
As the cap grows we'll add talent thru the draft, keep extending the good players we've landed and add an prize UFA here and there. The "rollover" will remain banked until it's time to make that final push... and despite the anguish in the peanut gallery, that time ain't 2020.
As the cap grows we'll add talent thru the draft, keep extending the good players we've landed and add an prize UFA here and there. The "rollover" will remain banked until it's time to make that final push... and despite the anguish in the peanut gallery, that time ain't 2020.
Hahahahaha..... I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not... based on the fact that this team has been unable to do any of this for the last 20 years...
Always next year!
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The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now
You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
No, that is not what I meant, Cowardly Lion. You read everything literally? I guess you must be getting ready for Armageddon. ... in essence I said it is fucked up because nothing has really been done to help it.
But, riddle this : why is it that reports are that we have over 38 mill in cap space....yet Unsymp says we have only like 200 K in cap space? And why is it necessary now to "save cap space" for the future. If you sign a guy now to a contract for the rest of this year....how does that affect next year? Unless you sign that guy again to a new contract for next year?
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You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
No, that is not what I meant, Cowardly Lion. You read everything literally? I guess you must be getting ready for Armageddon. ... in essence I said it is fucked up because nothing has really been done to help it.
But, riddle this : why is it that reports are that we have over 38 mill in cap space....yet Unsymp says we have only like 200 K in cap space? And why is it necessary now to "save cap space" for the future. If you sign a guy now to a contract for the rest of this year....how does that affect next year? Unless you sign that guy again to a new contract for next year?
Browns OverTheCap -- Total Cap Liabilities: $197,990,518 = 2020 Browns salary expenses.
2020 NFL salary cap = 198,200,000.
Maths alert: [198,200,000 - 197,990,518] = Browns are 209,482 under the cap based on 2020 salaries alone. [Note active cap spending is 183.9, dead money is 14 for a total of 197.9]
Also on the most recent link we see a formula: Team Salary Cap = (Base Salary Cap) + (Carryover) +/- (Adjustments).
So, since we see that the Browns are listed as having a "team cap space" of $30,709,629.. only 209,482 of that are due to 2020 salaries under the 2020 salary cap. The remaining [30,709,629 - 209,482] or 30,500,147 is carryover, aka "Rollover." More Detail about Rollover
"Under the CBA, teams are permitted to carry over unused salary cap space to the following season."
Note that from the last link, our FA burned half of our rollover this past offseason.. so don't let yourself think we're not being aggressive.. we are aggressive, we're just not very good at it..
And why is it necessary now to "save cap space" for the future
When we re-sign Ward and give him a 10M bonus.. that bonus would otherwise count against that season's player salary cap and would basically mean we'd have to let a different 10Mm/yr FA walk rather than resign him. Instead, we could use 10M of the 30M currently in our rollover and not let some other FA walk. Sure, you can also amortize the bonus over some number of years but the point is that the 198.2 cap is still a max whether it's a good backup DB or one guy's bonus.
Spending [Wasting!] cap space on FA's who aren't any good is a big part of why priorGM was escorted out of the building..
An example of a good trade that Berry should have done is a 6th [Only a sixth!] for CB/S King from the Bolts who was an All-Pro in 2018. CLE's 6th is better than the pick they accepted from TEN, so this was very doable.
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As the cap grows we'll add talent thru the draft, keep extending the good players we've landed and add an prize UFA here and there. The "rollover" will remain banked until it's time to make that final push... and despite the anguish in the peanut gallery, that time ain't 2020.
Hahahahaha..... I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not... based on the fact that this team has been unable to do any of this for the last 20 years...
Always next year!
Hahahahaha..... I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not... based on the fact that this team has been unable to do any of this for the last 20 years...
It's not...
If you believe our past dooms our future, then WTF are you doing here?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Someone ask Yipper to explain how our 2019, 22nd-ranked D was "fucked up" this year on its way to being 19th-ranked.
There's a narrative on here from some that the Browns focused
almost exclusivelyon offense this year, and will focus on defense next offseason.Dear Dutch...
FIFY... follow the money. It was focused on the O-side... draft, yes, but also FA signings (Conklin)and contract extensions, e.g., Bito...
Yours truly,
A Narrator
Let's just hope Myles Garrett's MRI on the knee today doesn't give us bad news. If so, we're back to watching the same defense we had in his absence last year - and that wasn't very much fun,,,
IMO we assumed a two year rebuild. Go back and watch our defense at the end of last year. We blamed the Coordinator and rightfully so but we were void of talent as well. Others said well Garrett was out- our backers and secondary were putrid last year too I didn’t need Garrett on or off the field to see that. Tackling was awful too.
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
The D was leading the entire NFL in turnovers/takeaways for much of the first 7 weeks of the season. That's a pretty good place to rank #1 in the NFL so I'll take it.. Myles Garrett, who received a healthy contract extension, had a lot to do with causing many of these turnovers.
We have 8 weeks left - so let's see what happens from here...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
It's not...
If you believe our past dooms our future, then WTF are you doing here?
You placing bets on a "future" instead of taking a 5-3 start and pushing for a playoff run.
History is a good teacher. Where should the Browns be placing their bet?
A weak schedule in front of them with five wins in their pocket already OR save for a future that is unknown.
I'll double down right now, make the playoffs and let the bodies fall where they may.
I've watched an 8-8 Giants team win the Super Bowl and a Back Up QB win MVP in the Super Bowl.
I'll take my chances this year, rather than draft the next Barkevious Mingo next year.
In the last two days I've watched teams that don't even have black holes on their defense pick up guys at depth for 6th and 7th round road apple picks that would make this defense better in every aspect while Berry has sat on his hands Sashi style and let them trot out Sandejo and Taki Taki to keep all that sweet sweet draft capital that they never hit on.
Delpit couldn't even make it through camp, Elliot has 2 tackles all season (which is pretty shitty considering he didn't even register a solo tackle until the Raiders game.... even when Ogunjobi was out) Phillips has seen 10 snaps all year... The Browns have the 4th youngest team in the NFL. How many of the 9 draft picks are making this team next year....
Fix the damn holes.
All teams have to do is watch that god awful Raiders game tape and stuff it straight down the Browns throats the rest of the season.
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The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now
You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
It wasn’t good last year and it isn’t good this year. What difference does it make other than were put on notice this offseason and didn’t do enough. It wasn’t the highest priority - that was fixing the Oline and getting a head coach in place. Both were great priorities don’t get me wrong.
Does anyone truly think the defense was good last year? We got beat by a QB named “Duck” and we made Mixon look like Sayers. And Probably the most disgusting display of defense turn on the Cards Browns 2019 game.
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It's not...
If you believe our past dooms our future, then WTF are you doing here?
Inventory of the Whinery shows some guys need a new hobby.
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You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
No, that is not what I meant, Cowardly Lion. You read everything literally? I guess you must be getting ready for Armageddon. ... in essence I said it is fucked up because nothing has really been done to help it.
But, riddle this : why is it that reports are that we have over 38 mill in cap space....yet Unsymp says we have only like 200 K in cap space? And why is it necessary now to "save cap space" for the future. If you sign a guy now to a contract for the rest of this year....how does that affect next year? Unless you sign that guy again to a new contract for next year?
But, riddle this : why is it that reports are that we have over 38 mill in cap space....yet Unsymp says we have only like 200 K in cap space? And why is it necessary now to "save cap space" for the future. If you sign a guy now to a contract for the rest of this year....how does that affect next year? Unless you sign that guy again to a new contract for next year?
Unsympathetic explained it pretty well. That 38 million in cap is rollover cap space and is typically saved to resign the good young players you have on your team. Do some research on "rollover cap" in the nfl. It may help you to better understand.
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It's not...
If you believe our past dooms our future, then WTF are you doing here?
You placing bets on a "future" instead of taking a 5-3 start and pushing for a playoff run.
History is a good teacher. Where should the Browns be placing their bet?
A weak schedule in front of them with five wins in their pocket already OR save for a future that is unknown.
I'll double down right now, make the playoffs and let the bodies fall where they may.
I've watched an 8-8 Giants team win the Super Bowl and a Back Up QB win MVP in the Super Bowl.
I'll take my chances this year, rather than draft the next Barkevious Mingo next year.
In the last two days I've watched teams that don't even have black holes on their defense pick up guys at depth for 6th and 7th round road apple picks that would make this defense better in every aspect while Berry has sat on his hands Sashi style and let them trot out Sandejo and Taki Taki to keep all that sweet sweet draft capital that they never hit on.
Delpit couldn't even make it through camp, Elliot has 2 tackles all season (which is pretty shitty considering he didn't even register a solo tackle until the Raiders game.... even when Ogunjobi was out) Phillips has seen 10 snaps all year... The Browns have the 4th youngest team in the NFL. How many of the 9 draft picks are making this team next year....
Fix the damn holes.
All teams have to do is watch that god awful Raiders game tape and stuff it straight down the Browns throats the rest of the season.
teams that don't even have black holes on their defense pick up guys at depth for 6th and 7th round road apple picks
Stop with the revisionist history. This is absolutely not true. The only deal we could/should have done is a 6th for Bolts' Desmond King - now a Chief - who has a 74.0 rating.
Williamson is a 43.2 -- 10 points higher than mack wilson but still lower than rookie LB's. 50 is average.. lower than that is not a good player. Here's an example of a backup rookie LB rated above 50 on a long contract.
Ngakoue pulls off a decent pass rush 6 plays a game [and gets a pressure on one of them every other game] - but hasn't cracked 30 on his run defense grade this year. He's a 245 pound edge.. just like Barkevious Mingo.
These guys are NOT better than people we already have on our roster.
Those draft picks are 4-year contracts.. which is more useful than trading for someone who's no different than one of the several guys we're already over. 50 is the Mendoza line, not hard.
I'll double down right now, make the playoffs
You'll double down right now on players who are no different than the ones you want to bench, FAIL TO make the playoffs, and leave the franchise with no resources to acquire either starters or actual quality depth. FA moves do fail - ask Albert Haynesworth.
If you want to assume a random barely-a-starter inhales pixie dust when he walks through the doors at Berea [and parties with Johnny Football] which results in him becoming Luke Kuechly for the next 8 games, go right ahead. I, however, don't believe in santa claus any more.
OR save for a future that is unknown
The success of the trades you propose is MORE unknown -- because except for King, we actually do know the players you're targeting perform no better than the ones already on the Browns roster.. and they've been the same player for several years.
If you seriously aren't interested in looking at the actual talent of players you want to sign, just offer the vet minimum who aren't on a roster anywhere. They'll cost less.. and your goal of Making Random Moves For The Sake Of Brownian Motion will be achieved!
Life is hard - there is no sure thing.
An example of a better LB to replace mack wilson would be... jacob phillips who was still out injured vs LV but will [I hope] play serious minutes after the bye. Note, of course, that Phillips is outperforming Williamson this year..
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
The D was leading the entire NFL in turnovers/takeaways for much of the first 7 weeks of the season. That's a pretty good place to rank #1 in the NFL so I'll take it.. Myles Garrett, who received a healthy contract extension, had a lot to do with causing many of these turnovers.
We have 8 weeks left - so let's see what happens from here...
The D was leading the entire NFL in turnovers/takeaways for much of the first 7 weeks of the season. That's a pretty good place to rank #1 in the NFL so I'll take it.. Myles Garrett, who received a healthy contract extension, had a lot to do with causing many of these turnovers.
We have 8 weeks left - so let's see what happens from here...
currently the d ranks 19th....so it is not the worse but far from being an elite d....i would have thought it was worse than 19th....they are probably lumped in with the other teams that are 20th thru 25 by give and take a few yds....don't know for sure....
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It's not...
If you believe our past dooms our future, then WTF are you doing here?
You placing bets on a "future" instead of taking a 5-3 start and pushing for a playoff run.
History is a good teacher. Where should the Browns be placing their bet?
A weak schedule in front of them with five wins in their pocket already OR save for a future that is unknown.
I'll double down right now, make the playoffs and let the bodies fall where they may.
I've watched an 8-8 Giants team win the Super Bowl and a Back Up QB win MVP in the Super Bowl.
I'll take my chances this year, rather than draft the next Barkevious Mingo next year.
In the last two days I've watched teams that don't even have black holes on their defense pick up guys at depth for 6th and 7th round road apple picks that would make this defense better in every aspect while Berry has sat on his hands Sashi style and let them trot out Sandejo and Taki Taki to keep all that sweet sweet draft capital that they never hit on.
Delpit couldn't even make it through camp, Elliot has 2 tackles all season (which is pretty shitty considering he didn't even register a solo tackle until the Raiders game.... even when Ogunjobi was out) Phillips has seen 10 snaps all year... The Browns have the 4th youngest team in the NFL. How many of the 9 draft picks are making this team next year....
Fix the damn holes.
All teams have to do is watch that god awful Raiders game tape and stuff it straight down the Browns throats the rest of the season.
Fix the damn holes.
With rentals?
Again... any playoff appearance would be gravy this season. The "fixing" continues in 2021.
It wasn’t good last year and it isn’t good this year. What difference does it make other than were put on notice this offseason and didn’t do enough. It wasn’t the highest priority - that was fixing the Oline and getting a head coach in place. Both were great priorities don’t get me wrong.
Does anyone truly think the defense was good last year? We got beat by a QB named “Duck” and we made Mixon look like Sayers. And Probably the most disgusting display of defense turn on the Cards Browns 2019 game.
So.... we agree?
I honestly can't tell at this point...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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