Higgins vs Hodge
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I wanted to update this after our Wild Card win over the Steelers. During the game Collinsworth said that Higgins doesn't run good routes and he's not fast, while he was praising the connection he and Baker have. Kind of a backhanded compliment if you will. But the gist is that he doesn't think Higgins runs good routes. I mean, we know that he's not real fast, but we don't really get to watch his route running too much. - I did see a replay from the game where Landry put a beautiful head and shoulders fake on a DB to dart inside and have separation...and catch the pass. If you're going against man coverage, you've gotta be a good route runner to get any separation...and to be able to be a reliable target. That's what makes the OBJ's and the Landry's of the league so good.
I’d like to see the analytics on percentage of contested catches. I think Hollywood does a good job with a defender draped over him making grabs. Yes, I don’t think he separates that well and he’s not a blazer in fact probably not “fast” I haven’t noticed bad route running - I guess we will defer to the 2rd rate 80s Bengal WR.
You usually need “quicks” speed or be a polished route runner to survive at that level.
I guess we will defer to the 2rd rate 80s Bengal WR.
I know you're trying to make a point, but 2nd rate?
Cris had 5 healthy seasons and posted 1000+ in four of them (starting with his rookie season) and 989 in the fifth.
Dude was tall (6'5) and fast (4.4 in the 40) and agile... problem was that at 192# he was a rail. Had great hands as well...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I guess we will defer to the 2rd rate 80s Bengal WR.
I know you're trying to make a point, but 2nd rate?
Cris had 5 healthy seasons and posted 1000+ in four of them (starting with his rookie season) and 989 in the fifth.
Dude was tall (6'5) and fast (4.4 in the 40) and agile... problem was that at 192# he was a rail. Had great hands as well...
Dude was tall (6'5) and fast (4.4 in the 40) and agile
- talking about Chris Collinsworth - He was a genuine pain in the ass to our defense. I hated him. I hated him in 2007 when he was talking about us and was so obviously disappointed sounding when he was saying that it looks like the Browns were going to the playoffs. (he obviously hated us. and, of course, we didn't end up going to the playoffs).
But I always thought that he was a good receiver. And I thought he was a quality commentator. Articulate and knowledgeable. And judging by his work during our Wild Card game broadcast, he's gotten over his playing days hatred of us.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I wanted to update this after our Wild Card win over the Steelers. During the game Collinsworth said that Higgins doesn't run good routes and he's not fast, while he was praising the connection he and Baker have. Kind of a backhanded compliment if you will. But the gist is that he doesn't think Higgins runs good routes. I mean, we know that he's not real fast, but we don't really get to watch his route running too much. - I did see a replay from the game where Landry put a beautiful head and shoulders fake on a DB to dart inside and have separation...and catch the pass. If you're going against man coverage, you've gotta be a good route runner to get any separation...and to be able to be a reliable target. That's what makes the OBJ's and the Landry's of the league so good.
I’d like to see the analytics on percentage of contested catches. I think Hollywood does a good job with a defender draped over him making grabs. Yes, I don’t think he separates that well and he’s not a blazer in fact probably not “fast” I haven’t noticed bad route running - I guess we will defer to the 2rd rate 80s Bengal WR.
You usually need “quicks” speed or be a polished route runner to survive at that level.
I’d like to see the analytics on percentage of contested catches. I think Hollywood does a good job with a defender draped over him making grabs. Yes, I don’t think he separates that well and he’s not a blazer in fact probably not “fast” I haven’t noticed bad route running - I guess we will defer to the 2rd rate 80s Bengal WR.
You usually need “quicks” speed or be a polished route runner to survive at that level.
One thing l noted in the game where we lost all our starting receivers was the diminished ability to make the contested catch. Higgins does a fine job at that. Not quite Landry-esque, but pretty good.
Plenty of guys have carved out a good career by doing just that, making contested catches.
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I wanted to update this after our Wild Card win over the Steelers. During the game Collinsworth said that Higgins doesn't run good routes and he's not fast, while he was praising the connection he and Baker have. Kind of a backhanded compliment if you will. But the gist is that he doesn't think Higgins runs good routes. I mean, we know that he's not real fast, but we don't really get to watch his route running too much. - I did see a replay from the game where Landry put a beautiful head and shoulders fake on a DB to dart inside and have separation...and catch the pass. If you're going against man coverage, you've gotta be a good route runner to get any separation...and to be able to be a reliable target. That's what makes the OBJ's and the Landry's of the league so good.
I’d like to see the analytics on percentage of contested catches. I think Hollywood does a good job with a defender draped over him making grabs. Yes, I don’t think he separates that well and he’s not a blazer in fact probably not “fast” I haven’t noticed bad route running - I guess we will defer to the 2rd rate 80s Bengal WR.
You usually need “quicks” speed or be a polished route runner to survive at that level.
I’d like to see the analytics on percentage of contested catches. I think Hollywood does a good job with a defender draped over him making grabs.
Turns out there's a site for that... ? Pretty good one I've used before. Here's Higgins' and Hodge's...
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/rashard-higgins/
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/khadarel-hodge/
And while I'm at it...
Landry...
I can't attest to their accuracy or methodology. If you look at PFF's ratings you see their top guys are in the mid-60s or so, so clearly there are some subjective differences between them.
However, any site's ratings should be good relative to itself.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Neither of these guys would make the Steelers' roster.. Not sure this is really worth discussion as neither are long-term. DPJ is great as a #4; we need a more reliable and explosive #3 than either of these. They both drop too many and neither can separate from NFL-level man coverage.
That double move DPJ put on against off-man might foreshadow his change of direction and ability to separate when his footwork is right and consistent. Should he continue to improve on that in the off-season, no reason People's can't be a quality NFL receiver. He's a rookie and contributing early - give it time.
That double move DPJ put on against off-man might foreshadow his change of direction and ability to separate when his footwork is right and consistent. Should he continue to improve on that in the off-season, no reason People's can't be a quality NFL receiver. He's a rookie and contributing early - give it time.
He's made several KEY blocks down the stretch here. Rook looks like a steal, though the Buckeye in me wanted KJ Hill
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Dude was tall (6'5) and fast (4.4 in the 40) and agile
- talking about Chris Collinsworth - He was a genuine pain in the ass to our defense. I hated him. I hated him in 2007 when he was talking about us and was so obviously disappointed sounding when he was saying that it looks like the Browns were going to the playoffs. (he obviously hated us. and, of course, we didn't end up going to the playoffs).
But I always thought that he was a good receiver. And I thought he was a quality commentator. Articulate and knowledgeable. And judging by his work during our Wild Card game broadcast, he's gotten over his playing days hatred of us.
- talking about Chris Collinsworth -Articulate and knowledgeable. And judging by his work during our Wild Card game broadcast, he's gotten over his playing days hatred of us.
Yep-he did us a very excellent job.
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Yep-he did us a very excellent job.
When he said, "The Browns are up 28-0, but you know that not a soul in Cleveland is feeling comfortable", I said, He knows us Browns fans pretty well.
But the Browns have broken Soooo many of our negative traditions this season. I've been repeating since mid-way through the season, "We're no longer the same old Browns."
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Yep-he did us a very excellent job.
When he said, "The Browns are up 28-0, but you know that not a soul in Cleveland is feeling comfortable", I said, He knows us Browns fans pretty well.
But the Browns have broken Soooo many of our negative traditions this season. I've been repeating since mid-way through the season, "We're no longer the same old Browns."
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My confession...I muted the sound.
Ive got my mute list: Joe Buck, Chris Collinsworth. I had Booger McFarland last year.
he could have been very complimentary and I wouldn’t have known it.
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I’d like to see the analytics on percentage of contested catches. I think Hollywood does a good job with a defender draped over him making grabs.
Turns out there's a site for that... ? Pretty good one I've used before. Here's Higgins' and Hodge's...
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/rashard-higgins/
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/khadarel-hodge/
And while I'm at it...
Landry...
I can't attest to their accuracy or methodology. If you look at PFF's ratings you see their top guys are in the mid-60s or so, so clearly there are some subjective differences between them.
However, any site's ratings should be good relative to itself.
Turns out there's a site for that... ? Pretty good one I've used before. Here's Higgins' and Hodge's...
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/rashard-higgins/
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/khadarel-hodge/
And while I'm at it...
Landry...
I can't attest to their accuracy or methodology. If you look at PFF's ratings you see their top guys are in the mid-60s or so, so clearly there are some subjective differences between them.
However, any site's ratings should be good relative to itself.
Wow that’s interesting thanks. I’m confused by the target numbers. For instance, they are saying Landry has only 18 targets where he’s been covered?
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My confession...I muted the sound.
Ive got my mute list: Joe Buck, Chris Collinsworth. I had Booger McFarland last year.
he could have been very complimentary and I wouldn’t have known it.
My confession...I muted the sound.
Ive got my mute list: Joe Buck, Chris Collinsworth. I had Booger McFarland last year.
he could have been very complimentary and I wouldn’t have known it.
lol... If you had CLE radio I could see that.
Ditto on Booger... just inane stuff, but I don't mind Buck (altho Aikman is overrated IMO) and I'm good with Al and Cris.
And it wasn't all complementary, but it was honest as Orion was pointing out.
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Turns out there's a site for that... ? Pretty good one I've used before. Here's Higgins' and Hodge's...
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/rashard-higgins/
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/khadarel-hodge/
And while I'm at it...
Landry...
I can't attest to their accuracy or methodology. If you look at PFF's ratings you see their top guys are in the mid-60s or so, so clearly there are some subjective differences between them.
However, any site's ratings should be good relative to itself.
Wow that’s interesting thanks. I’m confused by the target numbers. For instance, they are saying Landry has only 18 targets where he’s been covered?
Wow that’s interesting thanks. I’m confused by the target numbers. For instance, they are saying Landry has only 18 targets where he’s been covered?
In this?
If yes, they really don't define that stat... and few others.
While the little circles with the "i" in them describe the calculation, there's nowhere I have found where they define terms or state criteria... at least not that I've not found on the site.
While many of their measures' bases are intuitively obvious "Contested" is not one of them. I assume they include all instances where there is contact fighting for the ball, but in addition to that? Might include instances where DB jumps for ball but misses it and never makes contact with WR, but blocks receivers sight line or is simply a distraction.
But again, so long as they are consistent in applying whatever criteria they choose...
Anyway... here .722 x 18 = 13 times Landry has made the Contested catch.
Note that other sites do define criteria or at least show examples of qualifying plays as PFF does here.
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Higgins might just be one of those football guys that can just make plays on the field. Never the fastest. Never the biggest. Not the best at anything. Nothing wrong with that.
For some reason he and Baker click. With all the other issues with coaches and staff, his agent would be smart to try to make a solid deal to stay with Baker, because if he goes elsewhere it seems there is a good chance another staff is going to do what two different staffs did here. Could be win/win for everybody though. Get a solid WR at a team friendly price, so you can spend money elsewhere.
As far as route running....I’m not sure the guys IQ is very high. Dude gets pulled over for drag racing, gets caught with weed, cop lets him off on that, cites him for a moving violation. Instead of eating the ticket, shutting up about it and moving on, he goes on Twitter and bitches about it.... that cop did you a solid, and that’s what you do?
Then, because you made everybody aware, the video comes out from TMZ showing you smoke, cop is probably going to get shit from his captain for letting you off easy.... moron...watch what happens next time a Browns player gets pulled over.
After seeing those Mentor Kia ads he did.... reading a Night Before Christmas.... I’m not sure he can read, let alone read a playbook with routes in it....
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Higgins might just be one of those football guys that can just make plays on the field. Never the fastest. Never the biggest. Not the best at anything. Nothing wrong with that.
For some reason he and Baker click. With all the other issues with coaches and staff, his agent would be smart to try to make a solid deal to stay with Baker, because if he goes elsewhere it seems there is a good chance another staff is going to do what two different staffs did here. Could be win/win for everybody though. Get a solid WR at a team friendly price, so you can spend money elsewhere.
As far as route running....I’m not sure the guys IQ is very high. Dude gets pulled over for drag racing, gets caught with weed, cop lets him off on that, cites him for a moving violation. Instead of eating the ticket, shutting up about it and moving on, he goes on Twitter and bitches about it.... that cop did you a solid, and that’s what you do?
Then, because you made everybody aware, the video comes out from TMZ showing you smoke, cop is probably going to get shit from his captain for letting you off easy.... moron...watch what happens next time a Browns player gets pulled over.
After seeing those Mentor Kia ads he did.... reading a Night Before Christmas.... I’m not sure he can read, let alone read a playbook with routes in it....
Higgins might just be one of those football guys that can just make plays on the field. Never the fastest. Never the biggest. Not the best at anything. Nothing wrong with that.
For some reason he and Baker click. With all the other issues with coaches and staff, his agent would be smart to try to make a solid deal to stay with Baker, because if he goes elsewhere it seems there is a good chance another staff is going to do what two different staffs did here. Could be win/win for everybody though. Get a solid WR at a team friendly price, so you can spend money elsewhere.
As far as route running....I’m not sure the guys IQ is very high. Dude gets pulled over for drag racing, gets caught with weed, cop lets him off on that, cites him for a moving violation. Instead of eating the ticket, shutting up about it and moving on, he goes on Twitter and bitches about it.... that cop did you a solid, and that’s what you do?
Then, because you made everybody aware, the video comes out from TMZ showing you smoke, cop is probably going to get shit from his captain for letting you off easy.... moron...watch what happens next time a Browns player gets pulled over.
After seeing those Mentor Kia ads he did.... reading a Night Before Christmas.... I’m not sure he can read, let alone read a playbook with routes in it....
There is Book smart...street smart...football smart. And I’m sure you can find others.
The Browns have had guys over the years that just do dumb stuff on the field...yet they are very articulate off the field and come across intelligent.
Ive played alongside and coached some guys that were challenged to spell the sport they played but they could tell you exactly what they needed to do it. And some academic underachievers have elite subconscious memory in athletics too.
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Higgins might just be one of those football guys that can just make plays on the field. Never the fastest. Never the biggest. Not the best at anything. Nothing wrong with that.
For some reason he and Baker click. With all the other issues with coaches and staff, his agent would be smart to try to make a solid deal to stay with Baker, because if he goes elsewhere it seems there is a good chance another staff is going to do what two different staffs did here. Could be win/win for everybody though. Get a solid WR at a team friendly price, so you can spend money elsewhere.
As far as route running....I’m not sure the guys IQ is very high. Dude gets pulled over for drag racing, gets caught with weed, cop lets him off on that, cites him for a moving violation. Instead of eating the ticket, shutting up about it and moving on, he goes on Twitter and bitches about it.... that cop did you a solid, and that’s what you do?
Then, because you made everybody aware, the video comes out from TMZ showing you smoke, cop is probably going to get shit from his captain for letting you off easy.... moron...watch what happens next time a Browns player gets pulled over.
After seeing those Mentor Kia ads he did.... reading a Night Before Christmas.... I’m not sure he can read, let alone read a playbook with routes in it....
There is Book smart...street smart...football smart. And I’m sure you can find others.
The Browns have had guys over the years that just do dumb stuff on the field...yet they are very articulate off the field and come across intelligent.
Ive played alongside and coached some guys that were challenged to spell the sport they played but they could tell you exactly what they needed to do it. And some academic underachievers have elite subconscious memory in athletics too.
Ive played alongside and coached some guys that were challenged to spell the sport they played
Man..
I hope it wasn't "Ping Pong".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Ive played alongside and coached some guys that were challenged to spell the sport they played
Man..
I hope it wasn't "Ping Pong".
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Ive played alongside and coached some guys that were challenged to spell the sport they played but they could tell you exactly what they needed to do it. And some academic underachievers have elite subconscious memory in athletics too.
Chemin de Fer?
Popinjay?
Sepak Takraw?
Yakkugasin?
Quidditch?
Hornussen?
Marco Polo?
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Ive played alongside and coached some guys that were challenged to spell the sport they played but they could tell you exactly what they needed to do it. And some academic underachievers have elite subconscious memory in athletics too.
Chemin de Fer?
Popinjay?
Sepak Takraw?
Yakkugasin?
Quidditch?
Hornussen?
Marco Polo?
Ive played alongside and coached some guys that were challenged to spell the sport they played but they could tell you exactly what they needed to do it. And some academic underachievers have elite subconscious memory in athletics too.
Chemin de Fer?
Popinjay?
Sepak Takraw?
Yakkugasin?
Quidditch?
Hornussen?
Marco Polo?
Quidditch? I purposely left out fictional sports JK Rowling
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Ive played alongside and coached some guys that were challenged to spell the sport they played but they could tell you exactly what they needed to do it. And some academic underachievers have elite subconscious memory in athletics too.
Chemin de Fer?
Popinjay?
Sepak Takraw?
Yakkugasin?
Quidditch?
Hornussen?
Marco Polo?
Quidditch? I purposely left out fictional sports JK Rowling
Quidditch? I purposely left out fictional sports JK Rowling
Except....you may be unaware, they have adapted that sport to the real world.
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I think it’ll be an interesting off-season for the Browns receiver group. I love Landry but prefer him in the slot. I predict People-Jones outside as #2 with someone new, not OBJ as #1. Hodge and Higgins are fine as 4 & 5. I would love to see Perriman back with the Browns.
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