JJ Watt to Cardinals
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Love JJ.... at one time there was no more dominant Defensive force in the game. He did things I never saw before, but...
... he's a 10-yr vet on the downside of his career who in 2020 managed to have his second healthy season in his last five. And it paled in comparison to his 2018 comeback year... when he played opposite Clowney.
Now maybe that's an argument for moving heaven and earth to line him opposite MG, but first you have to trade for him (apparently he does not have a "no-trade" clause). And then you are getting him on a one-year deal for a mere $17.5mm.
If he signs with a team at a discount, they'll get real value... even at say $10mm/yr. But the list of teams for whom he might be willing to do that is a list of one... and it ain't us.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Never thought of that, meaning the Steelers & the cap. So yeah, Pittsburgh sounds like they are heading to cap hell.
During many NFL broadcasts they kept mentioning how the cap will go down. I'm just wondering if the league & union are able to open up talks about that. The uncertainty of the pandemic probably means management wouldn't be willing to, with the possibility of no fans again.
I don’t think the cap is going down, I think it’s going to hover around 200. The Steelers will likely use qualifying contracts which are voidable. I expect Ben to take a pay cut. Definitely going to lose some players. The Steelers also don’t need jj watt but don’t be shocked if he takes a massive discount to play with his brothers. He’s made his money. I don’t think he really cares about it to that degree anymore and as a likable guy I won’t be shocked to see him transition to broadcasting or just go hard on post retirement endorsements like brett Favre.
I don’t think the cap is going down, I think it’s going to hover around 200. The Steelers will likely use qualifying contracts which are voidable. I expect Ben to take a pay cut. Definitely going to lose some players. The Steelers also don’t need jj watt but don’t be shocked if he takes a massive discount to play with his brothers. He’s made his money. I don’t think he really cares about it to that degree anymore and as a likable guy I won’t be shocked to see him transition to broadcasting or just go hard on post retirement endorsements like brett Favre.
I read somewhere the cap was heading to around $175 million in 2021, down from the present $198 million. If I find it, I'll post it (CBS sports I think).
Karlis Missed -
Love JJ.... at one time there was no more dominant Defensive force in the game. He did things I never saw before, but...
... he's a 10-yr vet on the downside of his career who in 2020 managed to have his second healthy season in his last five. And it paled in comparison to his 2018 comeback year... when he played opposite Clowney.
Now maybe that's an argument for moving heaven and earth to line him opposite MG, but first you have to trade for him (apparently he does not have a "no-trade" clause). And then you are getting him on a one-year deal for a mere $17.5mm.
If he signs with a team at a discount, they'll get real value... even at say $10mm/yr. But the list of teams for whom he might be willing to do that is a list of one... and it ain't us.
Love JJ.... at one time there was no more dominant Defensive force in the game. He did things I never saw before, but...
... he's a 10-yr vet on the downside of his career who in 2020 managed to have his second healthy season in his last five. And it paled in comparison to his 2018 comeback year... when he played opposite Clowney.
Now maybe that's an argument for moving heaven and earth to line him opposite MG, but first you have to trade for him (apparently he does not have a "no-trade" clause). And then you are getting him on a one-year deal for a mere $17.5mm.
If he signs with a team at a discount, they'll get real value... even at say $10mm/yr. But the list of teams for whom he might be willing to do that is a list of one... and it ain't us.
Why do you say not us?
Have we removed the stigma?
Is playing alongside Myles not enticing?
He grew up in the Midwest and his Brothers would be 2 hours away in Pitt. It’s short term too if he doesn’t like it- he can say Bye
17M is a lot but our short term cap number is not the issue (unlike most teams). 22/23/24 we start getting into Myles big number, Baker, etc. Watt will be coaching Dline for Wisconsin then
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I don’t think the cap is going down, I think it’s going to hover around 200. The Steelers will likely use qualifying contracts which are voidable. I expect Ben to take a pay cut. Definitely going to lose some players. The Steelers also don’t need jj watt but don’t be shocked if he takes a massive discount to play with his brothers. He’s made his money. I don’t think he really cares about it to that degree anymore and as a likable guy I won’t be shocked to see him transition to broadcasting or just go hard on post retirement endorsements like brett Favre.
I read somewhere the cap was heading to around $175 million in 2021, down from the present $198 million. If I find it, I'll post it (CBS sports I think).
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Love JJ.... at one time there was no more dominant Defensive force in the game. He did things I never saw before, but...
... he's a 10-yr vet on the downside of his career who in 2020 managed to have his second healthy season in his last five. And it paled in comparison to his 2018 comeback year... when he played opposite Clowney.
Now maybe that's an argument for moving heaven and earth to line him opposite MG, but first you have to trade for him (apparently he does not have a "no-trade" clause). And then you are getting him on a one-year deal for a mere $17.5mm.
If he signs with a team at a discount, they'll get real value... even at say $10mm/yr. But the list of teams for whom he might be willing to do that is a list of one... and it ain't us.
Why do you say not us?
Have we removed the stigma?
Is playing alongside Myles not enticing?
He grew up in the Midwest and his Brothers would be 2 hours away in Pitt. It’s short term too if he doesn’t like it- he can say Bye
17M is a lot but our short term cap number is not the issue (unlike most teams). 22/23/24 we start getting into Myles big number, Baker, etc. Watt will be coaching Dline for Wisconsin then
Why do you say not us?
Have we removed the stigma?
Is playing alongside Myles not enticing?
He grew up in the Midwest and his Brothers would be 2 hours away in Pitt. It’s short term too if he doesn’t like it- he can say Bye
17M is a lot but our short term cap number is not the issue (unlike most teams). 22/23/24 we start getting into Myles big number, Baker, etc. Watt will be coaching Dline for Wisconsin then
He's meaning team that he would be willing to take a massive pay cut to play for.
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Why do you say not us?
Have we removed the stigma?
Is playing alongside Myles not enticing?
He grew up in the Midwest and his Brothers would be 2 hours away in Pitt. It’s short term too if he doesn’t like it- he can say Bye
17M is a lot but our short term cap number is not the issue (unlike most teams). 22/23/24 we start getting into Myles big number, Baker, etc. Watt will be coaching Dline for Wisconsin then
He's meaning team that he would be willing to take a massive pay cut to play for.
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Pittsburgh cannot be signing anyone like JJ Watt. Hell, they are so far over the cap they may have to get rid of TJ Watt! Well....not really. He is the last guy they would trade. They would dump BR first along with half their OL and DB.
As I see it....only maybe 3 players from that team will be impervious from salary cap cuts: TJ Watt; Claypool; Minkah. ...and maybe Heyward. maybe DeCastro.
Never thought of that, meaning the Steelers & the cap. So yeah, Pittsburgh sounds like they are heading to cap hell.
During many NFL broadcasts they kept mentioning how the cap will go down. I'm just wondering if the league & union are able to open up talks about that. The uncertainty of the pandemic probably means management wouldn't be willing to, with the possibility of no fans again.
Never thought of that, meaning the Steelers & the cap. So yeah, Pittsburgh sounds like they are heading to cap hell.
During many NFL broadcasts they kept mentioning how the cap will go down. I'm just wondering if the league & union are able to open up talks about that. The uncertainty of the pandemic probably means management wouldn't be willing to, with the possibility of no fans again.
Vance McDonald retiring has freed up 15M with the increase in cap slightly and his numbers off the books and they steelers didn't have to do anything. We are definitely going to lose some guys but we aren't in as much hell now.
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Never thought of that, meaning the Steelers & the cap. So yeah, Pittsburgh sounds like they are heading to cap hell.
During many NFL broadcasts they kept mentioning how the cap will go down. I'm just wondering if the league & union are able to open up talks about that. The uncertainty of the pandemic probably means management wouldn't be willing to, with the possibility of no fans again.
Vance McDonald retiring has freed up 15M with the increase in cap slightly and his numbers off the books and they steelers didn't have to do anything. We are definitely going to lose some guys but we aren't in as much hell now.
Vance McDonald retiring has freed up 15M with the increase in cap slightly and his numbers off the books and they steelers didn't have to do anything. We are definitely going to lose some guys but we aren't in as much hell now.
Well...they did have to do something....they had to lose Vance McDonald. (but, agree....he has not been much lately....so gaining that cap space is likely more valuable to that team than keeping that player would have been.
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?
You saying why not us, then bring up his current 17 million.
When Tour2ma post was saying IF he were willing to take a huge paycut it wouldn't be for the Browns.
From his EXACT post (which is what I replied about) he said that list is 1.
If you don't want to see the reasoning behind playing with his brothers, ok.
Even taking them out, there are teams that would be more likely to give JJ an opportunity to win a championship next year
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Love JJ.... at one time there was no more dominant Defensive force in the game. He did things I never saw before, but...
... he's a 10-yr vet on the downside of his career who in 2020 managed to have his second healthy season in his last five. And it paled in comparison to his 2018 comeback year... when he played opposite Clowney.
Now maybe that's an argument for moving heaven and earth to line him opposite MG, but first you have to trade for him (apparently he does not have a "no-trade" clause). And then you are getting him on a one-year deal for a mere $17.5mm.
If he signs with a team at a discount, they'll get real value... even at say $10mm/yr. But the list of teams for whom he might be willing to do that is a list of one... and it ain't us.
Why do you say not us?
Have we removed the stigma?
Is playing alongside Myles not enticing?
He grew up in the Midwest and his Brothers would be 2 hours away in Pitt. It’s short term too if he doesn’t like it- he can say Bye
17M is a lot but our short term cap number is not the issue (unlike most teams). 22/23/24 we start getting into Myles big number, Baker, etc. Watt will be coaching Dline for Wisconsin then
Why do you say not us?
You answered your own question when you noted that he has two brothers in the NFL who play just a couple hours east of us.
Playing with Derek and TJ would trump every other consideration. The family is very tight.
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Why do you say not us?
You answered your own question when you noted that he has two brothers in the NFL who play just a couple hours east of us.
Playing with Derek and TJ would trump every other consideration. The family is very tight.
You answered your own question when you noted that he has two brothers in the NFL who play just a couple hours east of us.
Playing with Derek and TJ would trump every other consideration. The family is very tight.
First, he could go to the Steelers.
But He can traded correct? So his deal is in tact. And we can afford it - other contenders can’t afford it. Someone mentioned he didn’t have a no trade clause.
and the Steelers even with his charity have cap problems.
He would play for a contender and not a team on the decline like the Steelers- sorry Vag Browns is not the Browns...and he’s two hours from brothers. They could own a large chunk of land and a big house for a year in Canfield OH and be halfway between Pitt and Cleveland - if they are truly that close
No debate needed although I don’t think you can eliminate the Browns
Is he that picky? He called out his teammates for not manning up and playing the last month. Sounds like a guy that has suck it up buttercup type of mantra.
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?
You saying why not us, then bring up his current 17 million.
When Tour2ma post was saying IF he were willing to take a huge paycut it wouldn't be for the Browns.
From his EXACT post (which is what I replied about) he said that list is 1.
If you don't want to see the reasoning behind playing with his brothers, ok.
Even taking them out, there are teams that would be more likely to give JJ an opportunity to win a championship next year
You saying why not us, then bring up his current 17 million.
When Tour2ma post was saying IF he were willing to take a huge paycut it wouldn't be for the Browns.
From his EXACT post (which is what I replied about) he said that list is 1.
If you don't want to see the reasoning behind playing with his brothers, ok.
Even taking them out, there are teams that would be more likely to give JJ an opportunity to win a championship next year
Going into 2021 We have cap room unlike others. He’s on a one year deal. If we want his 17M for one year WE can take it on
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You saying why not us, then bring up his current 17 million.
When Tour2ma post was saying IF he were willing to take a huge paycut it wouldn't be for the Browns.
From his EXACT post (which is what I replied about) he said that list is 1.
If you don't want to see the reasoning behind playing with his brothers, ok.
Even taking them out, there are teams that would be more likely to give JJ an opportunity to win a championship next year
Going into 2021 We have cap room unlike others. He’s on a one year deal. If we want his 17M for one year WE can take it on
Going into 2021 We have cap room unlike others. He’s on a one year deal. If we want his 17M for one year WE can take it on
Don't disagree. But that wasn't what you replied to with Tour. He specifically said that if JJ were to take a discount it would only be one team and it wouldn't be Cleveland.
Then you replied and asked why not us?
You are arguing something totally different than what you replied to.
If the question is JJ at 17m and would he play in Cleveland at that price, I would think so.
If the question is if he would be a good fit, I certainly believe so.
But if the question (which is what Tour said and reason I replied) is would CLE be his 1 choice at a reduced cost, then I think that would be a absolute no.
And I can't say I understand the logic behind the rest of that post at all. There is certainly a big difference in being 2 hours away and being teammates with your brothers. Sure, the 2 hours is closer than present, but there is a HUGE difference. A good example (not comparing the players caliber at all), but there has been some talk that LeBron may stay in the NBA long enough to play with Jr. Of course he would have to make the league. But since there is no way to know where Jr. would end up, but if those talks are correct the goal would be to play with family, not necessarily who can win, best fit, etc.
And I think we would all agree that the Browns have lost the stigma and that he wouldn't be opposed to playing opposite Myles. But he also wouldn't be opposed to playing with Donald, Jones, Smiths, Barrett, etc; and aside from Donald, all those other guys would seemingly give him the better chance to win a championship (i.e. Chiefs, Packers, Bucs).
Again, I am not saying JJ won't go to Cleveland, that he wouldn't be a fit, or anything like that. I am saying that by what Tour2ma posted and you subsequently replied and asked "Why Not", that is why not
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You saying why not us, then bring up his current 17 million.
When Tour2ma post was saying IF he were willing to take a huge paycut it wouldn't be for the Browns.
From his EXACT post (which is what I replied about) he said that list is 1.
If you don't want to see the reasoning behind playing with his brothers, ok.
Even taking them out, there are teams that would be more likely to give JJ an opportunity to win a championship next year
Going into 2021 We have cap room unlike others. He’s on a one year deal. If we want his 17M for one year WE can take it on
Going into 2021 We have cap room
Nope.
Our salary expense last season was at the cap.
The cap this past season was 198.2; Browns salary expenses were 196.0.
Notice how even in the last couple of weeks the magical one-year-only get-out-of-jail-free has now decreased to only 18.0. Under a month ago it was 30; nobody knows the bizarre clauses and contract dates when guarantees kick in.
If the question is JJ at 17m and would he play in Cleveland at that price
That's NOT the only question though. JJ watt would not sign a one-year deal -- and we only have cap space for one year. After one year we are precisely 2.2 million under the cap BEFORE considering JJ's contract.
Who are you advocating cutting to create space for him after year one?
I know, I know -- you're not. But this is pure bizarro fantasyland.. we don't have the cap space after year one of any deal and he's not signing a one-year deal.
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Going into 2021 We have cap room unlike others. He’s on a one year deal. If we want his 17M for one year WE can take it on
Don't disagree. But that wasn't what you replied to with Tour. He specifically said that if JJ were to take a discount it would only be one team and it wouldn't be Cleveland.
Then you replied and asked why not us?
You are arguing something totally different than what you replied to.
If the question is JJ at 17m and would he play in Cleveland at that price, I would think so.
If the question is if he would be a good fit, I certainly believe so.
But if the question (which is what Tour said and reason I replied) is would CLE be his 1 choice at a reduced cost, then I think that would be a absolute no.
And I can't say I understand the logic behind the rest of that post at all. There is certainly a big difference in being 2 hours away and being teammates with your brothers. Sure, the 2 hours is closer than present, but there is a HUGE difference. A good example (not comparing the players caliber at all), but there has been some talk that LeBron may stay in the NBA long enough to play with Jr. Of course he would have to make the league. But since there is no way to know where Jr. would end up, but if those talks are correct the goal would be to play with family, not necessarily who can win, best fit, etc.
And I think we would all agree that the Browns have lost the stigma and that he wouldn't be opposed to playing opposite Myles. But he also wouldn't be opposed to playing with Donald, Jones, Smiths, Barrett, etc; and aside from Donald, all those other guys would seemingly give him the better chance to win a championship (i.e. Chiefs, Packers, Bucs).
Again, I am not saying JJ won't go to Cleveland, that he wouldn't be a fit, or anything like that. I am saying that by what Tour2ma posted and you subsequently replied and asked "Why Not", that is why not
Don't disagree. But that wasn't what you replied to with Tour. He specifically said that if JJ were to take a discount it would only be one team and it wouldn't be Cleveland.
Then you replied and asked why not us?
You are arguing something totally different than what you replied to.
If the question is JJ at 17m and would he play in Cleveland at that price, I would think so.
If the question is if he would be a good fit, I certainly believe so.
But if the question (which is what Tour said and reason I replied) is would CLE be his 1 choice at a reduced cost, then I think that would be a absolute no.
And I can't say I understand the logic behind the rest of that post at all. There is certainly a big difference in being 2 hours away and being teammates with your brothers. Sure, the 2 hours is closer than present, but there is a HUGE difference. A good example (not comparing the players caliber at all), but there has been some talk that LeBron may stay in the NBA long enough to play with Jr. Of course he would have to make the league. But since there is no way to know where Jr. would end up, but if those talks are correct the goal would be to play with family, not necessarily who can win, best fit, etc.
And I think we would all agree that the Browns have lost the stigma and that he wouldn't be opposed to playing opposite Myles. But he also wouldn't be opposed to playing with Donald, Jones, Smiths, Barrett, etc; and aside from Donald, all those other guys would seemingly give him the better chance to win a championship (i.e. Chiefs, Packers, Bucs).
Again, I am not saying JJ won't go to Cleveland, that he wouldn't be a fit, or anything like that. I am saying that by what Tour2ma posted and you subsequently replied and asked "Why Not", that is why not
Lol.
He’s only going to play for one team at a discount the Steelers. Okay. It is a sure thing. It could Very well happen too.All I’m saying is - we have a chance. And I was advocating that position.
We can write it off now I guess...but what else is there to talk about.
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Going into 2021 We have cap room
Nope.
Our salary expense last season was at the cap.
The cap this past season was 198.2; Browns salary expenses were 196.0.
Notice how even in the last couple of weeks the magical one-year-only get-out-of-jail-free has now decreased to only 18.0. Under a month ago it was 30; nobody knows the bizarre clauses and contract dates when guarantees kick in.
If the question is JJ at 17m and would he play in Cleveland at that price
That's NOT the only question though. JJ watt would not sign a one-year deal -- and we only have cap space for one year. After one year we are precisely 2.2 million under the cap BEFORE considering JJ's contract.
Who are you advocating cutting to create space for him after year one?
I know, I know -- you're not. But this is pure bizarro fantasyland.. we don't have the cap space after year one of any deal and he's not signing a one-year deal.
Nope.
Our salary expense last season was at the cap.
The cap this past season was 198.2; Browns salary expenses were 196.0.
Notice how even in the last couple of weeks the magical one-year-only get-out-of-jail-free has now decreased to only 18.0. Under a month ago it was 30; nobody knows the bizarre clauses and contract dates when guarantees kick in.
That's NOT the only question though. JJ watt would not sign a one-year deal -- and we only have cap space for one year. After one year we are precisely 2.2 million under the cap BEFORE considering JJ's contract.
Who are you advocating cutting to create space for him after year one?
I know, I know -- you're not. But this is pure bizarro fantasyland.. we don't have the cap space after year one of any deal and he's not signing a one-year deal.
So in one post we have JJ only signing a discount with the Steelers...and here we have he will only sign a multi year deal.
I am glad we all have it figured out.
Sounds like a guy coming off an All Pro year.
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The article is correct for the rollover cap that we had during the 2020 season but is incorrect regarding rollover and free cap available during the 2021 season. That article's "free cap" may have been correct using 2020 numbers but those stopped being relevant even last week.
Forbes asserts Browns free cap is 21.5 but that's nonsense.. committed salaries for 2021 are 196.0 and cap for 2021 hasn't been determined yet -- the floor is 175 per prior deal but the actual # will be set in negotiation. Even if the cap was equal to last year of 198.2 that's still only a gap of 2.2.
Look around on OTC and you won't find 21M for the Browns anywhere.. 2021 Browns on the "cap space" link on the upper right shows 18.0, precisely the rollover cap.
In a one word answer - yes - the numbers in that article are fake news.
Most newspaper/magazine writers are on too quick of a deadline [articles/day or some such] to do the legwork I do to research the cap detail. This guy probably had an old version of OTC's details saved on a spreadsheet and just went with that rather than verifying to ensure nothing had changed since he last looked. So his numbers may have been correct around 12/1/2020 or so.. but they're definitely not correct as of 1/22/2021.
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Finally... some "fake news" that really is fake...
On where JJ lands...
- Texans had 3 football Gods exiting the 2019 season: Watt, Watson and Hopkins.
- Hopkins grumbled his way out of Houston in the worst deal n Houston's football history.
- Houston ownership already has a major PR issue in the form of Watson who is grumbling his way out.
- If they trade JJ, then they need a happy JJ to exit. So any trade will be in coordination with him.... with his blessing.
JJ's in the last year of his deal, He has already nixed the idea of any further extension to remain a Texan. He has value so the Texans would be wise to get what they can for him which is likely around a 3rd given that they have no leverage.
JJ is rich, has a summer home in Wisconsin. It's ~4500 sq ft on 35 acres. He has it and as the NFL's first, $100mm DL, all the money he'll ever need. So in the right opportunity he will at minimum restructure, and likely give a discount.
While he might objectively feel that CLE offers him a better shot at a ring than PTG does in 2021, in any case going for a ring in either city is a long shot. He can get better odds in KC or GB... and GB is in? Wisconsin! However, even KC or GB are not sure rings.
The only sure thing he can control is who he plays with and only one team has his two, "NFL-brothers-from-the-very-same-Mother" rostered.
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