2021 'Who are you watching?' NFL prospect thread.
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I'll take "the field".
If you win, Gipper finally has to pay you the $100 he owes you. ?
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I'm slowly accepting that Greedy will likely be injury/retired due to that nerve sometime in 2021
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I'm slowly accepting that Greedy will likely be injury/retired due to that nerve sometime in 2021
I'm slowly accepting that Greedy will likely be injury/retired due to that nerve sometime in 2021
Welcome aboard. But good news, a DB room of Ward, Mitch, Vincent, Delpit, Harrison and another TBD safety doesn't sound too shabby.
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I'm slowly accepting that Greedy will likely be injury/retired due to that nerve sometime in 2021
Welcome aboard. But good news, a DB room of Ward, Mitch, Vincent, Delpit, Harrison and another TBD safety doesn't sound too shabby.
Welcome aboard. But good news, a DB room of Ward, Mitch, Vincent, Delpit, Harrison and another TBD safety doesn't sound too shabby.
Ok, I'm completely blanking I guess... Vincent?
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It's a specialty role with an admittedly growing demand, but to spend a 1st on one simply does not make sense to this Old School baller...
There are exceptions. As I had mentioned before - Harrison Smith. And in a defense such as Woods who I know would love to get back to some of those C3 looks along with our newly found quarters calls, that would be a great luxury to have.
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Ok, I'm completely blanking I guess... Vincent?
My mid-round DB sleeper for the draft.
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If you win, Gipper finally has to pay you the $100 he owes you. ?
Maybe he can hire you to represent him here in Ohio. Have him give you a Power of Attorney.
I would be glad to take that into court against you.
Of course, we would have to go under the English rules: loser pays the opponents attorney fees.
Any court you want: Wadsworth Muni, where I live. Massillon where you are. Or Barberton in between.
Or...would you prefer the Doylestown Mayor's Court. (too bad, no jurisdiction).
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Yeah, I'm very intrigued by the idea of Carlos Basham, DE from Wake Forest.
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I'm enjoying watching with popcorn the myth of sociopath Jack Easterby come crashing down to earth. He spent his entire life having no skills and faking relationships.
Maneuvered his way over to the Texans
And if you haven't read the SI article from December about his time to date at Texans.. It's also a good read.
Many at least initially talk about how positive their relationship is with him.. yet if it was so positive, why did he keep burning them? Maybe it [gasp] was not genuine in both directions!
I enjoy seeing fake people get unmasked. Whether or not he actually loses power, of course, is now on Texans owner.. but Easterby is just a machiavellian idiot.
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I'm enjoying watching with popcorn the myth of sociopath Jack Easterby come crashing down to earth. He spent his entire life having no skills and faking relationships.
Maneuvered his way over to the Texans
And if you haven't read the SI article from December about his time to date at Texans.. It's also a good read.
Many at least initially talk about how positive their relationship is with him.. yet if it was so positive, why did he keep burning them? Maybe it [gasp] was not genuine in both directions!
I enjoy seeing fake people get unmasked. Whether or not he actually loses power, of course, is now on Texans owner.. but Easterby is just a machiavellian idiot.
I'm enjoying watching with popcorn the myth of sociopath Jack Easterby come crashing down to earth. He spent his entire life having no skills and faking relationships.
Maneuvered his way over to the Texans
And if you haven't read the SI article from December about his time to date at Texans.. It's also a good read.
Many talk about how positive their relationship is with him.. yet if it was so positive, why did he keep burning them? Maybe it [gasp] was not genuine in both directions!
I enjoy seeing fake people get unmasked. Whether or not he actually loses power, of course, is now on Texans owner.. but Easterby is just a machiavellian idiot.
"I was raised to be charming, not sincere".
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Yeah, I'm very intrigued by the idea of Carlos Basham, DE from Wake Forest.
Yeah, I'm very intrigued by the idea of Carlos Basham, DE from Wake Forest.
Like him, but that's not a great Highlight reel. The editor was going for splash plays, but ends up with a collection of coverage sacks and QB flushes into his waiting arms.
Should sprinkle in more of his run D which is his real strength. Then you realize what pressure he can generate with his pass rush is a bonus. However, you just don't see him posting clean beats of OTs because he just doesn't have that burst and bend to threaten OTs wide.
Bull rushes and really good hands? That's his game.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Yeah, I'm very intrigued by the idea of Carlos Basham, DE from Wake Forest.
Like him, but that's not a great Highlight reel. The editor was going for splash plays, but ends up with a collection of coverage sacks and QB flushes into his waiting arms.
Should sprinkle in more of his run D which is his real strength. Then you realize what pressure he can generate with his pass rush is a bonus. However, you just don't see him posting clean beats of OTs because he just doesn't have that burst and bend to threaten OTs wide.
Bull rushes and really good hands? That's his game.
Like him, but that's not a great Highlight reel. The editor was going for splash plays, but ends up with a collection of coverage sacks and QB flushes into his waiting arms.
Should sprinkle in more of his run D which is his real strength. Then you realize what pressure he can generate with his pass rush is a bonus. However, you just don't see him posting clean beats of OTs because he just doesn't have that burst and bend to threaten OTs wide.
Bull rushes and really good hands? That's his game.
Seems like a guy who would be a good complement to Myles.
Almost similar to a Bradley Chubb? A big, physical DE who might not be a super athlete pass rusher, but can get there through strength and determination. Also, good vs the run.
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Jaylen Twyman DT Pitt. He sat out this year but he really stood out in some of the Pitt games I watched in 2019.
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Like him, but that's not a great Highlight reel. The editor was going for splash plays, but ends up with a collection of coverage sacks and QB flushes into his waiting arms.
Should sprinkle in more of his run D which is his real strength. Then you realize what pressure he can generate with his pass rush is a bonus. However, you just don't see him posting clean beats of OTs because he just doesn't have that burst and bend to threaten OTs wide.
Bull rushes and really good hands? That's his game.
Seems like a guy who would be a good complement to Myles.
Almost similar to a Bradley Chubb? A big, physical DE who might not be a super athlete pass rusher, but can get there through strength and determination. Also, good vs the run.
Seems like a guy who would be a good complement to Myles.
Almost similar to a Bradley Chubb? A big, physical DE who might not be a super athlete pass rusher, but can get there through strength and determination. Also, good vs the run.
Yeah... kinda in that vein, but IIRC Bradley had more burst coming into the league. Not sure that's true now after his 2019 injury.
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They are only stats.. but, Closer than I had thought..
Tackles Def Int Fumbles Year School Conf Class Pos G Solo Ast Tot Loss Sk Int Yds Avg TD PD FR Yds TD FF Career North Carolina State 100 98 198 54.5 25.0 1 0 0.0 0 4 1 6 *2014 North Carolina State ACC FR DE 2 2 2 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 *2015 North Carolina State ACC SO DE 13 27 39 66 10.5 5.0 1 0 0.0 0 1 0 2 *2016 North Carolina State ACC JR DE 13 32 24 56 21.0 10.0 0 0 0 1 1 3 *2017 North Carolina State ACC SR DE 12 39 33 72 23.0 10.0 0 0 0 2 0 1 NC State---DE-Bradley Chubb in 40 games played.. a 2018 draft pick #5 ^^ (combine 6'4' 275)
Tackles Def Int Fumbles Year School Conf Class Pos G Solo Ast Tot Loss Sk Int Yds Avg TD PD FR Yds TD FF Career Wake Forest 97 76 173 35.5 19.5 0 0 0 8 3 1 7 *2017 Wake Forest ACC FR DL 11 15 9 24 2.0 0.0 0 0 0 3 1 0 *2018 Wake Forest ACC SO DL 12 36 28 64 11.0 4.5 0 0 0 1 2 1 0 *2019 Wake Forest ACC JR DL 13 26 31 57 18.0 10.0 0 0 0 3 0 3 *2020 Wake Forest ACC SR DL 6 20 8 28 4.5 5.0 0 0 0 1 0 4 Wake Forest--DE-Carlos Basham Jr. played in 42 games ^^
Tackles Def Int Fumbles Year School Conf Class Pos G Solo Ast Tot Loss Sk Int Yds Avg TD PD FR Yds TD FF Career Pitt 67 45 112 32.0 21.5 0 0 0 4 1 5 2017 Pitt ACC FR DL 5 3 4 7 1.0 0.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 *2018 Pitt ACC SO DL 13 15 7 22 7.0 3.5 0 0 0 0 0 1 *2019 Pitt ACC JR DL 11 25 16 41 11.5 8.5 0 0 0 1 0 4 2020 Pitt ACC SR DL 11 24 18 42 12.5 9.0 0 0 0 3 1 0 Pitt--DE-Patrick Jones II played in 40 games ^^^
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They are only stats.. but, Closer than I had thought..
Tackles Def Int Fumbles Year School Conf Class Pos G Solo Ast Tot Loss Sk Int Yds Avg TD PD FR Yds TD FF Career North Carolina State 100 98 198 54.5 25.0 1 0 0.0 0 4 1 6 *2014 North Carolina State ACC FR DE 2 2 2 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 *2015 North Carolina State ACC SO DE 13 27 39 66 10.5 5.0 1 0 0.0 0 1 0 2 *2016 North Carolina State ACC JR DE 13 32 24 56 21.0 10.0 0 0 0 1 1 3 *2017 North Carolina State ACC SR DE 12 39 33 72 23.0 10.0 0 0 0 2 0 1 NC State---DE-Bradley Chubb in 40 games played.. a 2018 draft pick #5 ^^ (combine 6'4' 275)
Tackles Def Int Fumbles Year School Conf Class Pos G Solo Ast Tot Loss Sk Int Yds Avg TD PD FR Yds TD FF Career Wake Forest 97 76 173 35.5 19.5 0 0 0 8 3 1 7 *2017 Wake Forest ACC FR DL 11 15 9 24 2.0 0.0 0 0 0 3 1 0 *2018 Wake Forest ACC SO DL 12 36 28 64 11.0 4.5 0 0 0 1 2 1 0 *2019 Wake Forest ACC JR DL 13 26 31 57 18.0 10.0 0 0 0 3 0 3 *2020 Wake Forest ACC SR DL 6 20 8 28 4.5 5.0 0 0 0 1 0 4 Wake Forest--DE-Carlos Basham Jr. played in 42 games ^^
Tackles Def Int Fumbles Year School Conf Class Pos G Solo Ast Tot Loss Sk Int Yds Avg TD PD FR Yds TD FF Career Pitt 67 45 112 32.0 21.5 0 0 0 4 1 5 2017 Pitt ACC FR DL 5 3 4 7 1.0 0.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 *2018 Pitt ACC SO DL 13 15 7 22 7.0 3.5 0 0 0 0 0 1 *2019 Pitt ACC JR DL 11 25 16 41 11.5 8.5 0 0 0 1 0 4 2020 Pitt ACC SR DL 11 24 18 42 12.5 9.0 0 0 0 3 1 0 Pitt--DE-Patrick Jones II played in 40 games ^^^
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I have a bit of write-up incoming tonight. But before I do that, I felt this was as good a thread as any.
I've started a 'TBB' discord. Honestly, I feel at times it might be easier than The Tavern. Except it can be purposed for things when the Browns themselves aren't playing. It can be used to share thoughts on prospects, coaches, gameplans, whatever film review you might do... with the "share screen" function, the review can be done in group so ideas on what players we're watching can be shared live in group.
This is the link, I'm listed as the Admin and I do have a couple names in mind on mods should they wish to have the role. Like anything else, there will be a couple small rules to observe, but that's about it. With my new desktop built and command center done (thanks to a dear friend) might as well put it to good use. I'll be in there starting tonight should anyone want to check out how I, or anyone else, watches their tape. I'm sure I'll be in there as well at times throughout the off-season leading up to the draft on any prospects I may watch.
More on Kary Vincent to follow.
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Kary Vincent Jr v UCF
It's a full game and I've taken the liberty of time stamping plays throughout. Keep in mind, as far as football goes it was "boring" game for Kary. Really what I found though was more reps on technique, if anything.
6:20 Smooth like jazz. The feet are light, the hips fluid and the movement is patient.
6:41 Hips a little too open and weight distribution asking to be beaten back inside. Just knows it's a poor release in man against a run heavy team.
8:38 Would like to see his upfield arm make contact on the left shoulder, but another patient display and doesn't open up until the receiver commits to running to the outside shoulder.
35:35 Square and stays half body upfield. Makes contact with backfield arm when seeing receiver not pressing hard up field.
Good base, plays low and never loses balance. It's like watching a tiger get and stay low until they pounce. I don't really have a better comparison, but I'm positive his vertical, shuttle, 3 cone and broad jump will all be good at the pro day (should LSU run those)36:00 Mirrors the release well without allowing too much cushion between himself and the receiver at and past snap. This is textbook playing "on ball" without using your hands at the snap. A natural tactician who understands when to make his contact given his "limited" size. And zero fear of being beaten vertically because of the trust in his athletic ability. Professional make up speed. Can't stress this enough, there are many corners who don't trust their own athletic ability and generally panic early afraid of the deep shot.
37:44 I wanted to use this rep to just show how fluid this kid is in his movement. It's like watching a dancer. His hips and feet move so well laterally,
but most important he can turn and run with the best of the corners I've watched the past few seasons. Kary doesn't overcommit to the inside move,
doesn't land his initial strike, but when he turns to run he doesn't bail so hard that he's high hip on the reciever. Stays even because it's going to
be very difficult to out-accelerate a runner of this quality unless you beat him physically up at the line. He really tosses a blanket on the UCF
receiver all the way down the field. By my count, UCF hasn't thrown at him once yet. The Knights routinely targeted 6'3 195lb Mannie Netherly.
6'3 195 is NFL size, but when you're getting your ass beat, that 6'3 doesn't account for much now, does it?
46:50 Does the word 'Island' mean anything to you? LSU coaches had little fear of putting him out against insanely wide splits with little to no safety help. Yes, I also acknowledge UCF's passing game isn't great. Still, he's a young DB and it doesn't take much contact to lose a battle outside at 5'10, 190lbs unless you are just that good.105:21 Falls off in man reading QB eyes. Just a ball player anticipating a bad throw and getting underneath. Eyes like that are a foreshadow to quality play in spot and pattern matching zones.
114:04 I wish I had sky-kam all 22 for every team, it would make shit so much easier. Isn't often I toss around the word "natural". But Kary is a natural DB... corner. He just back-peddles so well on the perimeter. Weight distribution is even, he doesn't ever seem "over" or "behind" in his stance and again, so very smart with his contact. He knows he can't win right at the line when a receiver has the arm length on him. So the closed distanced at the snap, patient mirror on the release and when the receiver turns upfield is when the contact comes. Most people won't notice that, but it's very smart play that helps limit his length disadvantage at the snap. Though he was just a bit too overzealous on this particular rep.
Yes, LSU felt it best to put Kary on the perimeter this game. Why? I suspect a couple reasons. The biggest of those being that UCF loves having their receivers in incredibly wide splits to space out DB's and LB's to help their running game. A lot more room to work with when you have the extra bodies out of the box and away from running lanes. Another reason - necessity. This was the game Greedy sat out and other DB's were lost with ejection or injury. Finally - as I said earlier, space. Passing is easier back to the plus side of the field when your split is so wide you have room to run. With said space, it also invites DB's to take away the inside as much as possible giving you a counter shot back outside and vertical should they get to happy in their position. Kary was playing "inside eye" technique almost all game because of this. And he didn't look out of place at all despite not being thrown at.
I know @texasag1969 said he would take Shaun Wade in the 2nd over in Cal's thread, but I couldn't begin to disagree more. Even if Shaun shows out well at his pro-day, his mental lapses this past year, effort and his physical prowess were not in the least impressive. His footspeed was also not good, alluding to some mentioning him more as a safety. So I'll ask then - why would I take a CB in the 2nd and then see what he can do with his limited reps at safety when I can take Kary, who will have better numbers in the agility and speed drills with more tape on him playing back on a hash and zone replacement. But with a smaller draft capital investment such as the 4th-5th round? (Possibly higher given what I'm watching) Because KV is 5'10 190 and SW is 6'1 195? This is an outdated way of thinking and while yes, measurables do matter, they aren't the end-all in qualifying NFL potential. Would you rather have had the Browns take Delpit or Winfield this past season? Sure, the injury now being a hindsight thing. But once we got past Antoine being 5'9, Tampa found themselves a hell of a player.
I'd also like to speak to labels. I see this with NFL media personalities and even decent reviewers who toss around things that are often far too vague or general in terminology. Almost as though they forget to consider the personnel matchup heavy nature that is the NFL. In Kary's example, you're going to hear the word "slot" used A LOT... if you already haven't been beaten to death with it. But I think it's a lazy piece of scouting meant to diminish his abilities. And I'll give you my reasons....
- Tyreek Hill
- Hollywood Brown
- TY HIlton
- Brandin Cooks
- Jamison Crowder
- Diontae Johnson
- John Brown
- Henry RuggsThese are all speed merchant receivers for AFC teams. With the exception of Cooks and Crowder, they're all receivers for AFC contenders and playoff teams. You see, I'm not going to draft a Kary Vincent and park his ass over a #2 or #3 and tell him to do work regardless of who he lines up against. That's shit just sounds stupid. If he draws a TE or a bigger receiver all I've done is not play to his best ability. And all of the receivers I've listed above are game breakers for their teams who line up all over the formation despite the fact that the tallest of that list is Henry Ruggs at 5'11. Each one of them are questions I need an answer too as a coach. So when I see a corner, with track speed, smooth feet but might be considered slightly undersized at 5'10 being devalued with "SLOT CORNER!!" label (in a passing league, I might add) I ask myself 'So what?'. That's an antiquated way of scouting. I play my game around matching up personnel, where they align on the field is just a product of the former. I can see that Kary's feet and kinetic awareness/ability are equally as good outside as they are inside. Sure, generally you put your size to the perimeter ala receivers such as Tee Higgins, DK Metcalf, Mike Evans, D-Hop, Devante Parker, etc etc. Those are thought of as your traditional 'X' receivers. But those are not the receivers I'm drafting this particular role player for. The Browns want to go to the SuperBowl? Dealing with Kansas City and Tyreek Hill is at the top of my list. They are the gatekeepers, the current mountain CLE will have to conquer for a SuperBowl appearance. And Hill as we saw running at the #3 in trips was a real issue for our secondary. Because the 2 big routes he hits you with are that deep over and then that sprint out that iced the game as the counter. So sure, you won't be trying to lock down Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, Julio and other tall receivers. You might not get the recognition of a Jalen Ramsey, but he got burned by Tyreek a couple times, didn't he? The NFL still loves their warp speed, they still love the WR's who can walk by DB's. So more than anything what I want, what I need, is a 4.3 corner who I know has confidence in himself denying speed and deep shots with his own athletic ability.
It's a classic fire v fire scenario. A speed arms race, so to speak. Right now KC has the market cornered with their own legion of zoom. The Browns need to add their own speed and athletic weapons on defense if they hope to limit the wave of quickness all over the conference. In my football heart of hearts, I believe I've found a DB who (so far) appears to help me answer those personnel questions.
.... As for the Browns speed on offense? A topic for another time.
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"I know @texasag1969 said he would take Shaun Wade in the 2nd over in Cal's thread, but I couldn't begin to disagree more."
What? You'd take an SEC player over an O$U player tia? That there is a hangin' offense round these parts pardner.?
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"I know @texasag1969 said he would take Shaun Wade in the 2nd over in Cal's thread, but I couldn't begin to disagree more."
What? You'd take an SEC player over an O$U player tia? That there is a hangin' offense round these parts pardner.?
"I know @texasag1969 said he would take Shaun Wade in the 2nd over in Cal's thread, but I couldn't begin to disagree more."
What? You'd take an SEC player over an O$U player tia? That there is a hangin' offense round these parts pardner.?
Read this in a Yosemite Sam voice.
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