JJ Watt to Cardinals
-
Resign Vernon, Acquire JJ and there you have a nice rotation at RE. Our pass rush was non existent without Vernon and JJ is still far better than anything we have behind Vernon.
Resign Vernon, Acquire JJ and there you have a nice rotation at RE. Our pass rush was non existent without Vernon and JJ is still far better than anything we have behind Vernon.
This won't happen.
JJ has one season left - is it possible to sign him using all of our rollover cap? Yes!
And then once 2022 comes around.. we have zero cap space of any sort, Chubb and Ward's rookie contracts are up, and we get nothing for JJ leaving because he's no longer under contract.
Current salary already committed for 2021: 196M. Cap for 2020 was 198M. That difference [198-196, aka 2] is our true [long-term] cap space.
The reason it won't happen is that we need that rollover cap to keep getting rolled over so we can re-sign Chubb, Ward, and Baker to deals that allow us to continue to keep good players around them for many years not just one. As we have seen, Ward can't be the only non-replacement-level DB.
If we hadn't signed Kenny Britt and TJ Carrie, we'd have at least 25M more to roll over..
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Read an article that says Kwon Alexander might be a cap casualty, if I had my choice I'll take a 26 year old LB over a 32 year old DE.
-
Read an article that says Kwon Alexander might be a cap casualty, if I had my choice I'll take a 26 year old LB over a 32 year old DE.
if I had my choice
You don't.
We have exactly 2 million in non-rollover cap space.. and that's assuming the cap does not decrease from 2020.
It makes for a much less entertaining thread, but the entire concept that the Browns "Have Cap Space" is at best misinformation - aka clickbait.
-
So if the Browns are already tapped out with the cap, how are they going to sign Baker, Ward, Chubb, Teller et al to extensions?
I mean Jesus, imagine how fucked they'd be with the cap if they actually could have drafted worth a shit prior to 2018?
-
Fact that hasn't been included anywhere in this thread : Baker's 2022 salary will be somewhere between 18-20. Mayfield's 2020 salary? 0.75
Why haven't we extended Mayfield yet? Goff and Wentz are both a hot mess but were extended after yr3.. Goff didn't even start LAR playoff game this year.
-
if I had my choice
You don't.
We have exactly 2 million in non-rollover cap space.. and that's assuming the cap does not decrease from 2020.
It makes for a much less entertaining thread, but the entire concept that the Browns "Have Cap Space" is at best misinformation - aka clickbait.
You don't.
We have exactly 2 million in non-rollover cap space.. and that's assuming the cap does not decrease from 2020.
It makes for a much less entertaining thread, but the entire concept that the Browns "Have Cap Space" is at best misinformation - aka clickbait.
The Cap limit hasn’t been set yet...so there’s that.
And it’s been alleged by a Cap guru that we have a decent amount of carryover cap. That can be used preferably in the 1 yr. signing type variety...shouldn’t be hard given the constraints other teams will have as well.
-
You don't.
We have exactly 2 million in non-rollover cap space.. and that's assuming the cap does not decrease from 2020.
It makes for a much less entertaining thread, but the entire concept that the Browns "Have Cap Space" is at best misinformation - aka clickbait.
The Cap limit hasn’t been set yet...so there’s that.
And it’s been alleged by a Cap guru that we have a decent amount of carryover cap. That can be used preferably in the 1 yr. signing type variety...shouldn’t be hard given the constraints other teams will have as well.
And for the 42106th time, we have Chubb and Ward and Baker all on rookie deals needing to be resigned. 2021 season salaries are 2M under the 2020 cap. The rollover 1yr cap is no more than 18M.. you may recognize this as Baker's expected 5th year (2022) salary.
To be clear: When their salaries rise and no rollover cap exists to take up that rise .... other positions become less skilled.
And it’s been alleged by a Cap guru
Did you look in a mirror and flex while typing that?
It's OK though - don't bother posting links or being clear about the dollars you're asserting. Vague nonspecificity clickbait trolling does add confusion, though!
-
And for the 42106th time, we have Chubb and Ward and Baker all on rookie deals needing to be resigned. 2021 season salaries are 2M under the 2020 cap. The rollover 1yr cap is no more than 18M.. you may recognize this as Baker's expected 5th year (2022) salary.
To be clear: When their salaries rise and no rollover cap exists to take up that rise .... other positions become less skilled.
And it’s been alleged by a Cap guru
Did you look in a mirror and flex while typing that?
It's OK though - don't bother posting links or being clear about the dollars you're asserting. Vague nonspecificity clickbait trolling does add confusion, though!
And for the 42106th time, we have Chubb and Ward and Baker all on rookie deals needing to be resigned. 2021 season salaries are 2M under the 2020 cap. The rollover 1yr cap is no more than 18M.. you may recognize this as Baker's expected 5th year (2022) salary.
To be clear: When their salaries rise and no rollover cap exists to take up that rise .... other positions become less skilled.
Did you look in a mirror and flex while typing that?
It's OK though - don't bother posting links or being clear about the dollars you're asserting. Vague nonspecificity clickbait trolling does add confusion, though!
Flex in mirror - wow. Relax Karen.Wait are Chubb Ward and Baker deals counting heavily on 2021 Cap? We haven’t extended them. We will likely extend at least 2 of 3 maybe all three and the extension will hit the team hard perhaps in 2022 and 2023. We can even get creative with how the deals impact the cap moving forward - I’m sure you know that.
Im not a cap expert. I cited someone yesterday. Quoted on team cites all the the NFL, Forbes etc. I’m sure if he’s off 100k you will tell me.
not being a jerk but can you tell us the following:
Again has the 2021 cap been set?Can you calculate how much rollover cap we have?
Can you tell us if we can use the rollover cap next season?
Do we know Baker’s Chubb’s and Ward’s salary for next year?
-
And for the 42106th time, we have Chubb and Ward and Baker all on rookie deals needing to be resigned. 2021 season salaries are 2M under the 2020 cap. The rollover 1yr cap is no more than 18M.. you may recognize this as Baker's expected 5th year (2022) salary.
To be clear: When their salaries rise and no rollover cap exists to take up that rise .... other positions become less skilled.
Did you look in a mirror and flex while typing that?
It's OK though - don't bother posting links or being clear about the dollars you're asserting. Vague nonspecificity clickbait trolling does add confusion, though!
Flex in mirror - wow. Relax Karen.Wait are Chubb Ward and Baker deals counting heavily on 2021 Cap? We haven’t extended them. We will likely extend at least 2 of 3 maybe all three and the extension will hit the team hard perhaps in 2022 and 2023. We can even get creative with how the deals impact the cap moving forward - I’m sure you know that.
Im not a cap expert. I cited someone yesterday. Quoted on team cites all the the NFL, Forbes etc. I’m sure if he’s off 100k you will tell me.
not being a jerk but can you tell us the following:
Again has the 2021 cap been set?Can you calculate how much rollover cap we have?
Can you tell us if we can use the rollover cap next season?
Do we know Baker’s Chubb’s and Ward’s salary for next year?
And I responded to your fake guru yesterday. Now that we're done insulting each other, let's get back to ignoring people who don't actually pay attention to Cleveland.
are Chubb Ward and Baker deals counting heavily on 2021 Cap
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
Again has the 2021 cap been set?
No, and the floor is 175.. more of a drop than our rollover cap can take up.
Can you calculate how much rollover cap we have?
18.0M at present -- what OTC shows. Yes, we had 30 in the last month of the season.. and the one deal done since then was Garrett's. Hard to know all the puts and takes from an accounting perspective because that's the detail in each contract - both current and future [due to when bonuses hit]. So it's a bit opaque - you can't track 100% correctly unless you know every detail. This also means other articles are guesswork -- that's why "Browns Rollover Numbers" are different in different sources.
Can't know if "Browns rollover" is 38M or OTC is taking that 38M down to 18 because it's assuming the salary cap is 20M less than the 2020 level.. they're not clear on their formulas, perhaps deliberately so someone would pay to have more info.
During the season we know the salaries and players on roster so it's easy to see what's "this year's space" [cap - total unused for current year, all the rest is rollover] but future yrs are always obscure.
Can you tell us if we can use the rollover cap next season?
Yes, but it's only one year. So if you extended JJ watt's 17.5M deal.. in 2021 we'd be fine but come 2022 we'd be 17.5M over the cap before resigning those 3.
2021 total salary costs are not far enough below the 2020 salary cap to sign all our draft picks.. and people are talking about signing top free agents? Dude.. the talk has been about decreasing the cap, not increasing it.. in which case someone would have to get cut just to sign those draft picks.
And Hubbard may get cut to sign our draft picks. But FYI.. the talk should be about cutting guys, we're nowhere near having massive space.
The point of saving rollover cap for resigning contracts is to use that rollover cap for signing bonuses for any player(s).. thus decreasing their cap hit for the future years of contracts.
Do we know Baker’s Chubb’s and Ward’s salary for next year?
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
-
Is this a joke too?
I’m struggling right now
Was reading a article, where they were talking about some players being cap casualties or just being let go. Alexander was mentioned due to the fact that Davis and Baun were coming back and there. I'll see if I can find it again. So take it for what it's worth.
-
regarding J. J. Watt - I'd say no. Not just the cap - but the draft choices it would take would hurt the Browns down the road.
and after only one year, ??? He could retire, live well, and the Browns end up on the short end of the stick, and the Texans would
be ready to roll, more cap space, a bunch of valuable draft picks...
nope. Berry won't play that game. Thank goodness Dorsey is gone..........
-
if I had my choice
You don't.
We have exactly 2 million in non-rollover cap space.. and that's assuming the cap does not decrease from 2020.
It makes for a much less entertaining thread, but the entire concept that the Browns "Have Cap Space" is at best misinformation - aka clickbait.
You don't.
We have exactly 2 million in non-rollover cap space.. and that's assuming the cap does not decrease from 2020.
It makes for a much less entertaining thread, but the entire concept that the Browns "Have Cap Space" is at best misinformation - aka clickbait.
Well he is coming off a Achilles injury, and has a injury history, 1 year prove it deal. Just like all the other prove it deals.
-
And I responded to your fake guru yesterday. Now that we're done insulting each other, let's get back to ignoring people who don't actually pay attention to Cleveland.
are Chubb Ward and Baker deals counting heavily on 2021 Cap
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
Again has the 2021 cap been set?
No, and the floor is 175.. more of a drop than our rollover cap can take up.
Can you calculate how much rollover cap we have?
18.0M at present -- what OTC shows. Yes, we had 30 in the last month of the season.. and the one deal done since then was Garrett's. Hard to know all the puts and takes from an accounting perspective because that's the detail in each contract - both current and future [due to when bonuses hit]. So it's a bit opaque - you can't track 100% correctly unless you know every detail. This also means other articles are guesswork -- that's why "Browns Rollover Numbers" are different in different sources.
Can't know if "Browns rollover" is 38M or OTC is taking that 38M down to 18 because it's assuming the salary cap is 20M less than the 2020 level.. they're not clear on their formulas, perhaps deliberately so someone would pay to have more info.
During the season we know the salaries and players on roster so it's easy to see what's "this year's space" [cap - total unused for current year, all the rest is rollover] but future yrs are always obscure.
Can you tell us if we can use the rollover cap next season?
Yes, but it's only one year. So if you extended JJ watt's 17.5M deal.. in 2021 we'd be fine but come 2022 we'd be 17.5M over the cap before resigning those 3.
2021 total salary costs are not far enough below the 2020 salary cap to sign all our draft picks.. and people are talking about signing top free agents? Dude.. the talk has been about decreasing the cap, not increasing it.. in which case someone would have to get cut just to sign those draft picks.
And Hubbard may get cut to sign our draft picks. But FYI.. the talk should be about cutting guys, we're nowhere near having massive space.
The point of saving rollover cap for resigning contracts is to use that rollover cap for signing bonuses for any player(s).. thus decreasing their cap hit for the future years of contracts.
Do we know Baker’s Chubb’s and Ward’s salary for next year?
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
And I responded to your fake guru yesterday. Now that we're done insulting each other, let's get back to ignoring people who don't actually pay attention to Cleveland.
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
No, and the floor is 175.. more of a drop than our rollover cap can take up.
18.0M at present -- what OTC shows. Yes, we had 30 in the last month of the season.. and the one deal done since then was Garrett's. Hard to know all the puts and takes from an accounting perspective because that's the detail in each contract - both current and future [due to when bonuses hit]. So it's a bit opaque - you can't track 100% correctly unless you know every detail. This also means other articles are guesswork -- that's why "Browns Rollover Numbers" are different in different sources.
Can't know if "Browns rollover" is 38M or OTC is taking that 38M down to 18 because it's assuming the salary cap is 20M less than the 2020 level.. they're not clear on their formulas, perhaps deliberately so someone would pay to have more info.
During the season we know the salaries and players on roster so it's easy to see what's "this year's space" [cap - total unused for current year, all the rest is rollover] but future yrs are always obscure.
Yes, but it's only one year. So if you extended JJ watt's 17.5M deal.. in 2021 we'd be fine but come 2022 we'd be 17.5M over the cap before resigning those 3.
2021 total salary costs are not far enough below the 2020 salary cap to sign all our draft picks.. and people are talking about signing top free agents? Dude.. the talk has been about decreasing the cap, not increasing it.. in which case someone would have to get cut just to sign those draft picks.
And Hubbard may get cut to sign our draft picks. But FYI.. the talk should be about cutting guys, we're nowhere near having massive space.
The point of saving rollover cap for resigning contracts is to use that rollover cap for signing bonuses for any player(s).. thus decreasing their cap hit for the future years of contracts.
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
I questioned you and you didn’t take to kindly to it and threw what appeared to be a tantrum. PSA it’s okay to be questioned.
Moving on...
I saw that Chubb Ward and Baker accounted for a little over 19M on the cap 2020.2021 by your calculations - 24M. So we are adding approximately 5M with their current contracts.
Also I don’t want JJ past 2021. I think the more likely scenario he’s traded to a team fulfills the last year of his contract and is a Free Agent in 2022 where he could join the other Watts in Pitt under a discount. I
-
And I responded to your fake guru yesterday. Now that we're done insulting each other, let's get back to ignoring people who don't actually pay attention to Cleveland.
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
No, and the floor is 175.. more of a drop than our rollover cap can take up.
18.0M at present -- what OTC shows. Yes, we had 30 in the last month of the season.. and the one deal done since then was Garrett's. Hard to know all the puts and takes from an accounting perspective because that's the detail in each contract - both current and future [due to when bonuses hit]. So it's a bit opaque - you can't track 100% correctly unless you know every detail. This also means other articles are guesswork -- that's why "Browns Rollover Numbers" are different in different sources.
Can't know if "Browns rollover" is 38M or OTC is taking that 38M down to 18 because it's assuming the salary cap is 20M less than the 2020 level.. they're not clear on their formulas, perhaps deliberately so someone would pay to have more info.
During the season we know the salaries and players on roster so it's easy to see what's "this year's space" [cap - total unused for current year, all the rest is rollover] but future yrs are always obscure.
Yes, but it's only one year. So if you extended JJ watt's 17.5M deal.. in 2021 we'd be fine but come 2022 we'd be 17.5M over the cap before resigning those 3.
2021 total salary costs are not far enough below the 2020 salary cap to sign all our draft picks.. and people are talking about signing top free agents? Dude.. the talk has been about decreasing the cap, not increasing it.. in which case someone would have to get cut just to sign those draft picks.
And Hubbard may get cut to sign our draft picks. But FYI.. the talk should be about cutting guys, we're nowhere near having massive space.
The point of saving rollover cap for resigning contracts is to use that rollover cap for signing bonuses for any player(s).. thus decreasing their cap hit for the future years of contracts.
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
I questioned you and you didn’t take to kindly to it and threw what appeared to be a tantrum. PSA it’s okay to be questioned.
Moving on...
I saw that Chubb Ward and Baker accounted for a little over 19M on the cap 2020.2021 by your calculations - 24M. So we are adding approximately 5M with their current contracts.
Also I don’t want JJ past 2021. I think the more likely scenario he’s traded to a team fulfills the last year of his contract and is a Free Agent in 2022 where he could join the other Watts in Pitt under a discount. I
I questioned you and you didn’t take to kindly to it and threw what appeared to be a tantrum. PSA it’s okay to be questioned
Same goes for you, asshole. You made 2 different posts of the same link in 12 minutes right after my post "just asking" if the info in your link was either a lie or fake news - BEFORE i tired of your shit. You called me a liar - and are then shocked that I respond? GTFO.
You calling me a liar on page 2 of this thread was you.. not taking kindly to me questioning you actually quite calmly.. and throwing a tantrum.
You are not special. You are going to be questioned whether you like or accept it or not.
You're well within your "rights" to continue believing whatever you want, of course! Whether or not it actually matches reality is a very different question.
-
And I responded to your fake guru yesterday. Now that we're done insulting each other, let's get back to ignoring people who don't actually pay attention to Cleveland.
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
No, and the floor is 175.. more of a drop than our rollover cap can take up.
18.0M at present -- what OTC shows. Yes, we had 30 in the last month of the season.. and the one deal done since then was Garrett's. Hard to know all the puts and takes from an accounting perspective because that's the detail in each contract - both current and future [due to when bonuses hit]. So it's a bit opaque - you can't track 100% correctly unless you know every detail. This also means other articles are guesswork -- that's why "Browns Rollover Numbers" are different in different sources.
Can't know if "Browns rollover" is 38M or OTC is taking that 38M down to 18 because it's assuming the salary cap is 20M less than the 2020 level.. they're not clear on their formulas, perhaps deliberately so someone would pay to have more info.
During the season we know the salaries and players on roster so it's easy to see what's "this year's space" [cap - total unused for current year, all the rest is rollover] but future yrs are always obscure.
Yes, but it's only one year. So if you extended JJ watt's 17.5M deal.. in 2021 we'd be fine but come 2022 we'd be 17.5M over the cap before resigning those 3.
2021 total salary costs are not far enough below the 2020 salary cap to sign all our draft picks.. and people are talking about signing top free agents? Dude.. the talk has been about decreasing the cap, not increasing it.. in which case someone would have to get cut just to sign those draft picks.
And Hubbard may get cut to sign our draft picks. But FYI.. the talk should be about cutting guys, we're nowhere near having massive space.
The point of saving rollover cap for resigning contracts is to use that rollover cap for signing bonuses for any player(s).. thus decreasing their cap hit for the future years of contracts.
Chubb 4.2, Ward 9.5, Baker 10.6
I questioned you and you didn’t take to kindly to it and threw what appeared to be a tantrum. PSA it’s okay to be questioned.
Moving on...
I saw that Chubb Ward and Baker accounted for a little over 19M on the cap 2020.2021 by your calculations - 24M. So we are adding approximately 5M with their current contracts.
Also I don’t want JJ past 2021. I think the more likely scenario he’s traded to a team fulfills the last year of his contract and is a Free Agent in 2022 where he could join the other Watts in Pitt under a discount. I
Also I don’t want JJ past 2021. I think the more likely scenario he’s traded to a team fulfills the last year of his contract and is a Free Agent in 2022 where he could join the other Watts in Pitt under a discount.
Only rationale that fits this approach... being willing to trade for a one-year, player rental... is if you think JJ is the last piece needed for a SB run.
He might be that for some team, maybe even a couple teams, but IMO not us...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Also I don’t want JJ past 2021. I think the more likely scenario he’s traded to a team fulfills the last year of his contract and is a Free Agent in 2022 where he could join the other Watts in Pitt under a discount.
Only rationale that fits this approach... being willing to trade for a one-year, player rental... is if you think JJ is the last piece needed for a SB run.
He might be that for some team, maybe even a couple teams, but IMO not us...
Only rationale that fits this approach... being willing to trade for a one-year, player rental... is if you think JJ is the last piece needed for a SB run.
He might be that for some team, maybe even a couple teams, but IMO not us...
Tampa Bay may answer that question for us.
Best I can figure, KC is the gate-keeper for the AFC. Want to play for a Superbowl? You have to go through them.
The Bucs have two good pass rushers. If they end up forcing Mahomes into playing uncharacteristically bad then the rest of the conference is going to take serious notice. Especially with Fischer being scratched against the Bills.
-
Also I don’t want JJ past 2021. I think the more likely scenario he’s traded to a team fulfills the last year of his contract and is a Free Agent in 2022 where he could join the other Watts in Pitt under a discount.
Only rationale that fits this approach... being willing to trade for a one-year, player rental... is if you think JJ is the last piece needed for a SB run.
He might be that for some team, maybe even a couple teams, but IMO not us...
Only rationale that fits this approach... being willing to trade for a one-year, player rental... is if you think JJ is the last piece needed for a SB run.
He might be that for some team, maybe even a couple teams, but IMO not us...
I think we have some work just to get back to where we were - and we did piss away a big opportunity.
Let’s use 8 picks add some athletes on defense and a weapon on offense. Use a 3rd or 4th on JJ and let’s see the Chiefs again.
We can be that team!!!
-
Almost forgot, actually did forget. We have this guy coming off IR for next season. We may already have Vernon's replacement.
-
Like most, I too, hope Curtis Weaver can contribute.. I've watched loads of his college film, including this ^^ from above....
Just something I saw? or maybe I'm just wrong? Spend about 5 minutes watching this Video^^
A) Than name one college tackle that Weaver played against that has had any success in the NFL?
B.) See any Tackles in this video that maybe worth drafting? (might be some of the worse)
1) Most reports say Dolphins made a mistake IR'ing this guy with no protection...2.) Maybe the Dolphins saw enough once he saw some real comp...?
stay tuned..We paid a 4th rounder.... I know I'll be interested...
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login