The 2021 Click-bait, Mock Draft Collection Thread
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I think each team, winners or losers look to both methods to improve: FA and draft.
But then, from what I understand from some of the self appointed draft experts on here is that most teams when evaluating "draftable" talent, put that talent into "groupings".
I suppose each team may use a different system, But lets say you have a set of a very few A+ graded players. Then a Group of A players. Then A- then B+ etc. etc. Maybe each "grade ranking" has 5-6 players in there....or more. And lets say it is your turn to draft, say at #26, and all that are left on your board are several B+ players...which your scouts have said are pretty equal in talent and therefore any one of them may be deemed a good choice. So, how do you choose between the 5-8 that are sitting there? Often, by need. If you have a tackle, a WR, a QB, and a DE and LB...and you really really need a LB, then you go with the LB and not the other position you are strong at. On the other hand, if when you select, You have one A grade guy, no A- guys and several B+ guys, then you look much more seriously at taking the A guy who is at a "non-need" position instead of the B+ guys.
And I read those "experts" saying all we should do is draft D players, or we have to get this or that.
And I read those "experts" saying all we should do is draft D players, or we have to get this or that.
And I am saying is that the philosophy outlined above says....IF you have a handful of players equally rated...then yes, take the Defensive player that you need over the running back or OT you don't need nearly as much. But don't necessarily reach for a LB who is a B- player when you have a number of B+ players to choose from.
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Mocks Digest
Seems Carlos Basham has overtaken Pattie Jones ll... ? I've watched these two hammers so long a can't pick one over the other.. and won't
I see a Top 3, in a deep WR class.. Might see some reaches that vary per Mocks above
Top CB class seems weak.. reaches there have not settled either.. (ya may want to get Money Mitch inked)
Top LB & DE, deep classes names have not changed.. stay tuned
Some bad NFL OL's may take a reach in round 1 too..
QB Trevor Lawrence kicks off Pro Days today... 10AM-Noon NFL Network?
Top CB class seems weak.. reaches there have not settled either.. (ya may want to get Money Mitch inked)
Overall, yes, I agree, but looks like a doughnut CB-class to me...
There are two to four 1st-round-worthy prospects, but then not a lot of value picks until Day 3 opens a flood of "developmental" players.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Here's the deal folks.
The better the team gets, the more moronic drafting for need becomes. We need to draft best players available. Losing teams draft for needs. Or maybe I should say that winning teams will become losing teams if they draft that way.
Winning teams address needs in free agency. The draft is the long term method to keep talent in the pipeline. This is a great year to draft a wide receiver. Short sighted people don't see a need for that. People who think a bit can see us still clinging to an old Jarvis Landry in a year or two.
This is a great year for interior O-line...again, how long before Bitonio and Treeter are gone for one reason or another?
Sure, if your desire is to cut off your left nut to maybe improve for a year or two, have at it. I will keep keep mine, thank-you. My desire is to maintain winning ways for a decade or more and not go back to sucking, and suck we will if we look to draft for needs.
From what I have read, edge rushers and lb are weak positions this year. The guys you can get in round 3 aren't much different than the guys slated for round 1. We have a DC and by league dictate, LB are on the way out in favor of players who can cover someone other than a slow fullback.
So when we start making picks, don't get all bent out of shape because you don't think the pick makes any sense.
It makes a ton of sense.
- From what I have read, edge rushers and lb are weak positions this year.
- The guys you can get in round 3 aren't much different than the guys slated for round 1.
- We have a DC and by league dictate, LB are on the way out in favor of players who can cover someone other than a slow fullback.
- They are not.
- They are.
- One LB position has been been "hybridized" in many base Defenses... in the name of coverage ability. The remaining two LB positions remain with speed evermore emphasized.
And stay away from both my nuts...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think each team, winners or losers look to both methods to improve: FA and draft.
But then, from what I understand from some of the self appointed draft experts on here is that most teams when evaluating "draftable" talent, put that talent into "groupings".
I suppose each team may use a different system, But lets say you have a set of a very few A+ graded players. Then a Group of A players. Then A- then B+ etc. etc. Maybe each "grade ranking" has 5-6 players in there....or more. And lets say it is your turn to draft, say at #26, and all that are left on your board are several B+ players...which your scouts have said are pretty equal in talent and therefore any one of them may be deemed a good choice. So, how do you choose between the 5-8 that are sitting there? Often, by need. If you have a tackle, a WR, a QB, and a DE and LB...and you really really need a LB, then you go with the LB and not the other position you are strong at. On the other hand, if when you select, You have one A grade guy, no A- guys and several B+ guys, then you look much more seriously at taking the A guy who is at a "non-need" position instead of the B+ guys.
And I read those "experts" saying all we should do is draft D players, or we have to get this or that.
And I read those "experts" saying all we should do is draft D players, or we have to get this or that.
Many do say the latter... incorrectly IMO.
Haven't seen any say the former. However, many do say the D-side is the side of greater need... that is inarguable. It's the extent to which you let that influence your draft that varies among "experts".
And be careful reading Gipper's summation of processes he does not understand.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think Money Mitch is one of our top priorities and I don’t think we will have to overspend. There is a LONG list of CB hitting free agency this year. We should be able to get a deal done with him.
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- From what I have read, edge rushers and lb are weak positions this year.
- The guys you can get in round 3 aren't much different than the guys slated for round 1.
- We have a DC and by league dictate, LB are on the way out in favor of players who can cover someone other than a slow fullback.
- They are not.
- They are.
- One LB position has been been "hybridized" in many base Defenses... in the name of coverage ability. The remaining two LB positions remain with speed evermore emphasized.
And stay away from both my nuts...
2. They are.
Thought @ballpeen might want a little data backup for my reply. Below is not the analysis I was remembering, but the search continues for that one. Until then...
Article does not break out Edge from DL, but here's the LB info.
Linebacker
- Of the 303 players drafted, 72 became starters for at least half their careers.
- Almost half of the linebackers drafted came in rounds 5-7 but only 5 total starters came from those rounds.
- If you select a linebacker in the first round, there is a relatively low bust rate. As a matter of fact, Linebackers have the second highest first round success rate behind only the offensive line. 70% of first round linebackers were starters for at least half of their careers.
- There isn't much drop off in the second round either, with a success rate of 55%.
- The third round isn't that bad at 34% but after that the drop is steep with the 4th round plummeting to 16%, the 5th round to 4%, 5% in the 6th and only 2% success in the 7th.
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And I read those "experts" saying all we should do is draft D players, or we have to get this or that.
Many do say the latter... incorrectly IMO.
Haven't seen any say the former. However, many do say the D-side is the side of greater need... that is inarguable. It's the extent to which you let that influence your draft that varies among "experts".
And be careful reading Gipper's summation of processes he does not understand.
Many do say the latter... incorrectly IMO.
Haven't seen any say the former. However, many do say the D-side is the side of greater need... that is inarguable. It's the extent to which you let that influence your draft that varies among "experts".
And be careful reading Gipper's summation of processes he does not understand.
KUNTHOLERY...and COWARDICE are Your ONLY expertises. And you didn't have to appoint yourself to that status because you are too ignorant and arrogant to recognize that in yourself. I did it for you. You're welcome.
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New "Round Up" article is out and as I mentioned in the Mock Sims thread, new names are appearing for us at #26.
Variety continues to be the flavor of the week when it comes to the predictions surrounding the Browns' first pick in the 2021 NFL Draft.
Such is life in the bottom part of the first round, where the possibilities are seemingly endless because of all that can happen in the 25 picks before Cleveland is on the clock.
A couple of new names — Michigan DE Kwity Paye and TCU S Trevon Moehrig — seem to be appearing more and more in the mock drafts we're perusing these days. Is it a sign of things to come? Or is it just a fishing expedition?
On to the mocks!
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I did a survey of players who have been mocked to the Browns. I looked at 30 mocks from a Mock Draft Database. It is amazing how many players had been selected. Here they are, in order of the number of mocks chose a particular player:
Zaven Collins LB 4 mocks chose him
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah LB 3
Trevon Moerhig-Woodard Safety 3
Eric Stokes CB 2
Jayson Oweh Edge 2
Azeez Ojulari Edge 2
Jaelen Phillips DL 2
Nick Bolton LB 2
Carlos Basham DL 1
Alijah Vera-Tucker OT 1
Christian Barmore DT 1
Ronnie Perkins Edge 1
Joseph Ossai Edge 1
Davion Nixon DL 1
Micah Parsons LB 1
Jaycee Horn CB 1
Levi Onwuzurike 1
Greg Newsome CB 1
Out of 30 picks.....18 different names. So, clearly no indication of which way the Browns go....except only 1 of the 30 choices was on offense.
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I did a survey of players who have been mocked to the Browns. I looked at 30 mocks from a Mock Draft Database. It is amazing how many players had been selected. Here they are, in order of the number of mocks chose a particular player:
Zaven Collins LB 4 mocks chose him
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah LB 3
Trevon Moerhig-Woodard Safety 3
Eric Stokes CB 2
Jayson Oweh Edge 2
Azeez Ojulari Edge 2
Jaelen Phillips DL 2
Nick Bolton LB 2
Carlos Basham DL 1
Alijah Vera-Tucker OT 1
Christian Barmore DT 1
Ronnie Perkins Edge 1
Joseph Ossai Edge 1
Davion Nixon DL 1
Micah Parsons LB 1
Jaycee Horn CB 1
Levi Onwuzurike 1
Greg Newsome CB 1
Out of 30 picks.....18 different names. So, clearly no indication of which way the Browns go....except only 1 of the 30 choices was on offense.
I did a survey of players who have been mocked to the Browns. I looked at 30 mocks from a Mock Draft Database. It is amazing how many players had been selected. Here they are, in order of the number of mocks chose a particular player:
Zaven Collins LB 4 mocks chose him One of my favorites
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah LB 3 One of my favorites
Trevon Moerhig-Woodard Safety 3 Don't see him falling this far....the Browns signed a safety, too.
Eric Stokes CB 2 Not strong enough, physical enough to face the run. Terrific coverage, not much of one to get an INT.
Jayson Oweh Edge 2 Very possible?
Azeez Ojulari Edge 2 Very possible?
Jaelen Phillips DL 2 Not keen on DL in the first round. Like his intensity, not consistent with playing the run.....
Nick Bolton LB 2 Not the coverage able LB the Browns need in my goofy opinion. Great run stuffing old school hitter though.
Carlos Basham DL 1 first round DL, not seein it.
Alijah Vera-Tucker OT 1 Interesting - but not seeing first round talent here at all.
Christian Barmore DT 1 I now question his tenacity at times, taking some plays off at times....not seeing it in the first round.
Ronnie Perkins Edge 1 Questions about testing positive for pot. Sounds like you know who from Michigan. nope
Joseph Ossai Edge 1 One serious possibility.... If he falls to the Browns - he could be the pick, I think. Has it all,.. explosion, instincts, never ending tenacity, great hands work, staunch run defender, plays off blocks really nice, leader on the field. Only problem - he isn't the most fluid when asked to drop back and cover as a SAM lb.
Davion Nixon DL 1 Mean short? machine. 6'3", 305 lbs of productive butt-kicker. The One DL i'd cheer for at #26.
Micah Parsons LB 1 NO. Character red flags would be the only reason he falls out of the top of the draft. Isn't a fit. NO
Jaycee Horn CB 1 Isn't going to be there, but if he was... tough to pass on him talent wise. But I'm not sold on his ability? to turn and run with elite wr's in the NFL.
Levi Onwuzurike 1 Shows flashes, but is inconsistent. A bit smaller than Nixon, not as productive/intense.... nah.
Greg Newsome CB 1 Would be a great pick.... in the second or third round. Minor injury trend, slight frame. Really talented.
I still think Collins will be gone. Owusu-Koramoah will be gone, but I love the player. I still think Jabril Cox would be a great pick. Nixon is a beast and would be also well worth the #26 pick.
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From https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/Cleveland-Browns-BrownsDailyMockDraftExperiment5-Day-57-32221-Back-In-The-Saddle-A-Shocking-Day-1-Fall-162815857/#162815857_10 using TDN's draft sim.
Plenty of video clips on each selection in the article.
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Kwity Paye, eh?
Is that like in "soft Kwity, warm Kwity, little ball of fur, sleepy Kwity, happy Kwity, purr purr purr" ?
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Kwity Paye, eh?
Is that like in "soft Kwity, warm Kwity, little ball of fur, sleepy Kwity, happy Kwity, purr purr purr" ?
Kwity Paye, eh?
Is that like in "soft Kwity, warm Kwity, little ball of fur, sleepy Kwity, happy Kwity, purr purr purr" ?
I think he will be "gone Kwitty Kwitty". Just don't see him falling far enough.
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I'd be good...
26 Kwity Paye EDGE, Michigan
59.Richie Grant FS/CB, UCF
89.Pete Werner LB, Ohio State
91.Marlon Tuipulotu IDL, USC
110. Demetric Felton WR, UCLA
132. Kary Vincent Jr. CB, LSU
169.Tyree Gillespie S, Missouri
211. Brenden Jaimes OT, Nebraska
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I'd be good...
26 Kwity Paye EDGE, Michigan
59.Richie Grant FS/CB, UCF
89.Pete Werner LB, Ohio State
91.Marlon Tuipulotu IDL, USC
110. Demetric Felton WR, UCLA
132. Kary Vincent Jr. CB, LSU
169.Tyree Gillespie S, Missouri
211. Brenden Jaimes OT, Nebraska
89.Pete Werner LB, Ohio State
91.Marlon Tuipulotu IDL, USC
Intriguing pair there... Werner as our SAM and Tui looks like a potential, DT steal in the 3rd.
Tui's trenchmate Tufele looks to be more NFL ready to be a 3-down IDL... has the higher floor... but Tui's upside value at a one-round discount is attractive.
Werner has not drawn a lot of attention... just doesn't seem to have the speed for the NFL... but the kid just makes plays.
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One trade mock
Current Pick:
Round 1 Pick 21
Team: Browns (received from IND)
Pick traded from Indianapolis Colts to Cleveland Browns. Details:
IND receives the following picks: Round 1 Pick 26 (26) (CLE), Round 3 Pick 25 (89) (CLE), Round 6 Pick 26 (209) (CLE)
CLE receives the following picks: Round 1 Pick 21 (21) (IND)
Cleveland Browns are on the clock.Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 21 (IND): Kwity Paye, DE/OLB, Michigan (A)
Round 2 Pick 27: Asante Samuel Jr, CB, Florida State (A)
Round 3 Pick 27: Alim McNeill, DT, North Carolina State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 5: Baron Browning, ILB/OLB, Ohio State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 27: Elijah Moore, WR, Mississippi (A+)
Round 5 Pick 25: Ben Cleveland, OG, Georgia (A+)
Round 7 Pick 29: Jamien Sherwood, FS/SS, Auburn (A+)
Your Future Picks:
2022 Round 1 Pick
2023 Round 1 Pick -
From https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/Cleveland-Browns-BrownsDailyMockDraftExperiment5-Day-57-32221-Back-In-The-Saddle-A-Shocking-Day-1-Fall-162815857/#162815857_10 using TDN's draft sim.
Plenty of video clips on each selection in the article.
From https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/Cleveland-Browns-BrownsDailyMockDraftExperiment5-Day-57-32221-Back-In-The-Saddle-A-Shocking-Day-1-Fall-162815857/#162815857_10 using TDN's draft sim.
Plenty of video clips on each selection in the article.
hahaha mines almost identical !
These were the guys who went after me I could have selected after the trade up
Round 1 Pick 22 (22) Titans: Rondale Moore (WR) Purdue
Round 1 Pick 23 (23) Jets: Christian Darrisaw (OT) Virginia Tech
Round 1 Pick 24 (24) Steelers: Trevon Moehrig (FS/SS) TCU
Round 1 Pick 25 (25) (JAX) Falcons: Carlos Basham (DE/OLB) Wake Forest
Round 1 Pick 26 (26) (CLE) Colts: Rashod Bateman (WR) Minnesota
Round 1 Pick 27 (27) Ravens: Terrace Marshall (WR) LSU
Round 1 Pick 28 (28) Saints: Tyson Campbell (CB) Georgia
Round 1 Pick 29 (29) Packers: Kadarius Toney (WR) Florida
Round 1 Pick 30 (30) (BUF) Bears: Kyle Pitts (TE) Florida
Round 1 Pick 31 (31) Chiefs: Jaelan Phillips (DE/OLB) Miami (FL)
Round 1 Pick 32 (32) Buccaneers: Jaycee Horn (CB) South Carolina
Round 2 Pick 1 (33) Jaguars: Travis Etienne (RB) Clemson
Round 2 Pick 2 (34) Jets: Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (ILB/OLB) Notre Dame
Round 2 Pick 3 (35) (ATL) Jaguars: Samuel Cosmi (OT) Texas
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One trade mock
Current Pick:
Round 1 Pick 21
Team: Browns (received from IND)
Pick traded from Indianapolis Colts to Cleveland Browns. Details:
IND receives the following picks: Round 1 Pick 26 (26) (CLE), Round 3 Pick 25 (89) (CLE), Round 6 Pick 26 (209) (CLE)
CLE receives the following picks: Round 1 Pick 21 (21) (IND)
Cleveland Browns are on the clock.Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 21 (IND): Kwity Paye, DE/OLB, Michigan (A)
Round 2 Pick 27: Asante Samuel Jr, CB, Florida State (A)
Round 3 Pick 27: Alim McNeill, DT, North Carolina State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 5: Baron Browning, ILB/OLB, Ohio State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 27: Elijah Moore, WR, Mississippi (A+)
Round 5 Pick 25: Ben Cleveland, OG, Georgia (A+)
Round 7 Pick 29: Jamien Sherwood, FS/SS, Auburn (A+)
Your Future Picks:
2022 Round 1 Pick
2023 Round 1 PickOne trade mock
Current Pick:
Round 1 Pick 21
Team: Browns (received from IND)
Pick traded from Indianapolis Colts to Cleveland Browns. Details:
IND receives the following picks: Round 1 Pick 26 (26) (CLE), Round 3 Pick 25 (89) (CLE), Round 6 Pick 26 (209) (CLE)
CLE receives the following picks: Round 1 Pick 21 (21) (IND)
Cleveland Browns are on the clock.Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 21 (IND): Kwity Paye, DE/OLB, Michigan (A)
Round 2 Pick 27: Asante Samuel Jr, CB, Florida State (A)
Round 3 Pick 27: Alim McNeill, DT, North Carolina State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 5: Baron Browning, ILB/OLB, Ohio State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 27: Elijah Moore, WR, Mississippi (A+)
Round 5 Pick 25: Ben Cleveland, OG, Georgia (A+)
Round 7 Pick 29: Jamien Sherwood, FS/SS, Auburn (A+)
Your Future Picks:
2022 Round 1 Pick
2023 Round 1 PickI DO expect the Browns to leverage their 9 picks in this draft to move up a time or two. And jumping up like 5-6-7 spots in round one would/could/should be the kind of move to make.
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^^ How Browns fans ranked the team's positions of need for the 2021 NFL Draft
I just don't like most the results of waiting to take a DE in the 2nd round.. here's another
now the conversation is... Zaven Collins-Tulsa... a NFL DE or LB ?..? (any thoughts?) Tulsa played some funky mismatches to free up Collins..but, Those won't happen at next level)
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