2021 'Who are you watching?' NFL prospect thread.
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This was my first viewing of Barmore.
Initial thoughts.
- ND acquitted themselves very nicely in this game on the IOL.
- While CB is incredibly strong and showed some anchor against an elite IOL, he also looked to play a bit high consistently which fucked him over hard. He got out leveraged a good bit.
- Because of his higher pad level, he seems to fire off a little slower but good news is that his arm extension is solid and his hands work well. They're heavy and he's a brawler. But he doesn't seem to misplace them by getting into the OL face.
- His lateral play and agility is.... lacking. Granted I understand that isn't all his game but getting across his face wasn't an overly difficult task for ND.
- Pocket push against single is very hit or miss. High pads don't help.
- When he does win the inside shoulder he walks people back, but does so simply because he just overpowers lineman. Not easy, so it just displays his strength. Even when he does drive back, his balance and feet aren't always under him so you see him being "re-directed" by the ND OL.
I have to ask what I'm seeing here that would make him so elite that I would consider him 1st round? A fine player? Absolutely. Potentially great? Sure. But his ceiling looks Linval Joseph-ish.... So if you aren't that transcendent talent at IDL, is my 1st round investment worth it? Will he be someone that helps this team get over the hump come playoff time? Keep in mind that Linval was a 2nd round pick. CB's physically overpowering play style is not all that dissimilar from Javon Kinlaw who had a very up and down year with SF. By the end of this game the ND line was pretty worn down but the Bama defense rotates their line like a swarm. Whoever #48 is did some serious damage in that rotation when CB wasn't getting snaps. I'm going to have to watch more and I do remember him playing well against tOSU. But my own team building philosophy and importance placed where I would hypothetically draft IDL might not allow me to be completely enamored with Barmore.
He's disruptive enough to merit further watch though and that is absolutely what I will be doing.
One thing I noticed especially through the 1st half was that he drew a ton of double teams. If we take him they will not be able to do that against MG, SR and Barmore all at the same time. Now if we add Clowney to that mix...............quadruple terror for the QB. If we don't then we actually might see a real improvement to McKinley with those other 3 in the lineup with him. Somebody would get in almost every play. And even in his later years Jackson is no easy match either. I like what is happening in our DL. Barmore might be a bit raw, but I have confidence our D coaches can fix it quick. I'm getting excited about this DL for the coming season.
One thing I noticed especially through the 1st half was that he drew a ton of double teams.
If we take him they will not be able to do that against MG, SR and Barmore all at the same time.
Now if we add Clowney to that mix...............quadruple terror for the QB.
If we don't then we actually might see a real improvement to McKinley with those other 3 in the lineup with him.
I like what is happening in our DL. Barmore might be a bit raw, but I have confidence our D coaches can fix it quick.
- Of course he did. Notre Dame was committed to running the ball on the interior early and often. As a result, Barmore was in there heavily on 1st and 2nd downs. As the game wore on? Not so much. Also, Barmore plays the shade or nose so naturally he draws the most double teams. Any big body will by proximity of assignment alone. What he does against that chip help is really what to watch. He has elite strength, but he's a giant of a human being so he damn well had better be strong. But being strong alone isn't enough, which is where my concerns start to come in.
- Barmore wasn't in the rotation during obvious passing downs. So you're right, they won't be able to double MG, SR and Barmore all at the same time. Because the likely hood they see the field at the same time will again be early downs and redzone work.
- Clowney is an alright solution, but I would hardly call him a "terror". If anything Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack have made a fool of his career numbers despite not being the #1 overall.
- I hope we see improvement to McKinley period. The next best lineman he's played with was Grady Jarrett.
- "Quick" is relative. Barmore is a mountain of a man that might not have the natural ability to play as low as necessary to be effective. Even then, he's a 2 down player for at minimum the next 2 years while he works with professional coaches on technique and conditioning. Even if your flame develops an elite run stopping percentage, I can get most of that value back on Day 2 while I invest in either CB, WR or Edge day 1.
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-- Cam McGrone, Nico Collins, Osa Odighizuwa, Creed Humphrey, and Jamar Johnson. Highlights:McGrone over Jamin Davis, Collins dropped 20 pounds and dominated the Senior Bowl with newfound separation while retaining his obvious ball skills, Odi is 6'2 280# with 34" arms whose playstyle resembles Tuitt [start at 5T, move to 3T for passing downs], Humphrey's a plug-and-play C even though he may fall out of rd1, and Jamar is the Indiana S who picked Fields 2x.. likely best fit as near-LOS S bc only weakness is raw speed; short-area-quickness and intelligence are ridiculous.
-- Cam McGrone, Nico Collins, Osa Odighizuwa, Creed Humphrey, and Jamar Johnson. Highlights:McGrone over Jamin Davis, Collins dropped 20 pounds and dominated the Senior Bowl with newfound separation while retaining his obvious ball skills, Odi is 6'2 280# with 34" arms whose playstyle resembles Tuitt [start at 5T, move to 3T for passing downs], Humphrey's a plug-and-play C even though he may fall out of rd1, and Jamar is the Indiana S who picked Fields 2x.. likely best fit as near-LOS S bc only weakness is raw speed; short-area-quickness and intelligence are ridiculous.
Hey, two Michigan guys. I'll take it
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One thing I noticed especially through the 1st half was that he drew a ton of double teams.
If we take him they will not be able to do that against MG, SR and Barmore all at the same time.
Now if we add Clowney to that mix...............quadruple terror for the QB.
If we don't then we actually might see a real improvement to McKinley with those other 3 in the lineup with him.
I like what is happening in our DL. Barmore might be a bit raw, but I have confidence our D coaches can fix it quick.
- Of course he did. Notre Dame was committed to running the ball on the interior early and often. As a result, Barmore was in there heavily on 1st and 2nd downs. As the game wore on? Not so much. Also, Barmore plays the shade or nose so naturally he draws the most double teams. Any big body will by proximity of assignment alone. What he does against that chip help is really what to watch. He has elite strength, but he's a giant of a human being so he damn well had better be strong. But being strong alone isn't enough, which is where my concerns start to come in.
- Barmore wasn't in the rotation during obvious passing downs. So you're right, they won't be able to double MG, SR and Barmore all at the same time. Because the likely hood they see the field at the same time will again be early downs and redzone work.
- Clowney is an alright solution, but I would hardly call him a "terror". If anything Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack have made a fool of his career numbers despite not being the #1 overall.
- I hope we see improvement to McKinley period. The next best lineman he's played with was Grady Jarrett.
- "Quick" is relative. Barmore is a mountain of a man that might not have the natural ability to play as low as necessary to be effective. Even then, he's a 2 down player for at minimum the next 2 years while he works with professional coaches on technique and conditioning. Even if your flame develops an elite run stopping percentage, I can get most of that value back on Day 2 while I invest in either CB, WR or Edge day 1.
"Quick" is relative. Barmore is a mountain of a man that might not have the natural ability to play as low as necessary to be effective. Even then, he's a 2 down player for at minimum the next 2 years while he works with professional coaches on technique and conditioning. Even if your flame develops an elite run stopping percentage, I can get most of that value back on Day 2 while I invest in either CB, WR or Edge day 1.
My question on Edge is do you think there will still be one who can impact immediately still there @ #26? One good enough to get less double teaming of MG?
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"Quick" is relative. Barmore is a mountain of a man that might not have the natural ability to play as low as necessary to be effective. Even then, he's a 2 down player for at minimum the next 2 years while he works with professional coaches on technique and conditioning. Even if your flame develops an elite run stopping percentage, I can get most of that value back on Day 2 while I invest in either CB, WR or Edge day 1.
My question on Edge is do you think there will still be one who can impact immediately still there @ #26? One good enough to get less double teaming of MG?
My question on Edge is do you think there will still be one who can impact immediately still there @ #26? One good enough to get less double teaming of MG?
Haven't watched enough to give you that answer... yet. I know it sure ain't looking like Patrick Jones. I believe this is why you're seeing the early smoke from the Browns focusing on DB's.
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My question on Edge is do you think there will still be one who can impact immediately still there @ #26? One good enough to get less double teaming of MG?
Haven't watched enough to give you that answer... yet. I know it sure ain't looking like Patrick Jones. I believe this is why you're seeing the early smoke from the Browns focusing on DB's.
Haven't watched enough to give you that answer... yet. I know it sure ain't looking like Patrick Jones. I believe this is why you're seeing the early smoke from the Browns focusing on DB's.
If you get a chance take a look at Jaelan Phillips of Miami, though he may be long gone by #26.
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Haven't watched enough to give you that answer... yet. I know it sure ain't looking like Patrick Jones. I believe this is why you're seeing the early smoke from the Browns focusing on DB's.
If you get a chance take a look at Jaelan Phillips of Miami, though he may be long gone by #26.
If you get a chance take a look at Jaelan Phillips of Miami, though he may be long gone by #26.
it's said here that Phillips had a better pro day than Rousseau. I honestly believe the Browns will trade up for
the player they want - no higher than #20
https://www.brownsnation.com/espns-todd-mcshay-projects-gregory-rousseau-to-browns/
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If you get a chance take a look at Jaelan Phillips of Miami, though he may be long gone by #26.
it's said here that Phillips had a better pro day than Rousseau. I honestly believe the Browns will trade up for
the player they want - no higher than #20
https://www.brownsnation.com/espns-todd-mcshay-projects-gregory-rousseau-to-browns/
it's said here that Phillips had a better pro day than Rousseau. I honestly believe the Browns will trade up for
the player they want - no higher than #20
https://www.brownsnation.com/espns-todd-mcshay-projects-gregory-rousseau-to-browns/
Phillips' 4.56 and to 4.59 40 speed is blazing for a man that size.Not a bad 3 cone either.
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Because of where the Browns are at - this draft is ridiculous to predict. Been watching video of Joe Tryon.
Pretty interesting. Some reports say he'll be a better 3-4 OLB, he needs coached up, but could turn out to be a steal as an edge rusher. All he lacks is a few extra moves and experience...
Sure, I hope he falls to the Browns in the second round, but ain't going to happen.
Who knows who falls into the twenties within reach of the Browns?
nobody. It's crazy.
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talk is Caleb Farley could drop in the first round because if his "minor" back surgery. don't know about that surgery at all. Only an expert on knees lol.
big risk? or no?
https://www.brownsnation.com/caleb-farley-could-be-an-option-for-browns-on-draft-day/
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Because of where the Browns are at - this draft is ridiculous to predict. Been watching video of Joe Tryon.
Pretty interesting. Some reports say he'll be a better 3-4 OLB, he needs coached up, but could turn out to be a steal as an edge rusher. All he lacks is a few extra moves and experience...
Sure, I hope he falls to the Browns in the second round, but ain't going to happen.
Who knows who falls into the twenties within reach of the Browns?
nobody. It's crazy.
Because of where the Browns are at - this draft is ridiculous to predict. Been watching video of Joe Tryon.
Pretty interesting. Some reports say he'll be a better 3-4 OLB, he needs coached up, but could turn out to be a steal as an edge rusher. All he lacks is a few extra moves and experience...
Sure, I hope he falls to the Browns in the second round, but ain't going to happen.
Who knows who falls into the twenties within reach of the Browns?
nobody. It's crazy.
I thought he was an end of first round/second round guy
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https://www.nfl.com/prospects/milton-williams/32005749-4c45-4157-cbf6-f99ade2bc77d
^^^I like this guy as second day draftee. Athlete who uses hands knows the leverage game well. I’ll take it
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jaylen-twyman/32005457-5943-0123-fc3b-ed1775019dff
^^^beginning of day 3. Again smallish uses hands well. His Film shows him tossing around guys.
Greg Rousseau’s frame!!! I think we could get 2/3 deflections a game from him. The knock on him is winning one on one against tackles. so he’s not the complete prospect yet- fine. When he kicked inside he was destroying interior lineman...here’s a thought...let’s kick him inside on pass rush downs he either wins or gets those long arms in the way.
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https://www.nfl.com/prospects/milton-williams/32005749-4c45-4157-cbf6-f99ade2bc77d
^^^I like this guy as second day draftee. Athlete who uses hands knows the leverage game well. I’ll take it
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jaylen-twyman/32005457-5943-0123-fc3b-ed1775019dff
^^^beginning of day 3. Again smallish uses hands well. His Film shows him tossing around guys.
Greg Rousseau’s frame!!! I think we could get 2/3 deflections a game from him. The knock on him is winning one on one against tackles. so he’s not the complete prospect yet- fine. When he kicked inside he was destroying interior lineman...here’s a thought...let’s kick him inside on pass rush downs he either wins or gets those long arms in the way.
The knock on him is winning one on one against tackles. so he’s not the complete prospect yet- fine. When he kicked inside he was destroying interior lineman...here’s a thought...let’s kick him inside on pass rush downs he either wins or gets those long arms in the way.
Sounds like Michael Bennett in the early days. The only problem is you can't be THAT one dimensional. I need some type of edge rush generated.
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The knock on him is winning one on one against tackles. so he’s not the complete prospect yet- fine. When he kicked inside he was destroying interior lineman...here’s a thought...let’s kick him inside on pass rush downs he either wins or gets those long arms in the way.
Sounds like Michael Bennett in the early days. The only problem is you can't be THAT one dimensional. I need some type of edge rush generated.
Sounds like Michael Bennett in the early days. The only problem is you can't be THAT one dimensional. I need some type of edge rush generated.
True and maybe it is just a matter of soaking up some NFL coaching learning some pass rush techniques. Building strength too core and lower body. If the work ethic is there you can mold a 6’7’” long framed athlete. 15 1/2 sacks in 2019 while being pretty raw. Impressive.
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Sounds like Michael Bennett in the early days. The only problem is you can't be THAT one dimensional. I need some type of edge rush generated.
True and maybe it is just a matter of soaking up some NFL coaching learning some pass rush techniques. Building strength too core and lower body. If the work ethic is there you can mold a 6’7’” long framed athlete. 15 1/2 sacks in 2019 while being pretty raw. Impressive.
True and maybe it is just a matter of soaking up some NFL coaching learning some pass rush techniques. Building strength too core and lower body. If the work ethic is there you can mold a 6’7’” long framed athlete. 15 1/2 sacks in 2019 while being pretty raw. Impressive.
Maybe's it's just me, but players that tall on the edge give me worries on their hip flexibility and bend. Dion Jordan coming out of Oregon being taken so high was a knee slapper and that's what I tend to think of.
Julius Peppers is the only edge that damn tall who really comes to mind? Most of the great I can think of are between 6'2 and 6'5.
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True and maybe it is just a matter of soaking up some NFL coaching learning some pass rush techniques. Building strength too core and lower body. If the work ethic is there you can mold a 6’7’” long framed athlete. 15 1/2 sacks in 2019 while being pretty raw. Impressive.
Maybe's it's just me, but players that tall on the edge give me worries on their hip flexibility and bend. Dion Jordan coming out of Oregon being taken so high was a knee slapper and that's what I tend to think of.
Julius Peppers is the only edge that damn tall who really comes to mind? Most of the great I can think of are between 6'2 and 6'5.
Maybe's it's just me, but players that tall on the edge give me worries on their hip flexibility and bend. Dion Jordan coming out of Oregon being taken so high was a knee slapper and that's what I tend to think of.
Julius Peppers is the only edge that damn tall who really comes to mind? Most of the great I can think of are between 6'2 and 6'5.
I see Calais Campbell early stages of career if he fills out. Campbell was taller I believe too.
When you watch some of the tape on him he gets small when bringing the heat inside...he slips past blockers pretty well.He’s a converted WR/Safety HS with 1 year of DE experience. There’s a ton of room to grow.
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The knock on him is winning one on one against tackles. so he’s not the complete prospect yet- fine. When he kicked inside he was destroying interior lineman...here’s a thought...let’s kick him inside on pass rush downs he either wins or gets those long arms in the way.
Sounds like Michael Bennett in the early days. The only problem is you can't be THAT one dimensional. I need some type of edge rush generated.
Sounds like Michael Bennett in the early days. The only problem is you can't be THAT one dimensional. I need some type of edge rush generated.
Interesting background story on Michael. TE Brother Martellus was considered the big catch as the #1 overall player in Texas HS football. A&M got him signed after they also offered his brother Michael a schollie. Everyone thought that was just using the leverage to get Martellus on the bottom line, but over time Michael turned out to be the real 5 star pro, not Martellus.
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One name sure to be there for us is Wake's Bashum...
... if only his play lived up to his name.
Based on some unexpectedly decent Pro Day times I watched three 2020 games and was left to wonder what others see that earns him Round 2 status, let alone bottom of the 1st. IIRC the games were Clemson, NC State and NC(?)... not sure about the last one.
Major takeaways...
- no get-off... Seriously the man was consistently a beat slower out of his 3-point than every other lineman on both sides of the ball.
- low agility... He beat one OT on one play on a speed rush... and then could not turn the corner to get to the QB.
- inability to find the ball... In a later game he spent more time in a 2-point. I think it was so he could at least see where the ball started.
- edge insecurity... I saw wide ZBS plays to his side (usually LDE) where he turned his back to the OL on him and ran with them as if it was a race to the sideline. RBs regularly made cut back decisions... and yardage.
Any positives? Maybe one... assignment discipline. Kid stayed at home when the play went away, broke down and looked ready for QB keeping any option. Problem was when the QB made a bad read and did keep it he was able to beat Bashum to the outside anyway.
I wasn't expecting much... and got a lot less than I was expecting.
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I don't know this Cleveland writer?.. but he's blunt & bold & certainly not Mary Kay
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