First, Second or Third round DTs?
-
Athlon and I are going to have a real disagreement here. Because I watched the Iowa State and Sparty games and that was about the complete opposite of what I saw. Also, if Nixon is 305 then I'm a god damn china-man. ( @dutch-oven, a little movie line there I snuck in)
edit: directed in general - wouldn't be surprised to see the Browns go 2 IDL in the first 4 rounds or so. I don't believe Sheldon Day makes the active roster.
Iowa State? That might be why he didn't look like he was at the weight Athlon and Lindy's had him at. Let's not get hung up on official weights in a year without Indy combines that giving us official numbers.
I DO like seeing he was the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year. If you want to argue he's something we shouldn't have any interest in at pick #26 or #59, that's fine.
Thanks for weighing in...
Iowa State? That might be why he didn't look like he was at the weight Athlon and Lindy's had him at. Let's not get hung up on official weights in a year without Indy combines that giving us official numbers.
I DO like seeing he was the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year. If you want to argue he's something we shouldn't have any interest in at pick #26 or #59, that's fine.
Thanks for weighing in...
Last time I looked Iowa State was not in the Big 10. Did you mean Iowa?
-
Athlon and I are going to have a real disagreement here. Because I watched the Iowa State and Sparty games and that was about the complete opposite of what I saw. Also, if Nixon is 305 then I'm a god damn china-man. ( @dutch-oven, a little movie line there I snuck in)
edit: directed in general - wouldn't be surprised to see the Browns go 2 IDL in the first 4 rounds or so. I don't believe Sheldon Day makes the active roster.
Iowa State? That might be why he didn't look like he was at the weight Athlon and Lindy's had him at. Let's not get hung up on official weights in a year without Indy combines that giving us official numbers.
I DO like seeing he was the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year. If you want to argue he's something we shouldn't have any interest in at pick #26 or #59, that's fine.
Thanks for weighing in...
Iowa State? That might be why he didn't look like he was at the weight Athlon and Lindy's had him at. Let's not get hung up on official weights in a year without Indy combines that giving us official numbers.
I DO like seeing he was the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year. If you want to argue he's something we shouldn't have any interest in at pick #26 or #59, that's fine.
Thanks for weighing in...
Glad to see you're back around.
Last time I looked Iowa State was not in the Big 10. Did you mean Iowa?
I said Iowa state. I remember watching a couple of Iowa's games this year. The one that stands out was the Iowa v Sparty game and I wanted to say also against Iowa State or one of those midwestern schools. Pretty sure it was Corn state though - I'm just too lazy to look it up right now.
-
FYI. Iowa and Iowa St play every year for the CY Hawk trophy. Covid took away their 2020 meeting. Big rivalry game actually as is their annual wrestling match.
-
FYI. Iowa and Iowa St play every year for the CY Hawk trophy. Covid took away their 2020 meeting. Big rivalry game actually as is their annual wrestling match.
FYI. Iowa and Iowa St play every year for the CY Hawk trophy. Covid took away their 2020 meeting. Big rivalry game actually as is their annual wrestling match.
Like I said, it was one of those midwestern overweight, ethanol, butter and corn games. Just can't remember which one besides sparty.
-
What do any of you think of these names as possible picks for the Browns in the second or third round at Defensive Tackle (assuming they don't take one in round one):
Alim McNeili NC St.
Milton Williams La Tech
Jaylen Twyman Pitt
Tommy Togiai Ohio St.
All I really know about their skills is that Togiai was a monster bench presser.
And with the Release of Sheldon Richardson, I guess we should also be thinking about a possible First rounder. Who there?
What do any of you think of these names as possible picks for the Browns in the second or third round at Defensive Tackle (assuming they don't take one in round one):
Alim McNeili NC St.
Milton Williams La Tech
Jaylen Twyman Pitt
Tommy Togiai Ohio St.
All I really know about their skills is that Togiai was a monster bench presser.
And with the Release of Sheldon Richardson, I guess we should also be thinking about a possible First rounder. Who there?
I think there is a good chance we draft a DT...Nixon would possibly be another name for the 2nd or 3rd round. McNeil would be my guess.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Iowa State? That might be why he didn't look like he was at the weight Athlon and Lindy's had him at. Let's not get hung up on official weights in a year without Indy combines that giving us official numbers.
I DO like seeing he was the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year. If you want to argue he's something we shouldn't have any interest in at pick #26 or #59, that's fine.
Thanks for weighing in...
Glad to see you're back around.
Last time I looked Iowa State was not in the Big 10. Did you mean Iowa?
I said Iowa state. I remember watching a couple of Iowa's games this year. The one that stands out was the Iowa v Sparty game and I wanted to say also against Iowa State or one of those midwestern schools. Pretty sure it was Corn state though - I'm just too lazy to look it up right now.
Glad to see you're back around.
I said Iowa state. I remember watching a couple of Iowa's games this year. The one that stands out was the Iowa v Sparty game and I wanted to say also against Iowa State or one of those midwestern schools. Pretty sure it was Corn state though - I'm just too lazy to look it up right now.
What player are we talking about here. It would be pretty easy to figure it out. If Dayvion Nixon, then he went to Iowa...which of course is Big Ten.
I don't know of any NFL prospects from the Big 12's Iowa State on the DL:
The Top 10 NFL Prospects at Iowa State:
1. Brock Purdy, QB, 6-1, 212, 4.80, JR
2. Tarique Milton, WR, 5-09, 176, 4.45, rJR
3. Charlie Kolar, TE, 6-5, 250, 4.75, rJR
4. Greg Eisworth, S, 5-11, 198, 4.55, rSR
5. Lawrence White, S, 6-0, 191, 4.45, rSR
6. Chase Allen, TE, 6-6, 240, 4.75, rSR
7. Anthony Johnson, CB, 6-0, 175, 4.45, JR
8. O’Rien Vance, ILB, 6-1, 235, 4.80, rJR
9. Will McDonald, OLB, 6-3, 220, 4.60, rSoph
-
FYI. Iowa and Iowa St play every year for the CY Hawk trophy. Covid took away their 2020 meeting. Big rivalry game actually as is their annual wrestling match.
Like I said, it was one of those midwestern overweight, ethanol, butter and corn games. Just can't remember which one besides sparty.
-
What do any of you think of these names as possible picks for the Browns in the second or third round at Defensive Tackle (assuming they don't take one in round one):
Alim McNeili NC St.
Milton Williams La Tech
Jaylen Twyman Pitt
Tommy Togiai Ohio St.
All I really know about their skills is that Togiai was a monster bench presser.
And with the Release of Sheldon Richardson, I guess we should also be thinking about a possible First rounder. Who there?
I think there is a good chance we draft a DT...Nixon would possibly be another name for the 2nd or 3rd round. McNeil would be my guess.
I think there is a good chance we draft a DT...Nixon would possibly be another name for the 2nd or 3rd round. McNeil would be my guess.
So? What about those 40 reps at 225 lbs. by Togiai? Is that a big deal, or just a workout warrior stat?
-
Jesus Tap Dancin' Christ.
tia never said Daviyon Nixon played for Iowa State. He said he watched Nixon's game tape from the games he played against Iowa State and Michigan State, for fuck's sake.
Can we move on now?
-
So? What about those 40 reps at 225 lbs. by Togiai? Is that a big deal, or just a workout warrior stat?
Strength counts. I don't know how functional 40 reps v someone who does 30 might be. Lacking reps would hurt, but doing way more might get in to the area of diminished returns. At some point I am not sure it helps all that much more.
-
So? What about those 40 reps at 225 lbs. by Togiai? Is that a big deal, or just a workout warrior stat?
Big deal AND he played well this past year too. He was a guy you had to account for and this was the first year in long time where OSU didn’t have a elite outside presence (DE).
One of my favorite 2nd/3rd day guys in this draft Jaylen Twyman put up 40 reps as well. Similar builds too.
-
So? What about those 40 reps at 225 lbs. by Togiai? Is that a big deal, or just a workout warrior stat?
Big deal AND he played well this past year too. He was a guy you had to account for and this was the first year in long time where OSU didn’t have a elite outside presence (DE).
One of my favorite 2nd/3rd day guys in this draft Jaylen Twyman put up 40 reps as well. Similar builds too.
Big deal AND he played well this past year too. He was a guy you had to account for and this was the first year in long time where OSU didn’t have a elite outside presence (DE).
One of my favorite 2nd/3rd day guys in this draft Jaylen Twyman put up 40 reps as well. Similar builds too.
In the end, the key is how they play. The strongest guy doesn't mean the best player.
-
Big deal AND he played well this past year too. He was a guy you had to account for and this was the first year in long time where OSU didn’t have a elite outside presence (DE).
One of my favorite 2nd/3rd day guys in this draft Jaylen Twyman put up 40 reps as well. Similar builds too.
In the end, the key is how they play. The strongest guy doesn't mean the best player.
In the end, the key is how they play. The strongest guy doesn't mean the best player.
Of course it is and both guys I mentioned were productive along with putting up 40 reps.
-
Big deal AND he played well this past year too. He was a guy you had to account for and this was the first year in long time where OSU didn’t have a elite outside presence (DE).
One of my favorite 2nd/3rd day guys in this draft Jaylen Twyman put up 40 reps as well. Similar builds too.
In the end, the key is how they play. The strongest guy doesn't mean the best player.
In the end, the key is how they play. The strongest guy doesn't mean the best football player. ----FIFY
Back in the 60's the strongest, biggest guy at Kyle Field in College Station was 6'7" 265 lbs. He was so big and so strong that he was the first man in the world to throw the shot put over 70 ft. where he practiced in a ring just outside the back of one of the endzones. Gene Stallings was so mad that he could not convince him to use that size to help his team that he may have even considered barring him from that practice area-but didn't. However Randy Matson did finally volunteer to play on the basketball team his senior year where they won the SWC championship in 1969. I still think Stallings may have never forgiven him for that.? But it sure was fun watching Randy bounce smaller players off him who tried to block him off from rebounds.??
-
So? What about those 40 reps at 225 lbs. by Togiai? Is that a big deal, or just a workout warrior stat?
Big deal AND he played well this past year too. He was a guy you had to account for and this was the first year in long time where OSU didn’t have a elite outside presence (DE).
One of my favorite 2nd/3rd day guys in this draft Jaylen Twyman put up 40 reps as well. Similar builds too.
Big deal AND he played well this past year too.
Moderate deal...
Upper body strength is nice for shedding blocks, but without core and lower body to match it is wasted. Of the top 5 bench press performances ever you have likely only heard of one of them. https://www.sportscasting.com/top-5-nfl-combine-bench-press-performances-in-history/
Meanwhile...
Little article on 5 DTs in the draft. https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/04/19/cleveland-browns-5-2021-nfl-draft-prospects-to-replace-sheldon-richardson/
It includes the usual suspects... Barmore... McNeill... Keyser Soze...
... my guy 
... and a new-to-me name, Jonathan Marshall, Arkansas.
2. Marlon Tuipulotu, USC
One of this writer’s favorite DT prospects this year, Marlon Tuipulotu is an all-around solid player. He’s nothing special physically or athletically, but he does his job well. He’s a guy who you don’t have to take off the field on passing downs, and can anchor well against the run.
He stands 6-foot-2 and 308 pounds with solid athletic testing and decent production. He is very good at shedding blocks, which is something that not all prospects can say, despite how important of a skill it is for a defensive tackle.
Jay Tufele was billed as a potential first-round pick before opting out of the season. Had he played, that USC interior would have been one of the best in the country. In reality, Tuipulotu put together a very solid campaign, but is underrated because he isn’t a flashy player.
1. Jonathan Marshall, Arkansas
One of Cleveland’s team guardrails is that “age is important”. The oldest player the Browns drafted last year was Jordan Elliott, who turned 23 in September. Age is important because older players are more physically developed, and therefore theoretically have less room to improve after being drafted.
There’s also the concern that they performed well in college because they were much older than their competition; BYU’s Khyiris Tonga, for example, had a great 2020 season and some extremely fun tape. The problem is he was a 25-year-old beating up on 18-22-year-olds, so it would have been an issue if he weren’t manhandling his opponents.
Jonathan Marshall will turn 24 in September, which is a negative. However, perhaps the team will be willing to relax the age guardrail in the later rounds for a player like Marshall. He wasn’t very productive on the stat sheet, but he’s extremely explosive and disruptive. At the right value on Day 3, he could be a great option and could end up as perhaps the best tackle from this class.
Tuipulotu seems like he’ll be a late third to early fourth-round pick, which is also the area of the draft that the Browns will likely be looking to add to the position room. Sheldon Day is currently slated to be the backup one-tech, so finding a rookie who can fill that role this season and be a potential future starter is a good idea.
-
Big deal AND he played well this past year too.
Moderate deal...
Upper body strength is nice for shedding blocks, but without core and lower body to match it is wasted. Of the top 5 bench press performances ever you have likely only heard of one of them. https://www.sportscasting.com/top-5-nfl-combine-bench-press-performances-in-history/
Meanwhile...
Little article on 5 DTs in the draft. https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/04/19/cleveland-browns-5-2021-nfl-draft-prospects-to-replace-sheldon-richardson/
It includes the usual suspects... Barmore... McNeill... Keyser Soze...
... my guy ... and a new-to-me name, Jonathan Marshall, Arkansas.
2. Marlon Tuipulotu, USC
One of this writer’s favorite DT prospects this year, Marlon Tuipulotu is an all-around solid player. He’s nothing special physically or athletically, but he does his job well. He’s a guy who you don’t have to take off the field on passing downs, and can anchor well against the run.
He stands 6-foot-2 and 308 pounds with solid athletic testing and decent production. He is very good at shedding blocks, which is something that not all prospects can say, despite how important of a skill it is for a defensive tackle.
Jay Tufele was billed as a potential first-round pick before opting out of the season. Had he played, that USC interior would have been one of the best in the country. In reality, Tuipulotu put together a very solid campaign, but is underrated because he isn’t a flashy player.
1. Jonathan Marshall, Arkansas
One of Cleveland’s team guardrails is that “age is important”. The oldest player the Browns drafted last year was Jordan Elliott, who turned 23 in September. Age is important because older players are more physically developed, and therefore theoretically have less room to improve after being drafted.
There’s also the concern that they performed well in college because they were much older than their competition; BYU’s Khyiris Tonga, for example, had a great 2020 season and some extremely fun tape. The problem is he was a 25-year-old beating up on 18-22-year-olds, so it would have been an issue if he weren’t manhandling his opponents.
Jonathan Marshall will turn 24 in September, which is a negative. However, perhaps the team will be willing to relax the age guardrail in the later rounds for a player like Marshall. He wasn’t very productive on the stat sheet, but he’s extremely explosive and disruptive. At the right value on Day 3, he could be a great option and could end up as perhaps the best tackle from this class.
Tuipulotu seems like he’ll be a late third to early fourth-round pick, which is also the area of the draft that the Browns will likely be looking to add to the position room. Sheldon Day is currently slated to be the backup one-tech, so finding a rookie who can fill that role this season and be a potential future starter is a good idea.
Moderate deal...
Upper body strength is nice for shedding blocks, but without core and lower body to match it is wasted. Of the top 5 bench press performances ever you have likely only heard of one of them. https://www.sportscasting.com/top-5-nfl-combine-bench-press-performances-in-history/
Meanwhile...
Little article on 5 DTs in the draft. https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/04/19/cleveland-browns-5-2021-nfl-draft-prospects-to-replace-sheldon-richardson/
It includes the usual suspects... Barmore... McNeill... Keyser Soze...
... my guy ... and a new-to-me name, Jonathan Marshall, Arkansas.
It is all a big deal to me. We can argue if it is big or moderate probably no right or wrong answer to it.
Personally I like to see production or a darn good excuse for lack of production. But I think the workouts are a big deal and they measure strength, speed and agility everything you need to be successful on the Dline.
And if I could go even further. I love DL with wrestling backgrounds. I haven’t looked at bios this draft year. You mention core and lower body- a wrestler has freakish core strength and understands the leverage game working angles (positioning). And hand fighting a wrestling match is large a hand fight. The bench press is pretty pointless to a wrestler but you are engaging differently in football than you are wrestling.
-
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/wyatt-hubert-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-interview
^^^wrestling mention with DL
Regarding the prospect Maybe a 3rd day flyer...he looks like he would be a great special teams player early on.
-
Moderate deal...
Upper body strength is nice for shedding blocks, but without core and lower body to match it is wasted. Of the top 5 bench press performances ever you have likely only heard of one of them. https://www.sportscasting.com/top-5-nfl-combine-bench-press-performances-in-history/
Meanwhile...
Little article on 5 DTs in the draft. https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/04/19/cleveland-browns-5-2021-nfl-draft-prospects-to-replace-sheldon-richardson/
It includes the usual suspects... Barmore... McNeill... Keyser Soze...
... my guy ... and a new-to-me name, Jonathan Marshall, Arkansas.
It is all a big deal to me. We can argue if it is big or moderate probably no right or wrong answer to it.
Personally I like to see production or a darn good excuse for lack of production. But I think the workouts are a big deal and they measure strength, speed and agility everything you need to be successful on the Dline.
And if I could go even further. I love DL with wrestling backgrounds. I haven’t looked at bios this draft year. You mention core and lower body- a wrestler has freakish core strength and understands the leverage game working angles (positioning). And hand fighting a wrestling match is large a hand fight. The bench press is pretty pointless to a wrestler but you are engaging differently in football than you are wrestling.
I love DL with wrestling backgrounds.
Lockstep with you on this...
My all-time fav Browns DT? Jerry Sherk... I've often posted that but for his knee injury(ies) back in the time of stone-knives and bearskins orthopedics, IMO, he'd be in the HOF.
As for the rest... all just opinion. You give yours... I give mine. It's the stuff of forums. That said...
I can't tell you how many articles I've read that the bench press is the least useful measurement The Combine produces. For example...
- https://www.insidescience.org/news/how-much-does-combine-reveal-about-future-nfl-players
- https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/fulltext/2019/01000/National_Scouting_Combine_Scores_as_Performance.12.aspx#R23-12
- https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2760924-what-is-the-most-important-combine-event-for-each-nfl-position
The former finds that for IDLs the broad jump most highly correlates with NFL success. The latter doesn't list "bench press" for any position.
The middle one? It's referenced in the first.
I mention these because they agree with my opinion... not because they disagree with yours...
As to the why of my opinion... simple... you can teach/build strength.
And while you can hone a standing broad or vertical jump, or a shuttle/3-cone time... you really can't instruct a prospect to a result that wows.
Personally, I use Combine results for two things...
- a check on any evaluations I have done, i.e., do the numbers match what I saw "on tape";
- a sign that I need to look at someone I have not yet evaluated.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
A lot of IDL that are recruited that way from High school have wrestling backgrounds. Leverage, stamina, footwork and balance...
Plus the psychological component as well. Want to get the exhaustion of playing a full football game but in 1/3 of the time? Go 3 full periods on the mat and you'll be half dead.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login