Who Could be THE Bust of this draft?
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Parsons ain't busting...
At least one of the now 5(?) QBs who have been penciled into Rnd 1 is going to "disappoint".
I'm already on record saying something about Lawrence isn't sitting well with me... same feeling I had with Wentz... so might as well roll with the biggest potential bust there can be.
Parsons ain't busting...
At least one of the now 5(?) QBs who have been penciled into Rnd 1 is going to "disappoint".
I'm already on record saying something about Lawrence isn't sitting well with me... same feeling I had with Wentz... so might as well roll with the biggest potential bust there can be.
One? History says that at minimum it could be 2-3.
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Surprisingly, I think Micah Parsons might be a bust.
If much of that is true, then watch for a grand drop next week.
This is the beginning of blowing smoke week though.
If much of that is true, then watch for a grand drop next week.
This is the beginning of blowing smoke week though.
If he grandly drops into the Browns lap....that could be a good thing, for us.
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Zombo said:
Are you comparing Tim Couch to Bo Jackson and Andrew Luck?
Z
From the standpoint that each had their careers curtailed by injuries, yes.
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The biggest bust of the day is steelers resigning Tomlin for another 3 years. Was so happy to hear that
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If much of that is true, then watch for a grand drop next week.
This is the beginning of blowing smoke week though.
If he grandly drops into the Browns lap....that could be a good thing, for us.
If he grandly drops into the Browns lap....that could be a good thing, for us.
That would not bother me. If anyone can handle "personalities" it's Stef.
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Zombo said:
So?
Couch was a bust.
Bo was a Pro Bowler with a spectacular 5.4 ypc.
Luck was a 4-time Pro Bowler and a big winner.
Couch was less than ordinary. Threw more INTs than TDs. Never sniffed a Pro Bowl. Never a rating of at least 80.
Luck played like a #1 overall, Couch didn't play like anything close to it.
If you suck, then you get injured, you're still a bust.
Z
Couch led a team that was nothing but paper to the playoffs in 4 years. There was absolutlely NO chance for him to have been anything but less than ordinary, particularly given the offensive line he had to play behind all his years.
Bo was good, but never had his team in the playoffs.
Luck got picked by a team that had had 9 consecutive 10+ win seasons before they purposely and with designed intent tanked the season in order to be able to draft him. Fair enough, but don't equate that with the situation that Couch was put in.
Had Couch come to an established team, had he had a decent O Line, he very well may have been a Pro Bowl QB. But he was put in the worst of the worst of situations. I am not sure that Luck could have actually done much better with the Browns in the same situation. And then Couch got hurt, torn labrum, torn rotator cuff.
Couch was probably better than any QB we have had since 1999 until Baker.
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Zombo said:
Couch sucked.
Z
And yet he was the best player on the team for some time
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Here is a link to what some one guy thinks are the biggest busts in draft history:
Who, among this year's group of highly touted draft picks do you think could land on that list?
And, by the way....they have Tim Couch on that list, but sorry, if you are going to list guys whose career's were cut short by injuries, then you have to include the following as draft busts:
Bo Jackson (hip injury.....and never while he played did his team ever make the playoffs....at least Couch essentially got a team to the playoffs)
Ernie Davis . Died from Leukemia. Tragic.....but it could/should be classified as a draft bust.
Kijana Carter. He is a guy that IS considered a draft bust because of the injuries he suffered.
Steve Emtman.
Even Andrew Luck.
Who else?
(Note like NBA guys: Sam Bowie/Greg Oden)
Here is a link to what some one guy thinks are the biggest busts in draft history:
Who, among this year's group of highly touted draft picks do you think could land on that list?
And, by the way....they have Tim Couch on that list, but sorry, if you are going to list guys whose career's were cut short by injuries, then you have to include the following as draft busts:
Bo Jackson (hip injury.....and never while he played did his team ever make the playoffs....at least Couch essentially got a team to the playoffs)
Ernie Davis . Died from Leukemia. Tragic.....but it could/should be classified as a draft bust.
Kijana Carter. He is a guy that IS considered a draft bust because of the injuries he suffered.
Steve Emtman.
Even Andrew Luck.
Who else?
(Note like NBA guys: Sam Bowie/Greg Oden)
Trey Lance. Don’t see it. But I’m not a very good QB picker.
Travis Etienne
Kwity Paye
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Lawrence
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Trevor Lawrence and Urban both flop In Jacksonville. That’s my prediction
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Couch wasn't a bust in the traditional sense, but I don't think he was even the best QB on the Browns when Holcomb was on the roster too...
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Parsons ain't busting...
At least one of the now 5(?) QBs who have been penciled into Rnd 1 is going to "disappoint".
I'm already on record saying something about Lawrence isn't sitting well with me... same feeling I had with Wentz... so might as well roll with the biggest potential bust there can be.
Parsons ain't busting...
aha ! Well, that explains that - Good for Parsons. Some teams may pass on him - what that's saying? you can take a hoodlum out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the hoodlum?
Zombo said:
So?
Couch was a bust.
Bo was a Pro Bowler with a spectacular 5.4 ypc.
Luck was a 4-time Pro Bowler and a big winner.
Couch was less than ordinary. Threw more INTs than TDs. Never sniffed a Pro Bowl. Never a rating of at least 80.
Luck played like a #1 overall, Couch didn't play like anything close to it.
If you suck, then you get injured, you're still a bust.
Z
Couch was a NOT a bust, ....... it wasn't all his fault. His oline got po'd that the rookie started instead of the veteran. I watched it - they blocked entirely different for the veteran, and they weren't that good to begin with. His wr's were mediocre, offensive line let Couch get the hell beaten out of him on the snap.... the offensive line couldn't gen much of a running game. Northcutt?
https://factoryofsadness.co/2020/04/01/cleveland-browns-tim-couch-wasnt-bust/
Cleveland Browns: Tim Couch wasn’t a bust, no matter how you look at it
It also didn’t help that his two best receivers were a slot guy in Dennis Northcutt and a great number two receiver in Kevin Johnson forced to play number one. No wonder when he wasn’t being slaughtered by the defensive line, he didn’t have the best success throwing the ball.
Davis also showed his hand a bit as a head coach. Sure, he had a great run at the University of Miami, but he relied on former Hurricane players far too much, and built a team that was at best inconsistent, and at worst poorly built.
With the Browns, Davis had full control. Opting to take Gerard Warren over LaDanian Tomilson, despite the team’s desperate need for offensive playmakers. They also passed on Chad Johnson for Quincy Morgan in the same draft.
Then the team chose Green over Ed Reed and Javon Walker in 2002. Wanna talk about Kellen “No Knees” Winslow in 2004? No? I didn’t think so. In fact, the Browns didn’t draft a rookie offensive lineman until the 6th round in the 2000 NFL Draft. The first linemen taken in the first day (which covered the first three rounds back then) was Melvin Fowler in 2002. It would take the Browns FOUR years to draft a lineman in the first round of an NFL Draft in Jeff Faine. Faine was actually a good player, not a Hall of Famer but did his job.
Couch’s offensive line was abysmal. The best offensive lineman was Dave Wohlabaugh, and he was a center. The left tackle in 2002 was Ross Verba, more known for his scandals than his play. Though it all, the Browns only “big” addition through free agency was Ryan Tucker, a former starter on the Rams SuperBowl teams. When healthy he played well and was with the team until he left the league. Yet, the team rarely made plays to improve the offense. By the time they did it was too late for Couch.
His shoulder was shot, and all the progress he made from his rookie to his fourth season was washed away with steady and persistent unprotected hits.
It’s hard to call someone a bust when he produced and did something no other quarterback has done in 21-plus years in Cleveland; take the Browns to the playoffs.
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https://www.foxsports.com/ohio/story/bruce-arians-tim-couch-cleveland-browns-110614
In an interview with Peter King of The MMQB, Arizona head coach Bruce Arians called Tim Couch the most misunderstood player he ever coached.
Arians was Cleveland’s offensive coordinator in 2002 under head coach Butch Davis. The Browns went 9-7 during the regular season and earned the franchise’s only playoff berth since the team returned to the league in 1999.
Arians was asked who the most misunderstood player was that he ever coached, and he answered, "Tim Couch. Hell of a player. Tim was no bust. It kills me when people call him a bust. His arm was just so torn up he couldn’t play anymore. He would have been a real good one."
Couch played five seasons in the NFL, all with the Browns. He threw for 11,131 yards, 64 touchdowns and 67 interceptions. His 75.1 quarterback rating ranks him sixth in team history for all players with at least 750 pass attempts.
He was the first overall draft pick in 1999 and the franchise’s first selection following Art Modell’s decision to take the team to Baltimore.
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Couch wasn't a bust in the traditional sense, but I don't think he was even the best QB on the Browns when Holcomb was on the roster too...
Couch wasn't a bust in the traditional sense, but I don't think he was even the best QB on the Browns when Holcomb was on the roster too...
Kelly Holcomb fooled everybody when he tore up the Steelers decimated secondary in a playoff game.
When they threw Couch to the curb they found out Holcomb wasn't any better. So they went out & got Jeff Garcia.
Karlis Missed -
Couch wasn't a bust in the traditional sense, but I don't think he was even the best QB on the Browns when Holcomb was on the roster too...
Kelly Holcomb fooled everybody when he tore up the Steelers decimated secondary in a playoff game.
When they threw Couch to the curb they found out Holcomb wasn't any better. So they went out & got Jeff Garcia.
Kelly Holcomb fooled everybody when he tore up the Steelers decimated secondary in a playoff game.
When they threw Couch to the curb they found out Holcomb wasn't any better. So they went out & got Jeff Garcia.
Who wasn't any better than either of them.....but, he did nab a hot wife out of being here:
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Parsons ain't busting...
aha ! Well, that explains that - Good for Parsons. Some teams may pass on him - what that's saying? you can take a hoodlum out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the hoodlum?
Zombo said:
So?
Couch was a bust.
Bo was a Pro Bowler with a spectacular 5.4 ypc.
Luck was a 4-time Pro Bowler and a big winner.
Couch was less than ordinary. Threw more INTs than TDs. Never sniffed a Pro Bowl. Never a rating of at least 80.
Luck played like a #1 overall, Couch didn't play like anything close to it.
If you suck, then you get injured, you're still a bust.
Z
Couch was a NOT a bust, ....... it wasn't all his fault. His oline got po'd that the rookie started instead of the veteran. I watched it - they blocked entirely different for the veteran, and they weren't that good to begin with. His wr's were mediocre, offensive line let Couch get the hell beaten out of him on the snap.... the offensive line couldn't gen much of a running game. Northcutt?
https://factoryofsadness.co/2020/04/01/cleveland-browns-tim-couch-wasnt-bust/
Cleveland Browns: Tim Couch wasn’t a bust, no matter how you look at it
It also didn’t help that his two best receivers were a slot guy in Dennis Northcutt and a great number two receiver in Kevin Johnson forced to play number one. No wonder when he wasn’t being slaughtered by the defensive line, he didn’t have the best success throwing the ball.
Davis also showed his hand a bit as a head coach. Sure, he had a great run at the University of Miami, but he relied on former Hurricane players far too much, and built a team that was at best inconsistent, and at worst poorly built.
With the Browns, Davis had full control. Opting to take Gerard Warren over LaDanian Tomilson, despite the team’s desperate need for offensive playmakers. They also passed on Chad Johnson for Quincy Morgan in the same draft.
Then the team chose Green over Ed Reed and Javon Walker in 2002. Wanna talk about Kellen “No Knees” Winslow in 2004? No? I didn’t think so. In fact, the Browns didn’t draft a rookie offensive lineman until the 6th round in the 2000 NFL Draft. The first linemen taken in the first day (which covered the first three rounds back then) was Melvin Fowler in 2002. It would take the Browns FOUR years to draft a lineman in the first round of an NFL Draft in Jeff Faine. Faine was actually a good player, not a Hall of Famer but did his job.
Couch’s offensive line was abysmal. The best offensive lineman was Dave Wohlabaugh, and he was a center. The left tackle in 2002 was Ross Verba, more known for his scandals than his play. Though it all, the Browns only “big” addition through free agency was Ryan Tucker, a former starter on the Rams SuperBowl teams. When healthy he played well and was with the team until he left the league. Yet, the team rarely made plays to improve the offense. By the time they did it was too late for Couch.
His shoulder was shot, and all the progress he made from his rookie to his fourth season was washed away with steady and persistent unprotected hits.
It’s hard to call someone a bust when he produced and did something no other quarterback has done in 21-plus years in Cleveland; take the Browns to the playoffs.
you can take a hoodlum out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the hoodlum?
Interesting choice of phrase...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Parsons ain't busting...
aha ! Well, that explains that - Good for Parsons. Some teams may pass on him - what that's saying? you can take a hoodlum out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the hoodlum?
Zombo said:
So?
Couch was a bust.
Bo was a Pro Bowler with a spectacular 5.4 ypc.
Luck was a 4-time Pro Bowler and a big winner.
Couch was less than ordinary. Threw more INTs than TDs. Never sniffed a Pro Bowl. Never a rating of at least 80.
Luck played like a #1 overall, Couch didn't play like anything close to it.
If you suck, then you get injured, you're still a bust.
Z
Couch was a NOT a bust, ....... it wasn't all his fault. His oline got po'd that the rookie started instead of the veteran. I watched it - they blocked entirely different for the veteran, and they weren't that good to begin with. His wr's were mediocre, offensive line let Couch get the hell beaten out of him on the snap.... the offensive line couldn't gen much of a running game. Northcutt?
https://factoryofsadness.co/2020/04/01/cleveland-browns-tim-couch-wasnt-bust/
Cleveland Browns: Tim Couch wasn’t a bust, no matter how you look at it
It also didn’t help that his two best receivers were a slot guy in Dennis Northcutt and a great number two receiver in Kevin Johnson forced to play number one. No wonder when he wasn’t being slaughtered by the defensive line, he didn’t have the best success throwing the ball.
Davis also showed his hand a bit as a head coach. Sure, he had a great run at the University of Miami, but he relied on former Hurricane players far too much, and built a team that was at best inconsistent, and at worst poorly built.
With the Browns, Davis had full control. Opting to take Gerard Warren over LaDanian Tomilson, despite the team’s desperate need for offensive playmakers. They also passed on Chad Johnson for Quincy Morgan in the same draft.
Then the team chose Green over Ed Reed and Javon Walker in 2002. Wanna talk about Kellen “No Knees” Winslow in 2004? No? I didn’t think so. In fact, the Browns didn’t draft a rookie offensive lineman until the 6th round in the 2000 NFL Draft. The first linemen taken in the first day (which covered the first three rounds back then) was Melvin Fowler in 2002. It would take the Browns FOUR years to draft a lineman in the first round of an NFL Draft in Jeff Faine. Faine was actually a good player, not a Hall of Famer but did his job.
Couch’s offensive line was abysmal. The best offensive lineman was Dave Wohlabaugh, and he was a center. The left tackle in 2002 was Ross Verba, more known for his scandals than his play. Though it all, the Browns only “big” addition through free agency was Ryan Tucker, a former starter on the Rams SuperBowl teams. When healthy he played well and was with the team until he left the league. Yet, the team rarely made plays to improve the offense. By the time they did it was too late for Couch.
His shoulder was shot, and all the progress he made from his rookie to his fourth season was washed away with steady and persistent unprotected hits.
It’s hard to call someone a bust when he produced and did something no other quarterback has done in 21-plus years in Cleveland; take the Browns to the playoffs.
aha ! Well, that explains that - Good for Parsons. Some teams may pass on him - what that's saying? you can take a hoodlum out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the hoodlum?
Couch was a NOT a bust, ....... it wasn't all his fault. His oline got po'd that the rookie started instead of the veteran. I watched it - they blocked entirely different for the veteran, and they weren't that good to begin with. His wr's were mediocre, offensive line let Couch get the hell beaten out of him on the snap.... the offensive line couldn't gen much of a running game. Northcutt?
https://factoryofsadness.co/2020/04/01/cleveland-browns-tim-couch-wasnt-bust/
Cleveland Browns: Tim Couch wasn’t a bust, no matter how you look at it
It also didn’t help that his two best receivers were a slot guy in Dennis Northcutt and a great number two receiver in Kevin Johnson forced to play number one. No wonder when he wasn’t being slaughtered by the defensive line, he didn’t have the best success throwing the ball.
Davis also showed his hand a bit as a head coach. Sure, he had a great run at the University of Miami, but he relied on former Hurricane players far too much, and built a team that was at best inconsistent, and at worst poorly built.
With the Browns, Davis had full control. Opting to take Gerard Warren over LaDanian Tomilson, despite the team’s desperate need for offensive playmakers. They also passed on Chad Johnson for Quincy Morgan in the same draft.
Then the team chose Green over Ed Reed and Javon Walker in 2002. Wanna talk about Kellen “No Knees” Winslow in 2004? No? I didn’t think so. In fact, the Browns didn’t draft a rookie offensive lineman until the 6th round in the 2000 NFL Draft. The first linemen taken in the first day (which covered the first three rounds back then) was Melvin Fowler in 2002. It would take the Browns FOUR years to draft a lineman in the first round of an NFL Draft in Jeff Faine. Faine was actually a good player, not a Hall of Famer but did his job.
Couch’s offensive line was abysmal. The best offensive lineman was Dave Wohlabaugh, and he was a center. The left tackle in 2002 was Ross Verba, more known for his scandals than his play. Though it all, the Browns only “big” addition through free agency was Ryan Tucker, a former starter on the Rams SuperBowl teams. When healthy he played well and was with the team until he left the league. Yet, the team rarely made plays to improve the offense. By the time they did it was too late for Couch.
His shoulder was shot, and all the progress he made from his rookie to his fourth season was washed away with steady and persistent unprotected hits.
It’s hard to call someone a bust when he produced and did something no other quarterback has done in 21-plus years in Cleveland; take the Browns to the playoffs.
MF is from Harrisburg. That's about as hood as an Easter bunny hat.
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Trevor Lawrence and Urban both flop In Jacksonville. That’s my prediction
Trevor Lawrence and Urban both flop In Jacksonville. That’s my prediction
Only if they are given less than 5 years to do something special. As we can see with Baker, you have to build a good team around the QB both sides of the ball.
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Parsons ain't busting...
aha ! Well, that explains that - Good for Parsons. Some teams may pass on him - what that's saying? you can take a hoodlum out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the hoodlum?
Zombo said:
So?
Couch was a bust.
Bo was a Pro Bowler with a spectacular 5.4 ypc.
Luck was a 4-time Pro Bowler and a big winner.
Couch was less than ordinary. Threw more INTs than TDs. Never sniffed a Pro Bowl. Never a rating of at least 80.
Luck played like a #1 overall, Couch didn't play like anything close to it.
If you suck, then you get injured, you're still a bust.
Z
Couch was a NOT a bust, ....... it wasn't all his fault. His oline got po'd that the rookie started instead of the veteran. I watched it - they blocked entirely different for the veteran, and they weren't that good to begin with. His wr's were mediocre, offensive line let Couch get the hell beaten out of him on the snap.... the offensive line couldn't gen much of a running game. Northcutt?
https://factoryofsadness.co/2020/04/01/cleveland-browns-tim-couch-wasnt-bust/
Cleveland Browns: Tim Couch wasn’t a bust, no matter how you look at it
It also didn’t help that his two best receivers were a slot guy in Dennis Northcutt and a great number two receiver in Kevin Johnson forced to play number one. No wonder when he wasn’t being slaughtered by the defensive line, he didn’t have the best success throwing the ball.
Davis also showed his hand a bit as a head coach. Sure, he had a great run at the University of Miami, but he relied on former Hurricane players far too much, and built a team that was at best inconsistent, and at worst poorly built.
With the Browns, Davis had full control. Opting to take Gerard Warren over LaDanian Tomilson, despite the team’s desperate need for offensive playmakers. They also passed on Chad Johnson for Quincy Morgan in the same draft.
Then the team chose Green over Ed Reed and Javon Walker in 2002. Wanna talk about Kellen “No Knees” Winslow in 2004? No? I didn’t think so. In fact, the Browns didn’t draft a rookie offensive lineman until the 6th round in the 2000 NFL Draft. The first linemen taken in the first day (which covered the first three rounds back then) was Melvin Fowler in 2002. It would take the Browns FOUR years to draft a lineman in the first round of an NFL Draft in Jeff Faine. Faine was actually a good player, not a Hall of Famer but did his job.
Couch’s offensive line was abysmal. The best offensive lineman was Dave Wohlabaugh, and he was a center. The left tackle in 2002 was Ross Verba, more known for his scandals than his play. Though it all, the Browns only “big” addition through free agency was Ryan Tucker, a former starter on the Rams SuperBowl teams. When healthy he played well and was with the team until he left the league. Yet, the team rarely made plays to improve the offense. By the time they did it was too late for Couch.
His shoulder was shot, and all the progress he made from his rookie to his fourth season was washed away with steady and persistent unprotected hits.
It’s hard to call someone a bust when he produced and did something no other quarterback has done in 21-plus years in Cleveland; take the Browns to the playoffs.
you can take a hoodlum out of the hood
Micah Parsons is from Harrisburg, PA.
Since I'm quite sure this couldn't have been a racist comment, I am glad to see someone finally pointing out that Newt Gingrich [also from Harrisburg] is single-handedly responsible for Harrisburg descending to hood-status. In fact, Micah is a family man and a saint when compared to the standard Newt has set for Harrisburg -- Micah hasn't cheated on his first two wives yet.
Long overdue, and very relevant to football!
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
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