Who Could be THE Bust of this draft?
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aha ! Well, that explains that - Good for Parsons. Some teams may pass on him - what that's saying? you can take a hoodlum out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the hoodlum?
Couch was a NOT a bust, ....... it wasn't all his fault. His oline got po'd that the rookie started instead of the veteran. I watched it - they blocked entirely different for the veteran, and they weren't that good to begin with. His wr's were mediocre, offensive line let Couch get the hell beaten out of him on the snap.... the offensive line couldn't gen much of a running game. Northcutt?
https://factoryofsadness.co/2020/04/01/cleveland-browns-tim-couch-wasnt-bust/
Cleveland Browns: Tim Couch wasn’t a bust, no matter how you look at it
It also didn’t help that his two best receivers were a slot guy in Dennis Northcutt and a great number two receiver in Kevin Johnson forced to play number one. No wonder when he wasn’t being slaughtered by the defensive line, he didn’t have the best success throwing the ball.
Davis also showed his hand a bit as a head coach. Sure, he had a great run at the University of Miami, but he relied on former Hurricane players far too much, and built a team that was at best inconsistent, and at worst poorly built.
With the Browns, Davis had full control. Opting to take Gerard Warren over LaDanian Tomilson, despite the team’s desperate need for offensive playmakers. They also passed on Chad Johnson for Quincy Morgan in the same draft.
Then the team chose Green over Ed Reed and Javon Walker in 2002. Wanna talk about Kellen “No Knees” Winslow in 2004? No? I didn’t think so. In fact, the Browns didn’t draft a rookie offensive lineman until the 6th round in the 2000 NFL Draft. The first linemen taken in the first day (which covered the first three rounds back then) was Melvin Fowler in 2002. It would take the Browns FOUR years to draft a lineman in the first round of an NFL Draft in Jeff Faine. Faine was actually a good player, not a Hall of Famer but did his job.
Couch’s offensive line was abysmal. The best offensive lineman was Dave Wohlabaugh, and he was a center. The left tackle in 2002 was Ross Verba, more known for his scandals than his play. Though it all, the Browns only “big” addition through free agency was Ryan Tucker, a former starter on the Rams SuperBowl teams. When healthy he played well and was with the team until he left the league. Yet, the team rarely made plays to improve the offense. By the time they did it was too late for Couch.
His shoulder was shot, and all the progress he made from his rookie to his fourth season was washed away with steady and persistent unprotected hits.
It’s hard to call someone a bust when he produced and did something no other quarterback has done in 21-plus years in Cleveland; take the Browns to the playoffs.
MF is from Harrisburg. That's about as hood as an Easter bunny hat.
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I never thought of Tim Couch as someone who was going to be elite, but I think he could have been a decent, mid-level starting QB for quite a while if he could have stayed healthy and had better talent around him. Regardless of how good we think he was or could have been, the dude deserves our respect. He got the shit kicked out of him but kept going back out, and I feel he really liked Cleveland and playing for the Browns.
He also married a NE Ohio playmate too.
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Couch wasn't a bust in the traditional sense, but I don't think he was even the best QB on the Browns when Holcomb was on the roster too...
Kelly Holcomb fooled everybody when he tore up the Steelers decimated secondary in a playoff game.
When they threw Couch to the curb they found out Holcomb wasn't any better. So they went out & got Jeff Garcia.
Kelly Holcomb fooled everybody when he tore up the Steelers decimated secondary in a playoff game.
When they threw Couch to the curb they found out Holcomb wasn't any better. So they went out & got Jeff Garcia.
He couldn't stay healthy.
Holcomb played a decent amount in three seasons for the Browns. In two of them, he had a QB rating in the 90s, the other in the 70s.
Couch, in his five seasons with the Browns, never had a QB rating higher than 77.6.
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Kelly Holcomb fooled everybody when he tore up the Steelers decimated secondary in a playoff game.
When they threw Couch to the curb they found out Holcomb wasn't any better. So they went out & got Jeff Garcia.
He couldn't stay healthy.
Holcomb played a decent amount in three seasons for the Browns. In two of them, he had a QB rating in the 90s, the other in the 70s.
Couch, in his five seasons with the Browns, never had a QB rating higher than 77.6.
He couldn't stay healthy.
Holcomb played a decent amount in three seasons for the Browns. In two of them, he had a QB rating in the 90s, the other in the 70s.
His record as a starter was 4-8, 4-9 counting the playoff game. Yes, he couldn't stay healthy here.
He went on to Buffalo (4-4), then Minnesota (0-3). Nothing stellar here or elsewhere.
I just think if a guy gets you to the playoffs (Couch) he shouldn't lose the starting job due to an injury in week 17. Butch fell in love with Holcomb based off one game and it basically sunk the Browns and Butch himself.
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He couldn't stay healthy.
Holcomb played a decent amount in three seasons for the Browns. In two of them, he had a QB rating in the 90s, the other in the 70s.
His record as a starter was 4-8, 4-9 counting the playoff game. Yes, he couldn't stay healthy here.
He went on to Buffalo (4-4), then Minnesota (0-3). Nothing stellar here or elsewhere.
I just think if a guy gets you to the playoffs (Couch) he shouldn't lose the starting job due to an injury in week 17. Butch fell in love with Holcomb based off one game and it basically sunk the Browns and Butch himself.
His record as a starter was 4-8, 4-9 counting the playoff game. Yes, he couldn't stay healthy here.
He went on to Buffalo (4-4), then Minnesota (0-3). Nothing stellar here or elsewhere.
I just think if a guy gets you to the playoffs (Couch) he shouldn't lose the starting job due to an injury in week 17. Butch fell in love with Holcomb based off one game and it basically sunk the Browns and Butch himself.
He lost the job because Davis and Arians knew Couch was somewhat limited as a QB.
Butch got sunk because he was given too much power and made stupid personnel decisions. Butch the GM got Butch the head coach in hot water.
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The more I think about it, and hearing that the 49ers spent like 3 first round picks to move into the #3 spot, my opinion is that if they take Mac Jones from Alabama at that slot, that it will be he who is the Big Bust.
My perception, right or wrong, is that he really has no more going for him than other Alabama QBs have. Convince me that he is heads and tails above the likes of Greg McElroy, or AJ McCarron, or even Tua who is not getting great reviews for his skills.
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you can take a hoodlum out of the hood
Micah Parsons is from Harrisburg, PA.
Since I'm quite sure this couldn't have been a racist comment, I am glad to see someone finally pointing out that Newt Gingrich [also from Harrisburg] is single-handedly responsible for Harrisburg descending to hood-status. In fact, Micah is a family man and a saint when compared to the standard Newt has set for Harrisburg -- Micah hasn't cheated on his first two wives yet.
Long overdue, and very relevant to football!
Micah Parsons is from Harrisburg, PA.
Since I'm quite sure this couldn't have been a racist comment, I am glad to see someone finally pointing out that Newt Gingrich [also from Harrisburg] is single-handedly responsible for Harrisburg descending to hood-status. In fact, Micah is a family man and a saint when compared to the standard Newt has set for Harrisburg -- Micah hasn't cheated on his first two wives yet.
Long overdue, and very relevant to football!
analogy[əˈnaləjē]NOUN-
a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification."an analogy between the workings of nature*************************************************as in,"you can take a bad character away from bad characters, but you can't take the bad characteraway from the player".I know where he's from. But saying he has a son now etc, all fine , but Braylon Edwards had a daughter, etc,but still didn't get himself straightened out.It's about drafting for character - paying attention to red flags. Edwards, Manziel, Pharms (4th round lb), William Green, and whoever else I don't want to remember. Including character in the eval of a player you might draft is crucial.It's what the Browns do now. Micah Parsons will surely have a great career in the NFL if he really does have his head screwed on straight. "red flags" doesn't mean the player is going to be a disaster - a lot of guys turn their lives around. But to ignore the problems they had in college, lends itself to the failure of players in the NFL when they get big money.
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Micah Parsons is from Harrisburg, PA.
Since I'm quite sure this couldn't have been a racist comment, I am glad to see someone finally pointing out that Newt Gingrich [also from Harrisburg] is single-handedly responsible for Harrisburg descending to hood-status. In fact, Micah is a family man and a saint when compared to the standard Newt has set for Harrisburg -- Micah hasn't cheated on his first two wives yet.
Long overdue, and very relevant to football!
analogy[əˈnaləjē]NOUN-
a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification."an analogy between the workings of nature*************************************************as in,"you can take a bad character away from bad characters, but you can't take the bad characteraway from the player".I know where he's from. But saying he has a son now etc, all fine , but Braylon Edwards had a daughter, etc,but still didn't get himself straightened out.It's about drafting for character - paying attention to red flags. Edwards, Manziel, Pharms (4th round lb), William Green, and whoever else I don't want to remember. Including character in the eval of a player you might draft is crucial.It's what the Browns do now. Micah Parsons will surely have a great career in the NFL if he really does have his head screwed on straight. "red flags" doesn't mean the player is going to be a disaster - a lot of guys turn their lives around. But to ignore the problems they had in college, lends itself to the failure of players in the NFL when they get big money.
analogy[əˈnaləjē]NOUN-
a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification."an analogy between the workings of nature*************************************************as in,"you can take a bad character away from bad characters, but you can't take the bad characteraway from the player".I know where he's from. But saying he has a son now etc, all fine , but Braylon Edwards had a daughter, etc,but still didn't get himself straightened out.It's about drafting for character - paying attention to red flags. Edwards, Manziel, Pharms (4th round lb), William Green, and whoever else I don't want to remember. Including character in the eval of a player you might draft is crucial.It's what the Browns do now. Micah Parsons will surely have a great career in the NFL if he really does have his head screwed on straight. "red flags" doesn't mean the player is going to be a disaster - a lot of guys turn their lives around. But to ignore the problems they had in college, lends itself to the failure of players in the NFL when they get big money.
We at least do not have to worry about Parsons. So apply these bogus character concerns to someone we may be considering.
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Not really going to get into here but 2/5 of Couch's Oline had no business starting in the NFL, 1 was mostly used out of position (Shaun O hara) and the other two were serviceable at best.
William Green was a heavy-footed ball carrier who lacked elite between the tackles size yet didn't have "halfback" speed.
Andre' Davis never had more than 30 receptions once he left CLE save for a season in Houston with an equally bad Texans team.
Quincy Morgan was a 4th receiver on most teams NOT named the Browns.
Steve Heiden? Whoa... clone of Touchdown Tony!?! He was an inline blocker with soft hands that thrived off toughness and smarts because he lacked elite athletic ability.
There isn't a soul from the 2000-2003 squads that would start for the Browns on offense today, not a one. Ok, Maybe 2007 Shaun O'Hara. Beyond that? Closest we might find would be Northcutt in the slot but that's about it.
Tim Couch was as setup to fail as any QB I've seen in a long time. The man walked into Heinz field and gave us what would be our last win there in nearly 18 years. Then he turned around and dropped a couple clunkers. Whether he was good or sucked is something we'll never know because he wasn't given the supporting cast, coaching staff and time to demonstrate either one.
Tim Couch was as setup to fail as any QB I've seen in a long time.
Two words... David Carr.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I never thought of Tim Couch as someone who was going to be elite, but I think he could have been a decent, mid-level starting QB for quite a while if he could have stayed healthy and had better talent around him. Regardless of how good we think he was or could have been, the dude deserves our respect. He got the shit kicked out of him but kept going back out, and I feel he really liked Cleveland and playing for the Browns.
He also married a NE Ohio playmate too.
I never thought of Tim Couch as someone who was going to be elite, but I think he could have been a decent, mid-level starting QB for quite a while
I knew he and we were doomed as soon as Palmer said his throwing mechanics were fine and he only needed minor tweaks to his footwork and arm position.
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StadiumTalk.com has given a letter grade to every First overall pick in the Draft since 1936. The following are the ones that were, by their measure, the clear busts at the #1 spot. These are the guys they gave either Fs or D-s to, for one reason or another. Some never played, some were injured, some in the WWII/Korea era had career derailed by military service, some just sucked obviously. I didn't even include the Ds as those made some contribution:
Jay Berwanger
Sam Francis
George Cafego
Tom Harmon
Angelo Bertelli
Bob Fenimore
Harry Babcock
Bobby Garrett
Randy Duncan
Ernie Davis
Terry Baker
Ricky Bell
Tom Cousineau
Jeff George
Steve Emtman
Kijana Carter
Courtney Brown (but not Tim Couch...he got a D)
Jamarcus Russell
Sam Bradford. (Couch/Carr considered better)
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That same website gives the following opinions.....listing WHICH player should have been taken with the #1 overall pick instead of the guy that was taken (though sometimes they felt the right choice was made. I am listing them here going all the way back to 1960:
2020 Too early
2019 Too early
2018 Lamar Jackson over Baker Mayfield (I believe this will prove wrong)
2017 Mahomes over Myles Garrett ....fair enough
2016 Derrick Henry over Jared Goff
2015 Marcus Peters over Jameis Winston
2014 Khalil Mack over Clowney
2013 Travis Kelce over Eric Fisher
2012 Russell Wilson over Andrew Luck
2011 JJ Watt over Cam Newton
2010 Gronkowski over Sam Bradford
2009 Matt Stafford....stick with him
2008 Matt Ryan over Jake Long
2007 Adrian Peterson over Jamarcus Russell
2006 Mario Williams....stick with him
2005 Aaron Rodgers over Alex Smith
2004 Eli Manning....stick with him (even over BR)
2003 Troy Polamalu over Carson Palmer
2002 Ed Reed over David Carr
2001 Drew Brees over Michael Vick
2000 Tom Brady #199 over Courtney Brown
1999 Edgerrin James over Tim Couch (not McNabb?)
1998 Peyton Manning....stick with him
1997 Orlando Pace....stick with him
1996 Ray Lewis over Keyshawn Johnson
1995 Derrick Brooks over Kijana Carter
1994 Marshall Faulk over Dan Wilkinson
1993 Michael Strahan over Drew Bledsoe
1992 Desmond Howard over Steve Emtman (I can't believe he is the best they can come up with)
1991 Brett Favre over Russell Maryland
1990 Emmit Smith over Jeff George
1989 Troy Aikman.....stick
1988 Michael Irvin over Aundray Bruce
1987 Rod Woodson over Vinny Testaverde
1986 Charles Haley over Bo Jackson
1985 Bruce Smith.....stick
1984 Boomer Esiason over Irving Fryar
1983 John Elway....stick..or go with Dan Marino
1982 Marcus Allen over Kenneth Sims
1981 Lawrence Taylor (#2) over George Rogers
1980 Anthony Munoz over Billy Sims
1979 Joe Montana over Tom Cousineau
1978 Warren Moon over Early Campbell ???
1977 Tony Dorsett over Ricky Bell
1976 Leroy Selmon.....stick
1975 Walter Payton over Steve Bartkowski
1974 Jack Lambert over Too Tall Jones
1973 Dan Fouts over John Matuszak
1972 Franco Harris over Walt Patulski
1971 Jim Plunkett....stick
1970 Terry Bradshaw....stick
1969 OJ Simpson....stick
1968 Ron Yary....stick
1967 Alan Page over Bubba Smith
1966 Tommy Nobis....stick
1965 Dick Butkus over Tucker Frederickson
1964 Roger Staubach over Dave Parks (even though Staubach had to serve a 5 year tour of duty, though I may have said Paul Warfield)
1963 John Mackey over Terry Baker
1962 They have the Washington Redskins sticking with Ernie Davis, because, even though Davis died....the trade of him to the Browns netted them the HOFer Bobby Mitchell in return
1961 David Deacon Jones over Tommy Mason
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In 1992...to be fair, there were really no HOF players that came out of that draft. The best were a couple of DBs Darren Woodson and Troy Vincent.
In 2006 they picked Mario Williams...who was just OK. The best players in that draft were a couple of borderline HOF Offensive linemen: Jahri Evans and Andrew Whitworth.
In 1974 they could have perhaps chosen Mike Webster over Lambert.
In 2009, while Stafford has not been a winner, he has been productive, and really no one else out of that draft has proven any better.
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