The Savage Truth
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Zombo said:
Above average? Above average???? He was drafted THIRD OVERALL, who cares if he was above average. That is a "Franchise Player" pick ... he is no franchise player.You cannot continually drop the ball when you draft high in the first round. (and I'm talking about Savage, not Braylon)
Savage was one for four in the first round: Edwards is in no way or shape worth a #3 overall, Wimbley was drafted #13 overall and now he's worth, what? a fourth rounder? And he threw a first rounder AND a second rounder at Dallas to snare Brady Freaking Quinn who was dropping like a rock.
What was your argument again ... Alex Hall and Brodney Pool?
I must have missed the announcement ... is it IDIOT week around here?
Zombo
Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous but I'm with you on this one. Savage was a joke. He did nothing but draft players that couldn't start on any other team in the league and paid them a lot of money. I mean, he took Frye in the 4th round!!! And if it weren't for Savage letting him start for so long, he would be out of the league as well.
That's right, he took a short QB with zero arm strength and a very low IQ from The University of Akron, in the 4th round. Mind you, the team had tons of holes to fill at that point.
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Zombo said:
Above average? Above average???? He was drafted THIRD OVERALL, who cares if he was above average. That is a "Franchise Player" pick ... he is no franchise player.You cannot continually drop the ball when you draft high in the first round. (and I'm talking about Savage, not Braylon)
Savage was one for four in the first round: Edwards is in no way or shape worth a #3 overall, Wimbley was drafted #13 overall and now he's worth, what? a fourth rounder? And he threw a first rounder AND a second rounder at Dallas to snare Brady Freaking Quinn who was dropping like a rock.
What was your argument again ... Alex Hall and Brodney Pool?
I must have missed the announcement ... is it IDIOT week around here?
Zombo
Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous but I'm with you on this one. Savage was a joke. He did nothing but draft players that couldn't start on any other team in the league and paid them a lot of money. I mean, he took Frye in the 4th round!!! And if it weren't for Savage letting him start for so long, he would be out of the league as well.
That's right, he took a short QB with zero arm strength and a very low IQ from The University of Akron, in the 4th round. Mind you, the team had tons of holes to fill at that point.
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Zombo said:
Above average? Above average???? He was drafted THIRD OVERALL, who cares if he was above average. That is a "Franchise Player" pick ... he is no franchise player.You cannot continually drop the ball when you draft high in the first round. (and I'm talking about Savage, not Braylon)
Savage was one for four in the first round: Edwards is in no way or shape worth a #3 overall, Wimbley was drafted #13 overall and now he's worth, what? a fourth rounder? And he threw a first rounder AND a second rounder at Dallas to snare Brady Freaking Quinn who was dropping like a rock.
What was your argument again ... Alex Hall and Brodney Pool?
I must have missed the announcement ... is it IDIOT week around here?
Zombo
My argument wasn't that Savage was the man or the best GM in football. My argument was that he had a decent eye for evaluating talent and that he was a better GM then Matt Millen, which he is. And I backed that up by citing rookies he brought into the league and became servicible NFLers. I never said that Braylon was a cornerstone of a franchise but he is an above average WR and a much better WR then anyone on our roster now and better then any other WR that has been on the Browns since the return. Basically what I am saying is BRaylon wasn't a complete miss like ALOT of our previous first rounders before him. He did become a good pro unlike all our first rounders from 1999 - 2003
And Alex Hall and Pool were a very small part of my argument. But since you want to talk about them ... Pool when healthy had some good games, and is going to probably start on a good Jets team. Alex Hall and some BS picks just landed us a pro bowl corner with a couple years left in his tank so the Eagles, another very good team, must see something in him. I never once said any of these guys were pro bowlers (except the 4 that actually were) but they are solid NFL role players. And teams need role players as well.
And out of his 4 first rounders Quinn was the only one who was awful. After Wimbleys rookie year Browns fans loved Wimbley and Savage for drafting him. Granted he never built off his rookie year, but that could have been a product of poor coaching.
JT is obviously a stud and Braylon is a above average WR. Granted I understand your argument for Braylon not panning but to be a superstar, but look at our drafts pre savage ... none of our first rounders were anything but busts. So I would take a guy who can play above average at his position, and make a pro bowl here and there rather then a Tim Couch, Gerrad Warren, C. Brown, or Willie Green any day.
My whole argument was more or less why do people hate Savage so much. He did some good things. He also did his share of bad things. To put him in a class of Matt Millen though is stupid. If you want to put him in the Matt Millin Catagory good for you ... maybe it is idiots week around here. Don't come at me knocking me though for putting thought into a post. We are all Browns fans can't we play together and get along??
You are a typical bitter ass Browns fan still hating on a guy who has nothing to do with the team. You are probably the type of dude who's favorite player on his team is the back up QB.
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Zombo said:
Above average? Above average???? He was drafted THIRD OVERALL, who cares if he was above average. That is a "Franchise Player" pick ... he is no franchise player.You cannot continually drop the ball when you draft high in the first round. (and I'm talking about Savage, not Braylon)
Savage was one for four in the first round: Edwards is in no way or shape worth a #3 overall, Wimbley was drafted #13 overall and now he's worth, what? a fourth rounder? And he threw a first rounder AND a second rounder at Dallas to snare Brady Freaking Quinn who was dropping like a rock.
What was your argument again ... Alex Hall and Brodney Pool?
I must have missed the announcement ... is it IDIOT week around here?
Zombo
My argument wasn't that Savage was the man or the best GM in football. My argument was that he had a decent eye for evaluating talent and that he was a better GM then Matt Millen, which he is. And I backed that up by citing rookies he brought into the league and became servicible NFLers. I never said that Braylon was a cornerstone of a franchise but he is an above average WR and a much better WR then anyone on our roster now and better then any other WR that has been on the Browns since the return. Basically what I am saying is BRaylon wasn't a complete miss like ALOT of our previous first rounders before him. He did become a good pro unlike all our first rounders from 1999 - 2003
And Alex Hall and Pool were a very small part of my argument. But since you want to talk about them ... Pool when healthy had some good games, and is going to probably start on a good Jets team. Alex Hall and some BS picks just landed us a pro bowl corner with a couple years left in his tank so the Eagles, another very good team, must see something in him. I never once said any of these guys were pro bowlers (except the 4 that actually were) but they are solid NFL role players. And teams need role players as well.
And out of his 4 first rounders Quinn was the only one who was awful. After Wimbleys rookie year Browns fans loved Wimbley and Savage for drafting him. Granted he never built off his rookie year, but that could have been a product of poor coaching.
JT is obviously a stud and Braylon is a above average WR. Granted I understand your argument for Braylon not panning but to be a superstar, but look at our drafts pre savage ... none of our first rounders were anything but busts. So I would take a guy who can play above average at his position, and make a pro bowl here and there rather then a Tim Couch, Gerrad Warren, C. Brown, or Willie Green any day.
My whole argument was more or less why do people hate Savage so much. He did some good things. He also did his share of bad things. To put him in a class of Matt Millen though is stupid. If you want to put him in the Matt Millin Catagory good for you ... maybe it is idiots week around here. Don't come at me knocking me though for putting thought into a post. We are all Browns fans can't we play together and get along??
You are a typical bitter ass Browns fan still hating on a guy who has nothing to do with the team. You are probably the type of dude who's favorite player on his team is the back up QB.
My argument wasn't that Savage was the man or the best GM in football. My argument was that he had a decent eye for evaluating talent and that he was a better GM then Matt Millen, which he is. And I backed that up by citing rookies he brought into the league and became servicible NFLers. I never said that Braylon was a cornerstone of a franchise but he is an above average WR and a much better WR then anyone on our roster now and better then any other WR that has been on the Browns since the return. Basically what I am saying is BRaylon wasn't a complete miss like ALOT of our previous first rounders before him. He did become a good pro unlike all our first rounders from 1999 - 2003
And Alex Hall and Pool were a very small part of my argument. But since you want to talk about them ... Pool when healthy had some good games, and is going to probably start on a good Jets team. Alex Hall and some BS picks just landed us a pro bowl corner with a couple years left in his tank so the Eagles, another very good team, must see something in him. I never once said any of these guys were pro bowlers (except the 4 that actually were) but they are solid NFL role players. And teams need role players as well.
And out of his 4 first rounders Quinn was the only one who was awful. After Wimbleys rookie year Browns fans loved Wimbley and Savage for drafting him. Granted he never built off his rookie year, but that could have been a product of poor coaching.
JT is obviously a stud and Braylon is a above average WR. Granted I understand your argument for Braylon not panning but to be a superstar, but look at our drafts pre savage ... none of our first rounders were anything but busts. So I would take a guy who can play above average at his position, and make a pro bowl here and there rather then a Tim Couch, Gerrad Warren, C. Brown, or Willie Green any day.
My whole argument was more or less why do people hate Savage so much. He did some good things. He also did his share of bad things. To put him in a class of Matt Millen though is stupid. If you want to put him in the Matt Millin Catagory good for you ... maybe it is idiots week around here. Don't come at me knocking me though for putting thought into a post. We are all Browns fans can't we play together and get along??
You are a typical bitter ass Browns fan still hating on a guy who has nothing to do with the team. You are probably the type of dude who's favorite player on his team is the back up QB.
Zombo, just out of curiosity who would you have wanted to drafted in round 1 of the 2005 draft?? And be honest back then who did you want?
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to say savage is better than perhaps the worst ever GM in professional sports isn't saying much. phil missed on more picks than he hit, regardless of the round. for every one serviceable player he found, i'll name you 2 that are pumping gas or flipping burgers.
hitting top picks is easy, much easier than late rounders. JT was a can't miss pick.....rubin was good judgement.....EW has a good pick....DQ is not worthy of his slotting....any other picks still on this team? only 16 of his 30 picks as browns GM are still playing football, with 5-7 of those 16 actually contributing or starting.
so, yeah, i agree. he's better than millen. being better than xxxxing terrible is still not good by any means.
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Savage doesn't even belong in the same room as Mangini, Heckert or King Mike..2 years and no one has offered him a 2nd shot at GM..Why Not?,...because he sucked
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QUOTE (mopaji @ Apr 7 2010, 10:09 AM)
Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous but I'm with you on this one. Savage was a joke. He did nothing but draft players that couldn't start on any other team in the league and paid them a lot of money. I mean, he took Frye in the 4th round!!! And if it weren't for Savage letting him start for so long, he would be out of the league as well.
That's right, he took a short QB with zero arm strength and a very low IQ from The University of Akron, in the 4th round. Mind you, the team had tons of holes to fill at that point.
Zombo said:
He took Frye in the third round, actually.Zombo
--And you think I'm ridiculous ...?
MOPAJI
short? Frye is 6'4" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Frye http://www.nfl.com/players/charliefrye/profile?id=FRY448685
Stupid? http://www.armchairassociation.com/2008/04/25/wonderlic-me/
So, how much weight SHOULD the Wonderlic test carry in the world of quarterbacks? Let’s go through the Wonderlic scores of some of today’s quarterbacks and see how they play out:
Drew Henson 42
Alex Smith 40
Eli Manning 39
Brian Griese 39
Charlie Frye 38
Tony Romo 37
Drew Bledsoe 36
Matt Leinart 35
Kellen Clemens 35
Aaron Rodgers 35
Tom Brady 33
Steve Young 33
Joey Harrington 32
Patrick Ramsey 32
Sage Rosenfels 32
J.P. Losman 31
Matt Schaub 31
Phillip Rivers 30
Brady Quinn 29
Rex Grossman 29
Marc Bulger 29
Matt Hasselbeck 29
Troy Aikman 29
John Elway 29
Drew Brees 28
Peyton Manning 28
Kyle Boller 27
Ryan Leaf 27
Jay Cutler 26
Kyle Orton 26
Carson Palmer 26
Akili Smith 26
Ben Roethlisberger 25
Byron Leftwich 25
Chad Pennington 25
JaMarcus Russell 24
David Carr 24
Jason Campbell 23
Tim Couch 22
Trent Dilfer 22
Brett Favre 22
Michael Vick 20
Tarvaris Jackson 19
Bruce Gradkowski 19
Derek Anderson 19
A.J. Feeley 19
Daunte Culpepper 18
Aaron Brooks 17
Vinny Testeverde 17
Vince Young 16
Steve McNair 15
Randall Cunningham 15
Dan Marino 15
Terry Bradshaw 15
David Garrard 14
Donovan McNabb 14
Marcus Vick 11
Jeff George 10
Chris Leak 8
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So if we give you the low arm strenght and University of Akron as valid points, you're doing 2-5 for your post.
Kinda Phil Savage-esque, if I don't say.
Hope has two beautiful daughters: Their names are Anger and Courage. Anger that things are the way they are. Courage to make them the way they ought to be. - St. Augustine. Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps down new roads armed with nothing but their vision. - Ayn Rand -
QUOTE (mopaji @ Apr 7 2010, 10:09 AM)
Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous but I'm with you on this one. Savage was a joke. He did nothing but draft players that couldn't start on any other team in the league and paid them a lot of money. I mean, he took Frye in the 4th round!!! And if it weren't for Savage letting him start for so long, he would be out of the league as well.
That's right, he took a short QB with zero arm strength and a very low IQ from The University of Akron, in the 4th round. Mind you, the team had tons of holes to fill at that point.
Zombo said:
He took Frye in the third round, actually.Zombo
--And you think I'm ridiculous ...?
MOPAJI
short? Frye is 6'4" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Frye http://www.nfl.com/players/charliefrye/profile?id=FRY448685
Stupid? http://www.armchairassociation.com/2008/04/25/wonderlic-me/
So, how much weight SHOULD the Wonderlic test carry in the world of quarterbacks? Let’s go through the Wonderlic scores of some of today’s quarterbacks and see how they play out:
Drew Henson 42
Alex Smith 40
Eli Manning 39
Brian Griese 39
Charlie Frye 38
Tony Romo 37
Drew Bledsoe 36
Matt Leinart 35
Kellen Clemens 35
Aaron Rodgers 35
Tom Brady 33
Steve Young 33
Joey Harrington 32
Patrick Ramsey 32
Sage Rosenfels 32
J.P. Losman 31
Matt Schaub 31
Phillip Rivers 30
Brady Quinn 29
Rex Grossman 29
Marc Bulger 29
Matt Hasselbeck 29
Troy Aikman 29
John Elway 29
Drew Brees 28
Peyton Manning 28
Kyle Boller 27
Ryan Leaf 27
Jay Cutler 26
Kyle Orton 26
Carson Palmer 26
Akili Smith 26
Ben Roethlisberger 25
Byron Leftwich 25
Chad Pennington 25
JaMarcus Russell 24
David Carr 24
Jason Campbell 23
Tim Couch 22
Trent Dilfer 22
Brett Favre 22
Michael Vick 20
Tarvaris Jackson 19
Bruce Gradkowski 19
Derek Anderson 19
A.J. Feeley 19
Daunte Culpepper 18
Aaron Brooks 17
Vinny Testeverde 17
Vince Young 16
Steve McNair 15
Randall Cunningham 15
Dan Marino 15
Terry Bradshaw 15
David Garrard 14
Donovan McNabb 14
Marcus Vick 11
Jeff George 10
Chris Leak 8
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So if we give you the low arm strenght and University of Akron as valid points, you're doing 2-5 for your post.
Kinda Phil Savage-esque, if I don't say.
QUOTE (mopaji @ Apr 7 2010, 10:09 AM)
Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous but I'm with you on this one. Savage was a joke. He did nothing but draft players that couldn't start on any other team in the league and paid them a lot of money. I mean, he took Frye in the 4th round!!! And if it weren't for Savage letting him start for so long, he would be out of the league as well.
That's right, he took a short QB with zero arm strength and a very low IQ from The University of Akron, in the 4th round. Mind you, the team had tons of holes to fill at that point.
MOPAJI
short? Frye is 6'4" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Frye http://www.nfl.com/players/charliefrye/profile?id=FRY448685
Stupid? http://www.armchairassociation.com/2008/04/25/wonderlic-me/
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So if we give you the low arm strenght and University of Akron as valid points, you're doing 2-5 for your post.
Kinda Phil Savage-esque, if I don't say.
Forgive me, maybe I should have googled before I made valid points. The point is, Frye was aweful and it took all of 3 seconds of watching him to see he had zero NFL ability. And yes, he was stupid. Did you ever hear him speak or watch him play?
For the record, I said the same about Quinn and I don't find it surprising that both were shipped out of town. And to say my 2 for 5 is "Savage-esque" kind of solidifies my point. Savage was a bad GM and that's what this thread is about. It would be very hard to find somebody who thinks otherwise about him.
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I always liked Savage and the only thing that turned me against him was that dumba** move to pay DA big money instead of getting a 1 and a 3 for him. I knew then that DA was all smoke and mirrors for his 1 year of glory.
Coulda woulda shoulda but I do wonder what could have been if we let DA go for a 1 and a 3 2 years ago and how things might have been a lot different.
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For all you guys who thinks savage has a terrible eye for talent look at "King" Mikes drafts in seattle ...
Year 1999
RD 1 - Lamar King DE
RD 3 - Brock Huard
RD 3 - Karsten Bailey
RD 4 - Antonio Cochran
RD 5 - Floyd Wedderburn
RD 5 - Charlie Rogers
RD 6 - Steve Johnson
Year 2000
RD 1 - Shaun Alexander
RD 1 - Chris McIntosh
RD 2 - Ike Charlton
RD 3 - Darrell Jackson
RD 4 - Marcus Bell
RD 4 - Isiah Kacyvenski
RD 6 - James Williams
RD 6 - Tim Watson
RD 6 - John Hilliard
RD 1 - Koren Robinson
RD 1 - Steve Hutchinson
RD 2 - Ken Lucas
RD 3 - Heath Evans
RD 4 - Orlando Huff
RD 4 - Curtis Fuller
RD 4 - Floyd Womack
RD 5 - Alex Bannister
RD 6 - Josh Booty
RD 7 - Harold Blackmon
RD 7 - Dennis Norman
RD 7 Kris Kocurek
Year 2002
RD 1 - Jeremy Stevens
RD 2 - Maurice Morris
RD 2- Anton Palepoi
RD 3 - Kris Richard
RD 4 - Terreal Bierra
RD 5 - Rocky Bernard
RD 5 - Ryan Hannam
RD 5 - Matt Hill
RD 6 - Craig Jarrett
RD 7 - Jeff Kelly
Hopefully he does better here because those are some terrible draft classes.
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ya think thats worse than this?
2008 (Round Player College)
4 Beau Bell UNLV
4 Martin Rucker Missouri
6 Ahtyba Rubin Iowa State
6 Paul Hubbard Wisconsin
7 Alex Hall St. Augustine’s
2007
1 Joe Thomas Wisconsin
1 Brady Quinn Notre Dame
2 Eric Wright Nevada-Las Vegas
5 Brandon McDonald Memphis
6 Melila Purcell Hawaii
7 Chase Pittman Louisiana State
7 Syndric Steptoe Arizona
2006
1 Kamerion Wimbley Florida State
2 D’Qwell Jackson Maryland
3 Travis Wilson Oklahoma
4 Leon Williams Miami (FL)
4 Isaac Sowells Indiana
5 Jerome Harrison Washington State
5 DeMario Minter Georgia
6 Lawrence Vickers Colorado
6 Babatunde Oshinowo Stanford
7 Justin Hamilton Virginia Tech
2005
1 Braylon Edwards Michigan
2 Brodney Pool Oklahoma
3 Charlie Frye Akron
4 Antonio Perkins Oklahoma
5 David McMillan Kansas
6 Nick Speegle New Mexico
6 Andrew Hoffman Virginia
7 Jon Dunn Virginia Tech
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Zombo said:
A little more on these drafts...Hutchinson is a first ballot Hall of Famer, he got him with the 22nd pick.
Shaun Alexander rushed for 9,453 yards, scored 112 TDs, was a NFL MVP, set the single-season TD record, and has voted to the all-decade team ... he took him 19th.
Jeremy Stevens, Darrel Jackson, Rocky Bernard ... Super Bowl starters.
Many other key contributers.
You care to see how Heckert did in Philly?
Because I'd love to show you how Heckert did in Philly.
I mean seriously ... Hutch at #22 and Alexander at #19 and you criticize the man like you would have done better??
Zombo
You're reaching ... the combination of all of his picks listed above bore me. He left Andy Katzenmoyer on the table in 99' for crying out loud, lol.
Glad you found two safe picks though to color.
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Zombo said:
A little more on these drafts...Hutchinson is a first ballot Hall of Famer, he got him with the 22nd pick.
Shaun Alexander rushed for 9,453 yards, scored 112 TDs, was a NFL MVP, set the single-season TD record, and has voted to the all-decade team ... he took him 19th.
Jeremy Stevens, Darrel Jackson, Rocky Bernard ... Super Bowl starters.
Many other key contributers.
You care to see how Heckert did in Philly?
Because I'd love to show you how Heckert did in Philly.
I mean seriously ... Hutch at #22 and Alexander at #19 and you criticize the man like you would have done better??
Zombo
He drafted 2 studs that stick out on that list like a sore thumb. Everything else is nothing special. Stevens and Benard are nothing special, and DJ is a dime a dozen WR who never made a pro bowl. You are a big Bryalon hater and he is better then DJ so I don't know why you even mention DJ. Those Holmgram drafts were awful aise from hutch and shaun.
And who are the many other key contributors???
I hope to god Holmgram turns shit around or just stays quiet and lets Heckart draft.
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here are heckerts drafts as eagles GM I will post them for you. I cant find a list of undrafted rookie free agents he brought in. Which should also be factored in.
Brodrick Bunkley Florida State
2 Winston Justice USC
3 Chris Gocong Cal Poly
4 Max Jean-Gilles Georgia
4 Jason Avant Michigan
5 Jeremy Bloom Colorado
5 Omar Gaither Tennessee
6 LaJuan Ramsey USC
Kevin Kolb Houston
2 Victor Abiamiri Notre Dame
3 Stewart Bradley Nebraska
3 Tony Hunt Penn State
5 C.J. Gaddis Clemson
5 Brent Celek Cincinnati
6 Rashad Barksdale Albany State (NY)
7 Nate Ilaoa Hawaii
2 Trevor Laws Notre Dame
2 DeSean Jackson California
3 Bryan Smith McNeese State
4 Mike McGlynn Pittsburgh
4 Quintin Demps Texas-El Paso
4 Jack Ikegwuonu Wisconsin
6 Mike Gibson California
6 Joe Mays North Dakota State
6 Andy Studebaker Wheaton
7 King Dunlap Auburn
Jeremy Maclin Missouri
2 LeSean McCoy Pittsburgh
5 Cornelius Ingram Florida
5 Victor Harris Virginia Tech
5 Fenuki Tupou Oregon
6 Brandon Gibson Washington State
7 Paul Fanaika Arizona State
7 Moise Fokou Maryland
Defintly better then king Mikes drafts and on par or slightly better then Savage. I am definitly rooting for Holmgram/Heckert, but how much talent evaluators then Savage are they??
Also it is too early to call any of Savages picks future hall of famers because none of them have been in the league long enough, but you have to figure JT to be a sure thing if he continues to play the way he has to start off his career. If they inducted special teamers you would also have to say Cribbs would have a great chance being that he is arguably the best return man ever and is also great in coverage on special teams. He is a X-factor.
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here are heckerts drafts as eagles GM I will post them for you. I cant find a list of undrafted rookie free agents he brought in. Which should also be factored in.
Brodrick Bunkley Florida State
2 Winston Justice USC
3 Chris Gocong Cal Poly
4 Max Jean-Gilles Georgia
4 Jason Avant Michigan
5 Jeremy Bloom Colorado
5 Omar Gaither Tennessee
6 LaJuan Ramsey USC
Kevin Kolb Houston
2 Victor Abiamiri Notre Dame
3 Stewart Bradley Nebraska
3 Tony Hunt Penn State
5 C.J. Gaddis Clemson
5 Brent Celek Cincinnati
6 Rashad Barksdale Albany State (NY)
7 Nate Ilaoa Hawaii
2 Trevor Laws Notre Dame
2 DeSean Jackson California
3 Bryan Smith McNeese State
4 Mike McGlynn Pittsburgh
4 Quintin Demps Texas-El Paso
4 Jack Ikegwuonu Wisconsin
6 Mike Gibson California
6 Joe Mays North Dakota State
6 Andy Studebaker Wheaton
7 King Dunlap Auburn
Jeremy Maclin Missouri
2 LeSean McCoy Pittsburgh
5 Cornelius Ingram Florida
5 Victor Harris Virginia Tech
5 Fenuki Tupou Oregon
6 Brandon Gibson Washington State
7 Paul Fanaika Arizona State
7 Moise Fokou Maryland
Defintly better then king Mikes drafts and on par or slightly better then Savage. I am definitly rooting for Holmgram/Heckert, but how much talent evaluators then Savage are they??
Also it is too early to call any of Savages picks future hall of famers because none of them have been in the league long enough, but you have to figure JT to be a sure thing if he continues to play the way he has to start off his career. If they inducted special teamers you would also have to say Cribbs would have a great chance being that he is arguably the best return man ever and is also great in coverage on special teams. He is a X-factor.
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Crennel isn't a bad coach. He's just not the type of guy you want as head coach.
Not to mention Romeo wanted to build a team a lot like Mangini is now but Savage wanted big, fast guys in skill positions regardless of their ability. It was a match made in complete hell and I will admit, I thought the Thomas/Quinn move was excellent at the time mostly because we got Thomas and Quinn should have been better than he is. But I didn't realize then just how bad he f'ed up this team's salary cap and how he mortgaged the future in order to move up with no real plan as to how to reclaim picks in the future. Mangini must have just shook his head when he saw the lack of skill and the contracts this team had when he arrived. I compare it to Barak and McCain running for president. Why would anybody want that job in those conditions? Mangini took it, and he busted his ass to correct it as fast as possible. Now Holmie is involved in a team that is much better off because of Mangini (who is not even a GM) and we have a legit franchise and future in this town again.
The 2007 season as exciting as it was, was nothing but a paper tiger of a football team. I can't remember a time when a team got by within an inch of their life so many times. Ball bouncing the right way etc. I loved it, but by no means saw a good roster or a foundation in place, especially on defense. Phil wanted flash and Romeo wanted IQ and character. I for one will side with the coach over the GM everytime. Phil just doesn't get it. He's a douche.
Good luck Philly. You have already made two questionable moves since you got that tool. McNabb could have gotten you much more in return and Hall is a 3rd and long pass rusher worth about the league minimum in salary and you lost Brown in the process. Then you threw in Gocong who Mangini has been eyeing since he entered the draft and who may very well be a 100+ tackle LB each year in a 3-4. Savage is a salesman and he gets people to listen, but he really has no clue how to build a football team. He gained all of his credibility with the Ravens and just how much did he deserve? I mean, they seem to be drafting and signing pretty well without him.
Not to mention Romeo wanted to build a team a lot like Mangini is now but Savage wanted big, fast guys in skill positions regardless of their ability. It was a match made in complete hell and I will admit, I thought the Thomas/Quinn move was excellent at the time mostly because we got Thomas and Quinn should have been better than he is. But I didn't realize then just how bad he f'ed up this team's salary cap and how he mortgaged the future in order to move up with no real plan as to how to reclaim picks in the future. Mangini must have just shook his head when he saw the lack of skill and the contracts this team had when he arrived. I compare it to Barak and McCain running for president. Why would anybody want that job in those conditions? Mangini took it, and he busted his ass to correct it as fast as possible. Now Holmie is involved in a team that is much better off because of Mangini (who is not even a GM) and we have a legit franchise and future in this town again.
The 2007 season as exciting as it was, was nothing but a paper tiger of a football team. I can't remember a time when a team got by within an inch of their life so many times. Ball bouncing the right way etc. I loved it, but by no means saw a good roster or a foundation in place, especially on defense. Phil wanted flash and Romeo wanted IQ and character. I for one will side with the coach over the GM everytime. Phil just doesn't get it. He's a douche.
Good luck Philly. You have already made two questionable moves since you got that tool. McNabb could have gotten you much more in return and Hall is a 3rd and long pass rusher worth about the league minimum in salary and you lost Brown in the process. Then you threw in Gocong who Mangini has been eyeing since he entered the draft and who may very well be a 100+ tackle LB each year in a 3-4. Savage is a salesman and he gets people to listen, but he really has no clue how to build a football team. He gained all of his credibility with the Ravens and just how much did he deserve? I mean, they seem to be drafting and signing pretty well without him.
Every word here is right on, imo. I NEVER liked Phil. I thought he was smug and annoying as a person. The only move he made that I was really behind was the drafting of Joe Thomas. ALL of the other first-round picks were dubious at the time and since. It was terrible the way he threw Romeo, a very decent, likable guy, under the bus towards the end. Basically, he made my team much worse, and I think it's amazing that Mangini managed to turn that roster, that salary cap, and those paltry draft picks into a team that could win four straight games.
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Zombo said:
First of all, DJ wasn't taken third overall you dumb shit.
Sure, in addition to making two of the absolute best picks of the decade he had some misses in there too ... but who doesn't?
Do you remember who you are comparing him to?
Did Holmgen trade a first round and second round pick for a QB who won three games in three years?
Did Holmgren take a player third overall who led the league in drops two years in a row? At least DJ started the Super Bowl for the team that drafted him ... Braylon is in New York!
Seriously man, Savage sucked ... say it out loud.
Holmgren took Seattle to the Super Bowl and Savage gave us a team that went 4-12 his last year and then started 1-11 the next, due to the massive amount of talent he brought in.
Zombo
You don't need to resort to name calling because you aren't able to formulate an opinion and instead keeping falling back on the same thing ... that Hutch and Shaun are great, but everyone else Holgram drafted as seahwaks GM pretty much sucked and he failed miserably at drafting everyone he picked but those 2 guys. Savage was a very average talent evaluator. Holmgram drafted terribly aside from Hutch and Shaun. And You are right everyone does have misses and I would rather a third overall pick turn out how Braylon turned out then be a complete miss which is what happened with all of our first round picks before Savage. And all you seem to do is focus on Braylon. If you look at the 2005 draft who would you have taken 3 overall? Personally the only guy I was drooling over in the first round of that draft was Merriman and he wasn't a top 5 caliber player. he was mid first rounder.
And another thing ... You are acting as if I think Savage is the greatest thing since slice bread. I just think he did an average job and didnt understand why people hate him so much. I want Holmgram/Heckert to suceed, but I wouldn't be suprised if they end up failing. Bottom line is we are never going to consistently be a good team without a franchise QB and Delhomme who is terrible, Seneca Wallace, and a QB we pick up in the third round isn't going to change any of that. We may have an average team that squeezes into the playoffs here and there, but we will never field a team that wins year in and year out until we have a franchise QB. Atleast Savage rolled the dice and traded back in to the first round to grab someone that had the potential to be a franchise QB (just a side note I never liked Quinn, but I understood the move and didn't hate on it when it happened)
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