Phil Savage Drafts
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The Saints got Vilma b/c the Jets realized that he doesnt fit a 3-4. RAC runs a 3-4. Vilma is not an option. Adalius Thomas is an OLB, always has been as far as I can tell. Even if he was capable of playing ILB, why would he want to? He was offered $20 guaranteed to play the position he likes for the Super Bowl champions. What do you think Phil shouldve done about that? Bart Scott never wanted to play here. He left before a serious offer was ever made. That was fairly well covered as I recall. Cato June was also available at one point. He's a great linebacker...if you're playing cover 2. But we dont.
If you want to play a 4-3, take that up with RAC and Lerner. As far as I can tell, Savage doesnt have much control over that. He needed 3-4 ILBs, and Bart Scott is the only one you've mentioned.
If you want to play a 4-3, take that up with RAC and Lerner. As far as I can tell, Savage doesnt have much control over that. He needed 3-4 ILBs, and Bart Scott is the only one you've mentioned.
So you're saying we would have needed to bench Clay Matthews if we went to a 4-3 alignment? Very interesting but I'm not sure he would have taken the news well that he's not a 4-3 LBer. Wanna bet he'd just say I can play LBer in ANY freakin scheme and prove it? And didn't Ray Lewis play in a 4-3 in college? Baltimore had a season where they used a 3-4 and he didn't didn't get benched Tupa so WHY do you think a solid 4-3 LBer can't handle a 3-4? If you're a stud - you're a stud. If you're limited to begin with it'll show up in what you can and cannot do. We don't have alot of flexible LBers currently serviceable from what I see.
Actually, we're using 4 man fronts right now. On 90% of the snaps vrs Indy we had 4 guys upfront with a hand down as the commentator alluded to on Sunday. Confining Peyton Manning's offense to just 3 points gave us a GREAT chance to win AND I dare say that's the BEST game I've seen D'Qwell Jackson play all season. If you taped the game - check out the 4-2 alignment we were in most of the day.
BTW, wasn't Adalius Thomas a 3-4 LBer? Didn't NE invite him to join in on a perfect regular season in 2007? We didn't need him either? Tupa, there's more than just 1 or 2 guys in the last 4 years that would have been better than Andra Davis as much as that pains you to hear for convenience of arguement. Not for nothing, but Teddy Bruschi was a down linemen in college as was Mike Vrabel so if you are the right prototype - you can adapt to anything. Shane Conlan never played in a 3-4 at Penn State - should Buffalo have refused to draft him for a LBer out of college that played in a 3-4?
One of the KEY players for Tennessee is FA LBer David Thornton. I think he could have adapted to any alignment to be brutally honest here. Mathias Kiwanka was starting at OLB when Osi Youmeanwhatever got injured so now Kiwanuka is back to lining up with a hand down If you have the RIGHT guy - he's gonna be flexible enough for formations to change. NE as those guys in Bruschi and Vrable. In fact, Vrable was actually worse when he played in Pittsburgh than when he played in NE. In the pros, he seems better standing up than putting a hand down. Do you need more examples? Jevon Kearse was a standup LBer at Florida and in the pros he plays with a hand down every play. Right guy? Jamir Miller transitioned from standup LBer to playing better with a hand down. Right guy? Bottom line: that's why they say take the best athlete available. When you have alot of these types - it's amazing how crerative and innovative you can be with chess matchups on Sundays.
- Tom F.
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Are you trying to argue that Vilma or June would be good 3-4 LBs, or are you trying to make a new list? It looks like you start out with the former and shift gears half way through.
If you think Vilma would make a good 3-4 LB, maybe you should tell Mangini. He dumped him because he didnt fit the scheme. Every Jet fan and commentator say it coming a year in advance.
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If you want to play a 4-3, take that up with RAC and Lerner. As far as I can tell, Savage doesnt have much control over that. He needed 3-4 ILBs, and Bart Scott is the only one you've mentioned.
So you're saying we would have needed to bench Clay Matthews if we went to a 4-3 alignment? Very interesting but I'm not sure he would have taken the news well that he's not a 4-3 LBer. Wanna bet he'd just say I can play LBer in ANY freakin scheme and prove it? And didn't Ray Lewis play in a 4-3 in college? Baltimore had a season where they used a 3-4 and he didn't didn't get benched Tupa so WHY do you think a solid 4-3 LBer can't handle a 3-4? If you're a stud - you're a stud. If you're limited to begin with it'll show up in what you can and cannot do. We don't have alot of flexible LBers currently serviceable from what I see.
Actually, we're using 4 man fronts right now. On 90% of the snaps vrs Indy we had 4 guys upfront with a hand down as the commentator alluded to on Sunday. Confining Peyton Manning's offense to just 3 points gave us a GREAT chance to win AND I dare say that's the BEST game I've seen D'Qwell Jackson play all season. If you taped the game - check out the 4-2 alignment we were in most of the day.
BTW, wasn't Adalius Thomas a 3-4 LBer? Didn't NE invite him to join in on a perfect regular season in 2007? We didn't need him either? Tupa, there's more than just 1 or 2 guys in the last 4 years that would have been better than Andra Davis as much as that pains you to hear for convenience of arguement. Not for nothing, but Teddy Bruschi was a down linemen in college as was Mike Vrabel so if you are the right prototype - you can adapt to anything. Shane Conlan never played in a 3-4 at Penn State - should Buffalo have refused to draft him for a LBer out of college that played in a 3-4?
One of the KEY players for Tennessee is FA LBer David Thornton. I think he could have adapted to any alignment to be brutally honest here. Mathias Kiwanka was starting at OLB when Osi Youmeanwhatever got injured so now Kiwanuka is back to lining up with a hand down If you have the RIGHT guy - he's gonna be flexible enough for formations to change. NE as those guys in Bruschi and Vrable. In fact, Vrable was actually worse when he played in Pittsburgh than when he played in NE. In the pros, he seems better standing up than putting a hand down. Do you need more examples? Jevon Kearse was a standup LBer at Florida and in the pros he plays with a hand down every play. Right guy? Jamir Miller transitioned from standup LBer to playing better with a hand down. Right guy? Bottom line: that's why they say take the best athlete available. When you have alot of these types - it's amazing how crerative and innovative you can be with chess matchups on Sundays.
- Tom F.
Mathias Kiwanka was starting at OLB when Osi Youmeanwhatever got injured so now Kiwanuka is back to lining up with a hand down If you have the RIGHT guy - he's gonna be flexible enough for formations to change.
FWIW, the Browns weren't too high on Kiwi as a 3-4 OLB. And I'm not sure many people were predicting that he'd be able to play 4-3 OLB.
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Think you forgot the exorcism of AFL championships speech somewhere in there.
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Never expected better from you Tim. GREAT contibutions to the board so far. Way to hang in there. Looking forward to your next insults. Now that the political board needed a babysitter or a shutdown - I feel so priviledged I get to deal with the colicky people that ruined that board. Lucky me!
Savage Nation defines reality as "over-the-top" while they have convinced themselves we're the 72 Dolphins without Don Shula but shhhhhhhh! Let them be heard. We a quick fix from paradise but that ain't rhetoric or jibberish. Meanwhile, the scorebaord reads the Browns are averaging 6 wins a year while our overall record in the Savage era for this extremely talented team is now 24-34. That's an average of 6 wins a year. Got me THERE kids!
- Tom F.
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Mathias Kiwanka was starting at OLB when Osi Youmeanwhatever got injured so now Kiwanuka is back to lining up with a hand down If you have the RIGHT guy - he's gonna be flexible enough for formations to change.
FWIW, the Browns weren't too high on Kiwi as a 3-4 OLB. And I'm not sure many people were predicting that he'd be able to play 4-3 OLB.
Aloysius said:
FWIW, the Browns weren't too high on Kiwi as a 3-4 OLB. And I'm not sure many people were predicting that he'd be able to play 4-3 OLB.I know - we have Kam Wimbley that noone has EVER complained about instead. Good point! Thanks for clearing THAT one up.You DO realize before Osi got hurt the play was to STANDUP Kiwanuka at OLBer in 2008.
And Tupa, you DO realize Vilma went to the SAME college using the SAME formations Ray Lewis and Vince Wilfork came from. BOTH guys can play in a 3-4 or 4-3 or they wouldn't have experienced the success rates they have thus far. Why wouldn't Vilma be able to play in a 3-4? That's what the Jets were running when they drafted him. Was he the Defensive Rookie of the Year in the AFC? In addition, you thinking Savage is outstanding - he took Leon Williams from guess where? Same college kid!
Like I said, if you're good enough as a LBer you can play in a 3-4. You just want more explanation so your Savage Nation buddies can cry rhetoric at me. I think it's explained considerably well because you just gave my explanation a deaf ear and re-asked the question a different way. Ray Lewis didn't play in a 3-4 in college nor did Leon Williams nor did Vince Wilfork - they just had the athletic versatility to be awesome for the style. As I explained, ALOT of guys now playing in 3-4s played in 4-3s in college like Mike Vrable. Teddy Bruschi was DE on the Desert Storm team and he was moved to an ILBer. All that info ain't convenient so you and someone like Timugen call it rhetoric.
And guys like Clay Matthews and Harry Carson could play in a 3-4 or a 4-3. If Vilma was a rookie of the year - I can say I think he's a talented LBer that can play in a 3-4 or a 4-3 with a great deal of confidence. I think football teams are better off drafting MORE versatile guys than the Wali Rainer types that are limited to 1 system over the other.
Another thing, if Leon Williams was too stupid to stay on the field in Miami's college schemes - is he REALLY a better LBer for us than someone like Vilma from the SAME college? Vilma's strength is instincts if you watch him play. He makes a ton of tackles at the line of scrimmage. Guess what scheme the NY Jets were running when they drafted him? A 3-4.
- Tom F. (The Pittsburgh Steeler fans love Phil Savage and why shouldn't they? They've never been this undefeated against us. But Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, we're gonna need pacifiers if I say that too loud.)
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Jesus, Flugel. You've taken this thing to nearly DA vs. BQ levels with the use of the word "nation". Next thing we know you'll be calling people Savage-fags.
I myself think Savage has done a pretty good job drafting and improving the personnel, though his strategy for doing some of it may not be so perfect.
You've got to keep this in mind...Romeo Crennel's defense isn't going to help any GM. It's not going to make any linebacker look like a star. The corners and safeties will always be hung out to dry in Crennel's cowardly, pillow defense.
I still retain judgement on Savage until we see his personnel maximized.
Among his many, many good moves, these are the only failures I see...
1.) D'Qwell Jackson, though a good smart young linebacker, doesn't belong in the 3-4.
2.) Maybe putting a little too much money into going for the "whole thing" right now.
3.) Donte Stallworth
4.) Signing DA instead of trading him for a 1st/3rd, or whatever he could have gotten.
That's about it. The jury is still out on Wimbley, and I don't blame him for not signing another corner. If Crennel woudl blitz once a year, our current corners wouldn't look so bad. Harrison's misuse isn't his fault, nor are Edwards' hands, nor are the injuries to Holly, Robaire, JJ, K2 previously, and Edwards previously. You can say what you want about he should have depth, but remember it's only his 4th year.
You can't expect a guy to build an amazign 53 man roster by his 4th year. I'd say he's done a lot more good than bad.
What do you think Savage's win-loss record would be with, say, Bill Cowher as head coach? His personnel might look a ton better then.
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Are you trying to argue that Vilma or June would be good 3-4 LBs, or are you trying to make a new list? It looks like you start out with the former and shift gears half way through.
If you think Vilma would make a good 3-4 LB, maybe you should tell Mangini. He dumped him because he didnt fit the scheme. Every Jet fan and commentator say it coming a year in advance.
Are you trying to argue that Vilma or June would be good 3-4 LBs, or are you trying to make a new list? It looks like you start out with the former and shift gears half way through.
If you think Vilma would make a good 3-4 LB, maybe you should tell Mangini. He dumped him because he didnt fit the scheme. Every Jet fan and commentator say it coming a year in advance.
That's funny because that's exactly what the Jets were running when they drafted him. You DO know he was defensive Rookie of the Year in the 3-4 scheme right? But here's some stuff about Vilma as you assure everyone Jackson, Davis and Williams are better LBers for our 3-4.
"In his final year, Vilma led the team in tackles for a second time with 127 (81 solo), notched a sack, forced one fumble, and recovered three fumbles. Vilma ended the year as a finalist for the Butkus Award. Along with his success on the field, Vilma was a three-time Academic All-Big East Conference. He received a Bachelor's degree in finance from the University of Miami's well-respected School of Business Administration.
Pre-draft measurables
4.54 40 Yard Dash
37 Inch Vertical
23 Bench Reps
6.67 Three-Cone Drill
4.20 Short Shuttle
10-foot-1 Broad Jump
New York Jets
Vilma was drafted by the Jets with the 12th selection in the 2004 NFL Draft.
2004
In 2004, Vilma was named as the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year by the Associated Press. During his rookie campaign, he recorded 108 tackles, two sacks, and three interceptions, including one which was returned for his first NFL touchdown.
2005
In 2005, Vilma led the NFL in tackles with 173, forced four fumbles, notched one fumble recovery, half a sack, and one interception. Vilma also replaced Zach Thomas at the 2006 Pro Bowl.
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Gee, you got me there!
- Tom F.
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To put it differently, we had what, 6 pro-bowl players last year? And that's before Rogers took one snap on the Browns, before Quinn took any legit playing time. And we also had a 1300 yard rusher who probably belonged there.
The personell is there, for the most part. Our linebacking group is the only place I will say that our weakness there is Savage's fault. The corners wouldn't be so bad if Crennel would blitz and Holly stayed healthy, and if JJ never got injured, we'd be fine at wR. Same with Robaire at DE and Tucker on the O-line.
Again, after 4 years, you just can't expect him to have enough depth to cover up all those injuries. He'd have to hit a homerun with every draft pick. And he probably would if Crennel would maximize his talent.
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NYT:
The Jets took Robertson with the fourth pick in the 2003 draft, but he struggled when Coach Eric Mangini installed the 3-4 scheme after arriving in 2006. So did Vilma, who made his exit Friday, going to New Orleans for an undisclosed draft pick.
Sporting News:
Vilma was on the road to stardom in his first two seasons after being the 12th overall pick in the 2004 draft out of Miami (Fla.). He fell out of favor when Eric Mangini took over as coach in 2006 and installed a 3-4 defense; Vilma is better suited to playing in the middle of a 4-3 scheme.
ESPN.com:
Vilma, who missed the last nine weeks of last season with an injured right knee, saw his production decline the last two seasons after coach Eric Mangini took over and installed a 3-4 defensive scheme.
NY Daily News:
Jonathan Vilma's days with the Jets are numbered.
The popular linebacker, whose star has dimmed in two seasons under Eric Mangini, has received permission from the Jets to shop himself for a potential trade, the Daily News has learned. It doesn't mean a trade is a certainty, but it's a tacit acknowledgement from both sides that Vilma and Mangini's 3-4 scheme aren't a match.
NOLA.com headline:
New Orleans Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma welcomes return to 4-3 defense
Footballguys.com:
With his speed and tenacity, Vilma was a perfect fit in the Jets 4-3 defense which didn't burden him with a great deal of responsibility and allowed him to simply make his way to the ball. In '06 the Jets new/current coaching staff came into the picture, bringing with it a 3-4 defensive scheme in which Vilma was a square peg in a round hole. With too many responsibilities away from the ball and too much thinking, the new scheme simply didn't play to the strength of Vilma's game. As a result he was uncomfortable, unhappy and far less productive.
He played well in Donnie Henderson's 3-4, which uses MLBs very differently than the 3-4 run by Mangini or Crennel. Some people dont even consider it similar to other 3-4s at all, Vilma included. Here is Vilma before the 2007 season:
This will be my second year in a '3-4' defense, a '3-4' scheme.
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Let me attempt to fill in for Flugs on this one....
Rhetoric.
Hyperbole.
Rhetoric?
<insert King James Bible>
Hyperbole.
Hyperbole.
<insert War and Peace>
Rhetoric?
<insert Encyclopedia Britannica>
Hyperbole?
Hyperbole.
Never expected better from you Tim. GREAT contibutions to the board so far. Way to hang in there. Looking forward to your next insults. Now that the political board needed a babysitter or a shutdown - I feel so priviledged I get to deal with the colicky people that ruined that board. Lucky me!
Savage Nation defines reality as "over-the-top" while they have convinced themselves we're the 72 Dolphins without Don Shula but shhhhhhhh! Let them be heard. We a quick fix from paradise but that ain't rhetoric or jibberish. Meanwhile, the scorebaord reads the Browns are averaging 6 wins a year while our overall record in the Savage era for this extremely talented team is now 24-34. That's an average of 6 wins a year. Got me THERE kids!
- Tom F.
Never expected better from you Tim. GREAT contibutions to the board so far. Way to hang in there. Looking forward to your next insults. Now that the political board needed a babysitter or a shutdown - I feel so priviledged I get to deal with the colicky people that ruined that board. Lucky me!
Savage Nation defines reality as "over-the-top" while they have convinced themselves we're the 72 Dolphins without Don Shula but shhhhhhhh! Let them be heard. We a quick fix from paradise but that ain't rhetoric or jibberish. Meanwhile, the scorebaord reads the Browns are averaging 6 wins a year while our overall record in the Savage era for this extremely talented team is now 24-34. That's an average of 6 wins a year. Got me THERE kids!
- Tom F.
Jesus, Flugs....have a drink and un-bunch your panties.
I was just givin' ya a hard time, man.
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NYT:
The Jets took Robertson with the fourth pick in the 2003 draft, but he struggled when Coach Eric Mangini installed the 3-4 scheme after arriving in 2006. So did Vilma, who made his exit Friday, going to New Orleans for an undisclosed draft pick.
Sporting News:
Vilma was on the road to stardom in his first two seasons after being the 12th overall pick in the 2004 draft out of Miami (Fla.). He fell out of favor when Eric Mangini took over as coach in 2006 and installed a 3-4 defense; Vilma is better suited to playing in the middle of a 4-3 scheme.
ESPN.com:
Vilma, who missed the last nine weeks of last season with an injured right knee, saw his production decline the last two seasons after coach Eric Mangini took over and installed a 3-4 defensive scheme.
NY Daily News:
Jonathan Vilma's days with the Jets are numbered.
The popular linebacker, whose star has dimmed in two seasons under Eric Mangini, has received permission from the Jets to shop himself for a potential trade, the Daily News has learned. It doesn't mean a trade is a certainty, but it's a tacit acknowledgement from both sides that Vilma and Mangini's 3-4 scheme aren't a match.
NOLA.com headline:
New Orleans Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma welcomes return to 4-3 defense
Footballguys.com:
With his speed and tenacity, Vilma was a perfect fit in the Jets 4-3 defense which didn't burden him with a great deal of responsibility and allowed him to simply make his way to the ball. In '06 the Jets new/current coaching staff came into the picture, bringing with it a 3-4 defensive scheme in which Vilma was a square peg in a round hole. With too many responsibilities away from the ball and too much thinking, the new scheme simply didn't play to the strength of Vilma's game. As a result he was uncomfortable, unhappy and far less productive.
He played well in Donnie Henderson's 3-4, which uses MLBs very differently than the 3-4 run by Mangini or Crennel. Some people dont even consider it similar to other 3-4s at all, Vilma included. Here is Vilma before the 2007 season:
This will be my second year in a '3-4' defense, a '3-4' scheme.
NYT:
Sporting News:
ESPN.com:
NY Daily News:
NOLA.com headline:
Footballguys.com:
He played well in Donnie Henderson's 3-4, which uses MLBs very differently than the 3-4 run by Mangini or Crennel. Some people dont even consider it similar to other 3-4s at all, Vilma included. Here is Vilma before the 2007 season:
John Abraham and Dwayne Robertson played in a 3-4 for the Jets BEFORE Mangini as did Robertson. He was drafted to play NT.
Again though Leon Wiliams AND Ray Lewis AND Jon Vilma all played at the U of Miami as did Vince Wilfork and NONE of them played in a 3-4 until the pros and did well.
What you're leaving out is Vilma had a knee injury in 2007. But that's what you always do in your political arguements tooo is you leave out important pieces of info to suit your side of an arguement so I'm just wasting toime. Keep on pretending the RIGHT guys couldn't play in either system.
Vrable played in a 4-3 in college - did great in a 3-4 in NE.
Clay Matthews could play in either scheme.
Harry Carson played in a 3-4 and a 4-3 and was great at both.
Brsuchi was a DE in college and an ILBer in a 3-4 in the pros.
It's called drafting the right guys.
Vilma was AFC Rookie of the Year.
Not sure WHEN the Jets stopped their 3-4 prior to Mangini but just a reminder John Abraham was playing the elephant in a 3-4 while Roberston's position was Nose Tackle. Remember the Jets beating SD and then playing Pitt in the post season? They ran a 3-4. That's not convenient to this debate because you read a columnist thinking Mangini introduced a 3-4 to the NY Jets. Hard to argue with you when you're acting like Christopher Columbus telling the native indians he discovered America. Whatever you want to hear Tupa.
- Tom F.
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So the NYT, ESPN, Sporting News, NOLA, Football Guys, and NY Daily News are all following my political board tricks here? I dont get it, Flugs. You say he wouldve fit our system. I post the opinion of every major source I can find saying that he didnt fit Mangini's 3-4. You tell me I'm Christopher Columbus??
And how on earth do you think his injury HELPS your argument?? His big dropoff was from 05 to 06. He barely played at all in '07. And the Jets thought his injury would have long-term affects. But you wanted Phil to sign him? Sorry that I left out the injury. I can see how that makes him more a attractive player.
wtf?
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Tupa's right: Vilma isn't a 3-4 linebacker.
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So the NYT, ESPN, Sporting News, NOLA, Football Guys, and NY Daily News are all following my political board tricks here? I dont get it, Flugs. You say he wouldve fit our system. I post the opinion of every major source I can find saying that he didnt fit Mangini's 3-4. You tell me I'm Christopher Columbus??
And how on earth do you think his injury HELPS your argument?? His big dropoff was from 05 to 06. He barely played at all in '07. And the Jets thought his injury would have long-term affects. But you wanted Phil to sign him? Sorry that I left out the injury. I can see how that makes him more a attractive player.
wtf?
So the NYT, ESPN, Sporting News, NOLA, Football Guys, and NY Daily News are all following my political board tricks here? I dont get it, Flugs. You say he wouldve fit our system. I post the opinion of every major source I can find saying that he didnt fit Mangini's 3-4.
wtf?
LOL! Just busting your balls about Columbus.
I think GOOD ILBers are flexible. Ray Lewis and Leon Williams went to the same school right? They both went to pro teams that have used 3-4s. Ratbirds have used both a 4-3 and a 3-4. Lewis was solid enough for both.
I thought that Jets team that almost beat Pitt without a healthy John Abraham had a nice D. They used a 3-4 - maybe not Manigini's version but they used it. Roberstson was drafted to play Nose Tackel Tups. Vilma hurt his knee in 2007 and never fully recovered in 2007. I think it was more that than what the column sists were saying.
Back to the point of the WHOLE arguement. After 4 years of Savage we should have betetr LBers for a 3-4. Maybe they'll prove me wrong today.
- Tom F.
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I'm thinking Lerner should stick with Phil. I think his eye for talent is better than average. I think there is adequate talent here and with the right coaching, we'll be competitive and even a 10 win team.
Savage + Schottenheimer is my vote. (Romeo just called timeout, down 19, the Titans have the ball, with 1:53 left in the game. Titans fans boing confusingly. Pffft).
D. Jackson had a great game today.
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So the NYT, ESPN, Sporting News, NOLA, Football Guys, and NY Daily News are all following my political board tricks here? I dont get it, Flugs. You say he wouldve fit our system. I post the opinion of every major source I can find saying that he didnt fit Mangini's 3-4.
wtf?
LOL! Just busting your balls about Columbus.
I think GOOD ILBers are flexible. Ray Lewis and Leon Williams went to the same school right? They both went to pro teams that have used 3-4s. Ratbirds have used both a 4-3 and a 3-4. Lewis was solid enough for both.
I thought that Jets team that almost beat Pitt without a healthy John Abraham had a nice D. They used a 3-4 - maybe not Manigini's version but they used it. Roberstson was drafted to play Nose Tackel Tups. Vilma hurt his knee in 2007 and never fully recovered in 2007. I think it was more that than what the column sists were saying.
Back to the point of the WHOLE arguement. After 4 years of Savage we should have betetr LBers for a 3-4. Maybe they'll prove me wrong today.
- Tom F.
LOL! Just busting your balls about Columbus.
I think GOOD ILBers are flexible. Ray Lewis and Leon Williams went to the same school right? They both went to pro teams that have used 3-4s. Ratbirds have used both a 4-3 and a 3-4. Lewis was solid enough for both.
I thought that Jets team that almost beat Pitt without a healthy John Abraham had a nice D. They used a 3-4 - maybe not Manigini's version but they used it. Roberstson was drafted to play Nose Tackel Tups. Vilma hurt his knee in 2007 and never fully recovered in 2007. I think it was more that than what the column sists were saying.
Back to the point of the WHOLE arguement. After 4 years of Savage we should have betetr LBers for a 3-4. Maybe they'll prove me wrong today.
- Tom F.
Do you remember Ray lewis bitching up a storm when they were playing a 3-4? Couldn't roam and make plays.. instead got locked up with guards and had a bad year>>>> Ray lewis isn't a great 3-4 LB imo... as to savage's lb drafts....he has atleast tried to get lb's...Jackson,wim, hall, and a slew of fa's...i'm sure that plays into your point....what I like is he see's the Problem...No?
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I'm thinking Lerner should stick with Phil. I think his eye for talent is better than average. I think there is adequate talent here and with the right coaching, we'll be competitive and even a 10 win team.
Savage + Schottenheimer is my vote. (Romeo just called timeout, down 19, the Titans have the ball, with 1:53 left in the game. Titans fans boing confusingly. Pffft).
D. Jackson had a great game today.
I'm thinking Lerner should stick with Phil. I think his eye for talent is better than average. I think there is adequate talent here and with the right coaching, we'll be competitive and even a 10 win team.
D. Jackson had a great game today.
That was the best I've ever seen him play so is that the rule or the exception? Sure would be nice if we ONLY needed to replace Andra Davis because we ALSO need a bigtime RB, right side upgrade on the oline (bad stuff this year), WR opposite Edwards, and an x-factor pass rusher. Wimbley had 1 nice pass rush but the key word in that sentence is 1. We also need to think about age/upside at Center and at Willie McGinest's spot. Hall impressed me this year and I forgot him in some of my rants against this last draft. Could it hurt to play Beau Bell over Andra Davis right about now? What would we lose in doing so?
I'm arriving at the point where if we land Cowher - I won't MIND what we do at the GM spot. At least we were all in unison that RAC sucks in Cleveland. I never argued against his departure - I just wanted to make sure we got all of the staff infection this time around. A prescription of Bill Cowher or even Marty would really release alot of the ugly venom I've had lately. That doesn't mean I'm a rah rah Savage guy at all. I'm still not - just means bringing on Marty or Cowher will dot this i and cross this t about whether Savage can
I'm just so sick of debating WHY we suck all the time. Trust me when I tell you I'd rather be exchanging high 5s and summarizing Ws with "wasn't that pretty freakin cool to see Eroc Wright take Eli's pass 92 yards for the game sealing score?"
I think we deserve SO MUCH better than ending every season arguing over why we suck and who is most at fault. Been there, done that.
I'm wrong alot - just not this time. Only kidding!The kinder, gentler version of Tom F.
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