Jones vs. Lerner
-
nmills gave a link on another thread to this article, but I thought it perhaps deserved its own separate thread. Here is the quote that Jones apparently made:
"Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and horse trainer D. Wayne Lukas are friends and kindred spirits, Lukas, the first trainer to earn more than $100 million in purses, wants to apply Jones’ bold marketing vision to the fading sport of horse racing. Like Jones, Lukas runs into obstacles presented by the fundamental structure of the sport. “I talked to Jerry Jones, and he said if the league turned him loose, he’d make so much more money because he could do all kind of innovative things,” Lukas told the Baltimore Sun. “But when he gets in the room with other owners, he has to look out for Cleveland. In horse racing, everybody looks out for their own selfish interests. We’ve got to get under one umbrella.” The Lerner family has owned the Browns franchise since it came back into the league as an expansion team in 1999. In that time, the Browns are 59-117 with one playoff game".
First off, it is somewhat hearsay..."Wayne Lukas said that Jerry Jones said blah, blah, blah". Secondly, even if Lukas did quote Jones accurately, what Jones said does not seem to make any sense. Can any of you make out what Jones is trying to say? Is he saying "I want to look out for my own selfish interests, but a guy like the owner of the Browns says we have to get under one umbrella, thus he impedes my ability to be totally selfish" or is Jones saying "The NFL needs to be under one umbrella, but a guy like the owner of the Browns only looks out for his own selfish interests".
I tend to think it is the first. Jones is notorious for being selfish. He is the one that has wanted to undo the revenue sharing system that has really made the NFL successful...even down to wanting to keep all the money for himself for jersey sales.
(I suspect deep down that he would really like to undo revenue sharing and also undo the salary cap because I think he thinks of his team as being the Yankees of football and that they could make a lot more money than anyone else and spend a lot more money than anyone else).
Of course, here is the deal that I doubt that Lerner has failed to think through: If you undo the salary cap and revenue sharing, then Dallas becomes a midsize market that really wouldn't compete with the likes of team in NYC, Chicago, Washington etc.....markets that are much larger than Dallas (including Houston in the same state). Also, rest assured, he would not have to compete against the likes of a smaller market team like the Jacksonville Jaguars....but against the "Los Angeles Jaguars".
So, my philosophy when it comes down to a drunken fool like Jerry Jones is: be careful what you ask for, you might get it. Jone's team has not been much of a success on the field. Until this past year when they beat the Eagles in a playoff game, his team had gone longer than the Browns before winning a playoff game.
-
Here are some facts on the Cleveland market ranking:
9. MARKET SIZE
City Population: 450,560
Metropolitan Area Population: 2,096,471 (Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor)
Greater Metro Area Population: 2,945,831 (including Akron)
City size ranking: #40 in US / #22 in NFL
Metro area size ranking: #25 in US / #24 in NFL
Greater Metro area size ranking: #16 in US / #18 in NFL
Source: US Census Bureau 2005 and 2007
Designated Market Area (DMA): 1,524,930 TV homes / 1.332% of US
DMA ranking: #17 in US / #18 in NFL
Source: Nielsen 200
The most important ranking is the DMA ranking as that is television market ranking, and the NFL is all about the TV market rankings.
-
Plus, on this point, I don't know why Jones would point out Cleveland as a "small market" team that he would have to "look out for". ALL of the following NFL markets are smaller than Cleveland:
St. Louis
Pittsburgh
Charlotte
Indianapolis
Baltimore
San Diego
Nashville
Kansas City
Cincinnatti
Jacksonville
New Orleans
Buffalo
Green Bay
Parenthetically, there are a number of markets out there that do not have an NFL team that are bigger than some of the above. Excluding "tiny" Green Bay the following non-NFL markets (using Neilsen DMA rankings) are all larger than the likes of Buffalo or New Orleans:
Los Angeles
Orlando
Sacramento
Portland
Raleigh
Hartford
Salt Lake City
Greeneville/Spartanburg
San Antonio
Birmingham
-
I really have no idea what the author is trying to say. the paragraph is contradictory. First, it says that Jerry Jones could make more money and be more popular if it weren't for the majority of the other owners having to vote on certain things. Then, the point is made that in horse racing, everyone is looking out for their own interests and there is no consensus, but there should be in order to increase popularity. Makes no sense.
-
off-season chatter often bores me . This article is no exception .
-
Zombo said:
Jones still doesn't get what is so great about the NFL. The revenue-sharing and salary cap gives all of the franchises opportunities to remain relevant and contend, it's the best sports system in the world.I guess he would prefer it to be like baseball where the Red Sox, Yankees and maybe the Cubs get ratings and the Royals and Pirates remain horrible for all eternity.
We just had one of the highest-rated sports events of all time and it featured ... NEW ORLEANS and INDIANAPOLIS. Now in Jerry's world, those two teams would be the Pirates and Royals and we'd get to watch the Cowboys and Patriots in the Super bowl every single year.
Oh wait ... make that Giants and Patriots ... because, as we all know, even with all their glamour and advantages ... the Cowboys have won only one wild card game in 15 years. Maybe that's why he doesn't want to "support" the other markets ... they keep beating his ass.
Zombo
You are dead square right Zombo. Why does Jones think he would really have an advantage over other teams in other markets if it were a free for all in spending on players? The Yankees have the advantage over other teams because of their local revenues, and they have that advantage because the New York area is 3 times larger than any other market except maybe LA and Chicago. Dallas is not New York. Its really just a big cow town.
-
Im still trying to figure out how horse racing would innovate football.
-
maybe jones wants to have wet t shirt contests before games but knows that it is unfair competition because the weather in cleveland would make it dangerous
-
Im still trying to figure out how horse racing would innovate football.
Im still trying to figure out how horse racing would innovate football.
I think it was vice versa: what could horse racing do that the NFL is doing to reinvigorate that sport?
Well here is a clue:
Create a horse racing league that has horse racing teams that represent certain cities and race against other cities teams.
Difficult to do in what is considered an "individual" sport. Perhaps golf, boxing, and tennis could do the same.
(though I think at one time there was a Team Tennis league")
And, in checking, I see that there actually still is a Team Tennis League. I knew there had been one. Elton John wrote Philadelphia Freedom about it. It apparently still exists, but you sure never hear about it. See the link:
-
Zombo said:
Jones still doesn't get what is so great about the NFL. The revenue-sharing and salary cap gives all of the franchises opportunities to remain relevant and contend, it's the best sports system in the world.I guess he would prefer it to be like baseball where the Red Sox, Yankees and maybe the Cubs get ratings and the Royals and Pirates remain horrible for all eternity.
We just had one of the highest-rated sports events of all time and it featured ... NEW ORLEANS and INDIANAPOLIS. Now in Jerry's world, those two teams would be the Pirates and Royals and we'd get to watch the Cowboys and Patriots in the Super bowl every single year.
Oh wait ... make that Giants and Patriots ... because, as we all know, even with all their glamor and advantages ... the Cowboys have won only one wild card game in 15 years. Maybe that's why he doesn't want to "support" the other markets ... they keep beating his ass.
Zombo
Amen, Z. Jones should be shot for even suggesting the NFL follow the MLB model. Green Bay would be toast under that scenario. Fortunately, the NFL is a one man, one (owner) vote league- And Jones will get shot down by plenty, he could muster maybe 5 votes (I'm betting the Maras would oppose abolishing revenue sharing). Speaking of- that's why I can't get too excited about baseball- there's NO competitive balance. Until there's a hard salary cap, count me uninterested. The Yankees can't buy a pennant EVERY year, but they damn sure can field a competitive team every year, outspending small markets 4-1 or more.
Gips may find this trivia interesting- Answers in the next post.....
When's the last time the Yankees had a losing record?
How many seasons have the Yankees had a losing record since they moved to New York in 1903, 107 years ago?
-
A-1: 18 years ago, 1992.
A-2: 21, and in 9 of those seasons, they were 10 games under .500 or less. So historically, on average they've had a real stinker of a season once every 10 years or so- and if we toss out the pre-1920 records, it's even less than that. I rest my case.
-
I think you guys are reading it all wrong.
I think it means that Jones understands why revenue sharing is important.
This quote from Lucas is what supports my take.
"In horse racing, everybody looks out for their own selfish interests. We’ve got to get under one umbrella.”
Lucas is saying the model for horse racing needs to be more like the model of the NFL.
Why would be be saying that if his good buddy Jones was saying he wished the NFL would scrap the current balance?
Jones understands the NFL brand is better for him in the long run than it might be to make more money in the short run.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Zombo said:
Jones still doesn't get what is so great about the NFL. The revenue-sharing and salary cap gives all of the franchises opportunities to remain relevant and contend, it's the best sports system in the world.I guess he would prefer it to be like baseball where the Red Sox, Yankees and maybe the Cubs get ratings and the Royals and Pirates remain horrible for all eternity.
We just had one of the highest-rated sports events of all time and it featured ... NEW ORLEANS and INDIANAPOLIS. Now in Jerry's world, those two teams would be the Pirates and Royals and we'd get to watch the Cowboys and Patriots in the Super bowl every single year.
Oh wait ... make that Giants and Patriots ... because, as we all know, even with all their glamor and advantages ... the Cowboys have won only one wild card game in 15 years. Maybe that's why he doesn't want to "support" the other markets ... they keep beating his ass.
Zombo
Amen, Z. Jones should be shot for even suggesting the NFL follow the MLB model. Green Bay would be toast under that scenario. Fortunately, the NFL is a one man, one (owner) vote league- And Jones will get shot down by plenty, he could muster maybe 5 votes (I'm betting the Maras would oppose abolishing revenue sharing). Speaking of- that's why I can't get too excited about baseball- there's NO competitive balance. Until there's a hard salary cap, count me uninterested. The Yankees can't buy a pennant EVERY year, but they damn sure can field a competitive team every year, outspending small markets 4-1 or more.
Gips may find this trivia interesting- Answers in the next post.....
When's the last time the Yankees had a losing record?
How many seasons have the Yankees had a losing record since they moved to New York in 1903, 107 years ago?
Amen, Z. Jones should be shot for even suggesting the NFL follow the MLB model. Green Bay would be toast under that scenario. Fortunately, the NFL is a one man, one (owner) vote league- And Jones will get shot down by plenty, he could muster maybe 5 votes (I'm betting the Maras would oppose abolishing revenue sharing). Speaking of- that's why I can't get too excited about baseball- there's NO competitive balance. Until there's a hard salary cap, count me uninterested. The Yankees can't buy a pennant EVERY year, but they damn sure can field a competitive team every year, outspending small markets 4-1 or more.
Gips may find this trivia interesting- Answers in the next post.....
When's the last time the Yankees had a losing record?
How many seasons have the Yankees had a losing record since they moved to New York in 1903, 107 years ago?
On the trivia, I don't know the exact year, but I believe the last Yankee losing record was sometime in the early 90s. For shits and giggles I will say 1991.
Of the 107 seasons, I will say they have had a ballpark 20 losing seasons. I think prior to their acquisition of Babe Ruth they had numerous losing seasons, plus they had 4-5-6-7 in the late 60s to mid 70s. Otherwise, only a handful here or there.
-
A-1: 18 years ago, 1992.
A-2: 21, and in 9 of those seasons, they were 10 games under .500 or less. So historically, on average they've had a real stinker of a season once every 10 years or so- and if we toss out the pre-1920 records, it's even less than that. I rest my case.
A-1: 18 years ago, 1992.
A-2: 21, and in 9 of those seasons, they were 10 games under .500 or less. So historically, on average they've had a real stinker of a season once every 10 years or so- and if we toss out the pre-1920 records, it's even less than that. I rest my case.
I didn't see these answers before I made my guess. I came pretty close though
-
I think you guys are reading it all wrong.
I think it means that Jones understands why revenue sharing is important.
This quote from Lucas is what supports my take.
"In horse racing, everybody looks out for their own selfish interests. We’ve got to get under one umbrella.”
Lucas is saying the model for horse racing needs to be more like the model of the NFL.
Why would be be saying that if his good buddy Jones was saying he wished the NFL would scrap the current balance?
Jones understands the NFL brand is better for him in the long run than it might be to make more money in the short run.
I think you guys are reading it all wrong.
I think it means that Jones understands why revenue sharing is important.
This quote from Lucas is what supports my take.
"In horse racing, everybody looks out for their own selfish interests. We’ve got to get under one umbrella.”
Lucas is saying the model for horse racing needs to be more like the model of the NFL.
Why would be be saying that if his good buddy Jones was saying he wished the NFL would scrap the current balance?
Jones understands the NFL brand is better for him in the long run than it might be to make more money in the short run.
Yes, that is one way to look at it. I guess the problem with Lukas's statement is that it was vague and possibly subject to misinterpretation.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login