Local Story with Far-Reaching Implications
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I've posted about this issue before and my opinion has been in local "Letters to the Editor" columns.
Things are actually getting into high gear and the outcome of this case might be an important precedent (I'm not looking for another thread like the other one going on and on and on and on".
Arguments Begin Today In Enfield School Case
By SHAWN R. BEALS, [email protected]
BRIDGEPORT βThe chairman of the Enfield Board of Education testified in federal district court this morning that Bloomfield church officials told him they would remove religious symbols from their facility for two high school graduations planned for the end of June.
"The overall conversation [with First Cathedral officials] was that [they] will accommodate everything that needs to be done to hold a graduation ceremony," Gregory Stokes told Vincent McCarthy, attorney for the American Center for Law and Justice.
Two civil liberties groups β the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for the Separation of Church and State β are suing the school board for its decision to hold the graduation ceremonies of Enfield High School and Enrico Fermi High School at First Cathedral. PS My town and several others 'wimped out' and moved their ceremonies elsewhere.
The American Center for Law and Justice is a Washington-based evangelical Christian law center that has said it will represent the Enfield school board for free.
Stokes also told McCarthy, the American Center's Northeast counsel, that the decision to hold ceremonies at First Cathedral was "data-driven." The school board considered everything the ceremonies required, including sufficient seating and capability to videotape, in addition to cost, in making its decision to go with First Cathedral.
Testimony will continue this afternoon.
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What do you think the far-reaching implications are, John? If the ceremony is secular, which they say it is, I don't see why having it in a church should matter. But I would also want to know why you feel strongly about having it in a church if there's nothing religious about the ceremony.
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What do you think the far-reaching implications are, John? If the ceremony is secular, which they say it is, I don't see why having it in a church should matter. But I would also want to know why you feel strongly about having it in a church if there's nothing religious about the ceremony.
What do you think the far-reaching implications are, John? If the ceremony is secular, which they say it is, I don't see why having it in a church should matter. But I would also want to know why you feel strongly about having it in a church if there's nothing religious about the ceremony.
I am familiar with the facility. For the record, there have been a number of articles over the years questioning if the Cathedral is a business and not a church at all. That is another topic, I guess.
For a graduation, it provides just about everything one could hope for: comfortable seating, plenty of room for relatives, climate controlled and big screens to allow parents to see their child receive their diploma - even from a distance. No worry about rain.
I am most bothered by the ACLU and the other organization strong-arming a number of towns into moving their ceremonies in fear of running up legal bills that they cannot afford. My town, South Windsor, caved in to the threats. Thankfully, Enfield decided to call the ACLU's bluff. They did sue - they backed down last year - but here we are.
I find it difficult to view this as a a so-called separation issue, despite the ACLU, etc. trying to do so. Truth be told, I believe their activities to be motivated by anti-Christian bias.
I favor local control. Whether it's the State government, the Federal government or special interest groups, I want them to mind their own business.
That just about sums up my feelings.
PS By 'far reaching' I mean implications of holding government-type activities in an, otherwise, place of worship. It can be a precedent-setting decision.
FWIW, we rent our schools to a number of small churches so they can hold services without the need to pay for a brick and mortar building.
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As long as the ACLU smells money to be made off of these type of cases, this will continue. I dont see anything wrong with graduations being held in a church building. Its not offensive at all.
As long as the ACLU smells money to be made off of these type of cases, this will continue. I dont see anything wrong with graduations being held in a church building. Its not offensive at all.
Actually, I don't see them motivated by money - at least not in this case.
Sure, a Board of Education has some money and some insurance but they aren't cash rich by any means.
Also, the ACLU - IMHO - now finds itself in a position they'd rather not be in - suing a local community with plenty of 'good will' at risk. IMHO, they were hoping for Enfield, as did the other towns, to back down more than the hope of winning a lot of money. Power? Probably. Money? Not so sure.
I've been in the Synagogue in town a couple of times but have never been in a Mosque. If our graduation were to be held in a Mosque I wouldn't be offended. Truth be told, I'd find it interesting and would look forward to the experience - even if it were watered down to placate all parties involved.
The so called "Separation" issue is an Anti-Christian issue. Who's kidding who?
But again, I look at this as a local control issue and want to keep it that way.
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Judge Visits Church At Center Of ACLU vs. Enfield Graduation Battle
By BILL LEUKHARDT,
BLOOMFIELD β
A federal judge Tuesday toured First Cathedral, the mega-church at the center of a church-state legal battle prompted by Enfield's plans to rent the church for two high school graduations next month.
Judge Janet Hall, who is hearing the lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Bridgeport, traveled Tuesday afternoon to inspect the 3,000-seat church, which the Enfield Board of Education voted in April to rent for its graduation ceremonies June 23 and June 24.
That vote prompted a lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union and a group called Americans United for Separation of Church and State, seeking a court injunction to bar the town from using the church. First Cathedral. The lawsuit was filed on behalf of two Enfield high school seniors and three parents, all requesting anonymity, who allege that using the church is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion by government. The plaintiffs want the graduations held in a non-religious setting.
Hall, who heard testimony from the last witness in the morning before visiting the church, walked through the massive building, accompanied by several court workers, lawyers for both sides of the case and two newspaper reporters. She took notes as she walked, but made no comments.
"I want to put my eyes on it," she said in her courtroom Tuesday morning. "My sole purpose is to see what a court would normally see through videos and pictures."
Hall looked at the religious iconography in the sanctuary, asked church officials to illuminate a large mural behind the pulpit, had various sets of overhead lights turned on, then off, to see what they highlighted and checked a fountain in the church lobby and numerous religious banners, paintings and drawings on display throughout the church.
Church leaders have told Enfield officials they can remove items and banners from the building and cover up other symbols to tone down the religious themes in the building.
At the end of her tour, Hall said nothing about what she saw during her 45-minute visit inside First Cathedral, a church so large that it has electric-powered carts to help disabled and elderly attendees down the aisles to their seats. The church uses cameras to film services. There are 16 overhead monitors in the back rows for worshippers to watch.
Hall told the attorneys for plaintiffs and defendants that final arguments will be heard at 10 a.m. Thursday in her courtroom in downtown Bridgeport. She is expected to make a ruling quickly.
After she left, attorney Thomas Gerarde of Hartford, representing the Enfield schools, said the church's ability to remove the banners and pictures and to cover religious symbols will "make this as non-religious a place as you could find."
But Alex Luchenitser, senior counsel for Americans United, which is representing the plaintiffs, said the church is so full of religious symbols that virtually all of it would need to be covered, which he said would not be feasible. He said that several non-religious facilities nearby are holding the Enfield graduation dates open, if First Cathedral cannot be used.
Devin M. Cain, also from Americans United, said religious imagery in First Cathedral would be visible to graduates and families "unless they hold graduation in the dark and don't turn on the lights."
Earlier in the day, Peter Wolfgang, executive director of the Family Institute of Connecticut, which he said has 6,000 members, answered questions in court from lawyers on both sides about his role and the group's role in the school board's 6-3 vote in April that reversed an earlier vote not to use of First Cathedral.
That vote prompted the lawsuit against Enfield public schools. In that lawsuit, the ACLU and American United allege that "aggressive lobbying by a religious organization" led to the school board's reversal.
In court, ACLU attorney Sandra Staub, representing the five anonymous plaintiffs, cited numerous electronic messages that Wolfgang sent to school board Chairman Gregory Stokes and to Family Institute members. Such e-mails represent entanglement of government officials with a religious group, she said.
On the witness stand, Wolfgang said board members he talked to made it clear to him that the main issues for them in choosing a graduation site was public safety, comfort and cost.
In some of Wolfgang's e-mails introduced by Staub as evidence, Wolfgang summarized opposition to having graduations in a church as an attack on religion by people "who mistakenly believe that the separation of church and state requires a separation of religion from society."
Wolfgang said those comments reflect his viewpoint, not that of the school board members.
"With Greg Stokes, it was always just about the money with him," Wolfgang testified during cross-examination." The board members I contacted did not discuss the [u.S.] Constitution. They did not discuss religion. They asked us about the money, the impact on town finances."
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Also, the ACLU - IMHO - now finds itself in a position they'd rather not be in - suing a local community with plenty of 'good will' at risk. IMHO,
John I think the ACLU revels in bad will.
Keeps them in the news as well as helping to coerce small towns and organizations to pay extortion.
WSS
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Also, the ACLU - IMHO - now finds itself in a position they'd rather not be in - suing a local community with plenty of 'good will' at risk. IMHO,
John I think the ACLU revels in bad will.
Keeps them in the news as well as helping to coerce small towns and organizations to pay extortion.
WSS
Also, the ACLU - IMHO - now finds itself in a position they'd rather not be in - suing a local community with plenty of 'good will' at risk. IMHO,
John I think the ACLU revels in bad will.
Keeps them in the news as well as helping to coerce small towns and organizations to pay extortion.WSS
Well, the coxsackers won and 'the people' lost. I am both dismayed and angry. Ironic that this decision was communicated on Memorial Day.
On the other hand, what should I have expected from the Feds.
Judge Blocks Enfield Schools From Holding Graduations At Church
By JENNA CARLESSO, 7:23 p.m. EDT, May 31, 2010
A federal judge on Monday ruled that Enfield High School and Enrico Fermi High School will not be able to hold their graduations at First Cathedral, culminating a months-long debate over whether it is unconstitutional to host students' ceremonies at the mega-church.
The Enfield school system plans to appeal the judge's decision.
U.S. District Court Judge Janet Hall last week heard closing arguments in a legal challenge that five Enfield residents β two high school seniors and three parents β filed to block the town from renting the 3,000-seat Christian church in nearby Bloomfield. The graduations are scheduled for June 23 and 24.
In her ruling Monday, Hall wrote that the school system's decision to hold graduations at First Cathedral violates the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
"By choosing to hold graduations at First Cathedral, Enfield schools sends the message that it is closely linked with First Cathedral and its religious mission, that it favors the religious over the irreligious and that it prefers Christians over those that subscribe to other faiths, or no faith at all," Hall wrote. "In addition to the character of the forum, the history and context of the decision to hold the graduations at First Cathedral also support the conclusion that, in doing so, Enfield Public Schools has endorsed religion."
Vincent McCarthy, lead counsel for Enfield's public schools and senior Northeast counsel for the American Center for Law & Justice, said he will seek "an expedited appeal to the 2nd Circuit in New York."
"We will ask them to take a look at this decision and we will ask them to overturn it," he said Monday.
The Enfield Board of Education voted in April to rent First Cathedral for its graduation ceremonies. That vote prompted a lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union and a group called Americans United for Separation of Church and State, seeking a court injunction to bar the town from using the church. The lawsuit was filed on behalf of the two students and three parents, all requesting anonymity, who alleged that using the church was an unconstitutional endorsement of religion by government. The plaintiffs wanted the graduations held in a nonreligious setting.
"We're thrilled, of course, with the ruling," said Alex Luchenitser, lead attorney for the plaintiffs and senior litigation counsel for Americans United for Separation of Church and State. "We're thrilled the students will not be coerced to go to church at the price of attending their own graduation."
"We thought we put out a strong case. We felt good about it coming out of the hearing," he continued.
Luchenitser said there are several other venues comparable to First Cathedral in price, distance from the high schools or seating capacity at which the graduations could be held. He offered as examples the MassMutual Center and Symphony Hall in Springfield, the Big E Coliseum in West Springfield and La Renaissance banquet hall in East Windsor.
"The most important thing is that this is a victory for the separation of church and state," Luchenitser said. "This is an event family members should be able to enjoy regardless of what their religion is."
Andrew Schneider, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Connecticut, said the decision sets a standard for other cases like it that might arise throughout the country.
"I think it definitely makes a clear statement to other public schools that might consider having a graduation in an overtly religious setting that this is not acceptable," Schneider said. "This has now been found to clearly violate the Constitution."
Andrew Silva, a senior at Enrico Fermi who is class valedictorian, was outside the high school with other students Monday to express disappointment at the judge's ruling.
"I planned at one point in my speech to congratulate everybody and say, 'The reason you're here today is because you stood up to the ACLU, who said we couldn't graduate here,'β " he said. "Obviously, that's not an option right now."
McCarthy, the lead counsel for the Enfield school system, said he was dismayed by the judge's analysis of the case.
"We feel she misinterpreted the evidence. We disagree with her interpretation of the facts and the law," he said. "She seems to be very one-sided in her view of the case and not very fair."
McCarthy said that attorneys will look over the judge's full decision today and decide the specifics of how to proceed.
"We're seeking an appeal so Enfield can have its graduations at First Cathedral β the place that they chose," he said.
FOX 61 reporter Narmeen Choudhury contributed to this story.
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It's just an assault on who we are as Americans, because if they can get that,
they can get total permanent control.
Nah, never going to really happen. But they don't know that.... @@
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The fat lady has yet to sing..............
Enfield School Board Votes To Appeal Ruling That Bars Graduations At Church
June 9, 2010rease text size Text Size
The board Tuesday night changed last week's decision not to appeal.
Board member Donna Szewczak said she voted Tuesday night to approve the appeal β after voting against it last week β because "we needed to take a strong stance" and strengthen the district's defense against a May lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
Chairman Gregory Stokes said planning for this year's ceremonies at each high school is underway, but the board in the meantime will file an expedited appeal with the U.S. 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York.
"Our staff and administration is working overtime preparing for graduations at home," Stokes said.
He said he is still supporting the use of First Cathedral as a graduation site because of "overwhelming outcry" from the community against having graduations at each school.
"We listened to what the folks wanted us to do in this community," he said.
The board's lawyer, Vincent McCarthy of the American Center for Law and Justice, said the appeal will contest Judge Janet Hall's ruling that the board is endorsing religion by using a church for the graduations.
Board members Judith Apruzzese-Desroches, Stacy Thurston, Vincent Grady and Joyce Hall voted against filing an appeal.
"In my heart this is wrong on so many different avenues," Apruzzese-Desroches said. "We are the board of education, we should be focusing on the delivery of education. We're walking into something and I don't think people realize how big it really is and how long it's going to last."
ACLU staff attorney David McGuire said the appeal "creates an unnecessary cloud over graduation and creates a divisive atmosphere."
The ACLU and Americans United say holding graduations at the church forces religion on students and parents.
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I guess the Obamao regime will deficit spend some more, and
create graduation ceremony buildings for all schools K-12, as
part of a "stimulus" bill.
With a statue of Saul Alinski, and gargoyle statues guarding the entrance.
Where IS the common sense to simply make sure that religion wasn't part of
the equation for use of that building?
I've been to receptions at church basements... by pictures, you wouldn't know
that big classroom was in a church.
The whole deal is unreasonable, and an interference in the students' freedoms of choice of location.
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