Official Draft Thread
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JJ's done after next year, so we need to look into replacing him. his coming back for one more year doesn't change our situation that much. we still need a reliable, sure-handed receiver who's willing to go over the middle and can block downfield. JJ is a stopgap solution at best.
rucker could be that guy, but we haven't seen him play enough. he's not a great blocker, but his speed and size should be comparable to JJ. we should give him a shot on the outside in the offseason and see how he does.
either way, we shouldn't go WR in this draft. we have too many other needs and already have developmental WRs. plus, it'll be good to see what steptoe can do with another offseason under his belt. he made dramatic strides coming into this year and looks like a reliable slot guy.
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A lot depends on whether we trade Winslow.
If we do, then we'll probably have two additional picks, giving us the luxury of expending one on a receiver (probably on Day Two).
And that would also mean that Rucker would assume more TE responsibilities, which leaves us in need of another receiver. That could be Joe J with a pay cut ($3.562 M is a lot for a veteran on his last legs), or it could be a medium-level FA option.
But JewDago's right: we shouldn't give up on Steptoe, who could turn into our own version of Lance Moore. And it'd be nice to see Paul Hubbard or Lance Leggett show enough to make our 53 man roster next season.
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A lot depends on whether we trade Winslow.
If we do, then we'll probably have two additional picks, giving us the luxury of expending one on a receiver (probably on Day Two).
And that would also mean that Rucker would assume more TE responsibilities, which leaves us in need of another receiver. That could be Joe J with a pay cut ($3.562 M is a lot for a veteran on his last legs), or it could be a medium-level FA option.
But JewDago's right: we shouldn't give up on Steptoe, who could turn into our own version of Lance Moore. And it'd be nice to see Paul Hubbard or Lance Leggett show enough to make our 53 man roster next season.
Aloysius said:
A lot depends on whether we trade Winslow.If we do, then we'll probably have two additional picks, giving us the luxury of expending one on a receiver (probably on Day Two).
And that would also mean that Rucker would assume more TE responsibilities, which leaves us in need of another receiver. That could be Joe J with a pay cut ($3.562 M is a lot for a veteran on his last legs), or it could be a medium-level FA option.
But JewDago's right: we shouldn't give up on Steptoe, who could turn into our own version of Lance Moore. And it'd be nice to see Paul Hubbard or Lance Leggett show enough to make our 53 man roster next season.
Al, please stop. You know how I feel about that guy LOL.
I think we should institute a moratorium on anybody even mentioning him as a future player.
Leggett shows a little, but needs to get stronger.
Steptoe is what he is, which is a dependable guy out of the slot with steady hands. He should not be playing much at this point though, total product of the lack of depth we have there. I still think Kevvy Kasp hurt us, they were really planning on him taking JJ's spot.
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Ha. Hubbs is the future of the franchise, Russ. We're going to go with a bunch of long-striding gazelles who can jump really high but always juggle the ball. Our QB's completion percentage will be in the mid-30's, but we'll get a lot of "great" catches on SportsCenter.
About Steptoe: though I think he deserves to compete for the slot receiver job next year, it definitely was a crime for him to be starting outside early this season.
To me, that was one of the most grievous examples of Savage swinging for the fences this offseason. Despite knowing that JJ may not be able to play, he signed a very flashy but not very durable receiver, hoping that he'd make our offense dominant.
Instead, the Human Hamstring Pull got hurt in training camp, and we ended up starting the season without a legitimate #2 receiver.
Not a good move...
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while stallworth hasn't worked out at all, you have to look at the crop of free agent wide receivers this past year. who else was there that would have made any significant contribution?
bernard berrian also went for a ton of money. marty booker kinda sucks and is also old. isaac bruce is on his last legs. reche caldwell? no. drew carter, devery henderson and keary colbert are the same shitty player. dj hackett is solid but can't stay on the field. mushin muhammad is ancient. moss was never leaving new england. ernest wilford was frighteningly overpaid. there really weren't any great options.
however, two names stick out to me: justin gage and justin mccariens. neither is spectacular, but both are serviceable. they're number two guys who are, to the best of my knowledge, fairly durable. however, hindsight blah blah blah.
still no need to go WR in this draft, though. even if there's no clear-cut number two on the team right now, i'd rank our needs as OLB, ILB, OL, CB, S, DL, RB, WR then TE. plus, in the coming FA, there's housh, anquan boldin and shaun mcdonald, so we'll have options once we cut stallworth.
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while stallworth hasn't worked out at all, you have to look at the crop of free agent wide receivers this past year. who else was there that would have made any significant contribution?
bernard berrian also went for a ton of money. marty booker kinda sucks and is also old. isaac bruce is on his last legs. reche caldwell? no. drew carter, devery henderson and keary colbert are the same shitty player. dj hackett is solid but can't stay on the field. mushin muhammad is ancient. moss was never leaving new england. ernest wilford was frighteningly overpaid. there really weren't any great options.
however, two names stick out to me: justin gage and justin mccariens. neither is spectacular, but both are serviceable. they're number two guys who are, to the best of my knowledge, fairly durable. however, hindsight blah blah blah.
still no need to go WR in this draft, though. even if there's no clear-cut number two on the team right now, i'd rank our needs as OLB, ILB, OL, CB, S, DL, RB, WR then TE. plus, in the coming FA, there's housh, anquan boldin and shaun mcdonald, so we'll have options once we cut stallworth.
however, two names stick out to me: justin gage and justin mccariens. neither is spectacular, but both are serviceable. they're number two guys who are, to the best of my knowledge, fairly durable. however, hindsight blah blah blah.
Toop & I had a similar discussion a while back. IIRC, Bryant Johnson and Jabari Gaffney were a few other names mentioned.
In the spring, I preferred signing Gaffney & drafting a receiver. Gaffney's not a world-beater by any means, but I thought he was good enough to be JJ's backup (& possible replacement).
We probably could have gotten 40 catches out of him, and he would've come cheap (he's making $1.275M this year).
He'll be an FA after this season. I wouldn't mind us bringing him in for depth.
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while stallworth hasn't worked out at all, you have to look at the crop of free agent wide receivers this past year. who else was there that would have made any significant contribution?
bernard berrian also went for a ton of money. marty booker kinda sucks and is also old. isaac bruce is on his last legs. reche caldwell? no. drew carter, devery henderson and keary colbert are the same shitty player. dj hackett is solid but can't stay on the field. mushin muhammad is ancient. moss was never leaving new england. ernest wilford was frighteningly overpaid. there really weren't any great options.
however, two names stick out to me: justin gage and justin mccariens. neither is spectacular, but both are serviceable. they're number two guys who are, to the best of my knowledge, fairly durable. however, hindsight blah blah blah.
still no need to go WR in this draft, though. even if there's no clear-cut number two on the team right now, i'd rank our needs as OLB, ILB, OL, CB, S, DL, RB, WR then TE. plus, in the coming FA, there's housh, anquan boldin and shaun mcdonald, so we'll have options once we cut stallworth.
still no need to go WR in this draft, though. even if there's no clear-cut number two on the team right now, i'd rank our needs as OLB, ILB, OL, CB, S, DL, RB, WR then TE. plus, in the coming FA, there's housh, anquan boldin and shaun mcdonald, so we'll have options once we cut stallworth.
Funny: when I ranked them earlier this week, I put them in this order: ILB, OLB, CB, WR, DL, S, OL.
None of our position rankings are the same. Apparently, great minds butt heads a lot
I wouldn't mind a receiver in Round 4, maybe a TE. Heck really likes Bear Pascoe of Fresno State; he may be a good option.
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what'd you think about mario urrutia? his route running is suspect, but his hands aren't terrible and he's monstrously huge albeit a bit slow. i thought he was a guy that could be coached into someone uncoverable, but other NFL people obviously didn't.
i put OLB before ILB because i think two decent guys in the middle can stop the run, but you need a stud to rush the passer if you're not going to scheme pressure. if we scheme pressure, you can switch ILB to top priority. OL's third because fraley's done, hadnot's been ineffective for some reason, and shaffer's been just plain bad.
we almost agree on CB. i have safety high because i'm not sold on jones staying nor being the player he could have been without being hurt and i don't think pool will stay consistently healthy.
we have a couple decent WRs, so WR is low on the list, but we need someone to complement harrison. lewis is pretty much a goal-line/4-minute offense back at this point.
i wouldn't mind a round 4 receiver, either. i'm not sure about who's who in the class, though. need to get on that.
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We brought Urrutia in for a draft visit, right?
He was red-flagged because of character issues, so I didn't really consider him. A lot of people were comparing him to Plaxico Burress, which seemed like a complement at the time. Now? Not so much.
I think that's a great point about scheme determining which LB spot is the greater need. Agree 100%.
Wasn't paying very close attention, but Sean Jones seemed to play pretty well on Sunday. Sure, the whole defense did, but it fits a pattern of him playing better the further he gets from his knee surgery. I think the franchise tag is going to be a serious possibility with him, especially since we have so many other pressing needs.
Not sure I've seen this mentioned anywhere before, but Jamal has a $4M roster bonus due in March. If we cut him, then RB definitely becomes a big need - guys like Shonn Green and Rashad Jennings in Round 2 could be worthy replacements.
Man, we set up a ton of bonuses for '09. It only adds to the sense that Phil thought he was assembling a Super Bowl team for this season. No way you set up so many of these deals if you're planning on these guys being the core of your team for the next 2-3 years.
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jamal's bonus definitely pushes RB up the need list, especially with pretty much nowhere to turn in FA.
and urrutia's on the bengals' practice squad. they took him in round 7. scouting reports all said he has questionable hands, is a long strider and lacks focus. good thing we didn't take him. he's paul hubbard. but maybe we didn't have to trade into the fifth to nab essentially the same player we could've grabbed when he was placed on the practice squad.
we did bring him in for a visit, though.
i'd love to see jones franchised if we can't re-sign him. still want mays no matter what, though.
and the contract structures could also be an out that savage built if the team he put together didn't succeed. we could blow up part of the team and replace people without too much of a cap hit.
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jamal's bonus definitely pushes RB up the need list, especially with pretty much nowhere to turn in FA.
and urrutia's on the bengals' practice squad. they took him in round 7. scouting reports all said he has questionable hands, is a long strider and lacks focus. good thing we didn't take him. he's paul hubbard. but maybe we didn't have to trade into the fifth to nab essentially the same player we could've grabbed when he was placed on the practice squad.
we did bring him in for a visit, though.
i'd love to see jones franchised if we can't re-sign him. still want mays no matter what, though.
and the contract structures could also be an out that savage built if the team he put together didn't succeed. we could blow up part of the team and replace people without too much of a cap hit.
jamal's bonus definitely pushes RB up the need list, especially with pretty much nowhere to turn in FA.
Interesting stat on Lewis: everyone's always said that JLew's the kind of back that gets better the more carries he gets.
Last year, that certainly seemed to be the case:
- Carries 1-10: 3.9 YPC
- Carries 11-20: 4.4 YPC
- Carries 21-30: 6.0 YPC
- Carries 1-10: 3.9 YPC
- Carries 11-20: 3.3 YPC
- Carries 21-30: 2.8 YPC
Either way, the stats seem to indicate that he's only good for about 5-10 carries a game, RBBC style. But his contract may be too big to justify keeping him for such a small role.
So you're right: RB definitely needs to get pushed up the need list.
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The only positions IMO where we don't need anybody is NT, Kicker,Punter.
After that, there really isn't anybody good enough or where we have so much depth we could rule out drafting someone.
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Wow we need to add some pieces through the draft and we don't have a third or a fifth. Brilliant strategy Phil.
Hopefully a trade for DA or KW can get them back.
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I think Phil was expecting this to be a better year....LOL
We are going to pick up something for 1 or both of those guys....Winslow seems like a solid 3rd round value.
DA.....you never know with qbs and how another team might value him. One side of me says a 6th would be great, another says some team is going to want him and might give up as much as a 2nd......I think in the end with DA, it will be some conditional deal...a 6th now....possibly as high as a 2nd the following year depending on how he plays with his new team.
I don't think he is going to being any immediate draft help, but may in 2010
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'Peen....I think you are suffering from REVERSE HOMERISM!!!
It is just like when we OVER-RATE a player doing well on our team....we UNDER-RATE the value of a player on our team when they don't meet expectations.
The truth is, DA is worth at LEAST a 3rd...more likely a high 2nd. His value is experience....a manageable contract...and a big upside. He has proven he CAN do it in the league...and with all the crap going on in Cleveland right now it is very likely that opposing GM's may decide that his problems were more from the team than they were from any regression (bad play calling, WR's dropping passes, Lewis not getting yards, more sacks).
There are only 2 QB's in this draft that will rate above him (Stafford/Bradford) and they are both underclassman and may not come out....and the FA market is thin at best. Cassel faced his first major test and failed vs Pittsburgh. McNabb is old and frail. Garcia is old and limited arm. Beyond that there is nothing. Keep in mind, Schaub got 2 2nds and had a lot less to show than DA. I bet we get a 2nd and a 3rd for him.
As for K2....he may be injured, but he is also one of the top 4 TE's in the game. I would be surprised if he doesn't get at LEAST a 2nd...if not a couple of picks. I don't see us getting a 1st for him, but a 2nd and 3rd wouldn't surprise me at all.
Seriously, if we trade just those 2 players, we may very well end up with the following first day:
RD 1: Ours
RD 2: Ours plus 2
RD 3: Ours plus 2
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My 4 round BROWNS MOCK DRAFT
********************* ROUND ONE *************************
Rey Maualuga ILB 6'3" 250 USC (I really changed my mind about Rey ! Read up a lot on him)
Brian Orakpo DE/ILB 6'4 - 260 lbs. Texas
If the Chargers pick before the Browns, they will get Rey. I changed my mind. Troy Pollymoomoo is quiet, too.
If the Browns pick before the Chargers, they get Rey. Both players will be huge upgrades to their respective 3-4 defenses.
ALTERNATE PLAN: There actually is a possibility that both these players may be gone by the time the Browns pick.
So, the Browns trade down maybe 7 - 10 places, and pick up a 2nd and a fifth round draft pick.
Then, they draft Eben Britton*, Arizona
Height: 6-6. Weight: 310.
Projected 40 Time: 5.05.
********************* ROUND TWO *********************
If the Browns got the lb they wanted in the first, they pick:
Eben Britton*, Arizona
Height: 6-6. Weight: 310.
Projected 40 Time: 5.05.
Projected Round (2009): 2.
7/27/08: An athletic tackle who earned a spot on the All-Pac-10 second team as a sophomore.
If they went with the Alternate plan: they have Britton already, they pick my Jack Lambert kind of 3-4 ILB:
Position: DE
School & Year/Status: Wisconsin - Senior
Height & Weight: 6'6 - 253 lbs.
Ranked #83 on our Top 100 Prospects Board
2009 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:
Matt Shaughnessy, DE, Wisconsin
Matt Shaughnessy is the type of player that every coach loves to have on their team. He's not only the hardest worker, he's also extremely talented. Shaughnessy has been incredibly productive during his career at Wisconsin, after taking over a starting role as a sophomore. He's another one of the new breed of college defensive ends. Shaughnessy is small, quick, and hard for big tackles to block. He seems to always be in the backfield disrupting plays, having recorded 33.5 tackles for loss and 11.5 sacks in his first three seasons. Shaughnessy might need to add a little bulk to play every down in the NFL. He plays at 253 pounds right now, and if it doesn't affect his speed, could stand to gain 15 to 20 pounds. He is very alert, and makes all the little plays that make a defense great. Shaughnessy is excellent at using his 6'6" frame to bat balls down at the line of scrimmage. He has broken up 8 pass attempts during his career when asked to drop into coverage. There is a surplus of talented pass rushers in this draft, so determining where they might go is tricky. The Badger senior is probably a third round prospect at this point in time. However, if Shaughnessy can have a productive senior season and run a good time at the NFL Combine after the season, he could go as high as the top of the second round. :
And the Browns trade Winslow for a mid round second round pick. (well, they couldn't get a first, isn't my fault GGG)
and with that pick, they draft:
Position: DT
School & Year/Status: Georgia Tech - Senior
Height & Weight: 6'2 - 293 lbs.
Ranked #50 on our Top 100 Prospects Board
2009 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:
person
Vance Walker, DT, Georgia Tech
In his first year as a full-time starter in 2007, Vance Walker tallied 14.0 tackles-for-loss and 8.5 sacks. As a result, the 6-2, 293 pound defensive tackle earned First Team All-ACC and Third Team All-America honors. Walker (one piece of a great defensive line at Georgia Tech) is an intuitive run stopper, but he does so much more than that. His ability to get into the backfield gives opposing quarterbacks nightmares.
Walker might not be the most physically imposing tackle in the draft, but he is consistent. During the 2007 season he had a tackle-for-loss in 11 of 12 regular season games and his consistency has not gone away in 2008. If that trend continues throughout the rest of his collegiate career, Walker will be a safe pick for any NFL team.
There is still a lot that Walker can do to increase his draft stock (like have a good senior season with the Yellow Jackets and have a good scouting combine), but at this point his ceiling is probably in the second or third round. Even if Walker garners more national attention and All-ACC accolades, his stock will not rise too much more until Senior Week and the Combine come around.
11/24 Update: Walker's ankle injury has slowed some of his production and he might miss the team's final regular season game against Georgia. As a result his numbers in 2008 (3.0 sacks, 8.5 tackles-for-loss) come nowhere close to his breakout campaign of a year ago. Even so, the injury is not major and most NFL teams will like Walker's versatility and speed.
********************* ROUND THREE *********************
(DA trade - well, there has to be SOME team that would give up a 3rd, dammit !)
Rashad Jennings, Liberty
Height: 6-1. Weight: 232.
Projected 40 Time: 4.46.
Projected Round (2009): 3-4.
10/18/08: For those of you who don't follow 1-AA football, Liberty is undefeated. The main reason is Rashad Jennings, who is literally carrying the Flames, Through six games, Jennings has 725 yards and eight touchdowns on a 5.6 YPC clip. NFL GMs and scouts are going to love his 40 time.
5/21/08: Rashad Jennings is a transfer from Pittsburgh, but he didn't switch schools because he couldn't keep up; he had family issues to deal with. At Liberty, Jennings totaled 1,113 yards and 15 touchdowns.
********************* ROUND FOUR *********************
Cribbs becomes a wr, pr,
White becomes kickoff returner, slot receiver
They become the Browns Dynamic Duo, and every NFL team without a "Cribbs", will hate that they didn't get their own version of
him... .
Pat White, West Virginia
Height: 6-2. Weight: 189.
Projected 40 Time: 4.43.
Projected Round (2009): 4.
5/22/08: Looking to become the next Antwaan Randle El (pre-Washington), Pat White will have to play receiver and kick returner at the next level. He has the athleticism to make the transition, but does he have the skill set?
2007: What to do with Pat White? Does he play running back at the next level? Receiver? Quarterback? Probably not the latter. Considering he rushed for 1,219 yards and 18 touchdowns, and gained 7.4 yards per carry, White will probably be placed in the backfield. His small frame concerns me, so what White needs to do after graduating is put on about 15 pounds of muscle.
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pat white is an extremely interesting player. great vision, speed, quickness and agility. he could transition to a decent receiver, especially with his height. i'd love to see what he could become. i just hope the browns can bring it out of him.
we're in an interesting spot with our OL. we don't need to address it in the first, but it needs help, especially at C and RT. still, the first is way too early for us to be thinking OL.
we had a rashad jennings discussion going on yesterday. doubtful he lasts to the third. he's likely a second-round guy.
@ WPB: it's hard to not underrate your own guys after the season we've had. cleveland football teaches you to be an eternal pessimist.
i'm not sure what kind of trade value DA will have. one advantage of schaub was that he'd played very well in his limited appearances. i don't think he'd started more than a dozen games when houston traded for him, whereas DA has more than a season's worth of starts under his belt. that gives the same teams that developed strategies to shut him down plenty of tape to gauge his worth. i'm expecting a fifth or sixth, but will be ecstatic with a third or fourth. i doubt we get a two for him.
i agree completely with your K2 stance, save that i doubt we'll get a 2 and a 3 for him. that's a huge bounty. more likely, we'll get a 2 and a 5 or a 4. the shockey deal set the standard. it's up to savage to get someone to up it.
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New WalterFootball mock, nothing exciting:
- Round 1: Beanie Wells, RB, tOSU
- Round 2: Darius Butler, CB, UConn
- Round 1: Beanie Wells, RB, tOSU
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trade down about 10 spots on the first to pick up an additional second rounder.
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'Peen....I think you are suffering from REVERSE HOMERISM!!!
LOL.....maybe so.
Like I said...I think DA is worth a higher pick....it is all going to depend on how other teams feel and who else might be on the market, but as I have said on several occasions....DA is going to be a good qb in this league
If we got a 3rd rounder, I would consider that fair compensation.
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