He's Certainly Got a Type
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If you re-read my comment, you'll notice that I didn't make any comments regarding who was at fault and who should be held accountable.
But the fact of the matter is, if the players make themselves ineligible, then the schools can't be considered the best. It doesn't matter who is at fault. And frankly, if you think the schools don't know, or aren't involved somehow, you are sadly mistaken.
How do you know???
Quit talking like you know the facts when it is obvious you don't have a clue.
I am not trying to rub you the wrong way, but it is evident to me you are just blowing smoke to bolster your point.
if it's shown the schools knew, that is one thing. It's another when some guy on a message board chrips in the schools knew.
What do you know about what they knew???
Really, I am interested to hear.
Educate me.....Seriously...no smack intended.
How do you know???
Quit talking like you know the facts when it is obvious you don't have a clue.
I am not trying to rub you the wrong way, but it is evident to me you are just blowing smoke to bolster your point.
if it's shown the schools knew, that is one thing. It's another when some guy on a message board chrips in the schools knew.
What do you know about what they knew???
Really, I am interested to hear.
Educate me.....Seriously...no smack intended.
I have no proof of anything. I can't prove to you that they don't know either (and neither can you.)
And most of the time that I'm aware of, when somebody says, "If you think they don't know, you are sadly mistaken" it is taken as a conspiracy theory, and not like the actually know anything of pertinent value.
I'm not trying to prove any point. I'm not trying to blow smoke or whatever.
My opinion is, that most of these schools know more than they let on. Even if they do have plausible deniability.
You may not agree. That's fine.
But if the NCAA sanctions half the cream of the crop of the SEC, then that means that they were cheaters. Even if its just a couple players, that means the SEC isn't the smack daddy it thought it was.
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If any of these SEC investigations hold water, then that will certainly put a damper on SEC fans claiming their conference is the best in football. Kinda hard to call your conference the best, when your best teams are all cheaters.
No it isn't....and the problem isn't with the schools, it is with the players and agents seeking business.
The NFL needs to step up and decertify some of these agents who go out and start talking to players before the bell. The blame shouldn't be placed on the schools. I know it's easy to say the schools should be in control yada, yada, but there is no way they can control every conversation players have.
No it isn't....and the problem isn't with the schools, it is with the players and agents seeking business.
The NFL needs to step up and decertify some of these agents who go out and start talking to players before the bell. The blame shouldn't be placed on the schools. I know it's easy to say the schools should be in control yada, yada, but there is no way they can control every conversation players have.
I disagree, I think part of the problem does lie with the schools. They've turned college football into a business like the NFL. They dont care about the academics or the well being of the players, they only care about there bottom line. Every decision they make is based on profitability, if it dont make money it dont make sense. These kids see decisions being made without there best interest at heart, wouldn't you at least want to cash in on it. If university's focused more on academics and tradition instead of which matchups in bowl games will bring more revenue then they would probably see more loyalty from players and coaches.
Instead we have the Big 12 falling apart, the Pac 15 or however many teams they have now and the Big 10 playing a conference championship game. They can make these kind of changes to fatten there bank account but they cant set up a playoff system. All this in the name of making a buck off athletes that are getting screwed out of a education. When these guys dont hack it in the NFL what do they have to fall back on?
1st Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU 3rd Darius Slay, CB, Mississippi State4th Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma5th Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State6th Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico -
OK, so USC is on probation. Florida is being investigated. Georgia is being investigated. Tenn. is being investigated. Alabama is being investigated. South Carolina is being investigated. Kentucky basketball is being investigated. Mabye the entire SEC. North Carolina under Butchyboy is being investigated.
Why do none of these necessarily make me blink twice in surprise?
OK, so USC is on probation. Florida is being investigated. Georgia is being investigated. Tenn. is being investigated. Alabama is being investigated. South Carolina is being investigated. Kentucky basketball is being investigated. Mabye the entire SEC. North Carolina under Butchyboy is being investigated.
Why do none of these necessarily make me blink twice in surprise?
Maybe we dont blink at this because everyone knows they hired a bunch of cheaters.
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No it isn't....and the problem isn't with the schools, it is with the players and agents seeking business.
The NFL needs to step up and decertify some of these agents who go out and start talking to players before the bell. The blame shouldn't be placed on the schools. I know it's easy to say the schools should be in control yada, yada, but there is no way they can control every conversation players have.
I disagree, I think part of the problem does lie with the schools. They've turned college football into a business like the NFL. They dont care about the academics or the well being of the players, they only care about there bottom line. Every decision they make is based on profitability, if it dont make money it dont make sense. These kids see decisions being made without there best interest at heart, wouldn't you at least want to cash in on it. If university's focused more on academics and tradition instead of which matchups in bowl games will bring more revenue then they would probably see more loyalty from players and coaches.
Instead we have the Big 12 falling apart, the Pac 15 or however many teams they have now and the Big 10 playing a conference championship game. They can make these kind of changes to fatten there bank account but they cant set up a playoff system. All this in the name of making a buck off athletes that are getting screwed out of a education. When these guys dont hack it in the NFL what do they have to fall back on?
nmills said:
I disagree, I think part of the problem does lie with the schools. They've turned college football into a business like the NFL. They dont care about the academics or the well being of the players, they only care about there bottom line. Every decision they make is based on profitability, if it dont make money it dont make sense. These kids see decisions being made without there best interest at heart, wouldn't you at least want to cash in on it. If university's focused more on academics and tradition instead of which matchups in bowl games will bring more revenue then they would probably see more loyalty from players and coaches.Instead we have the Big 12 falling apart, the Pac 15 or however many teams they have now and the Big 10 playing a conference championship game. They can make these kind of changes to fatten there bank account but they cant set up a playoff system. All this in the name of making a buck off athletes that are getting screwed out of a education. When these guys dont hack it in the NFL what do they have to fall back on?
Actually the "NFL Wannabes" aren't getting screwed out of an education- the exact opposite is true- if said "I'm only here to get to the NFL" guys will take advantage of the opportunities major colleges offer their semipros- like private one on one tutoring on demand- that aren't offered to the regular college grunts- well whose fault is that? So sure- the Athletic Department is totally innocent of steering "academically challenged" scholarship players into rah-rah profs required English courses where said profs will spot them the "A" when they can't spell C_T?
Yeah, the simple math from an OSU perspective should say it all. If every guy (70 players) are on a full free ride, that's $2 million. One game at the 'Shoe
100k @ $35 a ticket= $3.5 million. Not counting concessions, in-close parking and generous forced "contributions" from the alumni to the athletic department to secure their seats.
And FWIW, I'll side with the players- you "hired" me as an independent contractor- just because you're paying my bills, doesn't mean I can't make a little (or a lot) of money in a side business.
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I agree Hoorta....I have long thought players should get a little something extra...with all the practice time and school, it leave little time for a job to make some cash.
If their parents don't have the money to send them a few hundred bucks a month so they can take a girl to a movie now and then, it creates a problem. I would have no problem at all if players on scholarship got a stipend each month as part of the scholarship package....I don't know the figure.... $75-100 a week sounds fair.
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Its a game, you go to school to get an education. Why dont you pay students who are becoming Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers. They actually have a purpose to get a degree and become civil workers. There not bolting without graduating to play a game.
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Its a game, you go to school to get an education. Why dont you pay students who are becoming Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers. They actually have a purpose to get a degree and become civil workers. There not bolting without graduating to play a game.
nmills said:
Its a game, you go to school to get an education. Why dont you pay students who are becoming Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers. They actually have a purpose to get a degree and become civil workers. There not bolting without graduating to play a game.I understand that....but the school isn't taking up massive amounts of the others free time so to speak.
I guess I have just come to the conclusion it isn't about the education for most of the players. it's a shot at becoming a pro player.
Once you get past the point of holding the education as the reason they are there, then it becomes simple.
Here are two facts.
1. All the students and alumni want good sports programs
2. Good sports programs(and not so good as well) bring in massive amounts of money for the school which is used to pay bills. If the money wasn't entering the till, tuitions would be a heck of a lot higher.
Back to a point hoorta made...saying the school might spend 2mil on scholarships....it really isn't nearly that high. Sure, there is a value to tuition....however, it doesn't really cost the school a thing to have 70 people around campus sitting in various classrooms.
Add up the costs for a meal plan, books, and the actual cost of maintaining a dorm room for the year and you have the real cost. That is far under the 25k it costs the average Joe to go to school at the state university.
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There's just over 200 athlete's that get drafted and probably not even half of them are in the league after 2-3 years. Its the university's job to prepare these kids for life without football because 90% of them are not playing in the NFL. I find it crazy that they actually tell a kid it would be in his best interest to leave school for the NFL. Coaches and AD's encourage kids to leave without a degree, there's a problem with that. Even if there projected to be a first round pick, how many of them bust?...alot
1st Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU 3rd Darius Slay, CB, Mississippi State4th Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma5th Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State6th Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico -
Let's start at the beginning .
The prep schools have rules preventing college recruitment . Colleges are not allowed to "bribe" preppies to come to their school . They are restricted in their methods to say the least .
College players that are given scholarships to recieve a college diploma and a greater chance of realizing their "American Dream" , while others must PAY for it .
With that in mind .........why should players be paid at the college level ? I just don't think so . They are given the free ride at college , and the promise of being in the lotto for millions at the pro level .
I have no sympathy for cheaters at any level . jmho
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Here is the solution that should be formulated but never will be: Form a minor league for football just like their is in baseball and hockey. MLB and NHL teams must pay for and support their minor league system, the NBA at least has its developmental league. All the players in those leagues get paid something. Why shouldn't the NFL support a minor league system? Why should they use the colleges as a free minor league?
Is the UFL supposed to sort of be a minor league for the NFL?
Why should a player be forced to attend college for 3 years before being eligible for a pro career. If they say they can't join the NFL for three years, put them into their own developmental league out of HS for that period. They would at least be getting the training in the trade they want to pursue, and not have to be reading Shakespeare or dissecting frogs if they didn't want to.
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There's just over 200 athlete's that get drafted and probably not even half of them are in the league after 2-3 years. Its the university's job to prepare these kids for life without football because 90% of them are not playing in the NFL. I find it crazy that they actually tell a kid it would be in his best interest to leave school for the NFL. Coaches and AD's encourage kids to leave without a degree, there's a problem with that. Even if there projected to be a first round pick, how many of them bust?...alot
nmills said:
There's just over 200 athlete's that get drafted and probably not even half of them are in the league after 2-3 years. Its the university's job to prepare these kids for life without football because 90% of them are not playing in the NFL. I find it crazy that they actually tell a kid it would be in his best interest to leave school for the NFL. Coaches and AD's encourage kids to leave without a degree, there's a problem with that. Even if there projected to be a first round pick, how many of them bust?...alotI don't think players are encouraged all that often. I think they are discouraged more often than not. Now whether it is concern for the education or concern for the football program can be debated at another time.
I think by and large any that are given the blessing should leave. If you have a chance to cash in on the NFL gravy train you do it IMO.
Life is a funny deal.....you never know what tomorrow holds. The kid doesn't cash in and next year he gets racked and can't play anymore or play at a diminished level, it's like knowing you have the winning lotto ticket and flushing it down the toilet.
The time for sports is limited. The window opens, and then closes. The time to educate yourself lasts as long as your mind holds out.
I am all for getting educated, but you can't ignore money either.
I'll be honest. I didn't go to school to get educated. I went so I could get a job that paid well enough to support the lifestyle I wanted to lead.
I suppose it would be kind of cool to be a renaissance man who can identify the great works by the Dutch masters, quote Shakespeare and Voltaire, and write papers on quantum physics, but in the end, I am glad I took the money.
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nmills said:
There's just over 200 athlete's that get drafted and probably not even half of them are in the league after 2-3 years. Its the university's job to prepare these kids for life without football because 90% of them are not playing in the NFL. I find it crazy that they actually tell a kid it would be in his best interest to leave school for the NFL. Coaches and AD's encourage kids to leave without a degree, there's a problem with that. Even if there projected to be a first round pick, how many of them bust?...alotI don't think players are encouraged all that often. I think they are discouraged more often than not. Now whether it is concern for the education or concern for the football program can be debated at another time.
I think by and large any that are given the blessing should leave. If you have a chance to cash in on the NFL gravy train you do it IMO.
Life is a funny deal.....you never know what tomorrow holds. The kid doesn't cash in and next year he gets racked and can't play anymore or play at a diminished level, it's like knowing you have the winning lotto ticket and flushing it down the toilet.
The time for sports is limited. The window opens, and then closes. The time to educate yourself lasts as long as your mind holds out.
I am all for getting educated, but you can't ignore money either.
I'll be honest. I didn't go to school to get educated. I went so I could get a job that paid well enough to support the lifestyle I wanted to lead.
I suppose it would be kind of cool to be a renaissance man who can identify the great works by the Dutch masters, quote Shakespeare and Voltaire, and write papers on quantum physics, but in the end, I am glad I took the money.
I don't think players are encouraged all that often. I think they are discouraged more often than not. Now whether it is concern for the education or concern for the football program can be debated at another time.
I think by and large any that are given the blessing should leave. If you have a chance to cash in on the NFL gravy train you do it IMO.
Its there right to go for the money if they want but it shouldn't be the coach's or anyone involved in the NCAA that should be encouraging them to do so.
Life is a funny deal.....you never know what tomorrow holds. The kid doesn't cash in and next year he gets racked and can't play anymore or play at a diminished level, it's like knowing you have the winning lotto ticket and flushing it down the toilet.
They already have a winning ticket...a free education.....The injury story is irrelevant to me that can happen anytime. Even with that, Sam Bradford got injured and he was the #1 overall pick.
The time for sports is limited. The window opens, and then closes. The time to educate yourself lasts as long as your mind holds out.
Cant argue with that
I am all for getting educated, but you can't ignore money either.
Getting educated usually leads to money, the majority of guys dont play ball for a living
I'll be honest. I didn't go to school to get educated. I went so I could get a job that paid well enough to support the lifestyle I wanted to lead.
Thats the point of getting an education. You went to school to get educated in a field that will earn you better pay than the average joe.
I suppose it would be kind of cool to be a renaissance man who can identify the great works by the Dutch masters, quote Shakespeare and Voltaire, and write papers on quantum physics, but in the end, I am glad I took the money.
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Thats the point of getting an education. You went to school to get educated in a field that will earn you better pay than the average joe.
But that was for me and maybe for you.
I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't able to be a top baseball player,that was my sport, though I did play some college ball.
If I had, things might have been different.
The point is it isn't up to us to determine what is important and what isn't for other people.
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