K2 wants to stay
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From purely a football and TE production standpoint, he should stay. BQ loves hitting the TE. They'll tear it up together.
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dammit, rac is killing me. not letting rucker play really hamstrings us in this situation. K2 is doing his part to help us get him out of town if we want to/can, but rac's stubborn refusal to play rookies is killing our chances to evaluate their talent.
however, this is a good move for K2. like JADBF said, it's an attempt to make himself look like less of a malcontent, a rep he's unfairly been labeled with. while he was immature when he came out of college, he's grown a lot since then. the staph incident was all the front office's fault, and if we as fans can see that, so can people around the league.
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I thought this part of Steve Doerschuk's article was interesting:
Winslow and General Manager Phil Savage were at odds midway through the season. Is there anything still to that?
“No, Mr. Lerner and I have a very good relationship, so I’m very happy with him,” Winslow said.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20081211/ca...rowns_winslow_2
Not the most lengthy, descriptive article. Good news however. I think he fits really well with BQ's style of play.
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In my opinion he's worn out his welcome. In a few months he'll be making noise about wanting a new contract. Browns fans still think of him as the same stud he was out of college. In reality he's nothing like that anymore. He can be someone else's problem in 2009.
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In my opinion he's worn out his welcome. In a few months he'll be making noise about wanting a new contract. Browns fans still think of him as the same stud he was out of college. In reality he's nothing like that anymore. He can be someone else's problem in 2009.
In my opinion he's worn out his welcome. In a few months he'll be making noise about wanting a new contract. Browns fans still think of him as the same stud he was out of college. In reality he's nothing like that anymore. He can be someone else's problem in 2009.
Depends on the money he wants as to weather or not I still want him, had he not got hurt then hell yes I still want him here.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20081211/ca...rowns_winslow_2
Not the most lengthy, descriptive article. Good news however. I think he fits really well with BQ's style of play.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20081211/ca...rowns_winslow_2
Not the most lengthy, descriptive article. Good news however. I think he fits really well with BQ's style of play.
K2 Blows. He should go as K 1/2 He has no moves, no speed, no open field ability. He doens' make touchdowns and because his crippled legs don't allow him to block, wen he is in the game, opposing defenses can guess that we are passing.
The ONLY this big turd offers is that kids think he is a hero. We already have more capable TEs on the team.
He has very little, if any trade value. I would just cut him and stop the bleeding. We have better TEs on the team right now. KW 1/2 is no better than 3 on the depth chart.
Drop him off at the pool, he's crap/.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20081211/ca...rowns_winslow_2
Not the most lengthy, descriptive article. Good news however. I think he fits really well with BQ's style of play.
K2 Blows. He should go as K 1/2 He has no moves, no speed, no open field ability. He doens' make touchdowns and because his crippled legs don't allow him to block, wen he is in the game, opposing defenses can guess that we are passing.
The ONLY this big turd offers is that kids think he is a hero. We already have more capable TEs on the team.
He has very little, if any trade value. I would just cut him and stop the bleeding. We have better TEs on the team right now. KW 1/2 is no better than 3 on the depth chart.
Drop him off at the pool, he's crap/.
K2 Blows. He should go as K 1/2 He has no moves, no speed, no open field ability. He doens' make touchdowns and because his crippled legs don't allow him to block, wen he is in the game, opposing defenses can guess that we are passing.
The ONLY this big turd offers is that kids think he is a hero. We already have more capable TEs on the team.
He has very little, if any trade value. I would just cut him and stop the bleeding. We have better TEs on the team right now. KW 1/2 is no better than 3 on the depth chart.
Drop him off at the pool, he's crap/.
Why don't we just drop the whole team, coaching staff, and front office off, right now? They all blow.
Yeah, you cut a tight end that's above 50th percentile in virtually every category. Yes, we have a better blocking tight end in Heiden- but IIRC, Ozzie Newsome wasn't noted for his blocking ability- neither was Jim Brown. Darnell Dinkins positively wows me- NOT.
Moves, speed? That's the category of wrs my friend. Ya think Jason Whitten or Todd Heap score any higher in those categories?
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still Hoort, you gotta give him some cred for K 1/2. that was fugging classic!!
props Ghool.
1/4 Winslow apparently took a page out of OCHO's book and became humble, showed he wants to stay.
my wish would be to trade K 1/4 for Ocho. we'd alleviate a touchy situation and fix Braylon all in one swoop. the competition and veteran leadership would hopefully spark Braylon back into olympic form more than Joe ever could, and if Joe doesn't make it back you're covered there too.
but would the city embrace him? that's the multi-million dollar question.
Phil if you're listening, you should be calling Marvin--like yesterday!
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20081211/ca...rowns_winslow_2
Not the most lengthy, descriptive article. Good news however. I think he fits really well with BQ's style of play.
K2 Blows. He should go as K 1/2 He has no moves, no speed, no open field ability. He doens' make touchdowns and because his crippled legs don't allow him to block, wen he is in the game, opposing defenses can guess that we are passing.
The ONLY this big turd offers is that kids think he is a hero. We already have more capable TEs on the team.
He has very little, if any trade value. I would just cut him and stop the bleeding. We have better TEs on the team right now. KW 1/2 is no better than 3 on the depth chart.
Drop him off at the pool, he's crap/.
He has no moves, no speed, no open field ability
These may be true, but what he does have is GOOD HANDS. Something this team desperately needs in those 3rd and 5ish type situations. Hell, we need someone with good hands in every situation. He also attracts a lot of attention which obviously helps a lot.
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Winslow should be looked at like a used car. Trade him in while he has some value.
He wants to stay cause he knows Lerners got mad cash and he can get away with being an idiot under RAC.
Please get rid of Losers and quitters.
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@jadbf said:
Once again, this has ZERO to do with whether or not Winslow wants to stay.This is Winslow saying to any team that MIGHT want to sign him..."REALLY! I am not a bad guy. I am not a distraction to the team. I am not a guy like TO. I'm a team guy."
He knows his NUMBERS for the year are not going to be spectacular, and that will reduce his options of teams that would take him. He doesn't want anything else affecting it.
Look, who fricken cares what the thug has to say. Either trade him or cut him, his locker room presence is a me,me,meme,me, deal. K2 and his 'so called staff infection' are what has dragged this team down. We don't need warriors, we need football players who prefer to win as a team. Its amazing how everyone forgets the money issues revolving around this guy and his off feild antics. I don't want a Mark Price at tight end just solid tight end who knows how to play and be a reliable teammate.
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@jadbf said:
I'm more lukewarm on this arguement. I like his fire, and I really don't think at this point you will get anything much of value for him. So I'd keep him. BUt I also would not be worried if he was traded. The other TEs on this team are good enough that you wouldn't notice a huge drop off in production. I am with you though on getting a guy like BoldinName a few guys like Boldin and look at them cause Boldin isn't coming to Cleveland. JJ looks like he gone too. Is it a forgone conclusion that cribbs can't be a starting WR?
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If Braylon's going to be given a second chance next year than why not Stallworth?
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I think Winslow AND Edwards could both be gone. If he could just catch the stupid football, Edwards would be a big loss, without a signing of a FA or draft pick to replace him.
but Winslow is really expendable. And he wants his contract renegotiated after the Browns stayed with him through off the field injuries and him
flapping his jaws publicly...
Keeping Edwards -would- be a big plus, if they could get him to a sports psychologist or something to get his focus back on catching the ball.
But Winslow is a prima donna, and an injured one at that, not physically what he once was because of the moto fiasco - I'd trade him for a second pick in this draft and be real happy.
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@ hammertime: bralyon's being given a second chance because he had a great year and has been maturing throughout his career. stallworth had one decent year in philly and has never lived up to his talent. it also hurts him that he can't stay on the field. there's nothing like making an investment and having it sit on the shelf. even underperforming is better than not performing at all.
why wouldn't boldin come to cleveland?
as far as other FAs go, there's no one else in his class. he's a pure stud, through and through.
and cribbs isn't a viable WR. we've never seen him run routes. maybe if he works on it in the offseason, which i'm sure he will, but we have to balance that with his duties as a KR/PR/gunner because he can impact the game more on special teams than as a WR.
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I like K2. I think he is good for the team....and I think we will miss him on the field...but I also think we will more value for him in a trade than we lose by going to our other TE's we already have.
In case you haven't noticed, the Browns currently have 5 TE's on the roster?
Winslow
Dinkins
Heiden
Rucker
Collins (practice Squad)
The Browns offense didn't suffer when K2 was out...and I think that getting a possession type receiver would be a better move anyway.
K2 is still a top 5 TE....and a team that is in/near the playoffs could do worse than him to fill in a piece of the puzzle. He will garner a good pick and/or player in a position of need...and our drop in the TE position will not be insurmountable.
Add in his contract wants...and the on field stupid moves...and the off field drama....and I say we get what we can for him. The Giants got a 2nd and a 5th from the Saints....and I could see the Browns getting similar in return for K2....which would go a long way to solidifying our draft (we are missing a 3rd/5th/7th right now). Add in what we get for DA and we can have a successful draft.
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@shepwrite said:
I don't think we get crap for him in a trade... because people assume you'd only trade a talent like Winslow if he's breaking down. I don't know what the economics are on Winslow, but I don't think we'd cut him.My guess? Upside is a third rounder. More likely is a fourth. Better to keep him.
Let me echo: Why can't Boldin be a Brown? Allergy to orange?
Yeah, you don't trade Jeremy Shockey either...and look what the Giants got...a second and a fifth.
Keep in mind these destinations...as it will be a team that thinks they can compete by adding him:
Buffalo - 35 total receptions at TE, none with 30 receptions
Philadelphia - 3 different TE's, none with 30 receptions
Tampa Bay - Jeramy Stevens leads with 30 receptions, but isn't even the starter
Arizona - 4 different TE's, none with 10 receptions
Carolina - 3 different TE's, none with 20 receptions
Atlanta - 16 total receptions by TE's
Some others that could use him but I don't see them making the move:
Detroit
San Francisco
St. Louis
Cincinnati
There will be a significant market for a premier pass catching TE that has ALREADY been shopped, and has ALREADY talked about being traded, and on a team with valid depth at the position (even ESPN was asking if we were better without him)....so teams won't be thinking this is about injuries...but they will know he has them.
Don't forget, Shockey was traded WHILE injured.
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so no one liked the k2 for ocho swap? i'm falling more in love with the idea by the day.
w/ BE and jones in contract years, could they really afford Boldin? i think you need to recoup K 1/4ths cap room somehow.
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