Is This Progress

The Gipper

A Question to Ask is: Is This Team Making Progress?

Here are the scores of the first 5 games of 2009:

20-34 Loss to Minnesota

6-27 Loss to Denver

3-34 Loss to Baltimore

20-23 Loss to Cincinnati

6-3 Win over Buffalo

Compare to 2010's scores for the first 5 games:

14-17 Loss to Tampa Bay

14-16 Loss to Kansas City

17-24 Loss to Baltimore

23-20 Win over Cincinnati

10-20 Loss to Atlanta

In the 4 losses in 2009 the average margin of points lost by were 17.5 points. In the 4 losses in 2010 the average margin of points lost by are 5.5.

The glass half full types would say that the Browns have improved by a full 12 point average differential per game over last year, and that every team the Browns have played so far have either a 4-1 or 3-1 record.

Is that a reasonable way to look at this? And should it be a cause for optimism?

blowe

Yes sir! This team IS improving and the fanbase needs to remain patient. Like the rest of you guys, I HATE losing. I never get used to it, and it hurts just as much every single week. But the bright spots are there. Our defense has improved. We are playing competitive football. We have had chances to win every single game so far this year. That is so much better than last season where we were blown out by the second quarter..

Give this coaching staff some time. They are making due with the little talent they have. I wish we were drafting better, but we have seen a few gems come out of the Mangini era (Ward/Haden/Mack will be studs someday)

We need a wide receiver and a quarterback, and once we get those this looks like it could be a dominant power-running team. AFC NORTH FOOTBALL BABY! And with the way we have played physical with all our opponents we are no longer the creampuff of this division. We may be a victory to the Ravens and the Steelers, but we sure as hell don't go down without a fight anymore. I look for this team to be winning the close games by the end of the season (depending on our QB's health) and next season I look for them to take the next step to win some damn football games.

The losses have stung much less this year knowing that we are not a laughing stock...knowing that we are competing with 1 loss teams.

GO BROWNS

hoorta

Also, no one thought before the season started Kansas City and Tampa were going to be that good at this point. OTOH, We did draft after they did, and we have the four losses.

Yeah, mistakes and bad luck are killing the Browns. Shoulda, coulda- couple less breakdowns and it's the Browns who are 4-1.

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
Sure they are!
They have been in every game and they are losing because of a host of small things:

Short on talent

Short on time in the new system

Short on coaching

These things will all slowly come together producing a 5-6 win season and promise for next year.

Problem is.................

They have a system for the first time in forever but it is all unknown just how good that system can be. With no shake up or change, they will surely become a .500 team in the next few years but is the combination of coaching and system good enough to go beyond that?.......................only time will tell. They still have a dipship for an owner.

Believe it or not, I am not that concerned about the HC. It is the OC that concerns me most. And yes, they are short on talent in a variety of areas. Certain area have been improve: DBs, OL. Some areas have glaring issues: QB, WR, DL pass rush.

And as long as the owner shuts up and pays the bills, who cares? It is the person running the football operations that counts. The biggest dipshit owner perhaps in NFL history even got his team to win a SB...can you say Art Modell....though that is really a misnomer because Modell was reall NOT the beneficial owner of that team, Biscotti was. Modell was simply being allowed to hang on while the seat was warm.

Gafreleets

making progress?

only in cleveland.

you guys "progress" is like being "a little less dead".

i guess in stainland you gotta take what you can get.

"0-16!!!!!! but we lost every game by only 1 point!!!! that's progress out the wazooo!!!!"

TheClevelandSound

Yes we could easily say "we should be 5-0 or 4-1". A lot of factors in games haven't bounced our way. But this is a massive improvement and I don't think anyones going to be able to tell until later in the season.

BrownIndian

@gafreleets said:
making progress?
only in cleveland.

you guys "progress" is like being "a little less dead".

i guess in stainland you gotta take what you can get.

"0-16!!!!!! but we lost every game by only 1 point!!!! that's progress out the wazooo!!!!"

We are 1 - 4, while we were 0 - 5 last year at this point. That would mean progress across the entire universe except in Gafreleets land. You are the type of dumb band-wagoner that the Steeler fandom or any intelligent fan base do not need.

Gafreleets

@brownindian said:
We are 1 - 4, while we were 0 - 5 last year at this point. That would mean progress across the entire universe except in Gafreleets land. You are the type of dumb band-wagoner that the Steeler fandom or any intelligent fan base do not need.

maybe we just have a different definition of "progress".

have you manage to win one game of your first 5? yes.

is it gonna matter at the end of the season? probably not.

are you guys contenders for a championship? most definately not.

BrownIndian

@gafreleets said:
maybe we just have a different definition of "progress".
have you manage to win one game of your first 5? yes.

is it gonna matter at the end of the season? probably not.

are you guys contenders for a championship? most definately not.

fair enough .

The games we are playing this year are far more entertaining and close. Although we are on the losing side we give it more than a fight and sometimes when I reflect on the game it seems as though with a little bit of If's and But's we might have won the game. That was never the case last year.

Also the players and the product on the field is much better than what we had last year. As much as we Browns fans argue about the Delhomme or Wallace issue, we are glad to have that problem than the Anderson / Quinn debate. Also we have less holes to fill than last year. Sure we are not playoff caliber yet but, before we learn to run we gotta learn to walk ....

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
You can't make that claim about Modell. He was the scapegoat victim of the city of Cleveland's infinite stupidity.
Don't f**king even bring your ignorance and stupidity to bear here on that subject.

The reason my comment about Lerner being a dipshit is relative is because the big name guy who may be needed to replace Mangini simply isn't going to come work for a dipshit owner is a shithole city. History proves this to be correct.

More complete and utter ignorance. There are only 32 NFL jobs available, and in any given year only a handful. IF a coach is going to make himself available for a job, they they will look to any job that might be available.

IF Mangini were to be replaced, then the list of candidates for the Browns job would be le creme de la creme of whomever is out there: Gruden, Cowher, you name it.

The only caveat's are that Gruden might actually want to become the next John Madden and make his name in the annoucing venue and not the coaching venue. Cowher could be the same....or he may want to be what Holmgren was in Seattle...King of the Castle. Coach and GM. Though I don't think that is a good idea, some of these guys may still want that. Cowher isn't going to get that in Cleveland now, but he could possibly get it in say, Buffalo or Carolina. Ownership or the city wouldn't be the issue. Gruden is FROM NE Ohio..Sandusky. Cowher of course played here. They all know the quality of Cleveland as a football town. Cowher might prefer Carolina because he has certain roots there, but if he wanted to get back into coaching, and Carolina were not available and Cleveland was, he would not hesitate to come here. The same would basically be true for anyone else not mentioned.

The Gipper

@gafreleets said:
making progress?
only in cleveland.

you guys "progress" is like being "a little less dead".

i guess in stainland you gotta take what you can get.

"0-16!!!!!! but we lost every game by only 1 point!!!! that's progress out the wazooo!!!!"

Well, in a way, it would be if the season before you lost every game by 20 points.

The fact is, last year the Browns were getting blown out of games by an average of 17.5 points a game.

Now it is only 5.5 pts. per game. And they have had the lead in the 4th quarter of every game, where last year they were out of it at halftime.

So, they are being more competitive, if not actually turning around the scoreboard. They have had their chances now, where last year they had no chance.

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
If if's and but were candies and nuts, every day would be Christmas.
The 49ers, Panthers, Bill, and Lions could say the same thing. Actually, the Lions are for real, they have played tough teams and battled with them pretty nicely!

So, uh, are you saying that teams that have 3-1, 3-1,4-1, and 3-1 records are not tough teams? And that losing by 3-2-7-10 point isn't "battling" them?

The Gipper

@brownindian said:
fair enough .
The games we are playing this year are far more entertaining and close. Although we are on the losing side we give it more than a fight and sometimes when I reflect on the game it seems as though with a little bit of If's and But's we might have won the game. That was never the case last year.

Also the players and the product on the field is much better than what we had last year. As much as we Browns fans argue about the Delhomme or Wallace issue, we are glad to have that problem than the Anderson / Quinn debate. Also we have less holes to fill than last year. Sure we are not playoff caliber yet but, before we learn to run we gotta learn to walk ....

Note this: In 3 games this year the Browns have given up an Interception for a TD which have essentially been the margin of loss in each game. The Browns offense has practically had as many points scored on it as the Browns defense.

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
You can't make that claim about Modell. He was the scapegoat victim of the city of Cleveland's infinite stupidity.
Don't f**king even bring your ignorance and stupidity to bear here on that subject. Touch a nerve with some reality you don't want to admit?

No, its just that it is so old and wrong that it is hardly worth wasting breath over.

The reason my comment about Lerner being a dipshit is relative is because the big name guy who may be needed to replace Mangini simply isn't going to come work for a dipshit owner is a shithole city. History proves this to be correct.

More complete and utter ignorance. There are only 32 NFL jobs available, and in any given year only a handful. IF a coach is going to make himself available for a job, they they will look to any job that might be available.

IF Mangini were to be replaced, then the list of candidates for the Browns job would be le creme de la creme of whomever is out there: Gruden, Cowher, you name it.

The only caveat's are that Gruden might actually want to become the next John Madden and make his name in the annoucing venue and not the coaching venue. Cowher could be the same....or he may want to be what Holmgren was in Seattle...King of the Castle. Coach and GM. Though I don't think that is a good idea, some of these guys may still want that. Cowher isn't going to get that in Cleveland now, but he could possibly get it in say, Buffalo or Carolina. Ownership or the city wouldn't be the issue. Gruden is FROM NE Ohio..Sandusky. Cowher of course played here. They all know the quality of Cleveland as a football town. Cowher might prefer Carolina because he has certain roots there, but if he wanted to get back into coaching, and Carolina were not available and Cleveland was, he would not hesitate to come here. The same would basically be true for anyone else not mentioned.

Really? Give it up..........Cleveland will NEVER see a top named coach here.....NEVER. Want proof? look back at your history! You are so cute when you get your panties in a bunch! You're a hoot dude

Yes, sure I want proof. From you. Please, by all means relate the "history" that you refer to. I am unaware of what you are talking about.

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
WOW.....you need to put down the Geritol! That's not even close to what I said.

Then clarify exactly what it is you mean.

1 more season

Whether you consider this season progress or not with either Colt or Brett possibly starting against the Steelers it doesn't look good.

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
Go back to post #15, it's stated pretty clear there.

Actually, Post #15 was made by me. Perhaps you meant post #8. Since things were not clear at all, perhaps I will simply start over with a simple question:

Do you believe that the Browns have played some tough teams thus far and do you believe they have battled them nicely?

miktoxic

@the-gipper said:
Do you believe that the Browns have played some tough teams thus far and do you believe they have battled them nicely?

i know this question was directed to stone but i'll chime in quickly:

IMO i think cincy sucks, tampa and kc are playing above their heads and the ravens and atlanta are at the tops of their divisions. we played all these teams tough and there should be a couple of more wins in our favor. that's no excuse though. there are some glaring weaknesses on this team. no pass rush, some soft play in the secondary (not our rookies) to date our qb play is not up to par and we have no receivers. but we are making progress. just win some games already.

miktoxic

Formerly Stone said:
I'm honestly curious, exactly what do you believe happened in these games which should equate to a couple more wins for the Browns?

i said there is no excuses for them losing. what happened in those games are mistakes and the fact that we lack talent at some positions and got burned by the opposition. turnovers at key times have killed us. should a, could a would a. no excuse. (sigh in disgust)

Gips

While there has been progress it is simply not enough as compared to other clubs, this is the nfl its not highschool ball and the linear offensive coaching plays an enormous role in this teams inability to move forward...

The mangini love will die out over time when more fans actually notice how poorly coached this team is and as the players one by one just quit on the field like braylon, poole, thomas and harrison are doing in hopes of being traded and i cant blame them...

You can see it if you take off the blinders and look at the players and im sure holmgren knows it....