Realistic Progress vrs Premature Kneejerks
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I think the next two games will decide Mangini's fate.
Lose to Buffalo and Cincy... finish under .500... gone...
Beat Buffalo and Cincy, lose to The Stillers and Ratbirds... finish under .500... TOSS UP.
Win 3 of last 4 games, finish 8-8... Mangini gets one more year.
If this is the ONLY measuring stick then I think you are underestimating Mike Holmgren AND at the same time ignoring Mangini's entire body of work.
But I digress.
Fluges,
Un-freakin-believable post. One of the best I've read in a long time. You touched on a topic that's been on my mind ever since Rex took the podium in New York last year. My thought at the time was: "This guy talks a big game, but how will he be when adversity strikes?"
Make no mistake, Rex inherited a ready-made situation for success. He even admitted as much this year. Mangini had a hand in that. Was EM the sole reason for the level of talent? Of course not, but his fingerprints are all over that team when you look at how his moves here have echoed the ones he made in NY in terms of roster upgrades. So Rex comes in with Pro Bowl talent at cornerback, linebacker, defensive tackle, wide receiver, tight end, left tackle, center, and running back. Then he manages to go 7-7 in his first fourteen games. But he's got style and personality!!! He's good for a soundbite or two!!
But then they won two in the playoffs and he became legit. All credit to Rex for that, but yet no one was willing to write about how the Jets were just abysmal against lesser talent last year.
Then this year begins and he runs his mouth about the Patriots (again) and their first opponent, the Ravens. Then they go out and get beat by Baltimore in Week 1 without an offensive TD. Then in Week 2, they beat NE and again people are ready to anoint him as God. Meanwhile, EM loses a toughie to Baltimore on the road and whips the Pats at home and yet we still talk about his job security.
The Jets then win games they were all but beat in against inferior opponents Detroit and Houston. Then, without a Stuckey fumble, we get them in Week 10. Meanwhile, the Browns, in perhaps their poorest outing of the 2010 season, are lucky to beat Carolina. So in New York, they write about the resiliency and grit of the Jets, while elsewhere the Browns are playing down to their competition. Of course that makes sense because the Browns at that point had played two teams with losing records and had beaten both and their seven losses had come to teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today. Yet would anyone with any sanity claim that the Browns have comparable talent to the Jets?
Then finally Monday night happened and Billy and the boys decided it was time to tell Emperor Rex and the NY media that Sexy Rexy was, in fact, strutting around naked this whole time. 45-3? Are you kidding me? What the hell did NY do during those 10 preparation days? Oh, that's right, they searched for the cameras and audio recorders.
Look, Rex is a good coach, but an elite one? I think not. Is Mangini an elite one? No, and no one is ready to put him in that category until he can have some success in January.
But that being said, I will take Eric as our coach over Rex any day of the week. This is real progress, Browns fans.
Am I satisfied with a 5-7 record? Of course not.
Am I excited about the future of our team under Eric? You betcha.
Am I thrilled about the potential of Haden, Ward, and McCoy? Yep.
Am I enjoying watching castoffs/misfits on this squad play their sacks off every Sunday and then profess their love for the fans of this franchise? Absolutely.
Do I think this team is a playoff contender in 2011? Certainly, and I expect it to happen.
Am I satisfied with a 5-7 record? Of course not.
Am I excited about the future of our team under Eric? You betcha.
Am I thrilled about the potential of Haden, Ward, and McCoy? Yep.
Am I enjoying watching castoffs/misfits on this squad play their sacks off every Sunday and then profess their love for the fans of this franchise? Absolutely.
Do I think this team is a playoff contender in 2011? Certainly, and I expect it to happen.
AWESOME!! sums it up for me.
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I think the next two games will decide Mangini's fate.
Lose to Buffalo and Cincy... finish under .500... gone...
Beat Buffalo and Cincy, lose to The Stillers and Ratbirds... finish under .500... TOSS UP.
Win 3 of last 4 games, finish 8-8... Mangini gets one more year.
If this is the ONLY measuring stick then I think you are underestimating Mike Holmgren AND at the same time ignoring Mangini's entire body of work.
But I digress.
Fluges,
Un-freakin-believable post. One of the best I've read in a long time. You touched on a topic that's been on my mind ever since Rex took the podium in New York last year. My thought at the time was: "This guy talks a big game, but how will he be when adversity strikes?"
Make no mistake, Rex inherited a ready-made situation for success. He even admitted as much this year. Mangini had a hand in that. Was EM the sole reason for the level of talent? Of course not, but his fingerprints are all over that team when you look at how his moves here have echoed the ones he made in NY in terms of roster upgrades. So Rex comes in with Pro Bowl talent at cornerback, linebacker, defensive tackle, wide receiver, tight end, left tackle, center, and running back. Then he manages to go 7-7 in his first fourteen games. But he's got style and personality!!! He's good for a soundbite or two!!
But then they won two in the playoffs and he became legit. All credit to Rex for that, but yet no one was willing to write about how the Jets were just abysmal against lesser talent last year.
Then this year begins and he runs his mouth about the Patriots (again) and their first opponent, the Ravens. Then they go out and get beat by Baltimore in Week 1 without an offensive TD. Then in Week 2, they beat NE and again people are ready to anoint him as God. Meanwhile, EM loses a toughie to Baltimore on the road and whips the Pats at home and yet we still talk about his job security.
The Jets then win games they were all but beat in against inferior opponents Detroit and Houston. Then, without a Stuckey fumble, we get them in Week 10. Meanwhile, the Browns, in perhaps their poorest outing of the 2010 season, are lucky to beat Carolina. So in New York, they write about the resiliency and grit of the Jets, while elsewhere the Browns are playing down to their competition. Of course that makes sense because the Browns at that point had played two teams with losing records and had beaten both and their seven losses had come to teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today. Yet would anyone with any sanity claim that the Browns have comparable talent to the Jets?
Then finally Monday night happened and Billy and the boys decided it was time to tell Emperor Rex and the NY media that Sexy Rexy was, in fact, strutting around naked this whole time. 45-3? Are you kidding me? What the hell did NY do during those 10 preparation days? Oh, that's right, they searched for the cameras and audio recorders.
Look, Rex is a good coach, but an elite one? I think not. Is Mangini an elite one? No, and no one is ready to put him in that category until he can have some success in January.
But that being said, I will take Eric as our coach over Rex any day of the week. This is real progress, Browns fans.
Am I satisfied with a 5-7 record? Of course not.
Am I excited about the future of our team under Eric? You betcha.
Am I thrilled about the potential of Haden, Ward, and McCoy? Yep.
Am I enjoying watching castoffs/misfits on this squad play their sacks off every Sunday and then profess their love for the fans of this franchise? Absolutely.
Do I think this team is a playoff contender in 2011? Certainly, and I expect it to happen.
If this is the ONLY measuring stick then I think you are underestimating Mike Holmgren AND at the same time ignoring Mangini's entire body of work.
But I digress.
Fluges,
Un-freakin-believable post. One of the best I've read in a long time. You touched on a topic that's been on my mind ever since Rex took the podium in New York last year. My thought at the time was: "This guy talks a big game, but how will he be when adversity strikes?"
Make no mistake, Rex inherited a ready-made situation for success. He even admitted as much this year. Mangini had a hand in that. Was EM the sole reason for the level of talent? Of course not, but his fingerprints are all over that team when you look at how his moves here have echoed the ones he made in NY in terms of roster upgrades. So Rex comes in with Pro Bowl talent at cornerback, linebacker, defensive tackle, wide receiver, tight end, left tackle, center, and running back. Then he manages to go 7-7 in his first fourteen games. But he's got style and personality!!! He's good for a soundbite or two!!
But then they won two in the playoffs and he became legit. All credit to Rex for that, but yet no one was willing to write about how the Jets were just abysmal against lesser talent last year.
Then this year begins and he runs his mouth about the Patriots (again) and their first opponent, the Ravens. Then they go out and get beat by Baltimore in Week 1 without an offensive TD. Then in Week 2, they beat NE and again people are ready to anoint him as God. Meanwhile, EM loses a toughie to Baltimore on the road and whips the Pats at home and yet we still talk about his job security.
The Jets then win games they were all but beat in against inferior opponents Detroit and Houston. Then, without a Stuckey fumble, we get them in Week 10. Meanwhile, the Browns, in perhaps their poorest outing of the 2010 season, are lucky to beat Carolina. So in New York, they write about the resiliency and grit of the Jets, while elsewhere the Browns are playing down to their competition. Of course that makes sense because the Browns at that point had played two teams with losing records and had beaten both and their seven losses had come to teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today. Yet would anyone with any sanity claim that the Browns have comparable talent to the Jets?
Then finally Monday night happened and Billy and the boys decided it was time to tell Emperor Rex and the NY media that Sexy Rexy was, in fact, strutting around naked this whole time. 45-3? Are you kidding me? What the hell did NY do during those 10 preparation days? Oh, that's right, they searched for the cameras and audio recorders.
Look, Rex is a good coach, but an elite one? I think not. Is Mangini an elite one? No, and no one is ready to put him in that category until he can have some success in January.
But that being said, I will take Eric as our coach over Rex any day of the week. This is real progress, Browns fans.
Am I satisfied with a 5-7 record? Of course not.
Am I excited about the future of our team under Eric? You betcha.
Am I thrilled about the potential of Haden, Ward, and McCoy? Yep.
Am I enjoying watching castoffs/misfits on this squad play their sacks off every Sunday and then profess their love for the fans of this franchise? Absolutely.
Do I think this team is a playoff contender in 2011? Certainly, and I expect it to happen.
Great stuff and thanks for the kind words NW Ohio! Whenever I get frustrated my dad always asks me if I remember the last 8 games of 2008 when body by Savage was buried approximately 3 minutes after every coin toss. Like it or not, Cleveland is a roster in transition that ONLY inherited 4 draft picks for the 2009 draft after only netting 1 keeper from the 2008 draft. Aside from that, we had free agent artery blockages named Donte Stallworth, Dave Zastudil, Antwaan Peek, Shaun Smith, Corey Williams, Jamal Lewis (how dare asking a millionaire to extend his work day over 2 hours). Savage gave a Head Coach with a 3-4 scheme for 2 gap football upfront 4 different dlinemen that came from 4 man fronts with 1 gap schemes: Robaire came from TN, Rogers from Detroit, Williams from GB and Smith from Cincy. The only guy playing from that group today is Rogers, who backs up Rubin.
I don't think Mangini's biggest critics grasp who bad Stallworth & Edwards boned this franchise in 2009 so they jumped straight to round 2 and felt that was enough evidence for a fair conclusion. How about ADDING 4 more draft picks and several starting rotation guys from the Jets 9-7 defense from 08? This actually what Mangini added BEFORE Holmgren and Heckert:
1) Brian Schaefering - was there a more silent transaction made than this guy that is so helpful on gameday? There can't be!
2) David Bowens - he may be old, he may be tired but that doesn't mean he's unispired...
3) Marcus Benard - Ummmm, who gives a shit about Veikune when this guy is everythign we wanted Veikune to be at less cake.
4) Alex Mack - Quietly one of the reasons our running game became unstoppable near the end of 09 and helps Hillis this year.
5) Kenyon Coleman - Was having one of his best years prior to a high ankle sprain.
6) Matt Roth - you want sic em, sock em & sack em? The former DI wrestler epitomizes playing with leverage & removing an OT's legs.
7) Evan Moore - I like the way Evansville Central gets stealthed into the lineup for big plays.
Reggie Hodges - STs player of the month leading the NFL with punts inside the 10 yard line9) Derreck Robinson - solid rotation guy
10) MoMass - Let's see what he looks like when we add a #1 WR or ex-factor next year
11) Chansi Stuckey - I see enough improvenet in him to wonder why they don't start him over Robo
12) Abram Elam - Count the big plays and turnovers since the NE game and/or the absence of Eric Wright
13) Blake Costanzo - was a STs ace until injury
14) Jason Trusnik - good backup that can play inside or outside
15) Eric Barton - Not one of my favorite ex-Jets here; but D'Qwell is injured again so the staff thinks enough of him to start him.
16) Pork Chop Womack - we're always better when he's healthy enough to start on the right side. He's not the one we confuse with Lee Ann Womack. That was Kevin's Shaffer.
Now, how many of those 15 guys I listed look like they came from a guy that doesn't know whether to shit or wynde his wrist watch? Trust me when I say - Mangini knows more than people think he does. When need every damn one of them and they all seem to rotate in with starters and/or spell injury. Therefore, I don't really understand the popularity of criticism about his HOW he was at making personnel decisions. There's always going to be draftees that don't pan out like BB drafting Tommy Vardell in round 1 when Leroy Hoard was already on the roster or drafting Craig Powell, because God forbid someone took Kyle Brady 1 spot earlier in round 1.
Just like BB, Mangini's biggest obstacle to winning has been the QB position. BB treated us to football follies by Todd Philcox and he was WINLESS in NE the day Bledsoe was injured and 0-3 or 0-4. Brady took over and he's looked like a genius ever since. Mangini wasn't losing in NY when Favre and Pennington were healthy.
What the NY media never wanted any of us to know is Mangini was a college Nose Tackle at Wesleyan College who still holds team records for sacks in 1 season and for a career at that college. I don't have the numbers fresh in my dome but it's archivable goodies for anyone that wants to research it further. The NY media wanted everyone thinking the extent of his football background was being a ballboy on the sidelines.
- Tom F.
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Well said Flugs..I believe Mangini was an Academic All American at Wesleyan and still their career sack leader also.. What I admire about this "process" is Coach Mangini's belief in what type of players should be playing for our Browns and despite ENORMOUS media scrutiny and pressure he stuck to his plan and beliefs..Thats freakin balls..Holmgren doing the right thing tells you the kind of person he is also...I for one appreciate what I'm watching..despite numerous injuries Mangini and the CS seems to adjust and keep moving forward..We haven't heard one "alas woe is me" about losing his best LB-Fujita and his best DL man Smith..NO..next guy up..this is called depth and great coaching fella's..plain and simple..
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In the face of EXTREME media & Fan criticism, Mangini has stuck steadfastly to his plan & beliefs. We are seeing the results of his plan this year, & to a greater degree than I anticipated.
He is the type of principled Coach we have needed in Cleveland for a LONG time & we're lucky to have him.
Mike
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In the face of EXTREME media & Fan criticism, Mangini has stuck steadfastly to his plan & beliefs. We are seeing the results of his plan this year, & to a greater degree than I anticipated.
He is the type of principled Coach we have needed in Cleveland for a LONG time & we're lucky to have him.
Mike
In the face of EXTREME media & Fan criticism, Mangini has stuck steadfastly to his plan & beliefs. We are seeing the results of his plan this year, & to a greater degree than I anticipated.
He is the type of principled Coach we have needed in Cleveland for a LONG time & we're lucky to have him.
Mike
Where do you see or hear fan criticism? i'm asking specifically?
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In the face of EXTREME media & Fan criticism, Mangini has stuck steadfastly to his plan & beliefs. We are seeing the results of his plan this year, & to a greater degree than I anticipated.
He is the type of principled Coach we have needed in Cleveland for a LONG time & we're lucky to have him.
Mike
Where do you see or hear fan criticism? i'm asking specifically?
Where do you see or hear fan criticism? i'm asking specifically?
You see very little now, but last year, there were PLENTY of fans screaming for Mangini's head before the man even had a full season under his belt. I'm not going to go back to look up posts, but if you follow this board, you know he was under severe & frequent fan criticism. The reasoning in my statement was that he never wavered in his convictions, & that is to be admired.
Mike
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Personally I think Holmgren and Mangini have bonded is a way that will be good for a long time and Cleveland is going to be a team that other teams hate to play in the future. The best GM's and coaches keep a low profile and do what they think is best, despite what everyone else says. These two guys know what they are doing.
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In the face of EXTREME media & Fan criticism, Mangini has stuck steadfastly to his plan & beliefs. We are seeing the results of his plan this year, & to a greater degree than I anticipated.
He is the type of principled Coach we have needed in Cleveland for a LONG time & we're lucky to have him.
Mike
Where do you see or hear fan criticism? i'm asking specifically?
Where do you see or hear fan criticism? i'm asking specifically?
Just trot over to Cleveland.com Ed- that's in the first ten posts, I won't bother to go over any more of the vitriol. However, they do encourage certified morons to post comments after a loss.
LORDLVJ:
JD - You say you have to give a coach more than 2 years but you want to fire Daboll, isn't he a coach as well? Mangini hand picked Daboll to come here and approves all of the offensive calls. I'm sure there are meetings to discuss what type of gameplan to run week by week, Mangini is not in the dark about the offense, he hears the plays called and could easily veto anything he doesn't like yet he doesn't. Mangini is responsible for Daboll, if Daboll should be fired then so should the man who hired him.
TEEMSTRO:
Not the worst team by far but Mangina and Daboll definitely have to go.
JASONJACKSON:
What else can be said about this team? This is clearly the worst team in the NFL. The Clowns show up for the Saints and the Patriots and the Jets, but get walked all over on by the Bills? The entire team should be packed up and shipped out; players, coaches and management. I want to start a campaign to get pro football back to Cleveland.
HILLDOZER:
sorry to tell you
manginis gone
not one TD against the nfls worst team
yet the talent can spank the jets
run run pass punt
FIREMANGININOW
Rome wasn't built in a day...but it can be destroyed in a day.
Right now we are seeing Mangini and Daboll are doing their best to run this team into the ground and set the franchise back 5 years.
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Funny thing is that the browns won 4 games last year to save mangini job, could lose 4 straight to cost him his job..
Mangini don't let the door hit ya on the way out...
Gruden is a great guy and coach
Funny thing is that the browns won 4 games last year to save mangini job, could lose 4 straight to cost him his job..
Mangini don't let the door hit ya on the way out...
Gruden is a great guy and coach
With Playoff viable teams like Vikes, Cowboys looking for a coach why would Gruden choose Cleveland ? Also he seems comfortable in the ESPN booth. Why would he want to run away from a safe job like that ?
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