Getting a little more than irritated at this Mangini stuff

[shepwrite]

That's a terrific post, NW... even if I don't agree with every assertion, it's really good stuff.

I think an organization needs to be on the same page. I was in favor of Holmgren building an organization from the ground up, frankly. Holmgren (and Gruden, for that matter) see the game more like I do: It's first and foremost about the quarterback. Both guys have said it over and over and over, which I love.

Holmgren is a WCO guy down to his soul. It's what he believes in. And if we believe in Holmgren, we should at least be interested in him running "our" team with the systems he believes to be the smartest, right?

I don't hate Mangini. In fact, I like the way he's evolved from last year to this year. He's even occasionally funny in a dry way. I do NOT like the way he sees or manages the quarterback position. I blame both Holmgren and Mangini for the Delhomme fiasco, but the only think worse than signing him is continuing to play him when he looks like well burned toast. Immobile and weak-armed to go with his usual sketchy decision making.

Mangini has shown a penchant for playing games, not announcing starters to the team or media, sticking with shitty veterans, and believing he can win with guys like Kellen Clemens, Chad Pennington with a shot arm, or Jake Delhomme with a shot everything. I just don't feel a great deal of confidence in how he handles the most important position in team sports.

Gruden is a former QB who has said over and over, if you don't have your quarterback, you have nothing. And if you do? Everything else is a hell of a lot easier. He and Holmgren have also repeatedly said that the best teams tend to be those with the best quarterbacks... as well as continuity at QB and head coach. I would add that sticking to one offensive system is pretty key, too. None of the top quarterbacks have had to change systems like, say, Alex Smith.

Do we have the one we wanna run for the next 10-12 years of Colt's career? No. We don't. And I believe WCO guy Holmgren picked McCoy because he saw a WCO quarterback. That's what Gil Brandt told him and that's what every draftnick said: McCoy is a WCO quarterback. He's Jeff Garcia with even better wheels, an extra inch of height, and more zing. Garcia Plus.

I think this team has a lot of pieces and will add the rest in the offseason, so we'll be about as good as Colt McCoy is, plain and simple. And I just don't know if Mangini is the guy to be a part of Team McCoy, as Steve D. discussed. I like Holmgren and Haskell being there, and I even get the notion of Delhomme being his safety blanket.

But I'm not sure about Mangini.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

Shep,

One thing I want you and others to please consider is this: Mangini's perceived philosophy on quarterbacks has been tainted by what he has had to work with at all positions on offense. I don't think it's fair to say he doesn't have the right idea about offensive football when he's worked with Delhomme, Pennington, and journeyman skill guys, etc.

What I am saying is this: Mangini will allow the QB to win the game for him when the QB CAN win the game for him. Mangini will allow the offense to open up once the right QB is there. You saw it in the New England game and the Jets game as well when Colt was playing well.

Let's not forget how Belichick was winning games here in 1992 with Tomczak in there during Bernie's injury. I hate to use this as an example, but it's the best Browns-related one I have. Win the game with your defense and running game, and put the QB in position to make plays from time to time. Tomczak wasn't going to lead that rotten-ass team to the playoffs, just like Jake can't do it here. Lo and behold, Vinny comes along in 1993, Bill cuts Bernie, and then in '94, bingo, the Browns are in the playoffs on the arm of Testaverde.

That model is similar to what Mangini HAS to do NOW, THIS year. With Colt most likely the guy next year, and with a better OC, BOOM, we could be partying like it's 1994. The offense will be and should be trusted more next year with EM here.

[BrownsFan4Evr]

While I like Gruden, he's from my hometown, and I've met him personally (nice guy really) I think Mangini has done a good job, and we should keep him at least another year to see what he can do with a better roster.

[Kosar_For_President]

And I don't think many of us are calling Gruden a bad coach. I like the guy and think he is a great coach. But we can't keep changing coaches, it doesn't promote a healthy system.

[DawgTracker]

imho if mangini is forced out he will win a super bowl before the browns do. Imagine mangini taking over a very talented dallas team as an example. But, god better help holmgren if mangini ended up taking over an underachieving bengals team.

[shepwrite]

If the Browns fire Mangini, I think he's a DC for a couple years. He hasn't done anything to shoot up the must-have list.

[Canton Mike]

I'm sick of this anti Mangini crap too, so here's my take. The talent has been upgraded, so IF Mangini is fired, Gruden (or whomever might be the new Coach), had BETTER, with their supposed SUPERIOR coaching ability, lead us to at least ONE playoff win their first year & the Super Bowl their second, or Holmgren AND the new "Super Coach" better be fired! Does that sound ridiculous? Maybe, but why? Certainly, according to many, we should be a playoff team today when Mangini started with ZILCH!

GAWD, I'm beginning to think Gruden is gay & all his lovers post on this board. BTW, how many offers from top teams did he turn down before re-upping his broadcasting job last year? Really in demand, hunh?

Mike

[choco]

I don't even care anymore....I've resigned to idea that most people are quite literally morons and choose and opinion based on agenda rather than common sense.

Yup....we didn't go from the basement of the league to playoff contender in less than 2 years. A few other teams managed to do it....with no sustained success. Why can't we?

Just keep tearing it down and rebuilding.....it gives us something to talk about. Demanding a winner isn't gonna make it happen overnight. So let's just keep on firing everyone tilll someone gets lucky and we make the playoffs. After 10 years, we're so muchb of a better team after continujously turning over coaches, right? Why not stick with what works?

I alost hate to say this, but we've been losing so long that most of you couldnt spot a winner if it smack u in the face.

[peterbell]

When Mangini has had a healthy QB he is 18-9,,Chad in 2006,,Brett 8-3 till his arm fell off..This league is about consistent good QB play.

.The fact the Browns won 5 freakin games last year is literally a miracle wit those two scrubs

.The fact Mangini cast off 26 Browns (players) and only 2 are now in the NFL tells you how horrible this roster was before Mangini showed up and took out the trash.

Coach Mangini stays

I love Coach Mangini,” he said. “He made me the player I am, and he brought me here. I respect him. I think he’s a great head coach, a terrific defensive coordinator and I want him to stay.

-Payton Hillis-

[Gips]

@dawgtracker said:

imho if mangini is forced out he will win a super bowl before the browns do. Imagine mangini taking over a very talented dallas team as an example. But, god better help holmgren if mangini ended up taking over an underachieving bengals team.

Yeah right mangini is to mediocre and unintuitive to get anywhere without a premade championship team, he couldnt even get the jets to the playoffs, blame it on who you want but i agree with the jets it was mangini, the guy made a bad choice in hiring a friend as an assistant coach and betrayed the fans, lerner and even holmgren..he has to go and i say this with not a second thought..

If by some miracle magngini survives he will not survive but until the bye week next year, he does not have what it takes, however lamonte's stable is weak minus gruden or even getting ryan to be the HC are the only alternatives to firing mangini otherwise we may be better to keep him simply because we know how bad he actually sucks but some of lamontes guys like Mornhinweg or fox both suck as bad or worse..

And yeah all the mangini crap for and against is getting old but we wont have to tolerate it much longer