Bye Bye Mangini
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I must be "different". As a Browns fan I want them to get to the playoffs in a year or two max. I want them to stay in the playoff's about 70-80% of the time from then on. I want them to be able to consistently beat the teams in their division. I want them to have a good mix of younger and older talent. I want them to have a front office that is second to none. I want them to have coaches that expect to win AND DO WIN with whatever talent they have....coaches that will figure out a way to win with the players they have, come those "short on talent years" or unexpected injuries. I want depth in all positions which requires good drafting and an understanding of player personnel GIVEN THE TALENT AND HEALTHY PLAYERS PRESENT THAT YEAR. I want some real stars, game changers on both sides of the ball. But most of all, I want fans that expect/demand greatness and aren't willing to wait for their 6 year old to graduate from college before the Browns have a once-a-decade playoff experience.
WINNING grows success, not getting a little better each year. Winning attitudes, work ethic and RESULTS maintain success. In the end, it has to be all about winning. Having "competitors" is great, but it only achieves the desired results if those "competitors" are also "winners". What if next year we get great talent and 4-5 key players get hurt. Then we are going to hear how Mangini shouldn't be held responsible and he should get another chance. Other coaches and players win with whoever they have BECAUSE THEY ARE WINNERS. Indy is a good example this year. Just look at how they dealt with their offensive injuries and losses. Their record has suffered but they are still in a tie for the top of their division.
Pittsburgh and Baltimore have twice the wins we do at this point in the season. "Being competitive" to the Browns should mean we can compete with the Steelers and Ravens AT WINNING, not losing like Cincy, Buffalo, etc. It also means, even if we have a 10 win season, but we are still 3rd in the division it has been an unacceptable season.
Oh and by the way, the whole "Mangenius" thing was born when Mangini turned a team around in O-N-E year.
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I must be "different". As a Browns fan I want them to get to the playoffs in a year or two max. I want them to stay in the playoff's about 70-80% of the time from then on. I want them to be able to consistently beat the teams in their division. I want them to have a good mix of younger and older talent. I want them to have a front office that is second to none. I want them to have coaches that expect to win AND DO WIN with whatever talent they have....coaches that will figure out a way to win with the players they have, come those "short on talent years" or unexpected injuries. I want depth in all positions which requires good drafting and an understanding of player personnel GIVEN THE TALENT AND HEALTHY PLAYERS PRESENT THAT YEAR. I want some real stars, game changers on both sides of the ball. But most of all, I want fans that expect/demand greatness and aren't willing to wait for their 6 year old to graduate from college before the Browns have a once-a-decade playoff experience.
WINNING grows success, not getting a little better each year. Winning attitudes, work ethic and RESULTS maintain success. In the end, it has to be all about winning. Having "competitors" is great, but it only achieves the desired results if those "competitors" are also "winners". What if next year we get great talent and 4-5 key players get hurt. Then we are going to hear how Mangini shouldn't be held responsible and he should get another chance. Other coaches and players win with whoever they have BECAUSE THEY ARE WINNERS. Indy is a good example this year. Just look at how they dealt with their offensive injuries and losses. Their record has suffered but they are still in a tie for the top of their division.
Pittsburgh and Baltimore have twice the wins we do at this point in the season. "Being competitive" to the Browns should mean we can compete with the Steelers and Ravens AT WINNING, not losing like Cincy, Buffalo, etc. It also means, even if we have a 10 win season, but we are still 3rd in the division it has been an unacceptable season.
Oh and by the way, the whole "Mangenius" thing was born when Mangini turned a team around in O-N-E year.
I must be "different". As a Browns fan I want them to get to the playoffs in a year or two max. I want them to stay in the playoff's about 70-80% of the time from then on. I want them to be able to consistently beat the teams in their division. I want them to have a good mix of younger and older talent. I want them to have a front office that is second to none. I want them to have coaches that expect to win AND DO WIN with whatever talent they have....coaches that will figure out a way to win with the players they have, come those "short on talent years" or unexpected injuries. I want depth in all positions which requires good drafting and an understanding of player personnel GIVEN THE TALENT AND HEALTHY PLAYERS PRESENT THAT YEAR. I want some real stars, game changers on both sides of the ball. But most of all, I want fans that expect/demand greatness and aren't willing to wait for their 6 year old to graduate from college before the Browns have a once-a-decade playoff experience.
WINNING grows success, not getting a little better each year. Winning attitudes, work ethic and RESULTS maintain success. In the end, it has to be all about winning. Having "competitors" is great, but it only achieves the desired results if those "competitors" are also "winners". What if next year we get great talent and 4-5 key players get hurt. Then we are going to hear how Mangini shouldn't be held responsible and he should get another chance. Other coaches and players win with whoever they have BECAUSE THEY ARE WINNERS. Indy is a good example this year. Just look at how they dealt with their offensive injuries and losses. Their record has suffered but they are still in a tie for the top of their division.
Pittsburgh and Baltimore have twice the wins we do at this point in the season. "Being competitive" to the Browns should mean we can compete with the Steelers and Ravens AT WINNING, not losing like Cincy, Buffalo, etc. It also means, even if we have a 10 win season, but we are still 3rd in the division it has been an unacceptable season.
Oh and by the way, the whole "Mangenius" thing was born when Mangini turned a team around in O-N-E year.
i want. i want.
wow that's not too much to ask for.........how about world peace and 0% unemployment?
you're delusional.
how did those teams (that you mention, like indy...........oh btw way how are they doing right now with no running game and a ton of injuries............exactly) get to be the franchises they are today? let's see: an owner who listens to football people and will spend money, a gm that is very smart on the personnel end and a HC that gets a chance to implement his system. sounds like something we've got going on now right?
do they fire everybody because this didn't happen in two years, NO!!! how are you going to make all of these blockbuster trades when there is no one of value to trade?
oh and show me a tougher division in all of football? or a tougher schedule than what we've played? tick tock.........waiting.
how is there going to be cohesiveness with the offense or defense (within your system) just hire the most expensive and extravagant players and personnel and when it doesn't work out, shit can them. either you and wrrebel are still getting breast fed or you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and know nothing about the real world.
yeah i want a million dollars and bjs from meagan fox everyday....... sure it'd be real nice but Fing be realistic.
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in this business its measured in wins and losses.
You say we have a tougher team but we have looked pretty soft the last two weeks.
I think mangini supporters are more anal then me.
Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.
So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
I finally think our friend is backing off his contention Gruden could have made shinola out of shit this year. Yup, just let Jon the Genius loose, and we'd be right up there in offensive production with what we've got on the offensive side of the ball. Run the WCO without the horses to pull it off.
The Browns have played the toughest schedule in the NFL this year, and it's not even debatable. They've had all three quarterbacks hurt. They're playing with a joke (St Clair) at RT, the defensive captain has missed significant time. You could make a pretty good case Massaquoi would be the #3 wr on a bunch of teams, and a #2 on most. Mangini's not making excuses for playing the losing hand he's been dealt.
So let's look at the poster boy 2010 NFL turnarounds for a second, shall we? The Chiefs and Rams. Ahem, can we say shades of the 10-6 Anderception Browns? Relative powder-puff schedules. Lets start with the Lambs. They already had Laurinaitis & Jackson- should I mention their O-line has been intact the entire season? Let's see, lost to the only tough teams on their schedule- Saints & Falcons by an average of 17.5 points. (Apples to apples, the Browns lost to Atlanta by 10) AND THE FREAKING DETROIT LIONS BEAT THEM BY 38- GO LOOK IT UP. (Browns gotten blown out by 38 this year? Didn't think so.) Now on to the mighty Kitchen Chefs. They've beaten exactly one team with a winning record- that would be the Jaguars- at home. Needed a pick 6 to beat the Browns. Assuming they make the playoffs, the likely wild-cards- the Jets or Ravens will kill them.
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mikeyP72 said:
Larry, I'd agree with everything you said about strength of schedule and progress if we would have beat Cincy and Buffalo. The last two weeks have made looking at this season with optimism very ROUGH.I've always said when it comes to NFL football, "I'd rather be lucky than good." Lucky AND good can win you a Super Bowl. Unlucky and mediocre gets you 5-9 like the Browns.
Well, the Browns are still very much a team trying to make their way in the NFL wilderness. And not trying to have it both ways I think Buddy Ryan said, "ain't no Coastal Carolinas in the NFL."
Buffalo we got another "bad Jake", and that's certainly on Mangini.
Bengals? They were Division champs last year- and give 'em credit- they mightily exposed the Browns weaknesses- like zero pass rush from the front seven, weakness @ LB to fill gaps in the shaky D-line to stop Benson, and no viable wrs to take the pressure off of Hillis amounting to a sub par game by Peyton.
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mikeyP72 said:
Larry, I'd agree with everything you said about strength of schedule and progress if we would have beat Cincy and Buffalo. The last two weeks have made looking at this season with optimism very ROUGH.I've always said when it comes to NFL football, "I'd rather be lucky than good." Lucky AND good can win you a Super Bowl. Unlucky and mediocre gets you 5-9 like the Browns.
Well, the Browns are still very much a team trying to make their way in the NFL wilderness. And not trying to have it both ways I think Buddy Ryan said, "ain't no Coastal Carolinas in the NFL."
Buffalo we got another "bad Jake", and that's certainly on Mangini.
Bengals? They were Division champs last year- and give 'em credit- they mightily exposed the Browns weaknesses- like zero pass rush from the front seven, weakness @ LB to fill gaps in the shaky D-line to stop Benson, and no viable wrs to take the pressure off of Hillis amounting to a sub par game by Peyton.
I've always said when it comes to NFL football, "I'd rather be lucky than good." Lucky AND good can win you a Super Bowl. Unlucky and mediocre gets you 5-9 like the Browns.
Well, the Browns are still very much a team trying to make their way in the NFL wilderness. And not trying to have it both ways I think Buddy Ryan said, "ain't no Coastal Carolinas in the NFL."
Buffalo we got another "bad Jake", and that's certainly on Mangini.
Bengals? They were Division champs last year- and give 'em credit- they mightily exposed the Browns weaknesses- like zero pass rush from the front seven, weakness @ LB to fill gaps in the shaky D-line to stop Benson, and no viable wrs to take the pressure off of Hillis amounting to a sub par game by Peyton.
When you really take a hard look at how teams have had success against us since the second half of the Jets game it's been pretty simple: run right at us. The Jets murdered us on TOP in the second half. Jones-Drew rambled on us. Carolina had success running the football. Miami's stupid game plan called for more Henne and less WildDawg, but Ronnie Brown/Ricky Williams chewed up the yardage. Then the last two weeks happened as well.
That's not scheming, folks, when you get run over. That's my guys are better than your guys, you can't stop us. Ironically, it's how we were winning games last December. This year, with the loss of Yates, Pashos on offense and Robaire and Fujita on defense, it ain't happening up front.
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If Mangini wants to make a solid case for him to stay the Browns coach, then I would like for him to fire Daboll and hire a good OC. Otherwise, he simply should go.
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I think the window has closed on Mangini... but his only hope would be to sweep the Ravens and Steelers while playing great defense, then tell Holmgren he supports dumping Daboll and going WCO under Holmgren's supervision.
I don't see it happening. I think he's toast. I think McCoy has really sparked Holmgren and he doesn't trust Mangini to oversee his care and feeding. Wouldn't stun me at all if Holmgren took over HC duties as part of a planned transition to Gruden in 2012.
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I agree completely Shep. Foremost because Mangini is not Holmgren's guy and he is not Holmgren's type of Coach. Mangini is NOT offensive minded and Holmgren is. Holmgren is a super ego and NOW is the perfect time to move on and bring in HIS coach.
By the way in case the other 90% of football don't get it.................which they dont OFFENSE wins Championships
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
I love how people can change their minds about the direction this team is going in in a mere three weeks.
It really proves the people right who call Cleveland fans shortsighted and hostile.
I still wouldn't have it any other way.
Now we just have to pray the FO doesn't listen to us "genius" fans.
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I agree completely Shep. Foremost because Mangini is not Holmgren's guy and he is not Holmgren's type of Coach. Mangini is NOT offensive minded and Holmgren is. Holmgren is a super ego and NOW is the perfect time to move on and bring in HIS coach.
By the way in case the other 90% of football don't get it.................which they dont OFFENSE wins Championships
I agree completely Shep. Foremost because Mangini is not Holmgren's guy and he is not Holmgren's type of Coach. Mangini is NOT offensive minded and Holmgren is. Holmgren is a super ego and NOW is the perfect time to move on and bring in HIS coach.
By the way in case the other 90% of football don't get it.................which they dont OFFENSE wins Championships
You should be a head coach. Scratch that, GM.
No, better make it NFL Commish. You clearly know everything about everything and damn the rest of us to hell.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I would be the best GM ever.. in 2007 I would have drafted Brady Quinn instead of Joe Thomas.. How dumb would that have been?
the only worse gm than me would be issiah thomas!
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I agree with this article except for the part where Ryan says all the coaches should be kept. If Deboll stays I am going to be hella pissed.
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I agree with this article except for the part where Ryan says all the coaches should be kept. If Deboll stays I am going to be hella pissed.
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I agree completely Shep. Foremost because Mangini is not Holmgren's guy and he is not Holmgren's type of Coach. Mangini is NOT offensive minded and Holmgren is. Holmgren is a super ego and NOW is the perfect time to move on and bring in HIS coach.
By the way in case the other 90% of football don't get it.................which they dont OFFENSE wins Championships
You should be a head coach. Scratch that, GM.
No, better make it NFL Commish. You clearly know everything about everything and damn the rest of us to hell.
You should be a head coach. Scratch that, GM.
No, better make it NFL Commish. You clearly know everything about everything and damn the rest of us to hell.
Good assessment......thanks for the kudos......... keep listening and hopefully my knowledge will help you be a more astute and learned fan........and I don't know everything but way more than most. BTW, I didn't damn anyone just called it like it is......all you have to do is read the posts here and on most sports boards and it is evident........
Go Browns.......good times are coming
BTW, last Feb/March I said they should trade both Rogers and Cribbs as their value will dramatically decrease and soon and that they are expendable on a team that is at least one year away from competing. Further I stated strongly that we should draft McCoy and expressed my pleasure in getting him. Cogitate on That.........I really do not want to be the commish too boring of a job but a GM would be cool
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If any Mangini supporters going to the game on sunday could bring some signs to the game and let people know that some of us are behind the coach. Just a suggestion.
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If any Mangini supporters going to the game on sunday could bring some signs to the game and let people know that some of us are behind the coach. Just a suggestion.
If any Mangini supporters going to the game on sunday could bring some signs to the game and let people know that some of us are behind the coach. Just a suggestion.
I am, unfortunately my best friend is bringing a poster with a pic of Mangini that says "Got Mangina?"
my friend is not helping Mangini's cause lol
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If any Mangini supporters going to the game on sunday could bring some signs to the game and let people know that some of us are behind the coach. Just a suggestion.
I am, unfortunately my best friend is bringing a poster with a pic of Mangini that says "Got Mangina?"
my friend is not helping Mangini's cause lol
I am, unfortunately my best friend is bringing a poster with a pic of Mangini that says "Got Mangina?"
my friend is not helping Mangini's cause lol
Thats too funny. That made me laugh out loud for real!
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I am, unfortunately my best friend is bringing a poster with a pic of Mangini that says "Got Mangina?"
my friend is not helping Mangini's cause lol
Thats too funny. That made me laugh out loud for real!
Thats too funny. That made me laugh out loud for real!
yeah my buddy is an idiot. he thinks he will get on TV with that sign lol.. I told him he has no chance because they will not display profane signs on television.
he is in denial.
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Rogers I wouldn't disagree with that we should've traded but on a team void of playmakers espeically on offense, this teams needs Cribbs. He's a big part of the reason why the offense has struggled in the last few weeks. The defense has to account for him when he's on the field and it's hurt the offfense when he has been hurt.
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