Bye Bye Mangini
-
@junkyard-dawg said:
We're in the bottom of virtually every defensive stat category under his bend but don't break defenses. That isn't a good job and let's be honest here, Browns fans keep overrating the guy. His defenses have historically been middle of the road and destroyed in the run game. Maybe if he stopped worrying about landing a HC job and flapping his mouth off like he's Vince Lombardi his defenses would stop sucking? Maybe.Wannabe Rex will suck as a HC worse than he sucks as a DC, trust me on that one. Comparing him to Rivera is a joke, Riveras defenses have carried teams into the playoffs and a Superbowl, Ryans have done squat. That said how is Rivera soso with "his" offense? He is a defensive coordinator. As for his defenses in San Diego, they're a top 10 D right now. The problem ISN'T Ron Rivera. The problem is their consistently investing all their money into the least important side of the ball while ignoring the defense, letting it suffer with poor draft choices. He has little depth and mediocre players that are getting up in age. Even still he's producing a top 10 defense with trash.
Are you an only child? Brothers compete with each other. From childhood until death. The Harbaughs are no different. In fact they're VERY competitive with one another and there is little doubt in ANYONES mind who has followed
If Holmgren was really sold on McCoy and the WCO, would he have waited until Round 6 to draft him? This is hypothetical but my gut tells me McCoy would have been drafted by the Browns much earlier if Holmgren envisioned him as a strong NFL candidate to run the WCO in Cleveland - a place quite different than the moderate temperatures of SF.
Bottom line is I really don't know how strongly Holmgren is committed to either the WCO or Colt McCoy. Maybe he is and, just maybe, he isn't. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Browns draft a 'franchise' big and strong-armed QB in the first round.
Feedback requested. he would LOVE to beat on his brothers team. The Harbaugh boys would love nothing more than to compete for the division every year.
Besides that, there's you know, only 32 NFL teams and all. His dream is to what, again? Coach in the NFL! He'll be interested in whatever team comes calling. Including US if we make that call. ESPECIALLY us if his options are to work for a 29 year old owner who'll fire him after 1 full season for not winning the Superbowl(49ers) or come to Cleveland where he has: A top 3 GM, a President who happens to be one of the best ever at his job and a roster that's two offseasons away from being perennial playoff contenders. "Aw shucks Mike, i'd have to play my brother. I better take the 49ers job for a season or two and get fired instead" won't come out of his mouth.
We have a bad rush defense with a defense that only has two players that are remotely good against the run (Rubin and Roth) at the beginning of the season when we still had Fujita and Smith our rush defense was top 15 and that was still with only 4 decent players who could do something against the run, Rivera on the other hand DOES have the talent on his defense but he can't stop teams from outscoring the Chargers notably good offense and devastating passing attack. Let me paint a picture for you, the Charges score 25 points a game and are still losing the browns only score about 13-15 a game on average and are only losing games by 5ish points. Plus our defense is also in the top ten in red zone defense, turnovers, and POINTS ALOUD!!! Seriously, I'm not even saying that Ryan is the greatest D Coordinator in the country, might not even be top ten, but at Ryan's worst he is just as good as Rivera is and because of that there is zero reason to kick Ryan out to bring Rivera in.
On saying Rivera was an O Coordinator, that is a typo.
No I am also not an only child, I understand the idea of sibling rivalry well enough. This season we have seen the Ryan brothers face off and that was all fine and well, but no two groups are the same. But hell why are we even speculating about where Harbaugh will go when his older brother already pointed out to the media that IF his brother leaves Stanford, he will not be in the AFC North because the last thing they want is a freakin' media frenzy twice a year when they would play each other. But he you never know, the enticement of a good front office here at Cleveland could be too much for him to pass up and as I have said, he would make a damn fine head coach.
-
SAY HELLO TO YOURS NEXT HEAD COACH (I can't wait to say I told you so):
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5971586
BEREA, Ohio -- As the Cleveland Browns, his all-consuming pet rebuilding project, went through drills earlier this week, team president Mike Holmgren ventured onto the rock-hard practice field and called over kicker Phil Dawson for a chat.
With coach Eric Mangini standing only yards away, Holmgren, bundled in a heavy jacket to combat December's biting cold, talked to other players and then with Gil Haskell, his longtime friend and one of the trusted advisers he brought to Cleveland.
Last year, Holmgren traded his whistle for an executive's tie.
He might be about swap them again.
With the Browns perhaps on the verge of a coaching change, quarterback Seneca Wallace believes Holmgren is angling for a return to the sideline.
"I kind of do just because things probably haven't turned out the way he wanted on offense and being an offensive guy, I think he still has that itch to come back to coach," said Wallace, who played seven seasons for Holmgren in Seattle. "But at the end of the day, he's going to make the right decision for the rest of the team."
Yep, the Browns (5-10) could be getting a makeover. This one, though, might not be quite as extreme.
Mangini, given one reprieve by Holmgren last January, may not get a second as the Browns stagger to the finish of another disappointing season -- their ninth with double-digit losses in 12 years. Cleveland has gone just 2-5 since a midseason upset of New England, and unless the Browns can stun Pittsburgh on Sunday, Mangini will close his second year with a four-game losing streak.
That may be enough for Holmgren to make a coaching change, assuming he hasn't already made up his mind to replace Mangini, who will carry a 10-21 overall record -- 2-9 vs. the AFC North -- into Sunday's regular-season finale.
When Holmgren last met with reporters on Nov. 2, he said he would wait until after the season before making a decision on Mangini. He also left open the possibility of a return to coaching.
"I'd be less than honest if I didn't say I get fired up watching the games," he said. "I mean I [coached] for too long not to react sometimes the way I do, but I also recognize what I was hired to do and that's what I'm trying to do."
Browns owner Randy Lerner brought in Holmgren to fix his franchise, which has undergone nearly constant change in the past decade.
If Mangini gets fired, the 62-year-old Holmgren, who won a Super Bowl with Green Bay and an NFC championship with Seattle, will quickly jump to the top of a list of possible replacements. There could be several other big-name candidates available, including Jon Gruden, John Fox, Bill Cowher and others.
But Holmgren simply packing up his belongings and moving down the hall to a new office would cause the least uproar for organization craving calm. Unlike previous years, there doesn't seem to be nearly as much concern about the possibility -- and potential likelihood -- of change.
Maybe that's because Holmgren is overseeing it.
"He brings credibility to the whole organization," said Dawson, who has seen his share of turnover in 11-plus seasons with Cleveland. "I think if you ask anyone, they would say the same thing. Guys are confident that he knows what he wants to do, and we'll all have to wait and see what happens. But no one seems to be panicking or anything like that."
Many Browns fans can't bear the thought of another coaching change, but Wallace believes they should be comforted by Holmgren's presence.
"He's a person who is going to build a foundation," said Wallace, who started four games this season. "I don't think over the last couple of years there's been a foundation. There has been a lot of turnover. And I think once you build that foundation and that type of mentality, it's going to build for the future."
Has he seen any part of the foundation formed?
"I saw a couple of bricks slide in place," he said, "but there's still a lot of building that needs to be done."
Holmgren has spent the year evaluating Cleveland's roster, which has been upgraded by general manager Tom Heckert -- Holmgren's first hire. Holmgren knows what's needed and what's not, a fact that would make his potential takeover as coach that much more seamless.
Cornerback Sheldon Brown, acquired in an offseason trade with Philadelphia, has faith that the Browns' front office is getting things done.
"If they came back here and said, 'Sheldon, we need you to play safety, nickel, dime,' I believe that they know what they're doing to get us to where we need to go," he said. "I just believe in the plan."
When Holmgren accepted Lerner's offer to restore the Browns, he did so knowing it would be hard to shake the coaching bug. It's all the former high school history teacher has known since becoming an assistant at his alma mater in San Francisco 40 years ago.
Holmgren has enjoyed his executive role, immersing himself into the daily business of the Browns with the same verve as he did as a coach. But shaking hands with season-ticket holders and charming suite holders doesn't provide the same excitement as preparing a game plan to beat the Ravens.
He knew turning the Browns into consistent winners would take time, but patience has never been a strong suit.
"The problem is that I'm old, and the clock is ticking a little bit for me in this business," Holmgren joked during an interview with The Associated Press in October.
He misses the game.
It might be time to get back in it.
-
Does Eric Mangini Deserve a Third Season With The Cleveland Browns?
By Marc Sessler (Member) on January 2, 2011
In a season where four NFL head coaches have been fired heading into Week 17, it doesn't look good for Cleveland Browns coach Eric Mangini.
There was a sense midseason that the tenuous connection between president Mike Holmgren and Mangini could work -- and should be forced to work -- after the Browns consecutively dismantled the New Orleans Saints and New England Patriots, only to lose to the hyped-up New York Jets by a hair.
All the talk about Holmgren's coaching roots not jiving with the Belichick/Parcells tree seemed half-baked, as the team was suddenly worth three hours of your Sunday. For a shimmering moment, the Browns were the team nobody wanted to face.
Problem is, down the stretch, the same Browns team that had played far beyond expectation during a brutal stretch in the schedule -- led by galvanizing rookie quarterback Colt McCoy -- dissembled against soft opponents when McCoy became the third starting passer this season to suffer a high ankle sprain. Jake Delhomme took over, the offensive line took some hits, and the attack never recovered.
Had the Browns stayed relatively healthy after the Patriots win, and polished off the few teams they were favored against, Holmgren would have nothing to point to in firing Mangini. This is a coaching staff that's enthused large segments of the Browns' faithful -- downtrodden fans who've watched this team closely since its return in 1999, and finally see signs of progress.
Some feel that losses to Buffalo and Cincinnati rightfully marked the end of Mangini by giving Holmgren something to hang his hat on in making a change.
If Holmgren is truly committed to playing the role of president and not, at some stage, coach of the Browns, it's hard to imagine that those losses, taken in context, mean much of anything.
Holmgren sees that Mangini and defensive coordinator Rob Ryan have gotten this Browns team to fight to the end in nearly every game this season. Cleveland's garnered -- for the first time since Reagan was in office -- respect around the league with its gritty style of play, despite a poor talent base.
When McCoy plays the Steelers for the second time this season, it will mark the first time under Mangini that the same quarterback has faced a division opponent more than once.
Bottom line: Mangini, perhaps to his discredit, has been saddled with some of the worst NFL quarterbacks around (read: Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, Delhomme), and still managed to keep games close. In McCoy, the Browns feel they have something special.
But it's McCoy's emergence that might work against Mangini. Holmgren lives to develop quarterbacks. His (to be fair, distant) reputation for doing so does not come without its fair share of ego and need for control.
Holmgren has shown poise and grace as president of the Browns, and he has done a tremendous job in adding value to a previously floating franchise, but not unlike that ever-drunk friend you have -- who, despite promises of sobriety, is guaranteed to show up hammered and surly to your wedding, despite his intentions -- Holmgren is fighting, utterly struggling, against the urge to dispatch the entire coaching staff and take over. Screw this president thing -- GET ME THE HEADSET.
I wonder what was floating through Holmgren's mind watching McCoy out-chess-match Tom Brady on the field, only to trot off to visit with -- Brian Daboll.
These days, Holmgren spends portions of his week deciding what concessions will be sold at the stadium -- while the coaching staff down the hall holds the fate of his team in their hands.
Had McCoy not hit the scene with such verve -- and had the season plodded along with the excruciating Delhomme under center -- Mangini would likely be swept out of town with full support from the fanbase.
Now, with the quarterback piece perhaps in place, Holmgren's left questioning: do I trust anybody but myself with this kid?
None of this bodes well:
"One of my greatest challenges is I’m up there, and ... I try not to get too boisterous up there," Holmgren told reporters in November. "You’ll see things and you’ll go, ‘Aw, gee.' That’s the coach in me talking and I apologize for that right now. Whether it’s Rob Ryan, who’s a wonderful coach, they’re fine coaches, but when we start moving around on defense and do all of those things, it drives me crazy, but it works. I’m not used to that. This first year in many ways, I’m getting used to a certain style, if you will. I do not question their work ethic and how hard they’re trying to get this done. They are working very hard at this."
"I’m doing okay. Does it sound like I want to coach? No, I’m doing okay," Holmgren said. "The challenge of this is really something for me and I’m enjoying the challenge. I’d be less than honest if I didn’t say I get fired up watching the games, I mean I did that for too long not to react sometimes the way I do, but I also recognize what I was hired to do and that’s what I’m trying to do."
Followed by this enigmatic gem:
"I made a promise and I’m going to stick with it. Now, if I keep wearing a suit or not, we’ll see," he said, adding: "You are catching me at a weak moment. I just came off vacation (joking). I love coaching. I am doing what I am doing now and that’s what I plan to be doing. My commitment is to get the Browns going in the right direction and having people feel good about their football team in my role as the president. When I talk to Randy (Lerner) honestly about those things, I am being honest about it. Right now, that’s what I am going to do."
Right now.
There has been hideous discussion about Holmgren firing young Eric Mangini for the likes of John Fox, whose contract will not be renewed by the 2-13 Carolina Panthers. That should galvanize the fanbase.
Oh, and then there's word that Holmgren is hot on his boy Marty Mornhinweg. I'm not going to waste another sentence on that.
Of course, you get the Jon Gruden talk -- another Holmgren guy.
None of it feels right. Mangini, despised last season, and unfairly portrayed in the media, has been a gentleman. This is someone who seems to genuinely care about his players, his coaches, his organization -- and even the media covering him, who have slowly come to see that there may be more to this coach than last season's rough start.
Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last.
There is an AP story out today about Belichick's work in New England this season, perhaps his finest as a coach. Impossible to name another mid-season, shifting-gears rebuilding job that resulted in 13 wins. The article talks about the "Patriot Way," really just another phrase for the "Belichick Way."
Belichick, who 20 seasons ago today was guiding the New York Giants defense to a Super Bowl win over the Buffalo Bills -- days before becoming the Browns head coach, where he worked alongside Ozzie Newsome, the rising personnel man -- on a team that was moved to Baltimore.
Had Art Modell not sold his soul, and endured less riches to keep the Browns in C-Town, I would not be writing this column tonight.
Still, all of this is yesterday. The franchise has a chance this week to exhibit patience and allow a young coach to develop -- this time with the Browns.
Dumping Eric Mangini -- especially to address a personal need to return to the sideline -- will be Mike Holmgren's greatest mistake.
Win or lose against Pittsburgh on Sunday, it time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again.
It is my hope that Mangini will be afforded something Holmgren was given in his time with both the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks -- a third season.
-
"Missed it by -that- much."
Yep, forgot about this but a deal is a deal and I am a man of my word, no more posts. I do wish well to all of you on this board and to your families in the new year, and still predict that if intelligent personnel decisions continue to be made the Browns could have a wild card playoff spot in as little as two years. And imho the first intelligent personnel decision would be to allow Mangini to finish what he has begun, rather than continue with the revolving door of coaches.
Once again, good luck and farewell.
Buck
Yep, forgot about this but a deal is a deal and I am a man of my word, no more posts. I do wish well to all of you on this board and to your families in the new year, and still predict that if intelligent personnel decisions continue to be made the Browns could have a wild card playoff spot in as little as two years. And imho the first intelligent personnel decision would be to allow Mangini to finish what he has begun, rather than continue with the revolving door of coaches.
Once again, good luck and farewell.
Buck
wow, i know the policy is no dealing with terrorists, but can't we swap you for a wrrebel, a shep, a gips and a longhorn?
i've mentioned this before but WHEN YOUR ENEMY STARTS GIVING YOU TIPS ON HOW NOT TO LOSE THE WAR OUT OF SYMPATHY then you know shit is in disarray. got fans from lots of teams telling me the same thing. doesn't it take more than two years to get a system in place and work?
i love all the factual "i heard it from here" or "this is what's gonna happen because i want it to" or "i have a feeling".......yeah i got one too, it's let's go to the bronx and piss in jeter's face. it'd be great but it ain't gonna happen.
and for the other nimrods: do we really want to be the team with a big, fat, red-faced blow-hard holmgren doing a brett favre? hopefully he's got more sense than most of you and remain OFF the freakin sidelines. if he was here in ny, the post would have already put him on the back page with a photoshopped pic of him with a big oily stinkin fish in his mouth. hey mike put the FXXkin DONUTS DOWN. fat fxxk.
now go get us some players, douche!!
-
Since the front office will stay intact regardless its not like we will have to tear down again but rather build on the existing build which is what needs to be done rather mangini is coach or not..
As far as mangini getting a 3rd chance i do not believe he has earned it from multiple stand points and while i agree the vicious cycle must end it needs to end after mangini is replaced by a competent coach..
As far as Marty Mornhinweg, jon gruden even john fox goes, any of them would be a major upgrade over mangini and even jim harbaugh would be a safer bet to bring success and an acceptable approach to the game...
-
Since the front office will stay intact regardless its not like we will have to tear down again but rather build on the existing build which is what needs to be done rather mangini is coach or not..
As far as mangini getting a 3rd chance i do not believe he has earned it from multiple stand points and while i agree the vicious cycle must end it needs to end after mangini is replaced by a competent coach..
As far as Marty Mornhinweg, jon gruden even john fox goes, any of them would be a major upgrade over mangini and even jim harbaugh would be a safer bet to bring success and an acceptable approach to the game...
-
<<<< Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last. >>>>
I agree, "it's time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again" and getting rid of Mangini would be the wrong move.
-
No doubt. At some point we have to develop some continuity. I hope that time is now....though i wouldn't be adverse to a change at the coordinator slot.
Maybe time to just insert Haskell??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
from Mary Kay re: Holmgren
The Big Show: Will Holmgren descend from his ivory tower for one last coaching hurrah? A case can be made that of all the available candidates, he has the strongest credentials.
He boasts a 161-111 record in 17 seasons as head coach in Green Bay and Seattle, and a 13-11 mark in postseason. He's taken his teams to three Super Bowls and won one, with the Packers in 1996. He also has eight division titles and 12 playoff berths.
On Nov. 2, Holmgren admitted he's considered coaching the Browns when asked if he'll honor his commitment here. "I made a promise and I'm going to stick with it," he said. "Now if I keep wearing a suit or not? We'll see." A day later, on Dan Patrick's radio show, Holmgren re-iterated, "I don't know if [coaching] ever leaves you. [During games] I'm ranting and raving and jumping around and it's a challenge for me."
At 62, it's probably now or never for Holmgren, who's still referred to as "coach." Known for developing Hall of Fame quarterbacks Steve Young and Joe Montana, and future Hall of Famer Brett Favre, he's excited about Colt McCoy.
In addition to the opportunity here, he might get calls from the Cowboys and 49ers.
What's this about the Cowboys and Niners comin' calling???????? Can anyone here imagine Holmgren LEAVING... Talk about LeBron II.....
-
No doubt. At some point we have to develop some continuity. I hope that time is now....though i wouldn't be adverse to a change at the coordinator slot.
Maybe time to just insert Haskell??
No doubt. At some point we have to develop some continuity. I hope that time is now....though i wouldn't be adverse to a change at the coordinator slot.
Maybe time to just insert Haskell??
When Haskell was first brought here, I thought there was an ulterior motive & still do. I'll be surprised if he's not part of future change(s).
We'll see..........
Mike
-
<<<< Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last. >>>>
I agree, "it's time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again" and getting rid of Mangini would be the wrong move.
<<<< Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last. >>>>
I agree, "it's time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again" and getting rid of Mangini would be the wrong move.
Second that, we should keep Mangini as stated above with or without a new offensive coordinator.
-
Formerly Stone said:
This is the most likely of all scenarios for a number of reasons.1. Holmgren has said he would not rule out coaching again.
2. It fits Lerner's financial commitment as opposed to hiring....and paying.....a head coach.
3. It fit's for now because a big name coach wouldn't come to Cleveland until the Browns demonstrate that they can turn the organization around. If Holmgren can turn it around this sets the stage for a big name coach to come in after 4-5 years of steady improvement.
It all makes too much sense!
It makes all to much sense to pay 3 head coaches next year? I think that is one of the reasons why we keep Mangini.
-
Formerly Stone said:
Look at it from a business stand point. They have to pay Mangini regardless......but!........if they don't believe that Mangini is the coach of the future they have to get rid of him and start the rebuilding process with the pieces of the puzzle they believe to be the future.I see your point, but think that we would still be jumping the gun with this decision. I think that Holmgren realizes that he could have done any better with this group of players.
-
If Holmgren coaches anywhere, it will be here, and there is a very small chance that will happen. I would make sense for him to do so from money stand point because if we fire Mangini then we still have to pay him next year along with whatever coach we hire, but if Holmgren takes over as coach he is already getting paid so we will only be paying what we are paying this year.
Other than that I look for Holmgren to do one of two things.
1: He talks to Mangini and says that they are going to retain him for one more season, but that the team will be running a WCO. Over the course of the offseason Holmgren will talk to Mangini and coach him in the area of WCO to get him more used to it and the WCO Coordinator that is brought in will have all control of the offensive plays. (I believe that this works out because Mangini really doesn't know shit about offense anyway, but does good with defense and as being an actual head coach which involves motivation, inspiration, ect)
2: Mangini gets fired and we see a WCO head coach come in.
-
<<<< Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last. >>>>
I agree, "it's time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again" and getting rid of Mangini would be the wrong move.
<<<< Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last. >>>>
I agree, "it's time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again" and getting rid of Mangini would be the wrong move.
I agree.
-
One never knows how a contract is worded, but I would be shocked if Holmgren has a out clause to go coach another team.
-
-
That will make him 10-10 since going 1-11 during last season. Sorry, thats improvement. Just a thought.
Oh, and I like the people complaining about how he spoke to about his kid in an interview. Saying he is rich, "im sure he can take his xbox and 60" TV with him wherever they go.....NONE of those saying that would know how to explain to your family and children how idiotic and hateful some Cleveland fans are. 6 year old kid has friends, there is family in Cleveland, the wife probably has a life already started (2 freakin years already and a woman doesnt have friends yet?) Family stability is part of living a good life too, hell, families have been split for much less. The dude is possibly (probably) looking at another move. "BUT HE IS RICH" SO WHAT? MONEY DOESNT BUY HAPPINESS, FAMILY AND FRIENDS DO! I dont care how much any of you make, you are facing a pink slip and a probable move in order to continue to support your family and future, ALL of you would be flippin stressed and pissed off!
The dude improved this team and had it going in the right direction, but because he was black listed from day one, NONE of you have been fair to this guy, he was marked as a failure from day one and had NO CHANCE in that city.
-
Go Browns!!
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login