Phil Savage fired
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I really hope randy does this whole off season right we are patient and can wait for the browns to emerge as winners as long as there is a structure developed and a successful system installed,developed and the coordinators mentored so it can be passed down to the younger fiery coaches of the future its all part of having a successful system and the browns have lacked a solid management structure from the very top and have lacked a successful football program/system from mid level down for way to long..
It all starts by getting the right people to rebuild the organizations structure soo...
Randy needs to open his wallet wide and say ahhhhh...
Like the one Buzzard said to the other Buzzard- "patience my ass, I'm gonna kill something." I've been patient since 1964- enough is enough. I've seen incompetent franchises (Bengals) make it to the Super Bowl, and expansion franchises (Buccaneers) win one.
FWIW, Randy already opened his wallet big time- he just ate about $20 million of contracts to clean house.
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Offseason.... the most exciting event in a browns fans season. yeeesh.
I don't have enough time to watch a ton of games so I'll be the first to say I have no clue who we should hire for either position but I'm not sold on Cowher or Marty.
I liked Marty when he was here, for the most part. Looking at his track record he has always found a way to put a competitive team on the field. However, he hasn't reached the promised land. And while we'll settle for anything better than 4-12 right now, it won't be long before we're griping about Mary's prevent d or something else if the best we do in 4 years is 10-6 and a first round loss.
Bill..... the man won a ring and said, "Look, I'm content with that. Let me watch my kids grow up." I say let him. I don't want a guy we "talk in to" coaching with a fat salary.
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Obviously, I'd love to see you keep a loser like Crennel as head coach around forever. ( 0-8 vs. the Steelers in his short tenure as Browns HC)
But I'm not disputing firing him.
I think it was a stupid move to fire the one guy that showed you any positive change - Phil Savage.
All that talk from Randy Lerner last year about one of the Browns biggest weaknesses being lack of continuity from one regime to the next.
End of 2008, and Savage is out the door. And you've got to start totally fresh again. Just like 1999. Just like 2001. Just like 2005.
Don't you guys ever get sick of that?
I'm guessing its because you're going to make a move for Cowher. Talk here in Pittsburgh is that it might start as soon as tomorrow. But I doubt he ends up coaching next year, and I doubt even more he goes to Cleveland.
Then what?
Unlike some of my brethren, I have mixed emotions about firing Savage. And like I said before, he might have been asked to step down as GM to be director of Player Personnel, and refused. We don't know everything that went on behind closed doors. I'm getting the feeling him and Lerner weren't on the same page.
Even then as a talent evaluator, how many of the Browns could start for the Steelers? 3? 4? 6-7 tops. Phil's had 4 years.
Yeah-we're really sick of losing. Totally fed up. Even us lifelong hardcores are about ready to throw in the towel if this doesn't start changing, and soon. We've tried the hot college coach, and the hot defensive coordinator- got any other ideas? Proven winner in Cowher? I agree- a longshot at best. Marty's a more likely suspect, but he has no front office experience.
Even then as a talent evaluator, how many of the Browns could start for the Steelers? 3? 4? 6-7 tops. Phil's had 4 years.
Has anyone thought about this from the other side: how many of the guys the Steelers have drafted in the past few years could start for the Browns?
I looked at their '05-'07 drafts, and I came up with 3 definite starters: LaMarr Woodley, Santonio Holmes, and Lawrence Timmons (at ROLB). A case could be made that an additional 3 guys would start: Heath Miller, Willie Colon, and Bryant McFadden.
So somewhere between 3-6 young Steelers could start for the Browns: 1-2 starters per draft class.
Not exactly sure what that means...but it doesn't make me think that Savage's scouting skills were terrible.
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I'll go on record saying I'm disappointed. I feel that Savage did a great job bringing in players and managing the cap. I really like the guy. I admit he had a few slip-ups, but I didn't want to see him gone. I could see a reduced roll, but not completely gone. Partially because with both he and Crennel going, it's now a complete re-build. I felt Savage needed a chance to prove his talent evaluation under a new coaching regime. We'll see Savage get a new job somewhere else, and we'll see him bring talent into that organization as well. I truly believe that.
Great post. I share a lot of your feelings about this.
People should realize that this move wasn't about Savage's ability to scout & bring in talent. As Tony Grossi reported, it was more about Savage's communication skills and leadership abilities (or lack thereof).
I don't expect our drafts to get much better now that we've switched GM's. The people who've been complaining about Savage drafting Wimbley, D'Qwell, and Travis Wilson in 2006 should realize (as Tupa once pointed out) that Pioli drafted Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and David Thomas that same year. Chad Jackson's been cut, Maroney's rumored to be on the chopping block, and Thomas has 21 career catches. Is that a better draft than Savage's?
A major reason for the Pats' recent success has been a series of brilliant trades. They got Wes Welker for a 2nd and 7th, and traded a late Round 1 pick in '07 for what turned out to be Randy Moss & Jerod Mayo. Though I didn't like the Corey Williams trade, the Shaun Rogers deal definitely qualifies for the same level of brilliance as Pioli's moves (at least the Welker deal).
The one way in which our drafts may end up being better is that we'll have closer coordination between the coach & GM on what kinds of players to bring in. Reports surfaced recently that Crennel didn't want Beau Bell; we had reports in camp that the coaching staff thought Corey Williams was a bust in their system; we drafted two late-round DE's in '07 that weren't at all fits for Romeo's fat guy 3-4 scheme.
If Lerner thought any deeper than "Savage is a jerk and doesn't manage well; I have to fire him," I suspect he came to the conclusion that demoting him would only perpetuate this disconnect between the players we draft & the scheme the new GM & coach plan to employ.
That may be why he's looking for a more integrated approach this time around: either Cowher in control of everything or Pioli running the show.
Ultimately, I think that's the smart thing to do, but I am a little disappointed that Savage didn't end up a success here. His '07 draft class converged on excellence - getting a franchise LT, QB, and two starting corners in the same draft is amazing. And had he gotten Desmond Bishop in Round 6, I suspect we wouldn't be talking about drafting Aaron Curry right now.
He displayed some serious PR & maturity issues, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him re-emerge a la Belichick as a great GM some day. He's only 43 years old, so he can bide his time as a scouting director for a couple years & end up landing a good job elsewhere.
I sincerely hope that happens...as long as he does it outside our division.
Aloysius said:
Great post. I share a lot of your feelings about this.People should realize that this move wasn't about Savage's ability to scout & bring in talent. As Tony Grossi reported, it was more about Savage's communication skills and leadership abilities (or lack thereof).
I don't expect our drafts to get much better now that we've switched GM's. The people who've been complaining about Savage drafting Wimbley, D'Qwell, and Travis Wilson in 2006 should realize (as Tupa once pointed out) that Pioli drafted Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and David Thomas that same year. Chad Jackson's been cut, Maroney's rumored to be on the chopping block, and Thomas has 21 career catches. Is that a better draft than Savage's?
A major reason for the Pats' recent success has been a series of brilliant trades. They got Wes Welker for a 2nd and 7th, and traded a late Round 1 pick in '07 for what turned out to be Randy Moss & Jerod Mayo. Though I didn't like the Corey Williams trade, the Shaun Rogers deal definitely qualifies for the same level of brilliance as Pioli's moves (at least the Welker deal).
The one way in which our drafts may end up being better is that we'll have closer coordination between the coach & GM on what kinds of players to bring in. Reports surfaced recently that Crennel didn't want Beau Bell; we had reports in camp that the coaching staff thought Corey Williams was a bust in their system; we drafted two late-round DE's in '07 that weren't at all fits for Romeo's fat guy 3-4 scheme.
If Lerner thought any deeper than "Savage is a jerk and doesn't manage well; I have to fire him," I suspect he came to the conclusion that demoting him would only perpetuate this disconnect between the players we draft & the scheme the new GM & coach plan to employ.
That may be why he's looking for a more integrated approach this time around: either Cowher in control of everything or Pioli running the show.
Ultimately, I think that's the smart thing to do, but I am a little disappointed that Savage didn't end up a success here. His '07 draft class converged on excellence - getting a franchise LT, QB, and two starting corners in the same draft is amazing. And had he gotten Desmond Bishop in Round 6, I suspect we wouldn't be talking about drafting Aaron Curry right now.
He displayed some serious PR & maturity issues, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him re-emerge a la Belichick as a great GM some day. He's only 43 years old, so he can bide his time as a scouting director for a couple years & end up landing a good job elsewhere.
I sincerely hope that happens...as long as he does it outside our division.
Agreed. Yes, Savage made mistakes, most glaring of which was resigning DA when we were postured to obtain significant talent for a vastly over-rated QB.
Now we need to hire a competent GM, let him hire his coaching choice, & trust that coach to put together a solid staff. I also agree with many that with proper coaching & leadership, we have a talent base that could quickly develop into a consistent winner.
Mike
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Terrible move. There is boatloads of talent on this roster and it's all because of Phil Savage. Romeo xxxxed Phil's career.
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Rich, As the most out-spoken on the subject to fire these two, who do you want us to replace Crennel & Savage with?
I'll chime in- Pioli. Does Marty know how to scout? I haven't forgotten Mike Junkin.
If Cowher won't take the job (I predict he won't) Kirk Ferentz or Urban Meyer, or how about Bob Stoops (he's a Buckeye) out of the college ranks? I've seen enough of Tressell that I doubt he'd be successful as a pro coach, and he'd never leave OSU anyway- he's got tenure there for life.
I flat out humbly profess my ignorance to not even dare suggest how any assistant NFL coaches might turn out, and other than Marty or Cowher, no HC retreads please- they rarely work- Coughlin being the glaring exception to the rule.
I'll chime in- Pioli. Does Marty know how to scout? I haven't forgotten Mike Junkin.
If Cowher won't take the job (I predict he won't) Kirk Ferentz or Urban Meyer, or how about Bob Stoops (he's a Buckeye) out of the college ranks? I've seen enough of Tressell that I doubt he'd be successful as a pro coach, and he'd never leave OSU anyway- he's got tenure there for life.
I flat out humbly profess my ignorance to not even dare suggest how any assistant NFL coaches might turn out, and other than Marty or Cowher, no HC retreads please- they rarely work- Coughlin being the glaring exception to the rule.
Ummm.. the majority of SB winning coaches in recent NFL history have been retreads.
Belichick.
Dungy
Gruden
Shula
Shanahan
Vermeil
Coughlin
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Savage was probably asked to take a demotion, and refused.
As a Steeler fan, you'd probably have loved us to keep Crennell around forever- sort of like us Buckeye fans never wanted to see Lloyd Carr get the boot at at Michigan.
Obviously, I'd love to see you keep a loser like Crennel as head coach around forever. ( 0-8 vs. the Steelers in his short tenure as Browns HC)
But I'm not disputing firing him.
I think it was a stupid move to fire the one guy that showed you any positive change - Phil Savage.
All that talk from Randy Lerner last year about one of the Browns biggest weaknesses being lack of continuity from one regime to the next.
End of 2008, and Savage is out the door. And you've got to start totally fresh again. Just like 1999. Just like 2001. Just like 2005.
Don't you guys ever get sick of that?
I'm guessing its because you're going to make a move for Cowher. Talk here in Pittsburgh is that it might start as soon as tomorrow. But I doubt he ends up coaching next year, and I doubt even more he goes to Cleveland.
Then what?
Obviously, I'd love to see you keep a loser like Crennel as head coach around forever. ( 0-8 vs. the Steelers in his short tenure as Browns HC)
But I'm not disputing firing him.
I think it was a stupid move to fire the one guy that showed you any positive change - Phil Savage.
All that talk from Randy Lerner last year about one of the Browns biggest weaknesses being lack of continuity from one regime to the next.
End of 2008, and Savage is out the door. And you've got to start totally fresh again. Just like 1999. Just like 2001. Just like 2005.
Don't you guys ever get sick of that?
Is it bad when I agree the most with a Steelers fan on here? I'm unhappy about rebuilding again. But here we are. I'm just hoping whoever comes in doesn't clean house. I like a lot of the players that Savage brought in, and I think the right coach can make some great improvements to this team with some tough-love, discipline, and fundamentals.
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Obviously, I'd love to see you keep a loser like Crennel as head coach around forever. ( 0-8 vs. the Steelers in his short tenure as Browns HC)
But I'm not disputing firing him.
I think it was a stupid move to fire the one guy that showed you any positive change - Phil Savage.
All that talk from Randy Lerner last year about one of the Browns biggest weaknesses being lack of continuity from one regime to the next.
End of 2008, and Savage is out the door. And you've got to start totally fresh again. Just like 1999. Just like 2001. Just like 2005.
Don't you guys ever get sick of that?
Is it bad when I agree the most with a Steelers fan on here? I'm unhappy about rebuilding again. But here we are. I'm just hoping whoever comes in doesn't clean house. I like a lot of the players that Savage brought in, and I think the right coach can make some great improvements to this team with some tough-love, discipline, and fundamentals.
Is it bad when I agree the most with a Steelers fan on here? I'm unhappy about rebuilding again. But here we are. I'm just hoping whoever comes in doesn't clean house. I like a lot of the players that Savage brought in, and I think the right coach can make some great improvements to this team with some tough-love, discipline, and fundamentals.
The one thing Crennel brought here was a steady hand without the knee jerk reactions. It's unfortunate that both Savage & Lerner do not. The fans definately have Lerners ear, and that is not a good thing.
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Is it bad when I agree the most with a Steelers fan on here? I'm unhappy about rebuilding again. But here we are. I'm just hoping whoever comes in doesn't clean house. I like a lot of the players that Savage brought in, and I think the right coach can make some great improvements to this team with some tough-love, discipline, and fundamentals.
The one thing Crennel brought here was a steady hand without the knee jerk reactions. It's unfortunate that both Savage & Lerner do not. The fans definately have Lerners ear, and that is not a good thing.
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every superbowl winning coach in history was in the playoffs by their 4th season. Enough said.
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