What players do you rate in each category?
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This year Joe Thomas was good..not great or elite..sorry its true..the dirty little secret in the room
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i rate players the same way i rate all men. how hot their wive's are. for that reason, tom brady is the greatest human being to ever live. colt mccoy is up there too.
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Ah, now your job peen is to place all the NFL free agents into one of your categories and then figure out how the Browns can get a hold of as many of the Elite and Excellent players as they can!
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Ah, now your job peen is to place all the NFL free agents into one of your categories and then figure out how the Browns can get a hold of as many of the Elite and Excellent players as they can!
Ah, now your job peen is to place all the NFL free agents into one of your categories and then figure out how the Browns can get a hold of as many of the Elite and Excellent players as they can!
I can rate them easy enough. Figuring out how we get the good ones is another story.
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Formerly Sane said:
Unfortunately, for Browns fans, the rating is done by who they play for
Not sure I understand your comment? Are you trying to make a point?
Like I said, i am not going to talk smack with you. Talk football or go pollute some other thread.
Talk about your team. How many Steelers fall in to the elite area....the excellent area.
I'll talk with you if you try to get serious.
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Good stuff Peens, I think the key is how many of a certain ranking of players a team has and the effect that ranking overall has on their success. For example, how many elite players does it take to make up for having less excellent or good players another team may have? Take Pitt for example, they struggle big time without Polly himself, let alone taking Roid Monk out of the equation or or even Woodley, Hampton or Simmons. Last year, they were hit big time just by losing Aaron Smith and at times, Polly.
To make it short, I think you have to have 3 to 5 elite players to be a really good team, they make up for the gray areas between all the other groupings. However, a guy like St. Clair is an example of injuries hitting the wrong areas and creating a huge weakness on a team. The Browns losing Fujita this year (who BTW is a ton better than Jackson ever thought of being) caused Bowens to move outside where he is way less effective because of lack of speed, and at the same time moved Barton into the starting lineup inside. Huge voids caused by one major injury to a big time free agent who was playing at a Pro Bowl level. Keep in mind, DQJ was lost before the season even started. To put that in perspective, take Timmons out of Pitt's lineup before camp even starts, then have them losing Farrior midseason ala Fuje.
Besides the QB carousel, the other big issue that killed the team was the right side of the oline. If St. Clair starts, you're in trouble. Lauvao was playing well in camp and looked like a great pick that could take over RG. Then, he missed a week for unknown reasons. My guess is he lost a parent, but either way it really set him back. When he did get back, he got the dreaded high ankle and was never right the rest of the year.
We survived this quite well because we signed Pashos, who is an above average player when healthy at RT, and had Poke Chop at RG. Pashos went down for the year and in stepped Yates at RG with PC going to RT. This combo played great also, then Yates went down for the year. This moved PC to RG and St. Clair to RT, our death knell. PC also was hurt most of the year but played. In essence, the three best guys on the right side went down for the year by game 9, and Lauvao and Pashos in essence missed the entire season.
Basically, those two spots on the roster killed the team because we had below average guys playing at key positions after having good guys there. It's almost the same principle but opposite of having elite players.
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Formerly Sane said:
Unfortunately, for Browns fans, the rating is done by who they play forI think what you are saying is that the Browns have done poorly in their drafts, and that whomever has been picking for the Browns has done a fairly poor job. Perhaps.
But that is NOT what ballpeen is talking about here. He is talking about rating players on their actual performance, not on the projected performances of a draft pick.
His proposal is sort of a fantasy draft proposal....who would you take on your team (fantasy? or real life) based on what they have accomplished as an NFL player.
He is saying, e.g. that Joe Thomas is an elite player. A young, outstanding veteran that any NFL team would want. Apparently there is not much disagreement about that.
I am saying: how can we add a bunch more Joe Thomas quality players?
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Formerly Sane said:
Outstanding! My point was pretty clear and is self evident except to those won't see it.Browns fans, all too often, make their decisions about a players greatness, or lack thereof, based soley on who that player plays for. In other words, unable to see beyond the Cleveland Browns fans hatred of the rest of the football world, particularly the great teams of today,s era of football, to make sound decisions.
Browns fans, all too often, refuse to pay attention to what the rest of the football world sees because it often sheds a negative light on the Cleveland Browns. Every announcer, or sports show host, who has ever uttered a negative comment about Cleveland or the Browns is automatically an idiot.....despite the level of truth in the comment!
When the rest of the football world talks about the greatness of former and current Steeler players, Browns fans call them names and and say they are biased, there is some big ugly consiracy. When the rest of the football world fails to talks about the former and current Browns players, Browns fans say the football world is against them.
When the rest of the football world talks about the greatness of former and current players of any successful team, Browns fans can't see it because, all too many, Browns fans have spent their entire life in a Browns vacuum. Hating everyone who has anything negative to say about Cleveland or the Browns (despite the reality that is plain to see)....hating every other team who is successful because the Browns aren't.......hating, with a passion, anything about Pittsburgh or the Steelers because Pittsburgh and the Steelers picked themselves up by the bootstraps and took themselves from the gutter to greatness and remain there! The Browns went from greatness to the gutter, and remain there, and, all too many, Browns fans simply can't accept this.
So........................."Unfortunately, for Browns fans, the rating is done by who they play for"
It's like having a discussion about the beauty of the mountains with a group of people who have never seen the mountains.
you still haven't answered his question and therefore have added nothing to this thread. Your argument is not relevant to this thread, seeing as though the steelers weren't even mentioned until you jumped in...
I agree with Hillis being NFL good. I also think Fujita is NFL good if not excellent but unfortunately we didn't get to see him play for 16 games. And don't forget about Vickers. He is clearly one of the best FB in the league. As for Ward and Haden, they have shown a ton a potential, but let's see if they can be even better next year before we give them too high a rating (assuming there is football next year).
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Formerly Sane said:
No offense, but you too are missing the original question. The question was "how do you rate players" not "who do you rate in what category".My reason for not jumping in on the discussions about individual players is because it involves Browns players (as it should on a Browns board) but there is no way to have a logical discussion about those players here for the reasons I mentioned.
As far as "how to rate players" Riffer X provided the only real answer to the original question......which in, and of itself, makes the world square, flat, non-existent
Since you're determined to pick nits and be childishly concrete in your interpretation of the topic, I changed the name to reflect the spirit of the discussion. Now if you'd care to join in the assessment of players according to the rankings offered at the start of the thread, feel free to join in. If you'd like to offer your own rubric for evaluating talent, we'll gladly take a look. Ballpeen was gracious and inclusive and your response was inappropriately provocative. Buy yourself some manners and join the conversation.
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Formerly Sane said:
Outstanding! My point was pretty clear and is self evident except to those won't see it.Browns fans, all too often, make their decisions about a players greatness, or lack thereof, based soley on who that player plays for. In other words, unable to see beyond the Cleveland Browns fans hatred of the rest of the football world, particularly the great teams of today,s era of football, to make sound decisions.
Browns fans, all too often, refuse to pay attention to what the rest of the football world sees because it often sheds a negative light on the Cleveland Browns. Every announcer, or sports show host, who has ever uttered a negative comment about Cleveland or the Browns is automatically an idiot.....despite the level of truth in the comment!
When the rest of the football world talks about the greatness of former and current Steeler players, Browns fans call them names and and say they are biased, there is some big ugly consiracy. When the rest of the football world fails to talks about the former and current Browns players, Browns fans say the football world is against them.
When the rest of the football world talks about the greatness of former and current players of any successful team, Browns fans can't see it because, all too many, Browns fans have spent their entire life in a Browns vacuum. Hating everyone who has anything negative to say about Cleveland or the Browns (despite the reality that is plain to see)....hating every other team who is successful because the Browns aren't.......hating, with a passion, anything about Pittsburgh or the Steelers because Pittsburgh and the Steelers picked themselves up by the bootstraps and took themselves from the gutter to greatness and remain there! The Browns went from greatness to the gutter, and remain there, and, all too many, Browns fans simply can't accept this.
So........................."Unfortunately, for Browns fans, the rating is done by who they play for"
It's like having a discussion about the beauty of the mountains with a group of people who have never seen the mountains.
Actually, I think this applies here to this guy, who is clearly going over the edge:
Dude is clearly on drugs.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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