Patrick Peterson
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If i had to choose between what i know about Haden already and Peterson then i would take Haden, hes not only a pro bowl type player he embraces Cleveland...Also why dont we just have them both
If i had to choose between what i know about Haden already and Peterson then i would take Haden, hes not only a pro bowl type player he embraces Cleveland...Also why dont we just have them both
Agreed, but that's just right now. If they both played in the NFL last year, or they were both in the draft this year it would obviously be different with Peterson's size and speed and still being a good corner, but Haden has shown such a love for the city that can really only be rivaled with Hillis. Just knowing the Haden is as good as he is in the NFL and knowing that he is about 90% likely to resign with the team when his contract is up makes me pick Haden. Peterson could be another Revis, but there is always the chance that he doesn't like Cleveland and bugs out when his contract is up.
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you don't know anything about college football if you honestly felt Haden was the better cornerback in college than Peterson lol.
I am a Florida Grad.....they are different types of players....I think Joe does stick to his guy better, but Peterson can make up more ground due to his size.....I think both are/were pretty damn good and it is moot trying to argue the difference. Both are capable of being Pro-Bowl, so if we are going to bicker over who is the better Pro-Bowl player, well, leave me out....I won't bicker about that...I'll just smile and not care all that much.
Ed....don't worry about Peterson as a corner....he's Joe but bigger.....thus the safety mention.
As a sidebar...I wouldn't mind a Thom Darden type roaming center field....you, I, and a few others remember him.
I am a Florida Grad.....they are different types of players....I think Joe does stick to his guy better, but Peterson can make up more ground due to his size.....I think both are/were pretty damn good and it is moot trying to argue the difference. Both are capable of being Pro-Bowl, so if we are going to bicker over who is the better Pro-Bowl player, well, leave me out....I won't bicker about that...I'll just smile and not care all that much.
Ed....don't worry about Peterson as a corner....he's Joe but bigger.....thus the safety mention.
As a sidebar...I wouldn't mind a Thom Darden type roaming center field....you, I, and a few others remember him.
How is it moot? Saying one player was better than the other in college (and clearly more physically dominant vs. his opponents) isn't moot. Hell, it's the foundation of what propels most college football tourneys.
And fellas, it's stupid to say that now because hindsight is 20/20. But given what we saw from Haden in college and what we've seen from Peterson in college, it's more than fair to predict Peterson would get picked ahead of Haden in any draft had they come out the same year.
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Like I said.....why worry about it???
I don't know who would of, could of been better....the point is both are pretty damn good.
No??
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I am a Florida Grad.....they are different types of players....I think Joe does stick to his guy better, but Peterson can make up more ground due to his size.....I think both are/were pretty damn good and it is moot trying to argue the difference. Both are capable of being Pro-Bowl, so if we are going to bicker over who is the better Pro-Bowl player, well, leave me out....I won't bicker about that...I'll just smile and not care all that much.
Ed....don't worry about Peterson as a corner....he's Joe but bigger.....thus the safety mention.
As a sidebar...I wouldn't mind a Thom Darden type roaming center field....you, I, and a few others remember him.
How is it moot? Saying one player was better than the other in college (and clearly more physically dominant vs. his opponents) isn't moot. Hell, it's the foundation of what propels most college football tourneys.
And fellas, it's stupid to say that now because hindsight is 20/20. But given what we saw from Haden in college and what we've seen from Peterson in college, it's more than fair to predict Peterson would get picked ahead of Haden in any draft had they come out the same year.
How is it moot? Saying one player was better than the other in college (and clearly more physically dominant vs. his opponents) isn't moot. Hell, it's the foundation of what propels most college football tourneys.
And fellas, it's stupid to say that now because hindsight is 20/20. But given what we saw from Haden in college and what we've seen from Peterson in college, it's more than fair to predict Peterson would get picked ahead of Haden in any draft had they come out the same year.
Haden could have some how won the Heisman and had 9 INT's his last season in college and he still would have been the picked behind Peterson. That's just because of all the physical things Peterson can bring to a team. But notice that I say CAN bring and not WILL bring. GM's put a lot on physical attributes and less on production. Even though statistically Haden had a much better college career (62 more tackles, 1 more FF, 1 more INT, 3 more sacks) Peterson physical ability gets him drafted sooner. The thing is physical ability doesn't necessarily translate into NFL production. If that was the case then Vernon Gholston would have won DPoY instead of getting cut from the Jets.
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you don't know anything about college football if you honestly felt Haden was the better cornerback in college than Peterson lol.
I am a Florida Grad.....they are different types of players....I think Joe does stick to his guy better, but Peterson can make up more ground due to his size.....I think both are/were pretty damn good and it is moot trying to argue the difference. Both are capable of being Pro-Bowl, so if we are going to bicker over who is the better Pro-Bowl player, well, leave me out....I won't bicker about that...I'll just smile and not care all that much.
Ed....don't worry about Peterson as a corner....he's Joe but bigger.....thus the safety mention.
As a sidebar...I wouldn't mind a Thom Darden type roaming center field....you, I, and a few others remember him.
Ed....don't worry about Peterson as a corner....he's Joe but bigger.....thus the safety mention.
i'm not worried. He's the guy.
i was just responding to someone that suggested that we should take him, even if he may falter as a CB because we can play him at Safety. To me, that's not the way to view it.
If you pick a guy to play CB, then he'd better play CB. Safety should not be consonsolation prize, because you would have probably passed on better players that naturally play Safety. That's all i was saying.
Peterson is the guy. If he is on the board and the Browns get him, then there is no doubt that Heckert feels he is a shut down NFL corner.
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Ed....don't worry about Peterson as a corner....he's Joe but bigger.....thus the safety mention.
i'm not worried. He's the guy.
i was just responding to someone that suggested that we should take him, even if he may falter as a CB because we can play him at Safety. To me, that's not the way to view it.
If you pick a guy to play CB, then he'd better play CB. Safety should not be consonsolation prize, because you would have probably passed on better players that naturally play Safety. That's all i was saying.
Peterson is the guy. If he is on the board and the Browns get him, then there is no doubt that Heckert feels he is a shut down NFL corner.
i'm not worried. He's the guy.
i was just responding to someone that suggested that we should take him, even if he may falter as a CB because we can play him at Safety. To me, that's not the way to view it.
If you pick a guy to play CB, then he'd better play CB. Safety should not be consonsolation prize, because you would have probably passed on better players that naturally play Safety. That's all i was saying.
Peterson is the guy. If he is on the board and the Browns get him, then there is no doubt that Heckert feels he is a shut down NFL corner.
Peterson can naturally play defense period... and in this draft the best safety prospect isn't supposed to be drafted until the 2nd round.
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How is it moot? Saying one player was better than the other in college (and clearly more physically dominant vs. his opponents) isn't moot. Hell, it's the foundation of what propels most college football tourneys.
And fellas, it's stupid to say that now because hindsight is 20/20. But given what we saw from Haden in college and what we've seen from Peterson in college, it's more than fair to predict Peterson would get picked ahead of Haden in any draft had they come out the same year.
Haden could have some how won the Heisman and had 9 INT's his last season in college and he still would have been the picked behind Peterson. That's just because of all the physical things Peterson can bring to a team. But notice that I say CAN bring and not WILL bring. GM's put a lot on physical attributes and less on production. Even though statistically Haden had a much better college career (62 more tackles, 1 more FF, 1 more INT, 3 more sacks) Peterson physical ability gets him drafted sooner. The thing is physical ability doesn't necessarily translate into NFL production. If that was the case then Vernon Gholston would have won DPoY instead of getting cut from the Jets.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Haden could have some how won the Heisman and had 9 INT's his last season in college and he still would have been the picked behind Peterson. That's just because of all the physical things Peterson can bring to a team. But notice that I say CAN bring and not WILL bring. GM's put a lot on physical attributes and less on production. Even though statistically Haden had a much better college career (62 more tackles, 1 more FF, 1 more INT, 3 more sacks) Peterson physical ability gets him drafted sooner. The thing is physical ability doesn't necessarily translate into NFL production. If that was the case then Vernon Gholston would have won DPoY instead of getting cut from the Jets.
You misunderstood my point.
As a prospect, Peterson clearly rates much better than Haden and it's not even close. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20, don't think about Haden the Brown, think about Haden the Gator vs. Peterson the tiger. Peterson would be higher on everyone's big board, by a mile.
And that's not a hyperbole.
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And while we're on this topic,
I'm so xxxxing glad we chose Haden over Kyle Wilson.
I remember last year, many people thought we took Haden too early at #7, and that we should have taken Kyle Wilson. On that note, no one has yet to say Peterson at #6 is too early, hell many people are saying he'll be gone by then.
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Geez. Completely different cast of characters in the top ten of this year's draft.
It's silly to compare where a cb would be valued in the same position, in two different drafts with
completely different guys to choose from. Come on.....
And if you can't rush the passer - your cb's had better be very mentally tough.
Here is a excerpt from my draft mag - in the cb's section called "Audibles - what the NFL scouts are saying"
""(LSU's) Patrick Peterson goes low too much as a tackler - it drives me nuts. I'm usually dialed in to height-weight-speed prospects,
but he is horrible at freelancing. He's not good with his back to the ball. If he lands in our division, bombs away."
And, on the write up on Peterson, one of the negatives was "took plays off".
I never heard any criticism like that about Joe Haden. Not once, ever. Different year, different teams, different players on both sides of the ball.
BTW, this draft mag lists the class of CB's in the draft - as a C-. By comparison, the draft class of DE's, in this years draft... is an A+.
So....... if you want a game breaking, game saving elite cb... this year...? It's Peterson. If you need a game breaking, game saving elite DE...
you have more than one choice... you can get them all over the top half of the draft. But, it will still be in the first round, assuming Heyward never
comes close to being there at the top of the second.
Oh, btw... Peterson, I've heard, didn't play much zone. In the NFL, fwiw - How instinctively can he learn the NFL playbook; how quickly?
If the Browns pick him, though, I'll be a happy Browns fan. Peterson is still a special talent. But, if Joe Haden and Peterson were in the same draft,
and my team really needed a star cb to come in and be able to start right away...
I'd pick Joe Haden every time. Not even close, to me. But that has nothing to do with this year's draft. Tough choices, excellent Browns staff to make the choices.
4 days away and counting... @@
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Haden could have some how won the Heisman and had 9 INT's his last season in college and he still would have been the picked behind Peterson. That's just because of all the physical things Peterson can bring to a team. But notice that I say CAN bring and not WILL bring. GM's put a lot on physical attributes and less on production. Even though statistically Haden had a much better college career (62 more tackles, 1 more FF, 1 more INT, 3 more sacks) Peterson physical ability gets him drafted sooner. The thing is physical ability doesn't necessarily translate into NFL production. If that was the case then Vernon Gholston would have won DPoY instead of getting cut from the Jets.
You misunderstood my point.
As a prospect, Peterson clearly rates much better than Haden and it's not even close. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20, don't think about Haden the Brown, think about Haden the Gator vs. Peterson the tiger. Peterson would be higher on everyone's big board, by a mile.
And that's not a hyperbole.
You misunderstood my point.
As a prospect, Peterson clearly rates much better than Haden and it's not even close. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20, don't think about Haden the Brown, think about Haden the Gator vs. Peterson the tiger. Peterson would be higher on everyone's big board, by a mile.
And that's not a hyperbole.
And you miss understand me. I am actually agreeing with you. If they both came out right now, even though Haden had the better college career, Peterson is the higher ranked prospect because of his physical attributes to Haden. Heck if Haden came out this year he would probably be the third SB taken because Prince's physical attributes are not far off from Petersons.
What I am trying to point out though is that attributes can count for crap. Luckyly this really isn't the case for Peterson because he did have a fantastic college career, but really the only time I say pick for physical ability over college production is in the cases where A: the person has only played the position for a few years ex, if Haden had only a few INT's it could have been over looked because he only played CB for like 3-4 years, or B: really can't think of any other reason.
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my apologies, i meant to quote the person above.
but my point remains.
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Geez. Completely different cast of characters in the top ten of this year's draft.
It's silly to compare where a cb would be valued in the same position, in two different drafts with
completely different guys to choose from. Come on.....
And if you can't rush the passer - your cb's had better be very mentally tough.
Here is a excerpt from my draft mag - in the cb's section called "Audibles - what the NFL scouts are saying"
""(LSU's) Patrick Peterson goes low too much as a tackler - it drives me nuts. I'm usually dialed in to height-weight-speed prospects,
but he is horrible at freelancing. He's not good with his back to the ball. If he lands in our division, bombs away."
And, on the write up on Peterson, one of the negatives was "took plays off".
I never heard any criticism like that about Joe Haden. Not once, ever. Different year, different teams, different players on both sides of the ball.
BTW, this draft mag lists the class of CB's in the draft - as a C-. By comparison, the draft class of DE's, in this years draft... is an A+.
So....... if you want a game breaking, game saving elite cb... this year...? It's Peterson. If you need a game breaking, game saving elite DE...
you have more than one choice... you can get them all over the top half of the draft. But, it will still be in the first round, assuming Heyward never
comes close to being there at the top of the second.
Oh, btw... Peterson, I've heard, didn't play much zone. In the NFL, fwiw - How instinctively can he learn the NFL playbook; how quickly?
If the Browns pick him, though, I'll be a happy Browns fan. Peterson is still a special talent. But, if Joe Haden and Peterson were in the same draft,
and my team really needed a star cb to come in and be able to start right away...
I'd pick Joe Haden every time. Not even close, to me. But that has nothing to do with this year's draft. Tough choices, excellent Browns staff to make the choices.
4 days away and counting... @@
Geez. Completely different cast of characters in the top ten of this year's draft.
It's silly to compare where a cb would be valued in the same position, in two different drafts with
completely different guys to choose from. Come on.....
And if you can't rush the passer - your cb's had better be very mentally tough.
Here is a excerpt from my draft mag - in the cb's section called "Audibles - what the NFL scouts are saying"
""(LSU's) Patrick Peterson goes low too much as a tackler - it drives me nuts. I'm usually dialed in to height-weight-speed prospects,
but he is horrible at freelancing. He's not good with his back to the ball. If he lands in our division, bombs away."
And, on the write up on Peterson, one of the negatives was "took plays off".
I never heard any criticism like that about Joe Haden. Not once, ever. Different year, different teams, different players on both sides of the ball.
BTW, this draft mag lists the class of CB's in the draft - as a C-. By comparison, the draft class of DE's, in this years draft... is an A+.
So....... if you want a game breaking, game saving elite cb... this year...? It's Peterson. If you need a game breaking, game saving elite DE...
you have more than one choice... you can get them all over the top half of the draft. But, it will still be in the first round, assuming Heyward never
comes close to being there at the top of the second.
Oh, btw... Peterson, I've heard, didn't play much zone. In the NFL, fwiw - How instinctively can he learn the NFL playbook; how quickly?
If the Browns pick him, though, I'll be a happy Browns fan. Peterson is still a special talent. But, if Joe Haden and Peterson were in the same draft,
and my team really needed a star cb to come in and be able to start right away...
I'd pick Joe Haden every time. Not even close, to me. But that has nothing to do with this year's draft. Tough choices, excellent Browns staff to make the choices.
4 days away and counting... @@
Whatever dude, you've clearly got your mind made up about Haden and Peterson (to me, it's Peterson and it's not even close). But the draft is soon and I we cant do anything but watch this draft.
FWIW, I like Haden, but if Peterson were allowed to come out of last year's draft, he still would have been chosen ahead Haden. Hell, least year they rated damn near the same (Haden better in coverage, Peterson in man).
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Whatever, dude yourself. Haden was more cb NFL ready. But Peterson is really a bigtime cb, too.
Read up on both from CBSSPORTS.com... I posted the analysis excerpts from that same site...
Yes, if Peterson was in last year's draft - I'd still pick Haden. Peterson has a little learnin to do, that's all.
Under "Intangibles"... compare their stats... well, for whatever that is legitimately worth.
It's worth to me, that I'd take Haden first. But,
I will be delighted if the Browns take Peterson this year. Peterson just has a little coaching required, and he'll be a STAR.
That is what the Browns need. But do they need a butt kicking DE/DL more?
We'll all see Thurs evening, 8 o'clock ET..... @@.
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PATRICK PETERSON
Read & React: Possesses good instincts for the position. Reads his man and will sneak a peek at the quarterback, showing the anticipation necessary to make the big play. Can get over-aggressive and bite on double-moves, though he shows good straight-line speed to recover and possesses excellent ball skills. Could come up more aggressively when he reads run, as he's content with allowing teammates to make the tackle, but isn't afraid to come up in run support when he has to.
Man Coverage: Rare fluidity and straight-line speed for a defender of his size. Quick feet and balance when backpedaling and when he switches to a side shuffle technique. Rarely uses his hands to jam the receiver, opting instead simply to turn and run with his opponent. Will occasionally misjudge the speed of his opponent when in off-man coverage, allowing the receiver to eat up too much of the cushion. Easily flips his hips and shows very good burst out of his breaks (especially considering his size) to mirror the receiver. Good acceleration and has a burst to close. Good route-recognition. Good body lean and use of the sideline to ride wideouts out of bounds. Excellent size, overall physicality and competitiveness for jump-ball situations. Times his leaps well and can high-point the ball due to excellent hand-eye coordination.
Zone Coverage: Good recognition for zone coverage, but will drift out of position when he's reading the eyes of quarterbacks, resulting in some big-play interceptions, but also in allowing receptions when savvy passers bait him. Quick feet and balance to change directions. Good route anticipation. Switches off his target quickly when he sees the quarterback throwing elsewhere. Closes on the ball quickly.
Closing/Recovery: Some concern over what his time in the 40-yard dash will be, but shows very good field speed and possesses a second gear of acceleration to close on the ball. Locates the ball quickly and has the long arms to break up passes (or even make the interception) when it appears that he is beaten. Has good, but not elite burst to break downhill out of his cuts, making him susceptible to comeback routes against bigger receivers who challenge him vertically (see Alabama, Texas A&M). Among best attributes is his size, leaping ability and ball skills on fade and go-routes against bigger receivers. Matches up well in jump-ball situations. Isn't afraid to get physical in these confrontations, but because he's going for the ball, doesn't draw the flag. Very good ball skills. Times his leap well, showing a good vertical and possesses the long arms and soft, strong hands to pluck the ball out of the air. Excellent return skills once he has the ball in his hands.
Run Support: When not in press coverage, reads run quickly and either provides the contain to push the runner back inside or makes the tackle himself. Focuses on his primary target - the receiver - when he's in press coverage and can be a step slower to recognize run. Trusts his teammates to make the play, showing good strength and toughness to fight through blocks, but not always the sense of urgency scouts would prefer. Good effort in pursuit. Takes good angles to the ball and has the speed to run down the ballcarrier.
Tackling: Reliable open-field tackler. Breaks down well in space to make the stop against elusive athletes. Willing to take on the bigger ballcarrier and does a nice of wrapping his arms securely around the legs to make the effective stop. Good effort in pursuit. Not an explosive hitter, but plays his size, strength and long arms help him knock down ballcarriers quickly.
Intangibles: Confident, almost cocky demeanor on the field. Possesses the short memory of all great cornerbacks. Extremely competitive. Seems to relish the battles against top receivers in man coverage. Campaigned to be used on special teams and even offense while at LSU due to his natural playmaking skills. Good bloodlines. Cousins of NFL cornerback Bryant McFadden and wide receivers Santana and Sinorice Moss. Characterized as "freak" athlete.
Peterson played in 39 games, starting 30 times. He recorded 135 tackles, 22 pass breakups and seven interceptions on defense. As a return specialist, he finished with 418 punt returns yards and two touchdowns to go with 932 kickoff return yards. Peterson scored touchdowns three different ways during his career with the Tigers - punt returns (2), interception return, and return of a blocked field goal.
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JOE HADEN
Read & React: Typically plays in press or off-man coverage, reading the receiver to gain an advantage on the route. Good straight-line for the deep route. Reacts quickly in zone coverage and when he's facing the quarterback in man coverage. Little wasted motion in closing once he sees the ball in the air.
Man Coverage: Very strong in man coverage. Quick, active hands to provide an initial pop to the receiver in press coverage. Quick feet and loose hips for the transition to run downfield. Good balance and body control to mirror the receiver. Can plant his foot in the ground and explode out of cuts. Good use of hands downfield to prevent separation. Shows a legitimate late burst to close after the ball has been released. Good timing and hand-eye coordination to slap the ball away as it arrives.
Zone Coverage: Smooth, low backpedal out of his stance. Maintains cushion with his backpedal, keeping his eyes alert to receivers in his zone. Changes direction smoothly with no wasted motion. Plays even faster than he has been timed, a credit to his recognition and efficient change-of-direction ability.
Closing/Recovery: Among his best traits. Plants and drives back to the ball very well. Accelerates late and has the body control to contort in space and slap the ball away without drawing a flag. Good straight-line speed to run with any receiver and has a late burst to close if beaten initially. Locates the ball in the air. Good vertical and times his leaps to compete for the jump ball.
Run Support: Reads run and is quick to close toward the line of scrimmage. Evades blocks due to his lateral agility and anticipation and is willing to take on bigger ballcarriers. Understands his role on the edge and approaches it with a workmanlike mentality.
Tackling: Takes good tackle angles, going low against bigger ballcarriers. Isn't an explosive hitter. Grab-and-drag tackler more often than scouts would like, rather than wrapping up securely, but rarely has his tackles broken. Can be dragged a bit by bigger ballcarriers, but gets his man to the ground.
Intangibles: Signed with Florida as a standout prep quarterback and all-around athlete. Originally was expected to play slot receiver, but elected to compete for the starting cornerback position rather than back up Percy Harvin. Team-first player who is a standout special teams player despite his All-American status. Played in 2009 on the punt return, kickoff and punt teams.
Career Notes
Haden played in 40 games at Florida and started every contest, missing just one game in his career with a sprained ankle … Recorded 218 tackles (157 solos), including 3.5 sacks for 24 yards in losses and 8.5 stops for losses of 48 yards … Intercepted eight passes for 166 yards (20.75-yard average) in returns and deflected 34 other tosses … His 88 yard return vs. Georgia in 2008 tied Anthone Lott (vs. Louisiana State, 1994) as the fourth longest interception return in Florida history behind Joe Brodsky (100 vs. Mississippi State, 1956), Jackie Simpson (100 vs. Mississippi State, 1955) and Tony George (89 vs. Tennessee, 1997) … Forced three fumbles and recovered two others … Blocked one kick attempt and returned one kickoff for 18 yards.
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lol wow, someones a little sensitive because I don't hum to his beat.
Agree to disagree. And yes, after reading those excerpts i'd take him 10 times out of 10 over Haden. And many pundits would agree with me. There's a reason why he's been rated as the best cornerback since Champ Bailey.
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dont see the point of arguing over who would get taken in a draft first. the question should be is if you want them both on the field together. i don't see anyone saying no.
it all depends at what cost. with having a deep DL draft we could take one in the 2nd so not sure what the drop off is exactly between DL. anyone know some specifics in the differences between the guys available when we pick from the 1st to the 2nd. (i know im asking people to be fortune tellers here) Its just something im not to up on.
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Well I would be more than happy if we drafted Peterson. They actually interviewed Peterson after his visit with the Browns and he said he really like the organization, and more importantly he really liked the idea of being paired with Joe Haden and making a young good CB tandem.
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Nothin sensitive here, lol.
I will admit, it would really suck if Bowers was the pick, and ended up having knee problems after a few years...
Peterson will be a huge star, a future probable all pro, for years.
Plain truth is, it is probably Peterson, because it's easier to find DE's in FA, but
you will almost never find a Peterson in FA. He's that special.
Maybe the Browns could find Quinn in the second, and have Peterson in the first...
I will love every pick this Browns staff makes in this draft. They know their stuff, bigtime.
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I love Stephen Pea in the 2nd round. Pairing him up with Athyba Rubin would make one powerful trench. In addition to the DEs we pick up through FA/later rounds.
I've said this before and i'll continue saying this, first round should always be BPA (given he's clear-cut) and the later rounds cover up needs. It's about time we got good management handling this club.
It's safe to say we're all excited for the draft.
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Well I would be more than happy if we drafted Peterson. They actually interviewed Peterson after his visit with the Browns and he said he really like the organization, and more importantly he really liked the idea of being paired with Joe Haden and making a young good CB tandem.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Well I would be more than happy if we drafted Peterson. They actually interviewed Peterson after his visit with the Browns and he said he really like the organization, and more importantly he really liked the idea of being paired with Joe Haden and making a young good CB tandem.
nice that he would want to be here. easily could be the best CB tandem in a few years if that happened.
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http://search.espn.go.com/peterson-sports-science/videos/6
I feel like this is a lot like Joe Haden's last year, prolly a bit more impressive.
I WANT HIM!
http://search.espn.g...cience/videos/6
I feel like this is a lot like Joe Haden's last year, prolly a bit more impressive.
I WANT HIM!
and we give up a few less points a game and score NONE........and lose.........good strategy
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