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The Debt

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  • Mr. T Mr. TM
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    Mr. TM Mr. T wrote on last edited by Mr. T
    #1
    Sovereign debt expanding

    The centralizers always believe that going big will be a solution, but all it means is that the postponed bust will be bigger.

    What this chart shows is the way that governments have attempted to arrest the ongoing debt deleveraging by swapping private debt for theoretically more secure "sovereign debt". However, as the incipient defaults of Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, and possibly Italy demonstrate, sovereign debt is no more intrinsically secure than any other form of debt; there have been hundreds of sovereign debt defaults in the last 200 years. This chart shows that the explosion of government debt in the last two years is not limited to the USA, which is why the coming contraction is going to be a) worldwide, and 😎 an order of magnitude larger than the 1929 - 1940 depression.

    AAAratings.jpg

    Source

    I heard this morning that we will reach over 20 Trillion in debt even with the Cut Cap and Balance act.

    We have to stop all of the unnecessary spending otherwise whatever Congress does will not matter.

    Head or Gut?
    VagitronV 1 Reply Last reply
    Quote Reply
    • Mr. TM Mr. T
      Sovereign debt expanding

      The centralizers always believe that going big will be a solution, but all it means is that the postponed bust will be bigger.

      What this chart shows is the way that governments have attempted to arrest the ongoing debt deleveraging by swapping private debt for theoretically more secure "sovereign debt". However, as the incipient defaults of Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, and possibly Italy demonstrate, sovereign debt is no more intrinsically secure than any other form of debt; there have been hundreds of sovereign debt defaults in the last 200 years. This chart shows that the explosion of government debt in the last two years is not limited to the USA, which is why the coming contraction is going to be a) worldwide, and 😎 an order of magnitude larger than the 1929 - 1940 depression.

      AAAratings.jpg

      Source

      I heard this morning that we will reach over 20 Trillion in debt even with the Cut Cap and Balance act.

      We have to stop all of the unnecessary spending otherwise whatever Congress does will not matter.

      Vagitron VagitronV Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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      VagitronV Vagitron wrote on last edited by
      #2

      @mr.-t said:

      AAAratings.jpg

      Source

      I heard this morning that we will reach over 20 Trillion in debt even with the Cut Cap and Balance act.

      We have to stop all of the unnecessary spending otherwise whatever Congress does will not matter.

      You have to spend money to make money and to put the debt on Obama alone is absolutely insane. It's easy to pass the buck and that's exactly what happened when "W" left office. The last time we had a surplus was under Clinton and that was with more taxation on the wealthiest 1% and a greater emphasis on social programs. Instead republicans want to battle on taxing the use of PRIVATE JETS! come on now. The ridiculous cut, cap and balance will NEVER pass, but for the sake of argument we'll say it does. It would be absolutely devastating to the middle class, devastating to education. You can also add in senior citizens. The tax loop holes need closed but the Teapublicans want to keep them open. It's hilarious. Make up your damn mind. I also don't think most of the teapublicans realize the brevity of passing that bill but if they took the time to do ACTUAL research and the effects of it's passing anyone would half a brain would back away slowly.

      AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month)
      1 Reply Last reply
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      • Mr. T Mr. TM
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        Mr. TM Mr. T wrote on last edited by
        #3

        On Sep 30 2000, the national debt was 5.7 trillion.

        On Sep 30, 2006 it was 8.5 trillion.

        The Myth of the Clinton Surplus The government can have a surplus even if it has trillions in debt, but it cannot have a surplus if that debt increased every year. This article is about surplus/deficit, not the debt. However, it analyzes the debt to prove there wasn't a surplus under Clinton

        Source

        SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ)

        1) Over the course of the Bush[43] administration there was a 72% increase in the national debt, from $5.7 trillion to $9.8 trillion – MOSTLY TRUE

        2) At the end of the Bush [43] administration, the U.S. had a $1.5 trillion budget deficit - TRUE

        SEN. MENENDEZ: And it’s not just talking about President Bush, it’s the policies that they espouse that are in essence Bush’s policies. Those led us to a 72 percent increase in the debt from $5.7 trillion to $9.8 trillion when Bush left. It led us to a massive elimination of the surplus that Bill Clinton gave George Bush, and he had a $1.5 trillion deficit when he left office

        1) According to the Treasury Department, when George W. Bush took office in 2001 the national debt was $5.73 trillion and when Bush left office in 2009, the national debt had increased to $10.63 trillion. That’s a 85% increase of $4.9 trillion. Sen. Menendez is off by 13%, but he is correct in the underlying message that the national debt did significantly increase under George W. Bush. Thus, we rate Sen. Menendez’s statement MOSTLY TRUE.

        2) According to the Congressional Budget Office, under former president Bill Clinton there was a budget surplus in 1999 ($1.9 billion) and in 2000 ($86.4 billion). But the surpluses in 1999 and 2000 were not enough to eliminate the national debt. When the federal government spends more money than it takes in, that’s a deficit. When the government takes in more money than it spends, that’s a surplus (Treasury Department budget FAQs). Though former president Bill Clinton had two consecutive surplus years, the U.S. national debt actually increased $400 billion over his term (1992 to 2000).

        When former president Bill Clinton left office in 2000 there was a $86.4 billion surplus. When former president George W. Bush left office in 2008 there was a $1.5 trillion budget deficit. Because Sen. Menendez was correct in stating that there was a $1.5 trillion budget deficit when George W. Bush left office and the budget surplus that Bill Clinton left from his presidency had turned into a deficit, we rate Sen. Menendez’s statement TRUE.

        Source fact Check

        While Clinton lied to everyone about the surplus he also did not have to fight a war after 911 if you can remember. Yes the National debt is a problem and has been under Clinton, "W" and now Obama. But what we are seeing is that this thing is turning from a simple snowball rolling down the mountain into an avalanche under Obama's short term.

        In 2008, the national debt was 40% of GDP. Now it's more than 60%, and it is projected to reach 75% next year, all thanks to Obama.

        I wonder what the real rate of inflation is today? Can you imagine if they raise the debt ceiling how much more the cost of living will become?

        Watch the Gold prices, they will tell you where the American dollar stands among global trading.

        $1600 per ounce and rising under Obama. (It was $980 per ounce when "W" left office.)

        Head or Gut?
        VagitronV Kosar_For_PresidentK 2 Replies Last reply
        Quote Reply
        • Mr. TM Mr. T

          On Sep 30 2000, the national debt was 5.7 trillion.

          On Sep 30, 2006 it was 8.5 trillion.

          The Myth of the Clinton Surplus The government can have a surplus even if it has trillions in debt, but it cannot have a surplus if that debt increased every year. This article is about surplus/deficit, not the debt. However, it analyzes the debt to prove there wasn't a surplus under Clinton

          Source

          SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ)

          1) Over the course of the Bush[43] administration there was a 72% increase in the national debt, from $5.7 trillion to $9.8 trillion – MOSTLY TRUE

          2) At the end of the Bush [43] administration, the U.S. had a $1.5 trillion budget deficit - TRUE

          SEN. MENENDEZ: And it’s not just talking about President Bush, it’s the policies that they espouse that are in essence Bush’s policies. Those led us to a 72 percent increase in the debt from $5.7 trillion to $9.8 trillion when Bush left. It led us to a massive elimination of the surplus that Bill Clinton gave George Bush, and he had a $1.5 trillion deficit when he left office

          1) According to the Treasury Department, when George W. Bush took office in 2001 the national debt was $5.73 trillion and when Bush left office in 2009, the national debt had increased to $10.63 trillion. That’s a 85% increase of $4.9 trillion. Sen. Menendez is off by 13%, but he is correct in the underlying message that the national debt did significantly increase under George W. Bush. Thus, we rate Sen. Menendez’s statement MOSTLY TRUE.

          2) According to the Congressional Budget Office, under former president Bill Clinton there was a budget surplus in 1999 ($1.9 billion) and in 2000 ($86.4 billion). But the surpluses in 1999 and 2000 were not enough to eliminate the national debt. When the federal government spends more money than it takes in, that’s a deficit. When the government takes in more money than it spends, that’s a surplus (Treasury Department budget FAQs). Though former president Bill Clinton had two consecutive surplus years, the U.S. national debt actually increased $400 billion over his term (1992 to 2000).

          When former president Bill Clinton left office in 2000 there was a $86.4 billion surplus. When former president George W. Bush left office in 2008 there was a $1.5 trillion budget deficit. Because Sen. Menendez was correct in stating that there was a $1.5 trillion budget deficit when George W. Bush left office and the budget surplus that Bill Clinton left from his presidency had turned into a deficit, we rate Sen. Menendez’s statement TRUE.

          Source fact Check

          While Clinton lied to everyone about the surplus he also did not have to fight a war after 911 if you can remember. Yes the National debt is a problem and has been under Clinton, "W" and now Obama. But what we are seeing is that this thing is turning from a simple snowball rolling down the mountain into an avalanche under Obama's short term.

          In 2008, the national debt was 40% of GDP. Now it's more than 60%, and it is projected to reach 75% next year, all thanks to Obama.

          I wonder what the real rate of inflation is today? Can you imagine if they raise the debt ceiling how much more the cost of living will become?

          Watch the Gold prices, they will tell you where the American dollar stands among global trading.

          $1600 per ounce and rising under Obama. (It was $980 per ounce when "W" left office.)

          Vagitron VagitronV Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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          VagitronV Vagitron wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @mr.-t said:

          On Sep 30 2000, the national debt was 5.7 trillion.

          On Sep 30, 2006 it was 8.5 trillion.

          While Clinton lied to everyone about the surplus he also did not have to fight a war after 911 if you can remember. Yes the National debt is a problem and has been under Clinton, "W" and now Obama. But what we are seeing is that this thing is turning from a simple snowball rolling down the mountain into an avalanche under Obama's short term.

          In 2008, the national debt was 40% of GDP. Now it's more than 60%, and it is projected to reach 75% next year, all thanks to Obama.

          I wonder what the real rate of inflation is today? Can you imagine if they raise the debt ceiling how much more the cost of living will become?

          Watch the Gold prices, they will tell you where the American dollar stands among global trading.

          $1600 per ounce and rising under Obama. (It was $980 per ounce when "W" left office.)

          Please stop posting links that have zero merit and by merit I mean research backing up those claims from reputable sources. You just linked a conservative blog. Fail and double fail and let's not talk about the "war" that should have never occurred. It was in the wrong country with the wrong dictator for the WRONG reason. Bush has gone on record and admitted that himself. However if you want to go in to wars and running up the National deficit I guess Bush get's a free pass and Obama doesn't? Laughable hypocritical.

          AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month)
          1 Reply Last reply
          Quote Reply
          • Vagitron VagitronV Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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            VagitronV Vagitron wrote on last edited by
            #5
            http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/
            AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month)
            1 Reply Last reply
            Quote Reply
            • Mr. T Mr. TM
              • 7k Posts
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              Mr. TM Mr. T wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Well we can play the blame game all day and all night if you want, but we probably wont even be on the same page.

              If you max out your credit cards, can you as a consumer raise your own debt limit?

              What bank is going to give you a loan if you owe more than your networth?

              Wouldn't you first try to cut out any unnecessary spending by cutting back on things that cost you extra money?

              Would you live within a budget?

              CIA World Factbook; U.S. finances at bottom of planet

              You'll flip when you see list of nations performing better

              The United States ranks last among all nations in the world when it comes to its current account balance, astronomically lower than every other economy, the CIA reports.

              Source

              CIA

              Head or Gut?
              1 Reply Last reply
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              • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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                C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Bush ran up the deficit by 1.6 billion. A DAY.

                ObaMao is running it up by 4.2 I think it was. That's billion a day.

                Bush gets a partial free pass because we were attacked on 9/11.

                But Obamao has skyrocketed the debt beyond all reason. It has to stop NOW.

                Mr. TM Kosar_For_PresidentK 2 Replies Last reply
                Quote Reply
                • C calfoxwc

                  Bush ran up the deficit by 1.6 billion. A DAY.

                  ObaMao is running it up by 4.2 I think it was. That's billion a day.

                  Bush gets a partial free pass because we were attacked on 9/11.

                  But Obamao has skyrocketed the debt beyond all reason. It has to stop NOW.

                  Mr. T Mr. TM
                  • 7k Posts
                  • 184 Reputation
                  Mr. TM Mr. T wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @calfoxwc said:

                  Bush ran up the deficit by 1.6 billion. A DAY.

                  ObaMao is running it up by 4.2 I think it was. That's billion a day.

                  Bush gets a partial free pass because we were attacked on 9/11.

                  But Obamao has skyrocketed the debt beyond all reason. It has to stop NOW.

                  Libs wont listen to reason, they only cry and make noise like a clapping monkey crying foul play.

                  ClappingMonkey.gif

                  Head or Gut?
                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Mr. TM Mr. T

                    On Sep 30 2000, the national debt was 5.7 trillion.

                    On Sep 30, 2006 it was 8.5 trillion.

                    The Myth of the Clinton Surplus The government can have a surplus even if it has trillions in debt, but it cannot have a surplus if that debt increased every year. This article is about surplus/deficit, not the debt. However, it analyzes the debt to prove there wasn't a surplus under Clinton

                    Source

                    SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ)

                    1) Over the course of the Bush[43] administration there was a 72% increase in the national debt, from $5.7 trillion to $9.8 trillion – MOSTLY TRUE

                    2) At the end of the Bush [43] administration, the U.S. had a $1.5 trillion budget deficit - TRUE

                    SEN. MENENDEZ: And it’s not just talking about President Bush, it’s the policies that they espouse that are in essence Bush’s policies. Those led us to a 72 percent increase in the debt from $5.7 trillion to $9.8 trillion when Bush left. It led us to a massive elimination of the surplus that Bill Clinton gave George Bush, and he had a $1.5 trillion deficit when he left office

                    1) According to the Treasury Department, when George W. Bush took office in 2001 the national debt was $5.73 trillion and when Bush left office in 2009, the national debt had increased to $10.63 trillion. That’s a 85% increase of $4.9 trillion. Sen. Menendez is off by 13%, but he is correct in the underlying message that the national debt did significantly increase under George W. Bush. Thus, we rate Sen. Menendez’s statement MOSTLY TRUE.

                    2) According to the Congressional Budget Office, under former president Bill Clinton there was a budget surplus in 1999 ($1.9 billion) and in 2000 ($86.4 billion). But the surpluses in 1999 and 2000 were not enough to eliminate the national debt. When the federal government spends more money than it takes in, that’s a deficit. When the government takes in more money than it spends, that’s a surplus (Treasury Department budget FAQs). Though former president Bill Clinton had two consecutive surplus years, the U.S. national debt actually increased $400 billion over his term (1992 to 2000).

                    When former president Bill Clinton left office in 2000 there was a $86.4 billion surplus. When former president George W. Bush left office in 2008 there was a $1.5 trillion budget deficit. Because Sen. Menendez was correct in stating that there was a $1.5 trillion budget deficit when George W. Bush left office and the budget surplus that Bill Clinton left from his presidency had turned into a deficit, we rate Sen. Menendez’s statement TRUE.

                    Source fact Check

                    While Clinton lied to everyone about the surplus he also did not have to fight a war after 911 if you can remember. Yes the National debt is a problem and has been under Clinton, "W" and now Obama. But what we are seeing is that this thing is turning from a simple snowball rolling down the mountain into an avalanche under Obama's short term.

                    In 2008, the national debt was 40% of GDP. Now it's more than 60%, and it is projected to reach 75% next year, all thanks to Obama.

                    I wonder what the real rate of inflation is today? Can you imagine if they raise the debt ceiling how much more the cost of living will become?

                    Watch the Gold prices, they will tell you where the American dollar stands among global trading.

                    $1600 per ounce and rising under Obama. (It was $980 per ounce when "W" left office.)

                    Kosar_For_President Kosar_For_PresidentK
                    • 6k Posts
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                    Kosar_For_PresidentK Kosar_For_President wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @mr.-t said:

                    On Sep 30 2000, the national debt was 5.7 trillion.

                    On Sep 30, 2006 it was 8.5 trillion.

                    While Clinton lied to everyone about the surplus he also did not have to fight a war after 911 if you can remember. Yes the National debt is a problem and has been under Clinton, "W" and now Obama. But what we are seeing is that this thing is turning from a simple snowball rolling down the mountain into an avalanche under Obama's short term.

                    In 2008, the national debt was 40% of GDP. Now it's more than 60%, and it is projected to reach 75% next year, all thanks to Obama.

                    I wonder what the real rate of inflation is today? Can you imagine if they raise the debt ceiling how much more the cost of living will become?

                    Watch the Gold prices, they will tell you where the American dollar stands among global trading.

                    $1600 per ounce and rising under Obama. (It was $980 per ounce when "W" left office.)

                    T, I too am not a fan of Obama, to say the least, but I will repeat from our constitution:

                    "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

                    To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

                    The sooner

                    Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12
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                    • C calfoxwc

                      Bush ran up the deficit by 1.6 billion. A DAY.

                      ObaMao is running it up by 4.2 I think it was. That's billion a day.

                      Bush gets a partial free pass because we were attacked on 9/11.

                      But Obamao has skyrocketed the debt beyond all reason. It has to stop NOW.

                      Kosar_For_President Kosar_For_PresidentK
                      • 6k Posts
                      • 221 Reputation
                      Kosar_For_PresidentK Kosar_For_President wrote on last edited by Kosar_For_President
                      #10

                      @calfoxwc said:

                      Bush ran up the deficit by 1.6 billion. A DAY.

                      ObaMao is running it up by 4.2 I think it was. That's billion a day.

                      Bush gets a partial free pass because we were attacked on 9/11.

                      But Obamao has skyrocketed the debt beyond all reason. It has to stop NOW.

                      I do agree Cal it does how to stop now. It's easy to blame either president, rather then to look at Congress individually, I get it your lazy. People you need to read up on the thieves in Congress. I've picked one a day to read up on, everyone but 2 so far have done some bad shit to rip off the American people. FACT.

                      Sure the President can veto their shit, but these policies have been in place too long, the ball is already rolling. And none of these fooks want to give up their golden goose.

                      The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

                      To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

                      Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12
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                      • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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                        C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        I'm not lazy, Mr. Scoobydoo, I'm freakin exhuasted. LOL

                        Yes, the problem is also Congress. But the divide is causing a huge problem in Congress. If it's a Dem pres, the Dems will give him anything he wants for

                        future political favors.

                        If it's a Rep, yes, same thing, but not nearly as much.

                        The Dems raised all hell about raising the deficit under Bush. Now, they are demanding that the deficit be increased under Obamao, with no

                        cuts in spending.

                        But the Dems had the presidency for two years, with a solid, controlling majority in both houses of Congress. And they did not do

                        ANYTHING about the freakin debt, except make it FAR WORSE. They didn't do ANYTHING about illegal immigration, except encourage it

                        to be WORSE.

                        But, Obamao didn't make the terrorism threat worse. Because he continued Bush's foreign policy about that in dramatic fashion., so now,

                        it's time to get a REAL Republican pres (I want Bachman sp?), and a Republican dominated Congress, and we will give THEM a chance

                        to freakin start solving problems. If that doesn't happen, then a bunch of Dems and Reps need to start a third political party.

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