Why All The Hate Already?
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hmmmmmm...............maybe this all has something to do with the fact that your team has a new HC, a new DC, a new offensive sceme, a new defensive sceme, oh and all that in a year that your team was robbed of it's offseason by the lockout.
wow, i just cant believe that your team isn't lighting the world on fire!
your team will suck this year. it will be through no fault of theirs...........if the Steelers were going through what you guys have i'd be expecting a sub .500 season. EXPECTING IT!
unfortunatly there were too many homeristic morons around here spouting off that you were headed for an undefeated season that i think the majority of you started actually drinking their kool-aid.
wake up, it's a muligan season for what looks like the start of a legit contender of a team especially if they can make those 2 1st rounders pay off this draft.
goodell and the owners xxxxed you this season and you should just realize that and that no team would perform well under similar circumstances.
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@albinorhino40 said:
Game Changers - Cribbs, Haden, Hillis, EMoore, DJackson, Ward, and a bunch of other young guys who are finally given the opportunity to prove if they are game changers or not...
yeah and who was the head coach when these 'impact players' were drafted. exactly.
but holmgren is such a genius that he takes a team last year that was playing way above it's head, disciplined and turn it into a laughing stock week 1 of this season?
BTW how was holmgren responsible for josh cribbs being here or DQ? shows how much you know.
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Are you saying the Mr. 10-22 should still be the coach?
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What's there to be negative about? You taken your first great stride to the top of the Andrew Luck sweepstakes, by getting beaten by one of possibly the worst NFL franchises last weekend. Plus according to Warren Sapp the Steelers run on greatness has come to an abrupt ending, and are now the Steelers are your only true obstacle to obtaining Andrew Luck. I bet the sun has come out and Cleveland is have a spectacular day. Once you land Luck, it'll be the single greatest player addition since Manning was drafted, and the Browns will only be 2-3 years from relevance. Congrats!
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@albinorhino40 said:
Game Changers - Cribbs, Haden, Hillis, EMoore, DJackson, Ward, and a bunch of other young guys who are finally given the opportunity to prove if they are game changers or not...
yeah and who was the head coach when these 'impact players' were drafted. exactly.
but holmgren is such a genius that he takes a team last year that was playing way above it's head, disciplined and turn it into a laughing stock week 1 of this season?
BTW how was holmgren responsible for josh cribbs being here or DQ? shows how much you know.
yeah and who was the head coach when these 'impact players' were drafted. exactly.
but holmgren is such a genius that he takes a team last year that was playing way above it's head, disciplined and turn it into a laughing stock week 1 of this season?
BTW how was holmgren responsible for josh cribbs being here or DQ? shows how much you know.
Right... I list 6 players and you name 2 of them as being here before Holmgren. You told me.
Plus, what does the coach have to do with drafting impact players? Heckert drafted the other 4 listed above plus 3 potential playmakers this years draft (taylor, sheard, little). Also, it was Holmgren who wanted McCoy n he's another potential impact player. Plus, we have 2 1st picks next year...
I don't get your rationale or what you suppose as better than we are doing now. Keep Mangini? Fire Shurmur after 1 game?
Get on board with the new regime or go root for another team
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For what its worth I was a very big supporter of Mangini and a very big doubter of Homgram himself (due to him being a crap drafter and GM in general in Seattle) Luckily we don't have to worry about Holmgrem doing much here other then letting Heckert run the show. I would have definitly liked to see Mangini stay because I feel like we saw progress last year. I would definitly liked to see a new OC though as Daboll was crap. I think if the intention to fire Mangini was there it should have been done before 2010 season so we could have switched to the WCO and 4-3 that the higher ups wanted. I also thought the Shurmer hire was a mistake ... not because of Shurmer himself, because I didn't know a helluva lot about him prior to being hired, but because I thought this team needed a established HC to teach and mold these very young and very raw players. I also hate any coach calling his own plays ... and hate it double as much from a rookie HC. The Mangini fire/Shurmer hire did in my opinion set us back an extra yr, but is in the past now and I (we) have to move on from it and embrace coach Shurmer now because he is leading out beloved Brownies into battle.
As far as the current state of the Browns ... I honestly love it. Sure we lost to Cincy,but its one game we still have 15 more. No one here (except Zombo) thought the Browns were a playoff team. I personally thought if the stars alligned we could maybe go 8-8 because of a soft scheduale.
I see why people are upset .... we didn't spend money in free agency. I get it. But really who would have come here that would have really helped us that much?? I know people are calling for a playmaking WR ... but who??? Is Mike Sims Walker or Sidney Rice really an answer to anything?? MSW got a one year deal sure we could have given him a one yr deal to be a stop gap, but why?? to help us maybe win another game or 2 (if he is even worth a win or 2) We have 2 WRs going into year 3 which is typically the big breakout yr for a WR lets give them there shot. We have Carlton Mitchell who is a very decent raw talent going into yr 2 ... and my favorite of all we have the rookie Greg Little who looks very good and a lot of "experts" (yes experts not message board trolls) love him. On NFL networks draft broadcast Jason Laconfora said he thought Little was the second best WR in this draft before Green. Beyond all that though my question is are those guys that much better then what we have??? Rice had one 1000 yard yr through his first 4 years(it was his third yr) and coincidently his first 2 yrs resembled MoMass' first 2 years but not really as good. MSW has never had a 1000 yr. I know I know ... there were also a lot of people that wanted TO/Moss .... TO first off had knee surgery and is 37 years old. I love TO and I honestly love his work ethic and drive and would have no problem with him being a Brown ... if he A. didn't get hurt,B. we were a second WR away from being a good team, and C. would take vet minimum or close to it. Now for Moss ... Are you guys kidding me??? First off he retired and he isn't going to come out of retirement to play for a losing team. Second of all HE DIDN'T HELP any of 3 teams he played for last year. Problem with Moss is ... He does what he wants not what is required of him. He is and always will be a me first kind of a player and that is not what is being built here. This regime knows football and has a vision of what there team is going to look like in 3 years. Moss does not fit anything they want to do.
Ok ... so why didn't we sign any FAs on the defensive side of the ball??? well we needed a corner and Nmandi had no interest in us .... rumors were we made a play for Jonathan Joseph, but he chose to go elsewhere. We also supposedly went after Ray Edwards both of those guys went to teams closer to being winning teams rather then coming here where we are still laying a foundation. And that is fine. Sure we could have offered them more money ... but is throwing great player money at good players a move a good GM makes??? absolutely not.
Making a big splash in free agency this year made no sense at all. We are building a foundation now. A foundation of a team that is going to good for years to come. Free agents just would patch up holes. This is Heckerts second off season and his first with the coach him and Holmgrem want to go to battle with. The team also is just switching defenses and offenses which required new personel. Hate to say it but Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will these Cleveland Browns.
For the first time since 1999 I see a light at the end of a tunnel. If these 3 (Heckert, Walrus, and Shurmer) stick together I can see great things happen. We have never had a GM as good as heckert we just have to sit back and watch him construct this team.
It blows my mind to see people hate so much on Heckert and say he is a terrible GM. In his 2 years lets look at what he has done.
2010 off season first ...
I will also say this before I get started. The 2010 season 2 things in my opinion were going on. We were A. laying down a strong foundation B. At the same time we also had a lot of vets on the team brought in my Mangini so they were also trying to see if they could add some more to see if maybe Mangini's system could work (while trying to get younger as well)
Traded Brady Quinn for Peyton Hillis and 2 draft picks. Obviously this was an amazing move
Traded a late round pick for Senaca Wallace. This too was a very good move as we were able to get one of the best back up QBs in football as a back up plan to whichever vet the would decide to bring in (obviosly we ended up bringing in Delhomme later on)we had no QBs and needed bodies
Traded picks for Sheldon Brown and Chris Gocong This was a solid move as we needed bodies at both positions.
Key free agents signed Scott Fujita, Ben Watson, and Jake Delhomme. Watson and Fujita were both very good signings. Delhomme I was against from day 1. He was washed up, but they rolled the dice on him and he looked very good in the pre season and up until he got hurt in the first game of the season last year. I will still say he was an epic fail and a prime example of why teams build through the draft.
2010 Draft obviously it is still to early to fully tell how he drafted as it is only a year into all these players respective careers.
1. Joe Haden There is a very good chance Haden makes numerous pro bowls in his career and as a rookie who only started for the second half of the season was named a pro bowl alternate. Haden is a future stud in the making. Most importantly for all the people crying we have no play makers ... Haden is indeed a playmaker.
2A. TJ Ward Ward was named to Sporting News All Rookie team and is an absolute beast at strong safety. A lot of people hated this pick at the time (myself included) but he has certainly panned out
2B. Montario Hardesty Obviously this is one of the tougher picks to judge because of his health concerns. I am not a big fan of this move .. but lets wait and see.
3A. Colt McCoy The future rides on Colts arm. Lead us to some big wins over very good teams and played well against some very good defenses
3B. Shawn Lavauo He didn't play much last year and is now starting this year. His body of work is hard to judge right now.
6A. Larry Asante Ham and Egger
6B. Carlton Mitchell Mitchell was a raw talent who was expected to be a project. Personally I love this kid, but it remains to be seen what he does on the field.
7. Clifton Gathers Another ham and egger.
So to recap in draft number 1 we got a future shut down corner who is a playmaker, a safety who could potentially be a pro bowler, and possibly our QB of the future. On top of that we also have some relative unknowns who can at the very least round out our roster within the next couple of years and give us some much needed depth.
And now for the 2011 off season
First of dumped all of the crap off this team. Rogers, Stucky, Bowens, Robaire Smith, Barton to name a few. Eeryone old and with there best days behind them were shown the door. That is a positive. Addition by subtraction. Unfortunately Elam walked as well and I would have liked to see him stay, but no great loss either. Heckert did try to sign E. Wright from what I have read, but E. Wright wanted to bolt. I would have also liked to see him come back as a nickle back ... but he wanted a shot to start and the Lions gave him that.
Now on to the lucrative list of free agents
We didn't do much, but the guys we did add were young guys with upside. RB Brandon Jackson has played in the WCO and has played decently as a spot starter and back up which is what we signed him to do. Sexy signing? No, certainly not, but he was a very good depth move. Unfortunately we already lost him for the season. The other move was free safety Usama Young. He was stuck behind 2 very good safeties in New Orleans and is 26 and entering the prime of his career. This kid has some nice upside which is the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is he is average and we address this next yr via draft/FA.
Now on to 2011 Draft which again is to early to tell ...
1. Phil Taylor - after 1 game he looks like a beast. obviously a lot of football needs to played still but he is off to a nice start.
2A. Jabal Sheard - I didn't like this pick then I do not like it now. We needed D-lineman and he was one of the higher rated ones available.
2B. Greg Little - This kid is going to be a beast and our number 1 WR. He just have to get back in sync from missing a year of football.
4. Jordan Cameron- a project TE who is VERY atletic and if he learns the position could be a real playmaker
5. Owen Marecic - Started and played decently in the Cincy game
5B Buster Skrine - This kid is fast as hell and could be a huge steal in round number 5
5C. Jason Pinkston Another kid who started out of the gate and played pretty decently
7 Eric Hagg - ???
Also Heckert found undrafted rookie Armond Smith who looks like he has the potential to be a gamebreaker down the road with his speed.
Heckert managed to pull 4-5 opening day starters out of this years draft and Skrine who will probably see more and more PT as the season goes on. And just like the season it is to early to tell how good/bad the rookies are. We also managed to pick up some additional picks in next years draft including a first rounder. When someone drafts as well as it seem Heckert is drafting that seems like a beautiful thing.
Right now these drafts both look very very good. And will lay down a very good foundation. It is a very young season with a very young core of players and a brand new head coach. This isn't a time to be negative and bitch and cry about wanting Randy Moss. This is a time to sit back and watch these kids grow into a good team. And next year we add a couple more good players in the first round of the draft and some other players thoughout the rest of the draft and then we sign a couple free agents to put us over the hump.
If you think this is the same old Browns kinda regime you are wrong. Our past regimes were unorganized and confused. Coach wanted to go one direction while the GM wanted to another ... not to mention GM's who didn't know what they were doing and didn't know how to draft. Sure Heckert has made mistakes ... it is part of the process. Sure he has and will continue to draft guys who are busts ... but what GM doesn't?? This team wasn't being built with 2011 in mind. It is being put together with 2012 and beyond in mind.
Sorry for the long read.
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Why has everybody on this board given up already?
I used to like reading the threads here, but they have already gotten so negative that it is upsetting.
For everybody who has lost faith in Holmgren and wants him ousted, I got a suggestion for you...
Quit pretending to be a fan of my beloved Cleveland Browns!!!!!!!!
You are obviously not a fan of this team if you think we should jump ship on Holmgren and bring in yet another regime to fail for 2 seasons so they can be gotten rid of for another one, and so on, and so on....
If you think getting rid of Holmgren would help, then you obviously have not been watching this team for the last 12 years. GIVE THEM A CHANCE!!!!!!
Shurmur is a rookie head coach with a short offseason to prepare his team to play. HE IS GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES!!!!
Our team is young. If we brought in Ray Edwards, Vincent Jackson, Nndamni Asomuagh, and whoever else you guys wanted, and we drafted Julio Jones do you really think this team would be Super Bowl bound this year?? NO!!!
We are developing our young players, and creating an identity for this team. Yes they may suck this year, but at least we aren't just bringing in stop-gap guys who do nothing for us and they leave gigantic holes for us when they leave. After this season, we will have a whole bunch of guys experienced in the WCO and 4-3 defense on top of whom we can add talent through FA and the draft. Plus, we have 2 #1 picks next year.
I believe in Holmgren, and I want to see him stay with this team for 7+ years as our President, and I want to see Heckert and Shurmur here for the same amount of time.
Maybe, if we stopped booing our team on Sundays and instead stand behind them in the face of adversity, we would get more passionate play from them. It is all this booing and knee jerk reacting that gets Lerner involved with this team to make changes so that he can keep the fans happy.
Let's just see what these guys can do and maybe try rooting them on instead of having ridiculous expectations that they are doomed to not live up to. Maybe by the end of the year they will develop a nucleus of players that can not only compete, but win football games.
Why has everybody on this board given up already?
I used to like reading the threads here, but they have already gotten so negative that it is upsetting.
For everybody who has lost faith in Holmgren and wants him ousted, I got a suggestion for you...
Quit pretending to be a fan of my beloved Cleveland Browns!!!!!!!!
You are obviously not a fan of this team if you think we should jump ship on Holmgren and bring in yet another regime to fail for 2 seasons so they can be gotten rid of for another one, and so on, and so on....
If you think getting rid of Holmgren would help, then you obviously have not been watching this team for the last 12 years. GIVE THEM A CHANCE!!!!!!
Shurmur is a rookie head coach with a short offseason to prepare his team to play. HE IS GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES!!!!
Our team is young. If we brought in Ray Edwards, Vincent Jackson, Nndamni Asomuagh, and whoever else you guys wanted, and we drafted Julio Jones do you really think this team would be Super Bowl bound this year?? NO!!!
We are developing our young players, and creating an identity for this team. Yes they may suck this year, but at least we aren't just bringing in stop-gap guys who do nothing for us and they leave gigantic holes for us when they leave. After this season, we will have a whole bunch of guys experienced in the WCO and 4-3 defense on top of whom we can add talent through FA and the draft. Plus, we have 2 #1 picks next year.
I believe in Holmgren, and I want to see him stay with this team for 7+ years as our President, and I want to see Heckert and Shurmur here for the same amount of time.
Maybe, if we stopped booing our team on Sundays and instead stand behind them in the face of adversity, we would get more passionate play from them. It is all this booing and knee jerk reacting that gets Lerner involved with this team to make changes so that he can keep the fans happy.
Let's just see what these guys can do and maybe try rooting them on instead of having ridiculous expectations that they are doomed to not live up to. Maybe by the end of the year they will develop a nucleus of players that can not only compete, but win football games.
Excellent post! There are actually quite a few of us who agree with what you state. I just feel somewhat sorry for those who are unable to see a "direction" & "plan" that we had not seen in past years. I remember a time when naysayers were saying "We will NEVER beat the Colts!".....1964, as I recall.
Better time are ahead. I see a return to glory in the not so distant future.
Mike
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yeah and who was the head coach when these 'impact players' were drafted. exactly.
but holmgren is such a genius that he takes a team last year that was playing way above it's head, disciplined and turn it into a laughing stock week 1 of this season?
BTW how was holmgren responsible for josh cribbs being here or DQ? shows how much you know.
Right... I list 6 players and you name 2 of them as being here before Holmgren. You told me.
Plus, what does the coach have to do with drafting impact players? Heckert drafted the other 4 listed above plus 3 potential playmakers this years draft (taylor, sheard, little). Also, it was Holmgren who wanted McCoy n he's another potential impact player. Plus, we have 2 1st picks next year...
I don't get your rationale or what you suppose as better than we are doing now. Keep Mangini? Fire Shurmur after 1 game?
Get on board with the new regime or go root for another team
Right... I list 6 players and you name 2 of them as being here before Holmgren. You told me.
Plus, what does the coach have to do with drafting impact players? Heckert drafted the other 4 listed above plus 3 potential playmakers this years draft (taylor, sheard, little). Also, it was Holmgren who wanted McCoy n he's another potential impact player. Plus, we have 2 1st picks next year...
I don't get your rationale or what you suppose as better than we are doing now. Keep Mangini? Fire Shurmur after 1 game?
Get on board with the new regime or go root for another team
yeah, that's what i want. fire shurmur. start all over again like we are doing this year. that's exactly what i want. and then let's bring in another holmgren WCO puppet and when they lose four games we fire them too. and keep going and going.
and and you must be right that the head coach has no input on the players being drafted. what a dolt.
i am on board WITH THE BROWNS just don't like holmgren. is that alright with you?
i was rooting for the browns while the best part of you was dripping down your mother's legs.
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I haven't lost faith in anyone but realistically we have little talent and bad coaching at this point. Were not winning many games thats for sure. My excitement for the season is done. I'll still watch, but begrudgingly
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I haven't lost faith in anyone but realistically we have little talent and bad coaching at this point. Were not winning many games thats for sure. My excitement for the season is done. I'll still watch, but begrudgingly
I haven't lost faith in anyone but realistically we have little talent and bad coaching at this point. Were not winning many games thats for sure. My excitement for the season is done. I'll still watch, but begrudgingly
We don't really have little talent ... we have little depth.
And how can you say we have bad coaching after 1 game?? We have a rookie HC give the guy a chance ... atleast a half season before you start passing judgement.
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I haven't lost faith in anyone but realistically we have little talent and bad coaching at this point. Were not winning many games thats for sure. My excitement for the season is done. I'll still watch, but begrudgingly
We don't really have little talent ... we have little depth.
And how can you say we have bad coaching after 1 game?? We have a rookie HC give the guy a chance ... atleast a half season before you start passing judgement.
We don't really have little talent ... we have little depth.
And how can you say we have bad coaching after 1 game?? We have a rookie HC give the guy a chance ... atleast a half season before you start passing judgement.
Everyone looks better after the colts win. Not good, exactly, but better.
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