Browns 2012
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Okay, 2011 is almost in the books. It's pretty grim right now but at least we all had at least a inkling that it would turn out this way. We knew from the get go that the Browns would have offensive woes since we didn't change a thing(except Little) and let go of our best blocker(Non-Lineman ala Vickers). I had hopes we could surprise(even ourselves) but never the less knew we'd be building up for the 2012 season. Sometimes to grow you have to prune back the tree which leaves it looking fragile and thin, which is what the Browns did this year.. a pruning back so to speak.
Am I happy, hell no. Vickers was one of my favorite players. Plus, I hate, hate, hate losing more than anything else. However, we did put a couple pieces in place last year in order for us to be successful this year. Taylor-Sheard are an awesome duo to get in one year. Plus we finally got a legit #2 WR in Little. We also added "FUTURE" work-in-progress pieces in Cameron, Pinkston and Skrine. Was it Blockbuster? Not really... Was it Blockbuster in addition to Atlanta's 1st and 4th this Draft? Yes. We didn't go crazy in FA but then with a new HC(Clueless as he seems) and staff, we needed a better grasp of what we have and what we need. I think we have that now, a working model of where we're lacking and need improvement.
So my question and the purpose of this thread is to discuss the 2012 Browns. If you were the GM and calling the shots- What would you prefer to do? Would you rather us Draft heavy on the Defense or Offense, would you go balanced? Would you try to fill our gaps in talent with FA on Defense or Offense? Could we, if we went Defense heavy in the draft, create a top tier D this year? Could you live with a top tier Defense and only a marginal improvement on the Offense? Or would you rather make a respectable Offense with additions in the Draft and FA and leave the Defense pretty much as is? Is there any way to significantly improve both the Offense AND Defense this year to make a run at the playoff next year.
I'm still deciding what would give us the greatest advantage and how it would impact the following draft in 2013. I'm happy that we decided to trade down as I didn't really like J.Jones all that much and I don't think he that much of an upgrade over Greg Little. Once Little hits his stride and develops into a role in the NFL he'll be at least as solid as JJ I believe. I wouldn't give 2 firsts and and second and two 4ths for a Julio Jones, would you? But with that said, I wouldn't want us to trade back this year because that is what we did last year, we've read that story already, now we're ready to reap the benefits of that trade down now. We need it now. If they want to trade down next year, I don't care but not this years unless it's an even better deal than we got last year...
We need to work on making one or the other, I think, elite this year. Either Offense or Defense.
On Offense, I'd go- OT, OG, WR, FB, QB, in no particular order.
On Defense, I'd go- DE, OLB, FS, CB, CB, in no particular order.
We could take the best two CB's available or any number of possibilities it's staggering. I'm excited for next season just to continue to build. Make one elite this year and finish the other next year. What's your take?
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The only spot I would focus on improving on the O line is RT. I certainly wouldn't waste a early pick on it though or dump big money into the lap of a free agent. I feel like if steiny comes back we are fine from center left ... and with improved play from QB (whoever that may be) and the skill positions the line will develop just fine (much like it did in 2007)
As far as what to do on offense .... First thing I would do is go out and sign a legit number 1 WR. I don't waste a pick on WR for 2 reasons A. It is just to big of a hole right now and B. we need immediate help not help 2-3 years down the road when that WR develops. Realisitcally the biggest name out there that I can see us bringing in is Desean Jackson. I don't care about the attitude the kid can flat out play when he wants too. Other names available could be guys such as Colston, Steve Johnson, and Dwayne Bowe. Any of them would be fine I guess as they are all legit talents. I wouldn't hate somebody like a Mario Manningham coming in also if we were to go after 2 WRs.
QB wise ... I am torn there is a part of me that wants to wait on Colt for another year or 2 to see how he develops. If we don't let Colt run the offense another year with improved weapons to work with I do not want to waste a pick on a QB ... I rather bring in Matt Flynn. Basically I am all for either Colt or Flynn at this point. Either way though we need some weapons for them.
RB I say resign Hillis if the deal is right and makes sense. I wouldn't use him as a feature back ... I would use him in short yardage downs and to catch the ball out of the backfield. I would target a fast, ellusive play making running back in round 3 to compliment him. Someone like Lamichael James.
With our picks ... idealy if we were able to fill our WR holes via FA I would love for us to draft DE-LB-CB with out first 3 picks. We are so much closer to having an elite defense it appears I say lets go for it.
I also think we are going to need to add another LB via free agency. If we can't get a backer via FA we can go with a DE and draft 2 backers instead. We def need to draft a CB with one of those 3 picks. Drafting a CB could essentially fill 2 holes as we could possibly move Sheldon Brown to FS.
Also ... I am not a Marecic fan, but I will say this ... Vickers was shit too his rookie year so lets see if he is able to bulk up and learn to block a little better.
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Best player available. We have enough holes and it wont be an issue.
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Look, I really like Colt McCoy. The young man is a stand up guy. I've loved every single thing about the guy. From holding his virginity to deciding against drinking and swearing. He's not perfect but no one man is. My faith tells me God will bless Colt in whatever he wants Colt to do. If that envelops Colt helping Cleveland win a SuperBowl in his glory, I'm all for that. All I know is that I want Colt to succeed here, I really do. I'm not sacking the kid yet. I know the grass is always greener on the other side but it's not, it's the same grass. Let's trust that Colt's stacking the hay in the barn and learning and growing with each game. Let's trust our Offensive Superstar Joe Thomas in his endorsement of Colt. Let's listen to the guys around in that offensive huddle, they want to follow Colt. McCoy isn't the locker room arm wrestling champion. He isn't the 6'6" statuesque of a man that appears Zues like from afar. Colts an "everyman" with an iron will and determination. What history would tell us is, "Don't count out the underdog." Let's give Colt a little more time.
Now having said that, I really like Reggie Griffen III. I was wondering- would he be worth a first round pick to use like a Josh Cribbs? Now we got Josh as an undrafted rookie and found a diamond in the rough that can do it all. My question is, What if RG3 is the next incantation of Josh Cribbs. The evolution of a what Cribbs has evolved into. Imagine having RG3, Cribbs, Little and Norwood split out wide with Colt from the Shotgun lined up next to Hillis. It would be like almost any play could be a gadget. The D would be so screwed up and be confused. Colt can catch, run all them out there and change the game. That would spark our offense I believe. I wish I was coach. I'd run that and call audible and put Cribbs back in I formation with Hillis at TE and Colt at WR and RG3 at QB. Crazy to think about.
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Look, I really like Colt McCoy. The young man is a stand up guy. I've loved every single thing about the guy. From holding his virginity to deciding against drinking and swearing. He's not perfect but no one man is. My faith tells me God will bless Colt in whatever he wants Colt to do. If that envelops Colt helping Cleveland win a SuperBowl in his glory, I'm all for that. All I know is that I want Colt to succeed here, I really do. I'm not sacking the kid yet. I know the grass is always greener on the other side but it's not, it's the same grass. Let's trust that Colt's stacking the hay in the barn and learning and growing with each game. Let's trust our Offensive Superstar Joe Thomas in his endorsement of Colt. Let's listen to the guys around in that offensive huddle, they want to follow Colt. McCoy isn't the locker room arm wrestling champion. He isn't the 6'6" statuesque of a man that appears Zues like from afar. Colts an "everyman" with an iron will and determination. What history would tell us is, "Don't count out the underdog." Let's give Colt a little more time.
Now having said that, I really like Reggie Griffen III. I was wondering- would he be worth a first round pick to use like a Josh Cribbs? Now we got Josh as an undrafted rookie and found a diamond in the rough that can do it all. My question is, What if RG3 is the next incantation of Josh Cribbs. The evolution of a what Cribbs has evolved into. Imagine having RG3, Cribbs, Little and Norwood split out wide with Colt from the Shotgun lined up next to Hillis. It would be like almost any play could be a gadget. The D would be so screwed up and be confused. Colt can catch, run all them out there and change the game. That would spark our offense I believe. I wish I was coach. I'd run that and call audible and put Cribbs back in I formation with Hillis at TE and Colt at WR and RG3 at QB. Crazy to think about.
Look, I really like Colt McCoy. The young man is a stand up guy. I've loved every single thing about the guy. From holding his virginity to deciding against drinking and swearing. He's not perfect but no one man is. My faith tells me God will bless Colt in whatever he wants Colt to do. If that envelops Colt helping Cleveland win a SuperBowl in his glory, I'm all for that. All I know is that I want Colt to succeed here, I really do. I'm not sacking the kid yet. I know the grass is always greener on the other side but it's not, it's the same grass. Let's trust that Colt's stacking the hay in the barn and learning and growing with each game. Let's trust our Offensive Superstar Joe Thomas in his endorsement of Colt. Let's listen to the guys around in that offensive huddle, they want to follow Colt. McCoy isn't the locker room arm wrestling champion. He isn't the 6'6" statuesque of a man that appears Zues like from afar. Colts an "everyman" with an iron will and determination. What history would tell us is, "Don't count out the underdog." Let's give Colt a little more time.
Now having said that, I really like Reggie Griffen III. I was wondering- would he be worth a first round pick to use like a Josh Cribbs? Now we got Josh as an undrafted rookie and found a diamond in the rough that can do it all. My question is, What if RG3 is the next incantation of Josh Cribbs. The evolution of a what Cribbs has evolved into. Imagine having RG3, Cribbs, Little and Norwood split out wide with Colt from the Shotgun lined up next to Hillis. It would be like almost any play could be a gadget. The D would be so screwed up and be confused. Colt can catch, run all them out there and change the game. That would spark our offense I believe. I wish I was coach. I'd run that and call audible and put Cribbs back in I formation with Hillis at TE and Colt at WR and RG3 at QB. Crazy to think about.
Who is reggie griffin?
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The only spot I would focus on improving on the O line is RT. I certainly wouldn't waste a early pick on it though or dump big money into the lap of a free agent. I feel like if steiny comes back we are fine from center left ... and with improved play from QB (whoever that may be) and the skill positions the line will develop just fine (much like it did in 2007)
As far as what to do on offense .... First thing I would do is go out and sign a legit number 1 WR. I don't waste a pick on WR for 2 reasons A. It is just to big of a hole right now and B. we need immediate help not help 2-3 years down the road when that WR develops. Realisitcally the biggest name out there that I can see us bringing in is Desean Jackson. I don't care about the attitude the kid can flat out play when he wants too. Other names available could be guys such as Colston, Steve Johnson, and Dwayne Bowe. Any of them would be fine I guess as they are all legit talents. I wouldn't hate somebody like a Mario Manningham coming in also if we were to go after 2 WRs.
QB wise ... I am torn there is a part of me that wants to wait on Colt for another year or 2 to see how he develops. If we don't let Colt run the offense another year with improved weapons to work with I do not want to waste a pick on a QB ... I rather bring in Matt Flynn. Basically I am all for either Colt or Flynn at this point. Either way though we need some weapons for them.
RB I say resign Hillis if the deal is right and makes sense. I wouldn't use him as a feature back ... I would use him in short yardage downs and to catch the ball out of the backfield. I would target a fast, ellusive play making running back in round 3 to compliment him. Someone like Lamichael James.
With our picks ... idealy if we were able to fill our WR holes via FA I would love for us to draft DE-LB-CB with out first 3 picks. We are so much closer to having an elite defense it appears I say lets go for it.
I also think we are going to need to add another LB via free agency. If we can't get a backer via FA we can go with a DE and draft 2 backers instead. We def need to draft a CB with one of those 3 picks. Drafting a CB could essentially fill 2 holes as we could possibly move Sheldon Brown to FS.
Also ... I am not a Marecic fan, but I will say this ... Vickers was shit too his rookie year so lets see if he is able to bulk up and learn to block a little better.
The only spot I would focus on improving on the O line is RT. I certainly wouldn't waste a early pick on it though or dump big money into the lap of a free agent. I feel like if steiny comes back we are fine from center left ... and with improved play from QB (whoever that may be) and the skill positions the line will develop just fine (much like it did in 2007)
As far as what to do on offense .... First thing I would do is go out and sign a legit number 1 WR. I don't waste a pick on WR for 2 reasons A. It is just to big of a hole right now and B. we need immediate help not help 2-3 years down the road when that WR develops. Realisitcally the biggest name out there that I can see us bringing in is Desean Jackson. I don't care about the attitude the kid can flat out play when he wants too. Other names available could be guys such as Colston, Steve Johnson, and Dwayne Bowe. Any of them would be fine I guess as they are all legit talents. I wouldn't hate somebody like a Mario Manningham coming in also if we were to go after 2 WRs.
QB wise ... I am torn there is a part of me that wants to wait on Colt for another year or 2 to see how he develops. If we don't let Colt run the offense another year with improved weapons to work with I do not want to waste a pick on a QB ... I rather bring in Matt Flynn. Basically I am all for either Colt or Flynn at this point. Either way though we need some weapons for them.
RB I say resign Hillis if the deal is right and makes sense. I wouldn't use him as a feature back ... I would use him in short yardage downs and to catch the ball out of the backfield. I would target a fast, ellusive play making running back in round 3 to compliment him. Someone like Lamichael James.
With our picks ... idealy if we were able to fill our WR holes via FA I would love for us to draft DE-LB-CB with out first 3 picks. We are so much closer to having an elite defense it appears I say lets go for it.
I also think we are going to need to add another LB via free agency. If we can't get a backer via FA we can go with a DE and draft 2 backers instead. We def need to draft a CB with one of those 3 picks. Drafting a CB could essentially fill 2 holes as we could possibly move Sheldon Brown to FS.
Also ... I am not a Marecic fan, but I will say this ... Vickers was shit too his rookie year so lets see if he is able to bulk up and learn to block a little better.
I'd say we go WR, OLB, RT by best available at each pick in whatever order. Pick up a DE and another WR in free agency maybe.
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Look, I really like Colt McCoy. The young man is a stand up guy. I've loved every single thing about the guy. From holding his virginity to deciding against drinking and swearing. He's not perfect but no one man is. My faith tells me God will bless Colt in whatever he wants Colt to do. If that envelops Colt helping Cleveland win a SuperBowl in his glory, I'm all for that. All I know is that I want Colt to succeed here, I really do. I'm not sacking the kid yet. I know the grass is always greener on the other side but it's not, it's the same grass. Let's trust that Colt's stacking the hay in the barn and learning and growing with each game. Let's trust our Offensive Superstar Joe Thomas in his endorsement of Colt. Let's listen to the guys around in that offensive huddle, they want to follow Colt. McCoy isn't the locker room arm wrestling champion. He isn't the 6'6" statuesque of a man that appears Zues like from afar. Colts an "everyman" with an iron will and determination. What history would tell us is, "Don't count out the underdog." Let's give Colt a little more time.
Now having said that, I really like Reggie Griffen III. I was wondering- would he be worth a first round pick to use like a Josh Cribbs? Now we got Josh as an undrafted rookie and found a diamond in the rough that can do it all. My question is, What if RG3 is the next incantation of Josh Cribbs. The evolution of a what Cribbs has evolved into. Imagine having RG3, Cribbs, Little and Norwood split out wide with Colt from the Shotgun lined up next to Hillis. It would be like almost any play could be a gadget. The D would be so screwed up and be confused. Colt can catch, run all them out there and change the game. That would spark our offense I believe. I wish I was coach. I'd run that and call audible and put Cribbs back in I formation with Hillis at TE and Colt at WR and RG3 at QB. Crazy to think about.
Who is reggie griffin?
Who is reggie griffin?
I'm sorry, I meant Robert Griffen III. I don't know why I did that...
Also, remember Marcus Benard should be okay from his motorcycle accident and if we get him back next year "healthy", he could prove to be the DE opposite Sheard that we've needed. That would take out the need to draft a DE early and free up a pick. Possibly pick up an experienced FA DE.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
For offense I'd say take a RG3 and sign DeSean Jackson to a 3 year deal. Resign Hillis and get us a good OT in the Draft or FA and that should make our offense more exciting to watch. It would be more on the Head Coach to find intricate ways to get these guys the ball.
WR- GRIFFEN
WR- CRIBBS
TE- CAMERON
LT- THOMAS
Lg- STIEN/PINKSTON
C - MACK
RG- LAVAMAN(GOOD FA)
RT- HIGH DRAFT PICK(PASHOS)
TE- MOORE/WATSON
WR- LITTLE
WR- JACKSON
WR- NORWOOD/MOMASS
QB- McCOY
HB- HILLIS/HARDESTY/JACKSON
FB- WILLIAMS/MARECIC
That's 23 guys that I'd think would work well together to make a productive offense.
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There is no way in hell we should waste a top 10 pick on RGIII if the intention is to try and make him a WR. That is the easiest way to stay bad for a few more years. And trusting Benard to be our starting DE would also be an epic fail. He is a back up at best.
I we can sign Desean Jackson we don't need to draft a WR early. If we can also resign Hillis we can avoid taking a RB with a first/second rounder also and try and grab a complimentry game breaker type in the third round ....
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Who is reggie griffin?
I'm sorry, I meant Robert Griffen III. I don't know why I did that...
Also, remember Marcus Benard should be okay from his motorcycle accident and if we get him back next year "healthy", he could prove to be the DE opposite Sheard that we've needed. That would take out the need to draft a DE early and free up a pick. Possibly pick up an experienced FA DE.
I'm sorry, I meant Robert Griffen III. I don't know why I did that...
Also, remember Marcus Benard should be okay from his motorcycle accident and if we get him back next year "healthy", he could prove to be the DE opposite Sheard that we've needed. That would take out the need to draft a DE early and free up a pick. Possibly pick up an experienced FA DE.
Griffin will only be taken as a qb, and may well be gone when the Browns pick, given the success of Cam Newton.
I'm not sold on Desean Jackson either, with his attitude problems and he's going to demand Franchise player money on top of it. If the Browns can somehow land Justin Blackmon, it's a no brainer in my book. With the rookie wage scale, way cheaper too than signing a top $$$ FA @ the position.
Assuming no trade up or down the Atlanta pick becomes either the best LB or CB on the board.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Poetic G,
you REALLY have a fetish for Vickers. I don't know how many times you have mentioned his name int he last week, but I bet it is 50 or more.
Vickers is NOT a playmaker or a major force in the NFL. Get over it already.
The Browns need to get rid of the ENTIRE team save maybe 4 -5 players.
AAAAAAAaaactually
lawrence vickers is a great fullback. one of the most underrated players in the league...except in houston where they are loving him to death
hes helped them to be the 2nd highest rushing team in the league and blocked for 2 of the better complimentary back in the league in arian foster and ben tate
i cant believe you dont think hes any good when houston was willing to make him the highest paid fullback in the league.....ur an idiot
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browns need WRs and offensive linemen
the defense is pretty good considering the injuries and the age of all the players
justin blackmon needs to be a brown next season
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We have had about 15 threads on what would you do if you were the GM for the Browns in 2012..
Its simple, not rocket science..
Cut- ALL QBS,ALL RBS,
you want a draft that would have everyone talking how about the Browns
Take RG3 with the first, trade back up to take Richerson. Take best Defensive player in the second. L.James from the Ducks in the third.
Sign Manningham and Bowe...
Browns in playoffs in one yr..SIMPLE
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Manningham is not signing here. Bowe is not signing here. Jackson is not signing here. Richardson is not entering the draft.
Blackmon will probably go 3 to the Rams.. no chance of jumping ahead of them, and the draft pick compensation isn't worth it.
Jeffrey will be a great pro. But the Browns might take Coples from NC.
At the second spot the Browns will probably upgrade the R side of the OL. Then in the second round, time for a LB - or Minnifield if he falls.
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great question, interesting thread.
1. Address coaching. Probably fire and replace our ST coordinator. Shurmur gets demoted to OC. He can be "competent" from there. At the very least, have some frank conversations re: job perfomance. "It isn't good enough." Perhaps Todd Haley as HC, maybe Perry Fewell (NYG D coord), plenty of other options. (not the Jax guy)
2. Draft- Currently at #5, probably 4 spot. Listen to, offer picks. Try to gain an additional #1 for 2013 if possible. Keep adding picks a la New England.
#1 priority: Blackmon.
Otherwise, MAYBE (probably) RGIII. Address O-line, LB, CB with likely a BPA approach (the D could use depth...offense needs HELP)
3. Sign a WR in Free Agency. Make Colston, Bowe, or Jackson an offer they can't refuse (incentive/playoff laden).
4. stop sucking.
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Stevie Johnson, and maybe even Manningham would be acceptable as well.
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We have had about 15 threads on what would you do if you were the GM for the Browns in 2012..
Its simple, not rocket science..
Cut- ALL QBS,ALL RBS,
you want a draft that would have everyone talking how about the Browns
Take RG3 with the first, trade back up to take Richerson. Take best Defensive player in the second. L.James from the Ducks in the third.
Sign Manningham and Bowe...
Browns in playoffs in one yr..SIMPLE
We have had about 15 threads on what would you do if you were the GM for the Browns in 2012..
Its simple, not rocket science..
Cut- ALL QBS,ALL RBS,
you want a draft that would have everyone talking how about the Browns
Take RG3 with the first, trade back up to take Richerson. Take best Defensive player in the second. L.James from the Ducks in the third.
Sign Manningham and Bowe...
Browns in playoffs in one yr..SIMPLE
This isn' t Madden.
How many times does this have to be said?
Cutting players before their contracts creates wasted money. It's no doubt that Colt isn't the guy, but he can be a serviceable backup. His trade value is pretty much shite after this season, leave him on the roster until his contract plays out. We're going to need more than one QB, why cut Colt and/or Seneca only to spend even more money signing a backup? Colt is essentially making backup money next season, so there's not even a need for a contract restructuring.
Hillis won't be back. Hardesty is due to make $490,000 next season, and just over $500,000 the year after before becoming a free agent.
Trading back up to grab Richardson would involve either the 2012 second or third round pick anyway, along with a 2013 pick as well. If it involves the second round pick, we would have to spend our third round pick on a defensive player, following in your draft order of importance. If it involves the third round pick, taking James in the second is too much of a reach according to nearly all mock drafts, and reaching for a third round RB when we traded up to get an RB in the first would be a waste of two picks, not just one.
Keeping Hardesty as a backup seems the most likely scenario, in that case.
As for Manningham and Bowe...neither will end up here, so that's really moot. Neither receiver is going to want to come to a team with no QB, a (possibly, hopefully) new OC, a losing culture, and an offense that generates absolutely no passing yardage.
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you guys that like to pick apart other's ideas.
make some suggestions yourself.
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As for Manningham and Bowe...neither will end up here, so that's really moot. Neither receiver is going to want to come to a team with no QB, a (possibly, hopefully) new OC, a losing culture, and an offense that generates absolutely no passing yardage.
SO we can still get Stevie Johnson.
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For those insisting on Blackmon
How many of you thought Dez Bryant was the answer? Micheal Crabtree can't miss right?
For those of you that "KNOW" that drafting offense will fix the problem...let's look at Arizona
They went out and got Kolb (how many here thought we should give up our no.1 for Kolb?) they've got Fitzgerald,Heap,Beanie,Peterson,some playmakers there right?
A coach that took them to a superbowl right? How's it working out for them?
Our defense is very close to being "elite" ...finish the job
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