Interesting Qb Discussion
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Ben is the AFC North's only franchise QB at present. Dalton has a chance of developing into one. Flacco has no chance.
At this point in their careers Dalton is the far superior player....or at least the more productive QB. Whether or not he would continue on an arc that would make him as good as BR has turned out to be remains to be seen.
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Rookie numbers for BR:
Played 14 games, started 13. 196 completions in 295 attempts for a 66.4 completion pct.
17 TD passes 5.8% TD pct.
11 Ints. 3.7 int. pct.
8.9 ypa
13.4 ypc
187.2 ypg
98.1 rating
30 sacks
Rookie numbers for Dalton:
Played 15 games, started 14. 278 completions in 472 attempts for a 58.9 completion pct.
20 TD passes 4.2% TD
13 ints. 2.8% int.
6.7 ypa
11.4 ypc
211.1 ypg
81.8 rating
23 sacks
maybe it is closer than I thought.
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Something Ben and dalton both had that colt doesn't......some talented WRs
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy_ha_1.html
What does everyone think of this? Ive been arguing these exact same points with all my typical, unrealistic browns buddies but they are all for getting rid of colt and drafting RG3 and its makes me sick to my stomach how dumb people are. Getting rid of people every year and starting fresh hasnt worked for how long now?
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy_ha_1.html
What does everyone think of this? Ive been arguing these exact same points with all my typical, unrealistic browns buddies but they are all for getting rid of colt and drafting RG3 and its makes me sick to my stomach how dumb people are. Getting rid of people every year and starting fresh hasnt worked for how long now?
We need to remember that Colt is still basically a rookie. Sure, he had the "Camp Colts", but all he had was a playbook (of a new system) & HIS interpretation of all the new stuff. He has shown me guts, determination, leadership, & a great attitude. Now let's surround him with some playmakers, a full & functional off season, THEN see what he shows. What I find ridiculous is that many naysayers are pushing for that big, physical, strong armed QB for the AFC North yet they have suggested Barkley (Colt's height, 8 lbs heavier, not as mobile), & RG3 (Colt's height, also 8 lbs heavier, more mobile, inaccurate under heavy pressure, & a college underclassman who has yet to have consecutive dominant COLLEGE seasons!). Sorry folks, I fail to see the logic in that type change. I want to see what Colt does with some tools & I trust Heckert & Co to provide those.
Mike
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How many times have I said it: Use the Steelers model when they got BR. What did they do? They built up the nastiest defense in the league, they built up a great running game with really good receivers.
Finally, ultimately, they brought in a QB as the final piece. In that QBs rookie season they went 15-1, but that rookie played only a minor part in that record. He did fine for a rookie, but he was by no means the difference.
If the Browns used their first 3 picks in the draft to take a linebacker, another DB, and a DE it would not break my heart. Seriously.
I know they need offensive playmakers....a #1 receiver and a scatback, but if they went for defense that is a strategy that wouldn't upset me. In a year or 2 the Browns could find their version of BR.
Ben Rothlisberger is a unique QB. They dont make them like him very often, but you have the right idea. Ideally, a team would spend their money on building a reliable core of defensive players then add playmakers around that. This idea going around that linemen are a dime a dozen and are fat, unintelligent, useless athletes is Retarded. I hate how so many people here are quick to throw around the term "Franchise QB" and acknowledge how the trend at the QB position is moving toward a mobile QB who is a dual threat with both his ability to scramble and throw, but fail to make the correlation between that and how the average NFL lineman's duties have changed. A lineman like DeMarcus Ware, Suh, Thomas, etc. can make all the difference in the way a QB is perceived and in the success he has, even if he is on D, because a defensive game can affect the personnel and packages that an offense is going to run in their offensive series'.
Ideally, a team would spend their money on building a reliable core of defensive players then add playmakers around that. This idea going around that linemen are a dime a dozen and are fat, unintelligent, useless athletes is Retarded.
So you pay no attention to lineman in your build-a-team scenario and then condemn those that slight linemen?
You have to build a serviceable O-line. Spend top picks when the talent-level of the prospect demands you do (ala Joe Thomas or PTG's Pouncey pick) and then fill with mid/ low round prospects with promise. It is these linemen that are "dime a dozen" in NFL pay terms... and many of them become very serviceable, long-term assets.
Nothing unique to linemen about the above approach... same case could be made for every position.
Something Ben and dalton both had that colt doesn't......some talented WRs
Colt has some WR talent, they just have more... but it's not like Cinci and PTG are stocked with wide-outs that were blue-chippers coming out of college. They both scouted well and drafted well...
He has shown me guts, determination, leadership, & a great attitude. What I find ridiculous is that many naysayers are pushing for that big, physical, strong armed QB for the AFC North...
While I agree with your Colt assessment, you have to keep looking...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Ideally, a team would spend their money on building a reliable core of defensive players then add playmakers around that. This idea going around that linemen are a dime a dozen and are fat, unintelligent, useless athletes is Retarded.
So you pay no attention to lineman in your build-a-team scenario and then condemn those that slight linemen?
You have to build a serviceable O-line. Spend top picks when the talent-level of the prospect demands you do (ala Joe Thomas or PTG's Pouncey pick) and then fill with mid/ low round prospects with promise. It is these linemen that are "dime a dozen" in NFL pay terms... and many of them become very serviceable, long-term assets.
Nothing unique to linemen about the above approach... same case could be made for every position.
Something Ben and dalton both had that colt doesn't......some talented WRs
Colt has some WR talent, they just have more... but it's not like Cinci and PTG are stocked with wide-outs that were blue-chippers coming out of college. They both scouted well and drafted well...
He has shown me guts, determination, leadership, & a great attitude. What I find ridiculous is that many naysayers are pushing for that big, physical, strong armed QB for the AFC North...
While I agree with your Colt assessment, you have to keep looking...
Colt has some WR talent, they just have more... but it's not like Cinci and PTG are stocked with wide-outs that were blue-chippers coming out of college. They both scouted well and drafted well...
You don't need a ton of talent...just a few quality Players
Gresham and green are certified studs in cincy
Wallace and Heath miller are great not to mention Hines ward who they've had for years and Antonio brown who was a steal
Of course you have to hit on ur picks but you also have to show them support even if they struggle early on. If a guy gets replaced early then he really can't develop properly
Pitt brings their guys along slowly...they always have and it helps them learn the offense
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Colt has some WR talent, they just have more... but it's not like Cinci and PTG are stocked with wide-outs that were blue-chippers coming out of college. They both scouted well and drafted well...
You don't need a ton of talent...just a few quality Players
Gresham and green are certified studs in cincy
Wallace and Heath miller are great not to mention Hines ward who they've had for years and Antonio brown who was a steal
Of course you have to hit on ur picks but you also have to show them support even if they struggle early on. If a guy gets replaced early then he really can't develop properly
Pitt brings their guys along slowly...they always have and it helps them learn the offense
Of course you have to hit on ur picks but you also have to show them support even if they struggle early on.
That depends on how they struggle. Some things (technique, strength, knowledge...) are addressable with time and experience; some things (speed, quickness, balance...) are innate and are not teachable.
How long do we "develop" Robiske?
The other side of that "show-them-support" coin, namely moving on after it's clear you've made a mistake, is just as important.
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Ideally, a team would spend their money on building a reliable core of defensive players then add playmakers around that. This idea going around that linemen are a dime a dozen and are fat, unintelligent, useless athletes is Retarded.
So you pay no attention to lineman in your build-a-team scenario and then condemn those that slight linemen?
You have to build a serviceable O-line. Spend top picks when the talent-level of the prospect demands you do (ala Joe Thomas or PTG's Pouncey pick) and then fill with mid/ low round prospects with promise. It is these linemen that are "dime a dozen" in NFL pay terms... and many of them become very serviceable, long-term assets.
Nothing unique to linemen about the above approach... same case could be made for every position.
Something Ben and dalton both had that colt doesn't......some talented WRs
Colt has some WR talent, they just have more... but it's not like Cinci and PTG are stocked with wide-outs that were blue-chippers coming out of college. They both scouted well and drafted well...
He has shown me guts, determination, leadership, & a great attitude. What I find ridiculous is that many naysayers are pushing for that big, physical, strong armed QB for the AFC North...
While I agree with your Colt assessment, you have to keep looking...
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Of course you have to hit on ur picks but you also have to show them support even if they struggle early on.
That depends on how they struggle. Some things (technique, strength, knowledge...) are addressable with time and experience; some things (speed, quickness, balance...) are innate and are not teachable.
How long do we "develop" Robiske?
The other side of that "show-them-support" coin, namely moving on after it's clear you've made a mistake, is just as important.
That depends on how they struggle. Some things (technique, strength, knowledge...) are addressable with time and experience; some things (speed, quickness, balance...) are innate and are not teachable.
How long do we "develop" Robiske?
The other side of that "show-them-support" coin, namely moving on after it's clear you've made a mistake, is just as important.
Admitting you made a mistake is one of the hardest things for a coach to do.
Giving a player time is one of the hardest things a browns fan can do
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