How Can We Improve Run-D?
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We seem pretty stout up the middle. So which positions need an upgrade through FA or draft to repair the holes in our run defense?
Coach Holmgren: "I made the decision to keep Eric [Mangini] and every day I know I did the right thing." -
Definitely DE opposite Sheard and LB help along with a good safety that can allow Ward to help more in run support. We get consistently get beat around the edge on runs, and all those positions need an upgrade.
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Definitely DE opposite Sheard and LB help along with a good safety that can allow Ward to help more in run support. We get consistently get beat around the edge on runs, and all those positions need an upgrade.
Definitely DE opposite Sheard and LB help along with a good safety that can allow Ward to help more in run support. We get consistently get beat around the edge on runs, and all those positions need an upgrade.
Thanks jrb. That's along the lines I was thinking. Hopefully they'll take care of that this off-season and just add some depth on D. We're a couple injuries from being a bottom-tier defense, even with our current rank at 10 overall.
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If we just get one or two solid players at those positions we will see our run defense improve to around 15th at least... but if that happens we will more than likely see our pass defense drop a few spots. OLB is the priority, FS and DE being the secondary needs.
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An OLB or two and TJ Ward healthy all year
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If my memory serves me correctly, most of the nasty runs were to our d's left-hand-side. Not sure who the DE and OLB are on that side but we lost the corner containment often and Jackson would make most oif the tackles after a 5 to 7 yeard gain.
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We seem pretty stout up the middle. So which positions need an upgrade through FA or draft to repair the holes in our run defense?
We seem pretty stout up the middle. So which positions need an upgrade through FA or draft to repair the holes in our run defense?
I disagree about being stout up the middle...if you are talking about DQ Jackson. Sure, he leads the team in tackles....any MLB should, but those tackles are usually being made 5 yards further upfield than they should because he is so often out of position and so often easilly blocked out of a play.
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We seem pretty stout up the middle. So which positions need an upgrade through FA or draft to repair the holes in our run defense?
I disagree about being stout up the middle...if you are talking about DQ Jackson. Sure, he leads the team in tackles....any MLB should, but those tackles are usually being made 5 yards further upfield than they should because he is so often out of position and so often easilly blocked out of a play.
I disagree about being stout up the middle...if you are talking about DQ Jackson. Sure, he leads the team in tackles....any MLB should, but those tackles are usually being made 5 yards further upfield than they should because he is so often out of position and so often easilly blocked out of a play.
DQ is a better option than anything we have, and anything we could get in FA. MLB is not a pressing need, neither is DT. OLB's, and a RDE are where we are lacking.
We have nobody to set the edge at all.
Hell, we could draft a tweener for DE just to run straight up field and it would be a better situation than what we have now. By making that LT drop back 7 yards, it would force any outside runs to the left to be cut back inside towards our only defensive "playmakers".
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I disagree about being stout up the middle...if you are talking about DQ Jackson. Sure, he leads the team in tackles....any MLB should, but those tackles are usually being made 5 yards further upfield than they should because he is so often out of position and so often easilly blocked out of a play.
DQ is a better option than anything we have, and anything we could get in FA. MLB is not a pressing need, neither is DT. OLB's, and a RDE are where we are lacking.
We have nobody to set the edge at all.
Hell, we could draft a tweener for DE just to run straight up field and it would be a better situation than what we have now. By making that LT drop back 7 yards, it would force any outside runs to the left to be cut back inside towards our only defensive "playmakers".
DQ is a better option than anything we have, and anything we could get in FA. MLB is not a pressing need, neither is DT. OLB's, and a RDE are where we are lacking.
We have nobody to set the edge at all.
Hell, we could draft a tweener for DE just to run straight up field and it would be a better situation than what we have now. By making that LT drop back 7 yards, it would force any outside runs to the left to be cut back inside towards our only defensive "playmakers".
I will agree with that to a point....but the Browns are like 30th/31st in run defense with DQ. I think they were actually better in that category without him. But yes, OLBs is more of a pressing need.
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The biggest reason teams run all over us is because they get to the edge. We need badass cornerbacks who can beat the blocks on the outside, and more importantly, we need fast OLBs that won't get beat to the edge.
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DQ is a better option than anything we have, and anything we could get in FA. MLB is not a pressing need, neither is DT. OLB's, and a RDE are where we are lacking.
We have nobody to set the edge at all.
Hell, we could draft a tweener for DE just to run straight up field and it would be a better situation than what we have now. By making that LT drop back 7 yards, it would force any outside runs to the left to be cut back inside towards our only defensive "playmakers".
I will agree with that to a point....but the Browns are like 30th/31st in run defense with DQ. I think they were actually better in that category without him. But yes, OLBs is more of a pressing need.
I will agree with that to a point....but the Browns are like 30th/31st in run defense with DQ. I think they were actually better in that category without him. But yes, OLBs is more of a pressing need.
The Browns are 30th in run defense because the defense as a whole, not just DQ. When our LDE is getting demolished at the point of attack and getting pushed to the next level, it gives the runningback a larger lane and more time to choose which way to make his break.
The OLB's failing to set the edge and/or contain gives the runningback an entire empty backfield to work with and run laterally instead of having to cut the play back into the inside.
The defense fights their battles on their side of the ball; until they can move the LOS back to the OL's heels, our run defense will continue to struggle.
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I will agree with that to a point....but the Browns are like 30th/31st in run defense with DQ. I think they were actually better in that category without him. But yes, OLBs is more of a pressing need.
The Browns are 30th in run defense because the defense as a whole, not just DQ. When our LDE is getting demolished at the point of attack and getting pushed to the next level, it gives the runningback a larger lane and more time to choose which way to make his break.
The OLB's failing to set the edge and/or contain gives the runningback an entire empty backfield to work with and run laterally instead of having to cut the play back into the inside.
The defense fights their battles on their side of the ball; until they can move the LOS back to the OL's heels, our run defense will continue to struggle.
The Browns are 30th in run defense because the defense as a whole, not just DQ. When our LDE is getting demolished at the point of attack and getting pushed to the next level, it gives the runningback a larger lane and more time to choose which way to make his break.
The OLB's failing to set the edge and/or contain gives the runningback an entire empty backfield to work with and run laterally instead of having to cut the play back into the inside.
The defense fights their battles on their side of the ball; until they can move the LOS back to the OL's heels, our run defense will continue to struggle.
I agree with all that....but I also add that DQ is seemingly always on his heels, way too often out of position, way to often getting run over. I am telling you what I see, and nothing I see out of DQ is going to make me forget Ray Lewis or Dick Butkus or Jack Lamber....or even Eddie Johnson...or Pepper Johnson.
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3-4?
In the first half of 2010 the defense yielded only 106 YPG rushing... then Fujita went down against the Jets and with him the rush D, but they still finished averaging 129. It's still not too late... Hell, Ryan might even be available after Dallas blows it tomorrow night against NYG... Jerry's has to blame someone and you know it won't be his fair-haired HC.
... or maybe my HS's 4-4-3? ... or George Allen's 5-2-4?
But, if you insist on the 4-3, then I agree with:
- those above saying that DQJ's not the guy for the middle. He's great slashing laterally where his speed counts, but he's vulnerable when teams run between the tackles; and
- the DE need... should be a couple worthy ones around for that 22-ish pick we have.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
3-4?
In the first half of 2010 the defense yielded only 106 YPG rushing... then Fujita went down against the Jets and with him the rush D, but they still finished averaging 129. It's still not too late... Hell, Ryan might even be available after Dallas blows it tomorrow night against NYG... Jerry's has to blame someone and you know it won't be his fair-haired HC.
... or maybe my HS's 4-4-3? ... or George Allen's 5-2-4?
But, if you insist on the 4-3, then I agree with:
- those above saying that DQJ's not the guy for the middle. He's great slashing laterally where his speed counts, but he's vulnerable when teams run between the tackles; and
- the DE need... should be a couple worthy ones around for that 22-ish pick we have.
3-4?
In the first half of 2010 the defense yielded only 106 YPG rushing... then Fujita went down against the Jets and with him the rush D, but they still finished averaging 129. It's still not too late... Hell, Ryan might even be available after Dallas blows it tomorrow night against NYG... Jerry's has to blame someone and you know it won't be his fair-haired HC.
... or maybe my HS's 4-4-3? ... or George Allen's 5-2-4?
But, if you insist on the 4-3, then I agree with:
- those above saying that DQJ's not the guy for the middle. He's great slashing laterally where his speed counts, but he's vulnerable when teams run between the tackles; and
- the DE need... should be a couple worthy ones around for that 22-ish pick we have.
We just switched to the 4-3 and the personnel has always fit the 4-3 better than 3-4.
The NFL is too pass happy a league to run the 4-4 or the 5-2.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I'd say better depth on the line. Rubin, Sheard, Taylor play an extremely high amount of snaps, keeping them fresh and having a effective rotation would go along way. If you want to pick out a single position amongst the starter's, its definitely DE.
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Our defense has several needs i see both of our olbs as ineffective and unable to hold their ground most of the time and it often causes jackson to get targeted as he shifts out of position to go left or right to help out, while dqj is not great at shedding blocks we are only as strong against the run as our weakest link and that is gocong and fujita on the outside and mitchell on the end..
Lets not forget that usama young is no tj ward either and after tj was injured our run defense instantaneously got worse..
Both fujita and gocong not only fail to set the edge they both miss simple containment tackles way to often when on rare occasion they do penetrate..
It gets old watching these 2 guys get blocked out of the play with unparalleled consistency..
We have been rebuilding since 1964, Why stop now? GO BROWNS! -
3-4?
In the first half of 2010 the defense yielded only 106 YPG rushing... then Fujita went down against the Jets and with him the rush D, but they still finished averaging 129. It's still not too late... Hell, Ryan might even be available after Dallas blows it tomorrow night against NYG... Jerry's has to blame someone and you know it won't be his fair-haired HC.
... or maybe my HS's 4-4-3? ... or George Allen's 5-2-4?
But, if you insist on the 4-3, then I agree with:
- those above saying that DQJ's not the guy for the middle. He's great slashing laterally where his speed counts, but he's vulnerable when teams run between the tackles; and
- the DE need... should be a couple worthy ones around for that 22-ish pick we have.
We just switched to the 4-3 and the personnel has always fit the 4-3 better than 3-4.
The NFL is too pass happy a league to run the 4-4 or the 5-2.
We just switched to the 4-3 and the personnel has always fit the 4-3 better than 3-4.
The NFL is too pass happy a league to run the 4-4 or the 5-2.
Personnel-wise, I could not disagree more...
And while I was being sarcastic about the 4-4 and 5-2 D's, they would stop the run...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We just switched to the 4-3 and the personnel has always fit the 4-3 better than 3-4.
The NFL is too pass happy a league to run the 4-4 or the 5-2.
Personnel-wise, I could not disagree more...
And while I was being sarcastic about the 4-4 and 5-2 D's, they would stop the run...
Personnel-wise, I could not disagree more...
And while I was being sarcastic about the 4-4 and 5-2 D's, they would stop the run...
It's been the case for the last couple years, though, that we've been trying to fit 4-3 guys into 3-4. D'qwell is a prototypical 4-3 backer, he excelled in college in it and struggled to adapt to the 3-4. Fujita and Gocong, I believe, are shite in either setting and are a wash. Gocong is slightly undersized at 6'2 and may be a better fit in a 3-4, Fujita a 4-3 LB through and through.
Sheard is a pass rushing 4-3 DE from the same mold as Robert Mathis. He's a little heavier, but just a hair, not nearly as heavy as most 3-4 defensive ends.
Taylor is a 3-4 defensive tackle, but has the athletic ability to play tackle in a 4-3. Theoretically, he'd be a pretty decent 3-4 defensive end if he dropped maybe 15-20 pounds.
Rubin is a 4-3 DT. Slightly undersized for a 3-4 DT.
As for the defensive fronts, I know you were being facetious. I was just saying, the NFL is too pass happy to field a run stopping front.
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