All Time Championship Game Records

[The Gipper]

Now that the Giants have won another Super Bowl and the Pats have lost, I am here listing all current NFL teams records in Championship Games. This includes all championship games played in football history (NFL/AFL/AAFC). It does not include any game prior to the title game. These are the trophies hoisted after any team's final ultimate game. (In order of title games won):

Packers 10-3

Browns 8-5

Bears 7-5

Giants 7-12

Steelers 6-2

49ers 5-1

Cowboys 5-3

Redskins 5-6

Lions 4-1

Colts 4-3

Raiders 3-2

Eagles 3-3

Patriots 3-5

Rams 3-5

Oilers/Titans 2-2

Chiefs 2-1

Bills 2-4

Dolphins 2-3

Broncos 2-3

Saints 1-0

Bucs 1-0

Ravens 1-0

Jets 1-0

Cards 1-2

Chargers 1-5

Seahawks 0-1

Panthers 0-1

Falcons 0-1

Bengals 0-2

Vikings 0-4

The Jaguars and Texans have never appeared in a Championship game.

[FSG]

Interestingly - I noted how during the Super Bowl, the broadcast noted the most NFL Championship Games by Coach/QB and Otto Graham and Paul Brown were mentioned, but none of the AAFC games were counted.

The reason is that that only place that the minor league AAFC matters is in Cleveland. The NFL does not recognize any records, games or championships.

Pick your reason:

Either it's because most of the teams went under

or

They had NO DRAFT - it was a wide open market to acquire players. Thus they weren't restricted from acquiring players the way NFL teams can select one player per round

Either way. They won them, congrats to them. But beating up on teams that went defaulted and could not compete is a cheap way of considering a championship. The AAFC is no more valid than the USFL.

[The Gipper]

@fsg said:

Interestingly - I noted how during the Super Bowl, the broadcast noted the most NFL Championship Games by Coach/QB and Otto Graham and Paul Brown were mentioned, but none of the AAFC games were counted.

The reason is that that only place that the minor league AAFC matters is in Cleveland. The NFL does not recognize any records, games or championships.

Pick your reason:

Either it's because most of the teams went under

or

They had NO DRAFT - it was a wide open market to acquire players. Thus they weren't restricted from acquiring players the way NFL teams can select one player per round

Either way. They won them, congrats to them. But beating up on teams that went defaulted and could not compete is a cheap way of considering a championship. The AAFC is no more valid than the USFL.

Except, of course, you are double dumbass wrong.

The ONLY place on earth you will not find AAFC records is in the "NFL records"....and do I have to go through the entire explanation of the reason for that for another fucking ostrich like you? I am not going to take my time to do so. I don't suffer fools gladly, so I won't suffer to explain it again to your likes ad nauseum.

Needless to say, the Cleveland Browns are in the NFL...and all NFL teams histories are counted here.

Note the one loss by the 49ers. Where do you think they got that loss? The the Browns in the AAFC.

And, again, besides, as I have said, any number of times to feckless fools like you: The Browns would have won every title game they would have appeared in in the 40s. They were the far superior team and would have...indeed did, wipe the field with the likes of the Eagles and Cardinals that won NFL titles. Only perhaps the Bears of 1946 would have given them a challenge.

No, in case you don't know, it was proposed that a "Super Bowl" of Football be played between the AAFC champs and the NFL champs as early as 1947.

The NFL did not want to play because they were afraid of the Browns.

So, if those "World Series of Football" games had been played, I would have counted only the winner of those games.

But the NFL was too chicken to play those games. So, if they wanted to be chickens, so be it.

The Browns WERE the best team in football and there is not much doubt about that. The first game they played against the NFL champion...the first game of the 1950 season, was a absolute blowout for the Browns.

And, speaking of the Bears and Packers....FYI, many/most of their championships were earned against teams that are now..."defunct" (which is the term you are looking for), more so even than the Browns. As mentioned, the Browns played the 49ers in at least one of those game. You have heard of them, haven't you?

[MLD Woody]

Michigan won alot in the 00's too (1900-1909)

55-1-1 and one point

[The Gipper]

By the way, just to set you straight so that you do not need to speculate:

The "reason" the NFL didn't "count" the AAFC records, allegedly, was supposedly because the AAFC couldn't hand over every single ORIGINAL stat sheet from every AAFC game. So they proclaimed that none of the records "count".

Except however, there were available ORIGINAL stat sheets of 90% of those games. And those that they did not have the "orignals" of, they did have copies of. So not a single stat about the AAFC was lost.

And today, the Pro Football Hall of Fame recognizes those records, Elias Sports Bureau does, Pro-football-reference does. The Sporting News does. Wikipedia does. Every single source does....except one.

And the so called reason for that one not to recognize those records has all to do with vanity, humiliation, and vengeance.

Bert Bell, the NFL Commissioner, and owner of the Eagles is the one that decreed those records would not count....and of course it all stems from the fact that he knew that his Eagles teams that won NFL titles in 48 and 49, were inferior to the Browns...but he didn't want the so called "superiority" of the NFL to be challenged. When the Browns wiped the field with the Eagles in the so called "Battle of the Champions" that was the first game of the 1950 season between the Eagles and Browns...it only deepende Bell's humiliation, and his pettiness over the records issue.

(by the way, there is no way that the original stat sheets of NFL games from that same period could be produced, so clearly it was a mere ruse to exclude AAFC records)

[The Gipper]

@mld-woody said:

Michigan won alot in the 00's too (1900-1909)

55-1-1 and one point

Yes, and the titles they won in those years are counted. Just like in pro football when you had more than one league, you had more than one champion...in college it was even worse. You had various entities....polls etc. that "chose" national champions.

Of course, it really hasn't improved all that much, has it?

List of National Champions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS

By the way, some commentators state that only National Championships won since the inception of the BCS system which started in 1998 should count. Can you believe that BS?

Must be stupid Steeler fans saying that.

[The Gipper]

This was on just last week, oh, yea, by a Boston guy:

[rich4eagle]

@the-gipper said:

Now that the Giants have won another Super Bowl and the Pats have lost, I am here listing all current NFL teams records in Championship Games. This includes all championship games played in football history (NFL/AFL/AAFC). It does not include any game prior to the title game. These are the trophies hoisted after any team's final ultimate game. (In order of title games won):

Packers 10-3

Browns 8-5

Bears 7-5

Giants 7-12

Steelers 6-2

49ers 5-1

Cowboys 5-3

Redskins 5-6

Lions 4-1

Colts 4-3

Raiders 3-2

Eagles 3-3

Patriots 3-5

Rams 3-5

Oilers/Titans 2-2

Chiefs 2-1

Bills 2-4

Dolphins 2-3

Broncos 2-3

Saints 1-0

Bucs 1-0

Ravens 1-0

Jets 1-0

Cards 1-2

Chargers 1-5

Seahawks 0-1

Panthers 0-1

Falcons 0-1

Bengals 0-2

Vikings 0-4

The Jaguars and Texans have never appeared in a Championship game.

Only problem is since the Browns went from the greatest show in foolball featuring offense to some dumbass dawg pound idea,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they have never been there

[The Cysko Kid]

Oh they became the dog pound in 1965?

[The Gipper]

@the-cysko-kid said:

Oh they became the dog pound in 1965?

No, that started in the 80s with Dixon and Minniefield....and the whole concept should be retired.

[The Gipper]

Zombo said:

We rarely disagree on the legacy stuff ... but the Dawgpound stuff should not be retired, it should be enhanced! It's part of our history. Sure, those guys are gone, but it is a great legacy that they left behind. It's unique to Cleveland and the Browns. It's marketable and it's fun. When your team name is a color and your logo is a helmet ... I think it's nice to find another identity along the way, I think we should always stick with it ... it's cool.

Zombo

I don't disagree with your concept of the Browns "finding another identity", but I think that identity should be associated with the current group of players, the current team. Not the guys from 30 years ago.

To me, the Browns marketing the "Dawg Pound" is tantamount to the Rams marketing their defense as "The Fearsome Foursome" or the Vikings going with "The Purple People Eaters", or the Cowboys marketing their "Doomsday Defense" or the Broncos as "The Orange Crush" etc. etc.

Those names were associated with specific individuals on those teams (Grier, Olsen, Jones, Lundy etc.). The Dawgs were...or should have only been ....associated with Dixon and Minniefield etc.

I mean, if these guys become what we think and hope they become, why should not Jabaal Sheard, Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin have their own identity.

Say next year the Browns win a lot of close games at the last minute. You wouldn't go calling them "The Kardiac Kids" would you? No.

See my point. Give them a CURRENT identity. Not an old one.

[The Gipper]

Let me correct this blathering mess.

The Browns championships in the AAFC were not NFL games and accordingly are NOT counted as NFL championships.

Were they professional championships? Yeah, sure. So what? They were STILL, little league and NOT NFL.

Did the AAFC Browns beat some NFL champs? Sure, but then again in the old days so too did the collegel all stars occasionally beat the pro all stars. Explanations? The season was over for teh REAL pros, they already went home for the hOlidays and were not considering the Browns anything more than a scrimmage.

Nobody outside of Browns fans gives a shit about the AAFC.

The Superbowl is the modern embodiment of an NFL world championship. THe new (fake version) Cleveland Browns have never won or even been to a Superbowl. The REAL Browns (with a fake name) HAve been to and won one Superbowl.

That is the real truth.

STFU with the AAFC bullshit, It doesn't count as anything but a stupid sounding excuse.

NYAH NYAH NYAH NYAH.... I hold the home run record with my neighborhood team and I;m better than Babe Ruth.

Again, STFU with this minor league BS. If the Browns were better than the NFL teams then, it doens't matter. There is no proof of it. The pro teams laid down is all.

By your idea then, the AFL titles shouldn't count for anything....and any Browns titles prior to the Super Bowl don't count for anything. Nor do the Bears/Packers/Giants/Lions or anyone's titles count for anything.

All I am doing here in these threads is giving a full account of the history of pro football since 1920. These are the facts. They are not subject to interpretation, they are not subject to erasure.

If you don't like the facts, if you don't like the truth, if you don't like the complete picture of the way things are, too bad. Take a Terrible Towel and shove it up your cunt to use as a Tampax...because you sure come off sounding like a bitch on the rag.

Or you can jump on your Neo-Nazi Jew Baiting Holocaust denying broomstick and fly into the crater at Mount Etna.

[The Gipper]

Or you can jump on your Neo-Nazi Jew Baiting Holocaust denying broomstick and fly into the crater at Mount Etna.[/color]

I am a Christian, therefore I support Israel 100% and am a great fan of Netanyahu. I wish Oblowme had 1/1000 the dignity and courage this man has.

WHy would you make such a comment? I have never bashed Israel or Jews. Odd, odd comment. Seems I got under your skin.

I made the comment because you sounded like those idiots that wanted to deny the truth of history about The Holocaust....not that you did deny the existance of the Holocaust. It was an analogy more than an accusation...deny the existance of the holocaust...deny the existance of any history of football before there was a Super Bowl.

Look, fact-moron, I never said the 1964 NFL championship didn't count, what I said was, if it wasn't called the NFL, then it has no bearing and no relevance to the NFL.

Now, in a general conversation about pro football? Sure, minor leagues like the AFL and AAFC deserve to be mentioned.

Except, of course, the fact is those league's were not minor leagues. They were parallel leagues, not minor leagues. The truth of that was born out in the results. The Browns win the NFL title their first year in the NFL. The AFL win the Super Bowl in only its third year....and only because the Packers were so good, not because the AFL teams were so bad.

I don't have a problem with ANY of your facts, but your lack of attention to detail and hypocisy are what I address. By your position then, you agree with me the Baltimore Ravens ARE indeed the Cleveland Browns. I mean the records show this to be true. The team that was the Browns moved to Baltimore and rightly should be called the Baltimore Browns.............

No, I don't agree with that one iota. Maybe your concept of what a "TEAM" is and mine are different. You seem to believe that a team consists of whomever the owner is and whoever the players are or whatever jock straps are that they can carry with them. I don't.

A team is: A. its town B. its fan C. it history D. its name and colors E. its recognition by the league etc.

EVERYTHING that makes up the TEAM that is important stayed here in Cleveland, with its fans, with its history, with its name and colors. Who gives a flying fadoodle if Art Modell ran off somewhere with a few jock straps and a few players, half of whom he cut before he ever even got to his destination.

I mean, when Robert Irsay and Carrol Rosenbloom traded franchises in the early 70s, did the Rams franchise move to Baltimore? Did the Colts franchise move to LA? No, because who really gives a shit who owns these teams. Owners die, owners sell, owners get kicked out of the league (Kiam, Modell). Who gives a damn who writes the check.

Sorry pal, it doens't work that way. The AAFC was NOT EVER the NFL. The NFL accepting their records FURTHERMORE...... does not mean that the AAFC WAS the NFL or in any way an equivalent.

Never claimed the AAFC was the NFL. It was every bit as good as the NFL, but it was a different league.

And, correct me if I am wrong....the Cleveland Browns are a member of the NFL, thus I include the info of the history of the Cleveland Browns...and the San Francisco 49ers...whose data was also included in there....and the AFL teams as well Oilers/Titans, Chargers, Chiefs, Bills, etc. etc. etc. All there data is included as well.

If you don't want to acknowlegdge that history...then why shouldn't you be considered a Holocaust denier? Same principle, just a different subject.

The argument comparing the Steelers Superbowls to the Browns championships is idiotic. It is homer mentality.

I didn't compare...I simply counted. 1=1

The Browns pale historically in comparison to teams like THe Steelers, Cowboys, Bears, Packers, Giants, Patriots, and really don't compare well to Cinci.

Well, that is an opinion....and quite frankly, we can take a poll of the population of planet earth and it is likely that the count will be that 1 person will think your opinion is valid....and 7 Billion will think otherwise...except you might grab a few of your Steeler friends who will...how did you say it...suck your nutsack?

The Browns are a franchise RIDDLED with choking in key, important games. Red Right 88, The Drive, Bynars fumble, throwing bottles game,

(yes, they have had their share....but then so have most other franchises....how do you feel Patriots fans are feeling after choking away another Super Bowl....and no one has choked more in Championship games in history than the Giants...see the stats above)

add to that Lombardi absolutely wiping his nutsack with Paul Brown, what was it, 6 times head to head?

Now do you see why people think that you can be a complete and utter fool at times? Yea, call me a fact-moron....because I get my facts correct. Lombardi and Paul Brown met head to head 1 time...that is ONE time, in their careers. I documented this previously. Do you not read anything anyone else puts on here? Now you know why no one gives you any credence.

It is moronic to think the Browns and Paul Brown ever have done anything but stand in the shadow of guys like Lombardi, Hallas, Noll, Belichik, Landry and even Cowher and Parcells. Love the Browns as you choose. LEts just get off this bullshit of them being one of the most celebrated franchises in the NFL.

The Browns were best under Modell for sure, and he won two NFL championships as an owner of the original Browns.

The fact moron here has to correct you again: He won 1 championship as owner of the Browns. 1964. Where did this other phantom championship come from? I wish to fucking hell your fact here was correct. But, too bad, it ain't.

Time to be realistic.

the one thing you said that makes sense. Too bad you probably won't heed your own advice

[The Gipper]

@king-ghoolie-lives said:

Gips, Modell was credited with ownership, albeit dwindling in %, of the Ravens. HAte doesn't change history.

He only had 1 title as owner of the Browns, which is what I thought we were talking about. Whatever the fuck he did with the Ratbirds if irrelevent. (and at least you do acknowledge the fact that when the Ravens won their title with him as "owner", he was just being El Cid...he was a prop. Biscotti controlled that team at the point...with help from Ozzie Newsome)

Regarding Lombardi versus Brown, of course they only played one time. HOWEVER. Jim Taylor DID embarass Jim Brown. As I regall Taylor rushed for something like 150+ and Browns had a paltry 72.

In that ONE game, Taylor did outgain Brown, yes. But I don't know what JB had to be embarassed about. The Browns defense didn't come to play, and the Packers controlled the ball the entire game. It was like 40 something to 17. When the Browns got behind so far I am sure they tried to go to the air to attempt to catch up, thus minimizing their ground game with JB. That happens in every game, today included. I suspect that if the score was like 28-27 Jim Browns role to play in that game would have been bigger.

This REALLY was the beginning of Browns fans clamoring for a better OL.

The truth was, the Browns had the better OL, but the Packers had better skilled players. Their offense rested their defense and shagged ours out.

I don't even know if the Browns had a better O Line. As good as the Browns line was I don't think they matched up to Ringo, Gregg, Kramer and Thurston, Do you?

Regarding the Patriots choking? Ah dude, they went to the SB a 7th time. They are 3 - 4, right now. But Belichik isn't retiring, he hasn't been to his last SB with the Pats; Guaranteed he will be in the hunt more times.

Comparing that to the performance of the Browns in the modern era is silly.

Why? If you look at Red Right 88 or The Drive or the Fumble, how are those failures any different than what happened to the Pats in their last 2 Super Bowls? They aren't. They were both epic failures.

Now certainly, you can say that the Pats also had their success with 3 SB titles where the Browns had no SB wins. Sure, OK, who can deny that. That isn't this specific point. The Pats still had these crushing failures.

Here, lookie close, in the LErner verses Modell catfight, Modell is bitchslapping the boy wonder.

As far as "team concept goes? The Browns, the true Browns, are in Baltimore.

Well, I, (and the rest of the world) will just have to disagree with you.

Just like the true Rams are in St Louis, the true Cardinals in Phoenix and the true Colts are in Indy.

HAd the NFL done the right thing and called the team the Baltimore Browns, the Browns would have won a SB, and still would have a commanding head-to-head winning advantage over the Steelers. The rivalry would still be alive.

Lerner should NEVER have been allowed to rape the Browns tradition to pad his own pocketbook. He should NEVER have been given a free ride in keeping the Browns name. HAd he been forced to come up with a new name for his team, he would never have sold out the house with this shit product.

He should have been forced to rename his franchise, and build a NEW fan loyalty all his own.

Sorry man, call them whaever you want, but the truth is, this is the fake Browns, Revision 2.0.

I am certainly not going to defend Lerner's record....but, if you believe these are the fake Browns, then that must make you a fake Browns fan.

I suggest if you feel the way you do, then disavow any association with this fake team, including showing your face here....and take your time and energies to the Ravens boards.

If you think they are the real team then just STFU here and go over there to niggle.