Colt Mcfrye
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man can you ever look back and read your own posts?
let's see cam newton and the panthers when they play the nfc east. WHO? WHAT?
OR HOW ABOUT the FLIPPIN AFC NORTH????
makin a lot of money that weekend......johnnie.
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cincy didnt change anything with their personnel except ocho palmer and TO. cuz those guys were garbage.
I didn't say they did change more w/ their offensive personal than those 3 guys. Those were the starting QB and two starting WRs (bringing in Green is also a change). So they went from a Palmer, Ocho, and TO as their starting QB and WRs to Dalton, Green, and Simpson as their starting QB and WRs. That's a significant change on O though. Then there is the whole new offense (which is basically the same O CLE is implementing). Not sure I'd call all three of those guys garbage, and had Palmer not decided to force his way out of Cincy we wouldn't be talking about Dalton and Cincy in the same statements.
i don't think colt is. why? cause he had the shittiest offense in the league to work with! if colt would've come into the bengals offense, would he of looked as bad? hell if he was on the colts even, do you really think he would've been just as bad? put colt on ANY TEAM other than the browns and I think he does much much better. why? cuz the browns O suckED.
Let me be clear, I do not think Colt is garbage. I simply don't think he is going to develop into an elite NFL QB and his ceiling looks to be a solid 2nd string QB. I think Colt looks only slightly better you put him in Cincy, only because a guy like Green can make a bad pass look like a good one by simply out jumping or out muscling a guy for the ball. He likely looks just as bad on the Colts as well, or any other team. Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed.
our offense was laughable with only Greg Little, a rookie wr without playing a senior year of college football, being our passing threat? and hillis missing 10 games didnt do anything to slow colt down. having a 3rd string rb try set up the pass with the run. NONE of us have any room to judge colt off this past year. its as simple as that. colt only threw 13 tds and 12 ints. with as bad a passing attack we had, Colt didn't do bad, just not as good as the expectations were that year. we were expectin 12-4 and the playoffs last year. no wonder ppl are saying Colts terrible. its not fair to colt at all. he will be fine. He's the next Drew Brees. Give. It. Time. Colt's head is dead set on improvement, he wants to win so bad. he has something to fight for
All of that has nothing to do with the issues I see with Colt. I am not looking at any stats. Colt could have thrown nothing but incompletes and INTs as far as I am concerned. The question would always come down to "were they the right throws?" The problem I see is Colt isn't progressing at his pre-snap or post snap reads.
What have you seen form Colt's actual play to make you believe he is the next Drew Brees? Colt being dead set on improvent and wanting to win bad are all admirable qualities. But none of those necessarily mean he can or will take his game to the level needed to be a top flight NFL QB, let a lone a middle of the pack one. Those are qualities shared with countless other players who get to the NFL and don't pan out. Heck those were all qualities of Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn.
and think about colt leading Indianapolis, or Cincy, or a team that has SOMETHING. it would be different man, so different.
I can think about that all I want. When I do, I still see the same issues that have nothing to do with the talent around Colt. Talent at WR or RB has nothing to do with the issues I outlined that I see.
I'd love to have the plucky 3rd QB pan out. But to date I have seen little to believe that is going to happen.
Let me be clear, I do not think Colt is garbage. I simply don't think he is going to develop into an elite NFL QB and his ceiling looks to be a solid 2nd string QB. I think Colt looks only slightly better you put him in Cincy, only because a guy like Green can make a bad pass look like a good one by simply out jumping or out muscling a guy for the ball. He likely looks just as bad on the Colts as well, or any other team. Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed.
What have you seen from Colt's actual play to make you believe he is the next Drew Brees? Colt being dead set on improvement and wanting to win bad are all admirable qualities. But none of those necessarily mean he can or will take his game to the level needed to be a top flight NFL QB, let a lone a middle of the pack one. Those are qualities shared with countless other players who get to the NFL and don't pan out. Heck those were all qualities of Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn.
I'd love to have the plucky 3rd QB pan out. But to date I have seen little to believe that is going to happen.
okay, you're looking at colt individually and I get that. With a qb tho the rest of the team's state does matter and impact his performance.All the things I brought up about the teams problems in 2011, if anything, impact the quarterback the most. The position of QB is a tough cookie to cut. Its almost a domino effect if a RB is hurt, or a WR can't make a catch or get open, or if the line falters. The QB is involved with EVERY player and play, and the saying "the team is as good as it's worst player" couldnt be more true here. The holes on the team impact the QB's play. You look at Colt saying he cant make quick enough reads, or get through his progressions, or make the deep out throw. Im saying that Colt cant go through his prgressions cause the D doesnt expect/respect the run game, therefore blitzing, giving Colt less time to even itch his crotch. Or if he cant make a deep out throw because of pressure? or because since the run isnt expected the coverage is tightened on our best wr and Colt is forced to make margarita out of lemons instead of lemonade out of lemons. You see my point? Its a chain reaction of bad that happens if the team is not prepared/fully utilized with it's talent due to injuries.
I'll have to agree with Browns Fan! Some of those problems were Colt's own doing. Watch some film of Aaron Rodgers or Brees- and then take a look at McCoy and try and tell me Colt has any chance of approaching that level. (Or watch Rotlisberger's bomb to Wallace, and compare that to Colt's underthrown duck to Little.)
McCoy will be 26 in September and the odds of him developing further physically are about zero. So what you see is what you're going to get in 2012. If Colt came equipped with RGIIIs arm, I can guarantee you he wouldn't have lasted until the third round.
BTW, what Browns fan is saying is exactly how coaches break down tape. Did Colt read the defense correctly, and call out the right protection? Did he recognize his hot read fast enough when he got blitzed? (get the stopwatch out to tenths of a second).
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Let me be clear, I do not think Colt is garbage. I simply don't think he is going to develop into an elite NFL QB and his ceiling looks to be a solid 2nd string QB. I think Colt looks only slightly better you put him in Cincy, only because a guy like Green can make a bad pass look like a good one by simply out jumping or out muscling a guy for the ball. He likely looks just as bad on the Colts as well, or any other team. Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed.
What have you seen from Colt's actual play to make you believe he is the next Drew Brees? Colt being dead set on improvement and wanting to win bad are all admirable qualities. But none of those necessarily mean he can or will take his game to the level needed to be a top flight NFL QB, let a lone a middle of the pack one. Those are qualities shared with countless other players who get to the NFL and don't pan out. Heck those were all qualities of Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn.
I'd love to have the plucky 3rd QB pan out. But to date I have seen little to believe that is going to happen.
okay, you're looking at colt individually and I get that. With a qb tho the rest of the team's state does matter and impact his performance.All the things I brought up about the teams problems in 2011, if anything, impact the quarterback the most. The position of QB is a tough cookie to cut. Its almost a domino effect if a RB is hurt, or a WR can't make a catch or get open, or if the line falters. The QB is involved with EVERY player and play, and the saying "the team is as good as it's worst player" couldnt be more true here. The holes on the team impact the QB's play. You look at Colt saying he cant make quick enough reads, or get through his progressions, or make the deep out throw. Im saying that Colt cant go through his prgressions cause the D doesnt expect/respect the run game, therefore blitzing, giving Colt less time to even itch his crotch. Or if he cant make a deep out throw because of pressure? or because since the run isnt expected the coverage is tightened on our best wr and Colt is forced to make margarita out of lemons instead of lemonade out of lemons. You see my point? Its a chain reaction of bad that happens if the team is not prepared/fully utilized with it's talent due to injuries.
I'll have to agree with Browns Fan! Some of those problems were Colt's own doing. Watch some film of Aaron Rodgers or Brees- and then take a look at McCoy and try and tell me Colt has any chance of approaching that level. (Or watch Rotlisberger's bomb to Wallace, and compare that to Colt's underthrown duck to Little.)
McCoy will be 26 in September and the odds of him developing further physically are about zero. So what you see is what you're going to get in 2012. If Colt came equipped with RGIIIs arm, I can guarantee you he wouldn't have lasted until the third round.
BTW, what Browns fan is saying is exactly how coaches break down tape. Did Colt read the defense correctly, and call out the right protection? Did he recognize his hot read fast enough when he got blitzed? (get the stopwatch out to tenths of a second).
I'll have to agree with Browns Fan! Some of those problems were Colt's own doing. Watch some film of Aaron Rodgers or Brees- and then take a look at McCoy and try and tell me Colt has any chance of approaching that level. (Or watch Rotlisberger's bomb to Wallace, and compare that to Colt's underthrown duck to Little.)
McCoy will be 26 in September and the odds of him developing further physically are about zero. So what you see is what you're going to get in 2012. If Colt came equipped with RGIIIs arm, I can guarantee you he wouldn't have lasted until the third round.
BTW, what Browns fan is saying is exactly how coaches break down tape. Did Colt read the defense correctly, and call out the right protection? Did he recognize his hot read fast enough when he got blitzed? (get the stopwatch out to tenths of a second).
Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
I'll have to agree with Browns Fan! Some of those problems were Colt's own doing. Watch some film of Aaron Rodgers or Brees- and then take a look at McCoy and try and tell me Colt has any chance of approaching that level. (Or watch Rotlisberger's bomb to Wallace, and compare that to Colt's underthrown duck to Little.)
McCoy will be 26 in September and the odds of him developing further physically are about zero. So what you see is what you're going to get in 2012. If Colt came equipped with RGIIIs arm, I can guarantee you he wouldn't have lasted until the third round.
BTW, what Browns fan is saying is exactly how coaches break down tape. Did Colt read the defense correctly, and call out the right protection? Did he recognize his hot read fast enough when he got blitzed? (get the stopwatch out to tenths of a second).
Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Brees 60 yard throw and on the money. Stopping making stuff up
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cincy didnt change anything with their personnel except ocho palmer and TO. cuz those guys were garbage.
I didn't say they did change more w/ their offensive personal than those 3 guys. Those were the starting QB and two starting WRs (bringing in Green is also a change). So they went from a Palmer, Ocho, and TO as their starting QB and WRs to Dalton, Green, and Simpson as their starting QB and WRs. That's a significant change on O though. Then there is the whole new offense (which is basically the same O CLE is implementing). Not sure I'd call all three of those guys garbage, and had Palmer not decided to force his way out of Cincy we wouldn't be talking about Dalton and Cincy in the same statements.
i don't think colt is. why? cause he had the shittiest offense in the league to work with! if colt would've come into the bengals offense, would he of looked as bad? hell if he was on the colts even, do you really think he would've been just as bad? put colt on ANY TEAM other than the browns and I think he does much much better. why? cuz the browns O suckED.
Let me be clear, I do not think Colt is garbage. I simply don't think he is going to develop into an elite NFL QB and his ceiling looks to be a solid 2nd string QB. I think Colt looks only slightly better you put him in Cincy, only because a guy like Green can make a bad pass look like a good one by simply out jumping or out muscling a guy for the ball. He likely looks just as bad on the Colts as well, or any other team. Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed.
our offense was laughable with only Greg Little, a rookie wr without playing a senior year of college football, being our passing threat? and hillis missing 10 games didnt do anything to slow colt down. having a 3rd string rb try set up the pass with the run. NONE of us have any room to judge colt off this past year. its as simple as that. colt only threw 13 tds and 12 ints. with as bad a passing attack we had, Colt didn't do bad, just not as good as the expectations were that year. we were expectin 12-4 and the playoffs last year. no wonder ppl are saying Colts terrible. its not fair to colt at all. he will be fine. He's the next Drew Brees. Give. It. Time. Colt's head is dead set on improvement, he wants to win so bad. he has something to fight for
All of that has nothing to do with the issues I see with Colt. I am not looking at any stats. Colt could have thrown nothing but incompletes and INTs as far as I am concerned. The question would always come down to "were they the right throws?" The problem I see is Colt isn't progressing at his pre-snap or post snap reads.
What have you seen form Colt's actual play to make you believe he is the next Drew Brees? Colt being dead set on improvent and wanting to win bad are all admirable qualities. But none of those necessarily mean he can or will take his game to the level needed to be a top flight NFL QB, let a lone a middle of the pack one. Those are qualities shared with countless other players who get to the NFL and don't pan out. Heck those were all qualities of Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn.
and think about colt leading Indianapolis, or Cincy, or a team that has SOMETHING. it would be different man, so different.
I can think about that all I want. When I do, I still see the same issues that have nothing to do with the talent around Colt. Talent at WR or RB has nothing to do with the issues I outlined that I see.
I'd love to have the plucky 3rd QB pan out. But to date I have seen little to believe that is going to happen.
Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed.
this....QFT
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I didn't say they did change more w/ their offensive personal than those 3 guys. Those were the starting QB and two starting WRs (bringing in Green is also a change). So they went from a Palmer, Ocho, and TO as their starting QB and WRs to Dalton, Green, and Simpson as their starting QB and WRs. That's a significant change on O though. Then there is the whole new offense (which is basically the same O CLE is implementing). Not sure I'd call all three of those guys garbage, and had Palmer not decided to force his way out of Cincy we wouldn't be talking about Dalton and Cincy in the same statements.
Let me be clear, I do not think Colt is garbage. I simply don't think he is going to develop into an elite NFL QB and his ceiling looks to be a solid 2nd string QB. I think Colt looks only slightly better you put him in Cincy, only because a guy like Green can make a bad pass look like a good one by simply out jumping or out muscling a guy for the ball. He likely looks just as bad on the Colts as well, or any other team. Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed.
All of that has nothing to do with the issues I see with Colt. I am not looking at any stats. Colt could have thrown nothing but incompletes and INTs as far as I am concerned. The question would always come down to "were they the right throws?" The problem I see is Colt isn't progressing at his pre-snap or post snap reads.
What have you seen form Colt's actual play to make you believe he is the next Drew Brees? Colt being dead set on improvent and wanting to win bad are all admirable qualities. But none of those necessarily mean he can or will take his game to the level needed to be a top flight NFL QB, let a lone a middle of the pack one. Those are qualities shared with countless other players who get to the NFL and don't pan out. Heck those were all qualities of Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn.
I can think about that all I want. When I do, I still see the same issues that have nothing to do with the talent around Colt. Talent at WR or RB has nothing to do with the issues I outlined that I see.
I'd love to have the plucky 3rd QB pan out. But to date I have seen little to believe that is going to happen.
okay, you're looking at colt individually and I get that. With a qb tho the rest of the team's state does matter and impact his performance.All the things I brought up about the teams problems in 2011, if anything, impact the quarterback the most. The position of QB is a tough cookie to cut. Its almost a domino effect if a RB is hurt, or a WR can't make a catch or get open, or if the line falters. The QB is involved with EVERY player and play, and the saying "the team is as good as it's worst player" couldnt be more true here. The holes on the team impact the QB's play. You look at Colt saying he cant make quick enough reads, or get through his progressions, or make the deep out throw. Im saying that Colt cant go through his prgressions cause the D doesnt expect/respect the run game, therefore blitzing, giving Colt less time to even itch his crotch. Or if he cant make a deep out throw because of pressure? or because since the run isnt expected the coverage is tightened on our best wr and Colt is forced to make margarita out of lemons instead of lemonade out of lemons. You see my point? Its a chain reaction of bad that happens if the team is not prepared/fully utilized with it's talent due to injuries.
okay, you're looking at colt individually and I get that. With a qb tho the rest of the team's state does matter and impact his performance.
I'd agree it impacts the end result/production you get out of the QB. Basically it impacts how good or bad a stat sheet looks (QBs, other players, drive log). What it doesn't impact though is how a QB is progressing as far as understanding how to play his position, nor the physical skill sets the QB already has.
All the things I brought up about the teams problems in 2011, if anything, impact the quarterback the most. The position of QB is a tough cookie to cut. Its almost a domino effect if a RB is hurt, or a WR can't make a catch or get open, or if the line falters. The QB is involved with EVERY player and play, and the saying "the team is as good as it's worst player" couldnt be more true here. The holes on the team impact the QB's play. You look at Colt saying he cant make quick enough reads, or get through his progressions, or make the deep out throw. Im saying that Colt cant go through his prgressions cause the D doesnt expect/respect the run game, therefore blitzing, giving Colt less time to even itch his crotch. Or if he cant make a deep out throw because of pressure? or because since the run isnt expected the coverage is tightened on our best wr and Colt is forced to make margarita out of lemons instead of lemonade out of lemons. You see my point? Its a chain reaction of bad that happens if the team is not prepared/fully utilized with it's talent due to injuries.
They all impact the net result/production. Reads are reads. If the D is blitzing
a) the QB has to identify that pre-snap, which Colt far to often fails to do
b ) has to adjust his protection as best possible to counter that blitz, which Colt far to often fails to do
c) identify where the vacated area is because of the blitz, which Colt far to often fails to do
d) get rid of the ball quickly, which Colt far to often fails to do.
Then end result from properly executing those things can end up the same as what CLE had this past year because of the other issues. The problem here is Colt is not doing any of those things well, which only compounds the issues more. So now you are looking at holes at WR, the running game, and witht he QB. You fix the WR and running game, the QB is still an issue as switching out WR and running game won't make Colt do those four things any better.
On the deep outs, Colt has fluttered those even with time, which have resulted in balls knocked down, nearly picked, and picked. All because the ball gets there with no zip and the CB has time to get back to the ball.
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I'll have to agree with Browns Fan! Some of those problems were Colt's own doing. Watch some film of Aaron Rodgers or Brees- and then take a look at McCoy and try and tell me Colt has any chance of approaching that level. (Or watch Rotlisberger's bomb to Wallace, and compare that to Colt's underthrown duck to Little.)
McCoy will be 26 in September and the odds of him developing further physically are about zero. So what you see is what you're going to get in 2012. If Colt came equipped with RGIIIs arm, I can guarantee you he wouldn't have lasted until the third round.
BTW, what Browns fan is saying is exactly how coaches break down tape. Did Colt read the defense correctly, and call out the right protection? Did he recognize his hot read fast enough when he got blitzed? (get the stopwatch out to tenths of a second).
Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Watch Colt throw a 15~18 yard out then watch Brees throw the same pass. Colt does not have the same arm strength. When most people talk arm stregth, it's not about how far you can throw the ball with a wind up and a running start (Which colt had on that 50 yarder). It's about how quickly the ball gets there, especially in those tight 15~20 yard throws that have to be zipped in there with no chance for the defender to get a hand on the ball.
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Some fans here defending the crappy play of Colt sound like girls defending their abusive/crappy boyfriends.
"Oh he had a bad childhood," she will say. (Football translation: "Oh everyone else around Colt was terrible, he had no weapons or O-line.")
Or she will say "he can be so romantic sometimes," ignoring the fact that he beats her the other times. (Football translation: "Remember that 1 play Colt made 2 years ago against the Patriots?" ignoring the fact that he's completely sucked 95% of the time.)
And finally, she will say "But he's trying to change, he needs my help and love." (Football translation: "But Colt works so hard! Just give him an All-Pro at every position and watch him go 9-7.)
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I was talking to some friends about this and they brought up two great examples of what I'm talking about regarding the QB position. The first is the panthers (which was brought up). Jimmy Clausen had the exact same weapons to throw to, the same backs and a healthier defense. They were BY FAR the worst offensive team in the league last year because of it. Trust me, I live in Charlotte and got to watch that clown play. Insert Cam Newton with the same guys (in fact they lost a probable starting receiver in gettis) and offense sky rockets. The fact they went 6-10 was due in large part to crippling injuries on the defensive side of the ball. I don't think they're playoff bound last year if everyone stays healthy, but I guarantee they're at .500 or better.
Now look at it on the other side of the coin with our good friend Derek Anderson. He leaves to go to Arizona with all the tools in the world, namely Larry Breaston Doucet and two good backs in Beanie Wells and Hightower. I don't think I need to tell everyone how that ended up. The morale of the story here is that no matter what the talent around a QB is, if he doesn't cut the mustard he doesn't. You can whine and complain that Colt hasn't had the weapons around him and blah blah blah, but a lot more of the errors he's making falls directly on his shoulders. This quote here by brownsfan! sums it up:
"Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed."
Guys, I'm just tired of making excuses for below average QB's. If RGIII is the franchise guy, take him. You guys also act as if we won't have anymore draft picks if we have to move up a few spots to take him. Yea, the 22nd pick might be gone but Holmgren and crew are going to a fair deal and this draft is loaded with offensive talent. We take RGIII and still have plenty of picks to supplement needs.
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I was talking to some friends about this and they brought up two great examples of what I'm talking about regarding the QB position. The first is the panthers (which was brought up). Jimmy Clausen had the exact same weapons to throw to, the same backs and a healthier defense. They were BY FAR the worst offensive team in the league last year because of it. Trust me, I live in Charlotte and got to watch that clown play. Insert Cam Newton with the same guys (in fact they lost a probable starting receiver in gettis) and offense sky rockets. The fact they went 6-10 was due in large part to crippling injuries on the defensive side of the ball. I don't think they're playoff bound last year if everyone stays healthy, but I guarantee they're at .500 or better.
Now look at it on the other side of the coin with our good friend Derek Anderson. He leaves to go to Arizona with all the tools in the world, namely Larry Breaston Doucet and two good backs in Beanie Wells and Hightower. I don't think I need to tell everyone how that ended up. The morale of the story here is that no matter what the talent around a QB is, if he doesn't cut the mustard he doesn't. You can whine and complain that Colt hasn't had the weapons around him and blah blah blah, but a lot more of the errors he's making falls directly on his shoulders. This quote here by brownsfan! sums it up:
"Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed."
Guys, I'm just tired of making excuses for below average QB's. If RGIII is the franchise guy, take him. You guys also act as if we won't have anymore draft picks if we have to move up a few spots to take him. Yea, the 22nd pick might be gone but Holmgren and crew are going to a fair deal and this draft is loaded with offensive talent. We take RGIII and still have plenty of picks to supplement needs.
I was talking to some friends about this and they brought up two great examples of what I'm talking about regarding the QB position. The first is the panthers (which was brought up). Jimmy Clausen had the exact same weapons to throw to, the same backs and a healthier defense. They were BY FAR the worst offensive team in the league last year because of it. Trust me, I live in Charlotte and got to watch that clown play. Insert Cam Newton with the same guys (in fact they lost a probable starting receiver in gettis) and offense sky rockets. The fact they went 6-10 was due in large part to crippling injuries on the defensive side of the ball. I don't think they're playoff bound last year if everyone stays healthy, but I guarantee they're at .500 or better.
Now look at it on the other side of the coin with our good friend Derek Anderson. He leaves to go to Arizona with all the tools in the world, namely Larry Breaston Doucet and two good backs in Beanie Wells and Hightower. I don't think I need to tell everyone how that ended up. The morale of the story here is that no matter what the talent around a QB is, if he doesn't cut the mustard he doesn't. You can whine and complain that Colt hasn't had the weapons around him and blah blah blah, but a lot more of the errors he's making falls directly on his shoulders. This quote here by brownsfan! sums it up:
"Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed."
Guys, I'm just tired of making excuses for below average QB's. If RGIII is the franchise guy, take him. You guys also act as if we won't have anymore draft picks if we have to move up a few spots to take him. Yea, the 22nd pick might be gone but Holmgren and crew are going to a fair deal and this draft is loaded with offensive talent. We take RGIII and still have plenty of picks to supplement needs.
It's not the same scenario with Cleveland. Put a QB on an offense that sucks, and he's going to perform below average.
I will stand by my view of a system making a QB. Not the other way around. Brees has recievers to throw to (ridiculous catch made for a 60 yard throw on that video), consistent running game and plenty of protection from that video posted.
Notice how his reciever GOES for the ball and beats the corner to the ball.The throw by Brees wasnt even good. How many recivers do the Browns have that are as aggressive as this running routes? maybe greg little, maybe.
Everyone here sayin no soup to Colt, you mean that he had the best oppurtunity as possible last year to show what he could do? And he didn't do it?
On your point about Derek Anderson, he sucked here, he will suck at Arizone. IMO Colt has not "sucked", yes he's been inconsistent, but not a DA level of bad.
On the cam newton topic, you said that the panthers already had an offensive system in place, but Clausen wasnt cutting it. But clausen is a DA level of QB,Clausen is worse than McCoy even. and he still should've beat Cleveland when they played and won by a point by CAR missing a fg in 2010.
It's better to have a system in place, THEN have an all star QB fill in the role and start making fireworks.
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I'll have to agree with Browns Fan! Some of those problems were Colt's own doing. Watch some film of Aaron Rodgers or Brees- and then take a look at McCoy and try and tell me Colt has any chance of approaching that level. (Or watch Rotlisberger's bomb to Wallace, and compare that to Colt's underthrown duck to Little.)
McCoy will be 26 in September and the odds of him developing further physically are about zero. So what you see is what you're going to get in 2012. If Colt came equipped with RGIIIs arm, I can guarantee you he wouldn't have lasted until the third round.
BTW, what Browns fan is saying is exactly how coaches break down tape. Did Colt read the defense correctly, and call out the right protection? Did he recognize his hot read fast enough when he got blitzed? (get the stopwatch out to tenths of a second).
Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
He will still get a chance, he will be the starter for 2012, and he will improve. Simple as dat.
Browns fans dont have our heads up our asses before this year like we do every other year. realistically 7-9 8-8 9-7 is all I want FOR NEXT YEAR. of course I want a super bowl but its not happening next year or the year after. Last year showed we're closer but still have a while to go.
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Some fans here defending the crappy play of Colt sound like girls defending their abusive/crappy boyfriends.
"Oh he had a bad childhood," she will say. (Football translation: "Oh everyone else around Colt was terrible, he had no weapons or O-line.")
Or she will say "he can be so romantic sometimes," ignoring the fact that he beats her the other times. (Football translation: "Remember that 1 play Colt made 2 years ago against the Patriots?" ignoring the fact that he's completely sucked 95% of the time.)
And finally, she will say "But he's trying to change, he needs my help and love." (Football translation: "But Colt works so hard! Just give him an All-Pro at every position and watch him go 9-7.)
Some fans here defending the crappy play of Colt sound like girls defending their abusive/crappy boyfriends.
"Oh he had a bad childhood," she will say. (Football translation: "Oh everyone else around Colt was terrible, he had no weapons or O-line.")
Or she will say "he can be so romantic sometimes," ignoring the fact that he beats her the other times. (Football translation: "Remember that 1 play Colt made 2 years ago against the Patriots?" ignoring the fact that he's completely sucked 95% of the time.)
And finally, she will say "But he's trying to change, he needs my help and love." (Football translation: "But Colt works so hard! Just give him an All-Pro at every position and watch him go 9-7.)
hey man, we don't say anything to 'your' manager when you have tartar sauce and goose shit all over your clothes while you're waiting on the bell to ring for operating the fryer and get us some onion rings!
do us all a favor....swim back down between that 3rd season of american idol 'when your mom was one of the church mamas' and slither off her leg and get whished off in a downward flushing motion and end up in your people's greatest attribute: which is commanly called the amazon river.
and to all you phony fxxxxg rg3xxxx mferssss. don't come here to ny on the eve of the nfl draft and stand outside MSG where the reporters /media is deep and stand behind some reporter live on tv and star doing the robot.
your shit is whack
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I was talking to some friends about this and they brought up two great examples of what I'm talking about regarding the QB position. The first is the panthers (which was brought up). Jimmy Clausen had the exact same weapons to throw to, the same backs and a healthier defense. They were BY FAR the worst offensive team in the league last year because of it. Trust me, I live in Charlotte and got to watch that clown play. Insert Cam Newton with the same guys (in fact they lost a probable starting receiver in gettis) and offense sky rockets. The fact they went 6-10 was due in large part to crippling injuries on the defensive side of the ball. I don't think they're playoff bound last year if everyone stays healthy, but I guarantee they're at .500 or better.
Now look at it on the other side of the coin with our good friend Derek Anderson. He leaves to go to Arizona with all the tools in the world, namely Larry Breaston Doucet and two good backs in Beanie Wells and Hightower. I don't think I need to tell everyone how that ended up. The morale of the story here is that no matter what the talent around a QB is, if he doesn't cut the mustard he doesn't. You can whine and complain that Colt hasn't had the weapons around him and blah blah blah, but a lot more of the errors he's making falls directly on his shoulders. This quote here by brownsfan! sums it up:
"Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed."
Guys, I'm just tired of making excuses for below average QB's. If RGIII is the franchise guy, take him. You guys also act as if we won't have anymore draft picks if we have to move up a few spots to take him. Yea, the 22nd pick might be gone but Holmgren and crew are going to a fair deal and this draft is loaded with offensive talent. We take RGIII and still have plenty of picks to supplement needs.
It's not the same scenario with Cleveland. Put a QB on an offense that sucks, and he's going to perform below average.
I will stand by my view of a system making a QB. Not the other way around. Brees has recievers to throw to (ridiculous catch made for a 60 yard throw on that video), consistent running game and plenty of protection from that video posted.
Notice how his reciever GOES for the ball and beats the corner to the ball.The throw by Brees wasnt even good. How many recivers do the Browns have that are as aggressive as this running routes? maybe greg little, maybe.
Everyone here sayin no soup to Colt, you mean that he had the best oppurtunity as possible last year to show what he could do? And he didn't do it?
On your point about Derek Anderson, he sucked here, he will suck at Arizone. IMO Colt has not "sucked", yes he's been inconsistent, but not a DA level of bad.
On the cam newton topic, you said that the panthers already had an offensive system in place, but Clausen wasnt cutting it. But clausen is a DA level of QB,Clausen is worse than McCoy even. and he still should've beat Cleveland when they played and won by a point by CAR missing a fg in 2010.
It's better to have a system in place, THEN have an all star QB fill in the role and start making fireworks.
It's not the same scenario with Cleveland. Put a QB on an offense that sucks, and he's going to perform below average.
I will stand by my view of a system making a QB. Not the other way around. Brees has recievers to throw to (ridiculous catch made for a 60 yard throw on that video), consistent running game and plenty of protection from that video posted.
Notice how his reciever GOES for the ball and beats the corner to the ball.The throw by Brees wasnt even good. How many recivers do the Browns have that are as aggressive as this running routes? maybe greg little, maybe.
Well I respect your opinion but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that if Brees, Brady or any of the young franchise were on this team even with the sub-par talent at the skills positions we'd be in the top 15 or so in offense. I've shown on here a few times that you don't need to go get mega, 1st round offense guys to have a dominate offense in the NFL, in facts it's quite the opposite. Most dominate offenses in the NFL (saints, giants, packers, patriots) all mostly have 3rd round guys or later at the skill positions. Look it up if you don't believe me, but it's true.
You can have all the players you want around a QB, but if he isn't franchise caliber it's not going to matter. You can hope that we load the offense with 1st and 2nd round talent we might be able to squeeze every ounce out of McCoy we can, but that's not good enough to win consistently. He's just not the guy at the end of the day.
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Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Watch Colt throw a 15~18 yard out then watch Brees throw the same pass. Colt does not have the same arm strength. When most people talk arm stregth, it's not about how far you can throw the ball with a wind up and a running start (Which colt had on that 50 yarder). It's about how quickly the ball gets there, especially in those tight 15~20 yard throws that have to be zipped in there with no chance for the defender to get a hand on the ball.
Watch Colt throw a 15~18 yard out then watch Brees throw the same pass. Colt does not have the same arm strength. When most people talk arm stregth, it's not about how far you can throw the ball with a wind up and a running start (Which colt had on that 50 yarder). It's about how quickly the ball gets there, especially in those tight 15~20 yard throws that have to be zipped in there with no chance for the defender to get a hand on the ball.
What you said. Most decent High School quarterbacks can toss the ball 50-60 yards with a full windup. If you watch the guys with real arm strength say Farve in his prime or Rothlisberger- on those 50 yard passes the ball gets there a hell of a lot faster. (Incidentally, RGIII's arm strength puts Colt's to shame, the kid can toss the rock 50 yards with a flick of the wrist.)
Not only do Colts passes not get there as fast, IMHO his deep accuracy is suspect.
Finally- exactly right- couple of weeks ago I did the Directv shortcuts of about 4 Browns games- and I don't know how many times Colts short outs got jumped by CBs, knocked down (or in a couple of cases sent back as pick sixes) because the ball lacked true velocity.
I said it before, and I'll say it again to those who are under the delusion Colt is somehow going to develop a Drew Brees arm. Colt will be 26 in seven months, and he's already had two stinking years of weight room training with the best instructors in Cleveland. Please get it through your heads even being generous, Colt is at about 98% of what he can physically develop into.
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It's not the same scenario with Cleveland. Put a QB on an offense that sucks, and he's going to perform below average.
I will stand by my view of a system making a QB. Not the other way around. Brees has recievers to throw to (ridiculous catch made for a 60 yard throw on that video), consistent running game and plenty of protection from that video posted.
Notice how his reciever GOES for the ball and beats the corner to the ball.The throw by Brees wasnt even good. How many recivers do the Browns have that are as aggressive as this running routes? maybe greg little, maybe.
Well I respect your opinion but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that if Brees, Brady or any of the young franchise were on this team even with the sub-par talent at the skills positions we'd be in the top 15 or so in offense. I've shown on here a few times that you don't need to go get mega, 1st round offense guys to have a dominate offense in the NFL, in facts it's quite the opposite. Most dominate offenses in the NFL (saints, giants, packers, patriots) all mostly have 3rd round guys or later at the skill positions. Look it up if you don't believe me, but it's true.
You can have all the players you want around a QB, but if he isn't franchise caliber it's not going to matter. You can hope that we load the offense with 1st and 2nd round talent we might be able to squeeze every ounce out of McCoy we can, but that's not good enough to win consistently. He's just not the guy at the end of the day.
Well I respect your opinion but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that if Brees, Brady or any of the young franchise were on this team even with the sub-par talent at the skills positions we'd be in the top 15 or so in offense. I've shown on here a few times that you don't need to go get mega, 1st round offense guys to have a dominate offense in the NFL, in facts it's quite the opposite. Most dominate offenses in the NFL (saints, giants, packers, patriots) all mostly have 3rd round guys or later at the skill positions. Look it up if you don't believe me, but it's true.
You can have all the players you want around a QB, but if he isn't franchise caliber it's not going to matter. You can hope that we load the offense with 1st and 2nd round talent we might be able to squeeze every ounce out of McCoy we can, but that's not good enough to win consistently. He's just not the guy at the end of the day.
Yup, look at the multiple Super Bowl winners- the common denominator is they ALL have\had outstanding qbs. Sure you can go one and done with a guy like Doug Williams or Rich Gannon- but it's not the recipe for long term success. Otto Graham retired in 1955, and the only thing we've had close to a franchise qb since was Bernie Kosar- and that was 20 years ago. I say it's about freaking time for another one no?
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Well I respect your opinion but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that if Brees, Brady or any of the young franchise were on this team even with the sub-par talent at the skills positions we'd be in the top 15 or so in offense. I've shown on here a few times that you don't need to go get mega, 1st round offense guys to have a dominate offense in the NFL, in facts it's quite the opposite. Most dominate offenses in the NFL (saints, giants, packers, patriots) all mostly have 3rd round guys or later at the skill positions. Look it up if you don't believe me, but it's true.
You can have all the players you want around a QB, but if he isn't franchise caliber it's not going to matter. You can hope that we load the offense with 1st and 2nd round talent we might be able to squeeze every ounce out of McCoy we can, but that's not good enough to win consistently. He's just not the guy at the end of the day.
Yup, look at the multiple Super Bowl winners- the common denominator is they ALL have\had outstanding qbs. Sure you can go one and done with a guy like Doug Williams or Rich Gannon- but it's not the recipe for long term success. Otto Graham retired in 1955, and the only thing we've had close to a franchise qb since was Bernie Kosar- and that was 20 years ago. I say it's about freaking time for another one no?
Yup, look at the multiple Super Bowl winners- the common denominator is they ALL have\had outstanding qbs. Sure you can go one and done with a guy like Doug Williams or Rich Gannon- but it's not the recipe for long term success. Otto Graham retired in 1955, and the only thing we've had close to a franchise qb since was Bernie Kosar- and that was 20 years ago. I say it's about freaking time for another one no?
I'd say this is the real reason im so icked about the RG3 vs. Colt debate is ppl think RG3 will not only be better than McCoy his rookie year, but will lead the team to a super bowl and be a franchise QB.
popycock.
Luck> RG3 (HEISMAN WINNER)
LUCK DIDNT WIN THE HEISMAN, AND STILL WILL BE PICKED BEFORE RG3. this is enough to not take a risk on him. he's not a "sure thing" like ppl believe on here! Its Quinn all over again!!!
Maybe I'm just tired of QBs thinking their hot shit come into CLE and be kicked out by the fans after 2 years cause they havent made the playoffs.
Its actually looking like CLE wont even draft RG3 and trade with another team for more picks and get Flynn, which is fine by me.
I am glad we could dispute this without name calling and hostile comments.
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Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Brees 60 yard throw and on the money. Stopping making stuff up
Brees 60 yard throw and on the money. Stopping making stuff up
That was a nice heave too..now you quit makin stuff up
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
No, you are wrong, and if left to you the team would be condemned to the same shit we are enjoying now.
This issue of RG3 is not whether he fits or not. The issue is, until the Browns are involved on routine basis of playing among the teams who draft the hottest prospects, they aren't going to attract jack shit to the other positions.
The Browns need to draft RG3. That's all there is to it.
I agree. RG3 is the way to go. It will show that Lerner is willing to spend money on potential play makers. Colt doesn't show much promise in my opinion so lets get RG3 if we can. We can draft tackles and the like 3rd round.
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Yup, look at the multiple Super Bowl winners- the common denominator is they ALL have\had outstanding qbs. Sure you can go one and done with a guy like Doug Williams or Rich Gannon- but it's not the recipe for long term success. Otto Graham retired in 1955, and the only thing we've had close to a franchise qb since was Bernie Kosar- and that was 20 years ago. I say it's about freaking time for another one no?
I'd say this is the real reason im so icked about the RG3 vs. Colt debate is ppl think RG3 will not only be better than McCoy his rookie year, but will lead the team to a super bowl and be a franchise QB.
popycock.
Luck> RG3 (HEISMAN WINNER)
LUCK DIDNT WIN THE HEISMAN, AND STILL WILL BE PICKED BEFORE RG3. this is enough to not take a risk on him. he's not a "sure thing" like ppl believe on here! Its Quinn all over again!!!
Maybe I'm just tired of QBs thinking their hot shit come into CLE and be kicked out by the fans after 2 years cause they havent made the playoffs.
Its actually looking like CLE wont even draft RG3 and trade with another team for more picks and get Flynn, which is fine by me.
I am glad we could dispute this without name calling and hostile comments.
I'd say this is the real reason im so icked about the RG3 vs. Colt debate is ppl think RG3 will not only be better than McCoy his rookie year, but will lead the team to a super bowl and be a franchise QB.
popycock.
Luck> RG3 (HEISMAN WINNER)
LUCK DIDNT WIN THE HEISMAN, AND STILL WILL BE PICKED BEFORE RG3. this is enough to not take a risk on him. he's not a "sure thing" like ppl believe on here! Its Quinn all over again!!!
Maybe I'm just tired of QBs thinking their hot shit come into CLE and be kicked out by the fans after 2 years cause they havent made the playoffs.
Its actually looking like CLE wont even draft RG3 and trade with another team for more picks and get Flynn, which is fine by me.
I am glad we could dispute this without name calling and hostile comments.
thank the overseers above for some one with some brains.
I said it before, and I'll say it again to those who are under the delusion Colt is somehow going to develop a Drew Brees arm. Colt will be 26 in seven months, and he's already had two stinking years of weight room training with the best instructors in Cleveland. Please get it through your heads even being generous, Colt is at about 98% of what he can physically develop into.
man i don't think anybody here is saying that. but draft another QB this year? we making the playoffs or superbowl next year, with any new QB? NO. so why not draft to fill the GAPING holes that are all over the place on this team? everyone is so flippin NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW RG3 fans which does nothing but cut anyone's theory of continuity that people say we have to have right out the window. people didn't give it to mangini and now they've got colt's head on the chopping block. make up your flipping minds. give a guy time or throw him on the bus. a lot of things have to come together for anyone to get their job done properly. go to work anywhere and if your suppoting cast isn't there, you're the one on the hook.
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I'd say this is the real reason im so icked about the RG3 vs. Colt debate is ppl think RG3 will not only be better than McCoy his rookie year, but will lead the team to a super bowl and be a franchise QB.
popycock.
Luck> RG3 (HEISMAN WINNER)
LUCK DIDNT WIN THE HEISMAN, AND STILL WILL BE PICKED BEFORE RG3. this is enough to not take a risk on him. he's not a "sure thing" like ppl believe on here! Its Quinn all over again!!!
Maybe I'm just tired of QBs thinking their hot shit come into CLE and be kicked out by the fans after 2 years cause they havent made the playoffs.
Its actually looking like CLE wont even draft RG3 and trade with another team for more picks and get Flynn, which is fine by me.
I am glad we could dispute this without name calling and hostile comments.
thank the overseers above for some one with some brains.
I said it before, and I'll say it again to those who are under the delusion Colt is somehow going to develop a Drew Brees arm. Colt will be 26 in seven months, and he's already had two stinking years of weight room training with the best instructors in Cleveland. Please get it through your heads even being generous, Colt is at about 98% of what he can physically develop into.
man i don't think anybody here is saying that. but draft another QB this year? we making the playoffs or superbowl next year, with any new QB? NO. so why not draft to fill the GAPING holes that are all over the place on this team? everyone is so flippin NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW RG3 fans which does nothing but cut anyone's theory of continuity that people say we have to have right out the window. people didn't give it to mangini and now they've got colt's head on the chopping block. make up your flipping minds. give a guy time or throw him on the bus. a lot of things have to come together for anyone to get their job done properly. go to work anywhere and if your suppoting cast isn't there, you're the one on the hook.
thank the overseers above for some one with some brains.
man i don't think anybody here is saying that. but draft another QB this year? we making the playoffs or superbowl next year, with any new QB? NO. so why not draft to fill the GAPING holes that are all over the place on this team? everyone is so flippin NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW RG3 fans which does nothing but cut anyone's theory of continuity that people say we have to have right out the window. people didn't give it to mangini and now they've got colt's head on the chopping block. make up your flipping minds. give a guy time or throw him on the bus. a lot of things have to come together for anyone to get their job done properly. go to work anywhere and if your suppoting cast isn't there, you're the one on the hook.
Instant gratification is all fans want, and I understand their impatience. We are ALL going through it.
But to put 75% of the blame for the lackluster season of 11 on Colt, is not a correct way of evaluating the team, especially as a whole.
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