Colt Mcfrye
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I was talking to some friends about this and they brought up two great examples of what I'm talking about regarding the QB position. The first is the panthers (which was brought up). Jimmy Clausen had the exact same weapons to throw to, the same backs and a healthier defense. They were BY FAR the worst offensive team in the league last year because of it. Trust me, I live in Charlotte and got to watch that clown play. Insert Cam Newton with the same guys (in fact they lost a probable starting receiver in gettis) and offense sky rockets. The fact they went 6-10 was due in large part to crippling injuries on the defensive side of the ball. I don't think they're playoff bound last year if everyone stays healthy, but I guarantee they're at .500 or better.
Now look at it on the other side of the coin with our good friend Derek Anderson. He leaves to go to Arizona with all the tools in the world, namely Larry Breaston Doucet and two good backs in Beanie Wells and Hightower. I don't think I need to tell everyone how that ended up. The morale of the story here is that no matter what the talent around a QB is, if he doesn't cut the mustard he doesn't. You can whine and complain that Colt hasn't had the weapons around him and blah blah blah, but a lot more of the errors he's making falls directly on his shoulders. This quote here by brownsfan! sums it up:
"Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed."
Guys, I'm just tired of making excuses for below average QB's. If RGIII is the franchise guy, take him. You guys also act as if we won't have anymore draft picks if we have to move up a few spots to take him. Yea, the 22nd pick might be gone but Holmgren and crew are going to a fair deal and this draft is loaded with offensive talent. We take RGIII and still have plenty of picks to supplement needs.
I was talking to some friends about this and they brought up two great examples of what I'm talking about regarding the QB position. The first is the panthers (which was brought up). Jimmy Clausen had the exact same weapons to throw to, the same backs and a healthier defense. They were BY FAR the worst offensive team in the league last year because of it. Trust me, I live in Charlotte and got to watch that clown play. Insert Cam Newton with the same guys (in fact they lost a probable starting receiver in gettis) and offense sky rockets. The fact they went 6-10 was due in large part to crippling injuries on the defensive side of the ball. I don't think they're playoff bound last year if everyone stays healthy, but I guarantee they're at .500 or better.
Now look at it on the other side of the coin with our good friend Derek Anderson. He leaves to go to Arizona with all the tools in the world, namely Larry Breaston Doucet and two good backs in Beanie Wells and Hightower. I don't think I need to tell everyone how that ended up. The morale of the story here is that no matter what the talent around a QB is, if he doesn't cut the mustard he doesn't. You can whine and complain that Colt hasn't had the weapons around him and blah blah blah, but a lot more of the errors he's making falls directly on his shoulders. This quote here by brownsfan! sums it up:
"Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed."
Guys, I'm just tired of making excuses for below average QB's. If RGIII is the franchise guy, take him. You guys also act as if we won't have anymore draft picks if we have to move up a few spots to take him. Yea, the 22nd pick might be gone but Holmgren and crew are going to a fair deal and this draft is loaded with offensive talent. We take RGIII and still have plenty of picks to supplement needs.
It's not the same scenario with Cleveland. Put a QB on an offense that sucks, and he's going to perform below average.
I will stand by my view of a system making a QB. Not the other way around. Brees has recievers to throw to (ridiculous catch made for a 60 yard throw on that video), consistent running game and plenty of protection from that video posted.
Notice how his reciever GOES for the ball and beats the corner to the ball.The throw by Brees wasnt even good. How many recivers do the Browns have that are as aggressive as this running routes? maybe greg little, maybe.
Everyone here sayin no soup to Colt, you mean that he had the best oppurtunity as possible last year to show what he could do? And he didn't do it?
On your point about Derek Anderson, he sucked here, he will suck at Arizone. IMO Colt has not "sucked", yes he's been inconsistent, but not a DA level of bad.
On the cam newton topic, you said that the panthers already had an offensive system in place, but Clausen wasnt cutting it. But clausen is a DA level of QB,Clausen is worse than McCoy even. and he still should've beat Cleveland when they played and won by a point by CAR missing a fg in 2010.
It's better to have a system in place, THEN have an all star QB fill in the role and start making fireworks.
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I'll have to agree with Browns Fan! Some of those problems were Colt's own doing. Watch some film of Aaron Rodgers or Brees- and then take a look at McCoy and try and tell me Colt has any chance of approaching that level. (Or watch Rotlisberger's bomb to Wallace, and compare that to Colt's underthrown duck to Little.)
McCoy will be 26 in September and the odds of him developing further physically are about zero. So what you see is what you're going to get in 2012. If Colt came equipped with RGIIIs arm, I can guarantee you he wouldn't have lasted until the third round.
BTW, what Browns fan is saying is exactly how coaches break down tape. Did Colt read the defense correctly, and call out the right protection? Did he recognize his hot read fast enough when he got blitzed? (get the stopwatch out to tenths of a second).
Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
He will still get a chance, he will be the starter for 2012, and he will improve. Simple as dat.
Browns fans dont have our heads up our asses before this year like we do every other year. realistically 7-9 8-8 9-7 is all I want FOR NEXT YEAR. of course I want a super bowl but its not happening next year or the year after. Last year showed we're closer but still have a while to go.
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Some fans here defending the crappy play of Colt sound like girls defending their abusive/crappy boyfriends.
"Oh he had a bad childhood," she will say. (Football translation: "Oh everyone else around Colt was terrible, he had no weapons or O-line.")
Or she will say "he can be so romantic sometimes," ignoring the fact that he beats her the other times. (Football translation: "Remember that 1 play Colt made 2 years ago against the Patriots?" ignoring the fact that he's completely sucked 95% of the time.)
And finally, she will say "But he's trying to change, he needs my help and love." (Football translation: "But Colt works so hard! Just give him an All-Pro at every position and watch him go 9-7.)
Some fans here defending the crappy play of Colt sound like girls defending their abusive/crappy boyfriends.
"Oh he had a bad childhood," she will say. (Football translation: "Oh everyone else around Colt was terrible, he had no weapons or O-line.")
Or she will say "he can be so romantic sometimes," ignoring the fact that he beats her the other times. (Football translation: "Remember that 1 play Colt made 2 years ago against the Patriots?" ignoring the fact that he's completely sucked 95% of the time.)
And finally, she will say "But he's trying to change, he needs my help and love." (Football translation: "But Colt works so hard! Just give him an All-Pro at every position and watch him go 9-7.)
hey man, we don't say anything to 'your' manager when you have tartar sauce and goose shit all over your clothes while you're waiting on the bell to ring for operating the fryer and get us some onion rings!
do us all a favor....swim back down between that 3rd season of american idol 'when your mom was one of the church mamas' and slither off her leg and get whished off in a downward flushing motion and end up in your people's greatest attribute: which is commanly called the amazon river.
and to all you phony fxxxxg rg3xxxx mferssss. don't come here to ny on the eve of the nfl draft and stand outside MSG where the reporters /media is deep and stand behind some reporter live on tv and star doing the robot.
your shit is whack
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I was talking to some friends about this and they brought up two great examples of what I'm talking about regarding the QB position. The first is the panthers (which was brought up). Jimmy Clausen had the exact same weapons to throw to, the same backs and a healthier defense. They were BY FAR the worst offensive team in the league last year because of it. Trust me, I live in Charlotte and got to watch that clown play. Insert Cam Newton with the same guys (in fact they lost a probable starting receiver in gettis) and offense sky rockets. The fact they went 6-10 was due in large part to crippling injuries on the defensive side of the ball. I don't think they're playoff bound last year if everyone stays healthy, but I guarantee they're at .500 or better.
Now look at it on the other side of the coin with our good friend Derek Anderson. He leaves to go to Arizona with all the tools in the world, namely Larry Breaston Doucet and two good backs in Beanie Wells and Hightower. I don't think I need to tell everyone how that ended up. The morale of the story here is that no matter what the talent around a QB is, if he doesn't cut the mustard he doesn't. You can whine and complain that Colt hasn't had the weapons around him and blah blah blah, but a lot more of the errors he's making falls directly on his shoulders. This quote here by brownsfan! sums it up:
"Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed."
Guys, I'm just tired of making excuses for below average QB's. If RGIII is the franchise guy, take him. You guys also act as if we won't have anymore draft picks if we have to move up a few spots to take him. Yea, the 22nd pick might be gone but Holmgren and crew are going to a fair deal and this draft is loaded with offensive talent. We take RGIII and still have plenty of picks to supplement needs.
It's not the same scenario with Cleveland. Put a QB on an offense that sucks, and he's going to perform below average.
I will stand by my view of a system making a QB. Not the other way around. Brees has recievers to throw to (ridiculous catch made for a 60 yard throw on that video), consistent running game and plenty of protection from that video posted.
Notice how his reciever GOES for the ball and beats the corner to the ball.The throw by Brees wasnt even good. How many recivers do the Browns have that are as aggressive as this running routes? maybe greg little, maybe.
Everyone here sayin no soup to Colt, you mean that he had the best oppurtunity as possible last year to show what he could do? And he didn't do it?
On your point about Derek Anderson, he sucked here, he will suck at Arizone. IMO Colt has not "sucked", yes he's been inconsistent, but not a DA level of bad.
On the cam newton topic, you said that the panthers already had an offensive system in place, but Clausen wasnt cutting it. But clausen is a DA level of QB,Clausen is worse than McCoy even. and he still should've beat Cleveland when they played and won by a point by CAR missing a fg in 2010.
It's better to have a system in place, THEN have an all star QB fill in the role and start making fireworks.
It's not the same scenario with Cleveland. Put a QB on an offense that sucks, and he's going to perform below average.
I will stand by my view of a system making a QB. Not the other way around. Brees has recievers to throw to (ridiculous catch made for a 60 yard throw on that video), consistent running game and plenty of protection from that video posted.
Notice how his reciever GOES for the ball and beats the corner to the ball.The throw by Brees wasnt even good. How many recivers do the Browns have that are as aggressive as this running routes? maybe greg little, maybe.
Well I respect your opinion but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that if Brees, Brady or any of the young franchise were on this team even with the sub-par talent at the skills positions we'd be in the top 15 or so in offense. I've shown on here a few times that you don't need to go get mega, 1st round offense guys to have a dominate offense in the NFL, in facts it's quite the opposite. Most dominate offenses in the NFL (saints, giants, packers, patriots) all mostly have 3rd round guys or later at the skill positions. Look it up if you don't believe me, but it's true.
You can have all the players you want around a QB, but if he isn't franchise caliber it's not going to matter. You can hope that we load the offense with 1st and 2nd round talent we might be able to squeeze every ounce out of McCoy we can, but that's not good enough to win consistently. He's just not the guy at the end of the day.
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Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Watch Colt throw a 15~18 yard out then watch Brees throw the same pass. Colt does not have the same arm strength. When most people talk arm stregth, it's not about how far you can throw the ball with a wind up and a running start (Which colt had on that 50 yarder). It's about how quickly the ball gets there, especially in those tight 15~20 yard throws that have to be zipped in there with no chance for the defender to get a hand on the ball.
Watch Colt throw a 15~18 yard out then watch Brees throw the same pass. Colt does not have the same arm strength. When most people talk arm stregth, it's not about how far you can throw the ball with a wind up and a running start (Which colt had on that 50 yarder). It's about how quickly the ball gets there, especially in those tight 15~20 yard throws that have to be zipped in there with no chance for the defender to get a hand on the ball.
What you said. Most decent High School quarterbacks can toss the ball 50-60 yards with a full windup. If you watch the guys with real arm strength say Farve in his prime or Rothlisberger- on those 50 yard passes the ball gets there a hell of a lot faster. (Incidentally, RGIII's arm strength puts Colt's to shame, the kid can toss the rock 50 yards with a flick of the wrist.)
Not only do Colts passes not get there as fast, IMHO his deep accuracy is suspect.
Finally- exactly right- couple of weeks ago I did the Directv shortcuts of about 4 Browns games- and I don't know how many times Colts short outs got jumped by CBs, knocked down (or in a couple of cases sent back as pick sixes) because the ball lacked true velocity.
I said it before, and I'll say it again to those who are under the delusion Colt is somehow going to develop a Drew Brees arm. Colt will be 26 in seven months, and he's already had two stinking years of weight room training with the best instructors in Cleveland. Please get it through your heads even being generous, Colt is at about 98% of what he can physically develop into.
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It's not the same scenario with Cleveland. Put a QB on an offense that sucks, and he's going to perform below average.
I will stand by my view of a system making a QB. Not the other way around. Brees has recievers to throw to (ridiculous catch made for a 60 yard throw on that video), consistent running game and plenty of protection from that video posted.
Notice how his reciever GOES for the ball and beats the corner to the ball.The throw by Brees wasnt even good. How many recivers do the Browns have that are as aggressive as this running routes? maybe greg little, maybe.
Well I respect your opinion but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that if Brees, Brady or any of the young franchise were on this team even with the sub-par talent at the skills positions we'd be in the top 15 or so in offense. I've shown on here a few times that you don't need to go get mega, 1st round offense guys to have a dominate offense in the NFL, in facts it's quite the opposite. Most dominate offenses in the NFL (saints, giants, packers, patriots) all mostly have 3rd round guys or later at the skill positions. Look it up if you don't believe me, but it's true.
You can have all the players you want around a QB, but if he isn't franchise caliber it's not going to matter. You can hope that we load the offense with 1st and 2nd round talent we might be able to squeeze every ounce out of McCoy we can, but that's not good enough to win consistently. He's just not the guy at the end of the day.
Well I respect your opinion but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that if Brees, Brady or any of the young franchise were on this team even with the sub-par talent at the skills positions we'd be in the top 15 or so in offense. I've shown on here a few times that you don't need to go get mega, 1st round offense guys to have a dominate offense in the NFL, in facts it's quite the opposite. Most dominate offenses in the NFL (saints, giants, packers, patriots) all mostly have 3rd round guys or later at the skill positions. Look it up if you don't believe me, but it's true.
You can have all the players you want around a QB, but if he isn't franchise caliber it's not going to matter. You can hope that we load the offense with 1st and 2nd round talent we might be able to squeeze every ounce out of McCoy we can, but that's not good enough to win consistently. He's just not the guy at the end of the day.
Yup, look at the multiple Super Bowl winners- the common denominator is they ALL have\had outstanding qbs. Sure you can go one and done with a guy like Doug Williams or Rich Gannon- but it's not the recipe for long term success. Otto Graham retired in 1955, and the only thing we've had close to a franchise qb since was Bernie Kosar- and that was 20 years ago. I say it's about freaking time for another one no?
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Well I respect your opinion but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that if Brees, Brady or any of the young franchise were on this team even with the sub-par talent at the skills positions we'd be in the top 15 or so in offense. I've shown on here a few times that you don't need to go get mega, 1st round offense guys to have a dominate offense in the NFL, in facts it's quite the opposite. Most dominate offenses in the NFL (saints, giants, packers, patriots) all mostly have 3rd round guys or later at the skill positions. Look it up if you don't believe me, but it's true.
You can have all the players you want around a QB, but if he isn't franchise caliber it's not going to matter. You can hope that we load the offense with 1st and 2nd round talent we might be able to squeeze every ounce out of McCoy we can, but that's not good enough to win consistently. He's just not the guy at the end of the day.
Yup, look at the multiple Super Bowl winners- the common denominator is they ALL have\had outstanding qbs. Sure you can go one and done with a guy like Doug Williams or Rich Gannon- but it's not the recipe for long term success. Otto Graham retired in 1955, and the only thing we've had close to a franchise qb since was Bernie Kosar- and that was 20 years ago. I say it's about freaking time for another one no?
Yup, look at the multiple Super Bowl winners- the common denominator is they ALL have\had outstanding qbs. Sure you can go one and done with a guy like Doug Williams or Rich Gannon- but it's not the recipe for long term success. Otto Graham retired in 1955, and the only thing we've had close to a franchise qb since was Bernie Kosar- and that was 20 years ago. I say it's about freaking time for another one no?
I'd say this is the real reason im so icked about the RG3 vs. Colt debate is ppl think RG3 will not only be better than McCoy his rookie year, but will lead the team to a super bowl and be a franchise QB.
popycock.
Luck> RG3 (HEISMAN WINNER)
LUCK DIDNT WIN THE HEISMAN, AND STILL WILL BE PICKED BEFORE RG3. this is enough to not take a risk on him. he's not a "sure thing" like ppl believe on here! Its Quinn all over again!!!
Maybe I'm just tired of QBs thinking their hot shit come into CLE and be kicked out by the fans after 2 years cause they havent made the playoffs.
Its actually looking like CLE wont even draft RG3 and trade with another team for more picks and get Flynn, which is fine by me.
I am glad we could dispute this without name calling and hostile comments.
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Colt IMO has potentially better arm strength than Brees. did we forget he threw a couple of 50 yarders a couple years ago?....Sipe and Montana had spaghetti for arm strength...Chad Pennigton even worse....Im gonna laugh at all of you if Colt winds up on another team and finds success..hell...I'll still laugh if he gets his chance here...LOL
Brees 60 yard throw and on the money. Stopping making stuff up
Brees 60 yard throw and on the money. Stopping making stuff up
That was a nice heave too..now you quit makin stuff up
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
No, you are wrong, and if left to you the team would be condemned to the same shit we are enjoying now.
This issue of RG3 is not whether he fits or not. The issue is, until the Browns are involved on routine basis of playing among the teams who draft the hottest prospects, they aren't going to attract jack shit to the other positions.
The Browns need to draft RG3. That's all there is to it.
I agree. RG3 is the way to go. It will show that Lerner is willing to spend money on potential play makers. Colt doesn't show much promise in my opinion so lets get RG3 if we can. We can draft tackles and the like 3rd round.
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Yup, look at the multiple Super Bowl winners- the common denominator is they ALL have\had outstanding qbs. Sure you can go one and done with a guy like Doug Williams or Rich Gannon- but it's not the recipe for long term success. Otto Graham retired in 1955, and the only thing we've had close to a franchise qb since was Bernie Kosar- and that was 20 years ago. I say it's about freaking time for another one no?
I'd say this is the real reason im so icked about the RG3 vs. Colt debate is ppl think RG3 will not only be better than McCoy his rookie year, but will lead the team to a super bowl and be a franchise QB.
popycock.
Luck> RG3 (HEISMAN WINNER)
LUCK DIDNT WIN THE HEISMAN, AND STILL WILL BE PICKED BEFORE RG3. this is enough to not take a risk on him. he's not a "sure thing" like ppl believe on here! Its Quinn all over again!!!
Maybe I'm just tired of QBs thinking their hot shit come into CLE and be kicked out by the fans after 2 years cause they havent made the playoffs.
Its actually looking like CLE wont even draft RG3 and trade with another team for more picks and get Flynn, which is fine by me.
I am glad we could dispute this without name calling and hostile comments.
I'd say this is the real reason im so icked about the RG3 vs. Colt debate is ppl think RG3 will not only be better than McCoy his rookie year, but will lead the team to a super bowl and be a franchise QB.
popycock.
Luck> RG3 (HEISMAN WINNER)
LUCK DIDNT WIN THE HEISMAN, AND STILL WILL BE PICKED BEFORE RG3. this is enough to not take a risk on him. he's not a "sure thing" like ppl believe on here! Its Quinn all over again!!!
Maybe I'm just tired of QBs thinking their hot shit come into CLE and be kicked out by the fans after 2 years cause they havent made the playoffs.
Its actually looking like CLE wont even draft RG3 and trade with another team for more picks and get Flynn, which is fine by me.
I am glad we could dispute this without name calling and hostile comments.
thank the overseers above for some one with some brains.
I said it before, and I'll say it again to those who are under the delusion Colt is somehow going to develop a Drew Brees arm. Colt will be 26 in seven months, and he's already had two stinking years of weight room training with the best instructors in Cleveland. Please get it through your heads even being generous, Colt is at about 98% of what he can physically develop into.
man i don't think anybody here is saying that. but draft another QB this year? we making the playoffs or superbowl next year, with any new QB? NO. so why not draft to fill the GAPING holes that are all over the place on this team? everyone is so flippin NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW RG3 fans which does nothing but cut anyone's theory of continuity that people say we have to have right out the window. people didn't give it to mangini and now they've got colt's head on the chopping block. make up your flipping minds. give a guy time or throw him on the bus. a lot of things have to come together for anyone to get their job done properly. go to work anywhere and if your suppoting cast isn't there, you're the one on the hook.
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I'd say this is the real reason im so icked about the RG3 vs. Colt debate is ppl think RG3 will not only be better than McCoy his rookie year, but will lead the team to a super bowl and be a franchise QB.
popycock.
Luck> RG3 (HEISMAN WINNER)
LUCK DIDNT WIN THE HEISMAN, AND STILL WILL BE PICKED BEFORE RG3. this is enough to not take a risk on him. he's not a "sure thing" like ppl believe on here! Its Quinn all over again!!!
Maybe I'm just tired of QBs thinking their hot shit come into CLE and be kicked out by the fans after 2 years cause they havent made the playoffs.
Its actually looking like CLE wont even draft RG3 and trade with another team for more picks and get Flynn, which is fine by me.
I am glad we could dispute this without name calling and hostile comments.
thank the overseers above for some one with some brains.
I said it before, and I'll say it again to those who are under the delusion Colt is somehow going to develop a Drew Brees arm. Colt will be 26 in seven months, and he's already had two stinking years of weight room training with the best instructors in Cleveland. Please get it through your heads even being generous, Colt is at about 98% of what he can physically develop into.
man i don't think anybody here is saying that. but draft another QB this year? we making the playoffs or superbowl next year, with any new QB? NO. so why not draft to fill the GAPING holes that are all over the place on this team? everyone is so flippin NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW RG3 fans which does nothing but cut anyone's theory of continuity that people say we have to have right out the window. people didn't give it to mangini and now they've got colt's head on the chopping block. make up your flipping minds. give a guy time or throw him on the bus. a lot of things have to come together for anyone to get their job done properly. go to work anywhere and if your suppoting cast isn't there, you're the one on the hook.
thank the overseers above for some one with some brains.
man i don't think anybody here is saying that. but draft another QB this year? we making the playoffs or superbowl next year, with any new QB? NO. so why not draft to fill the GAPING holes that are all over the place on this team? everyone is so flippin NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW RG3 fans which does nothing but cut anyone's theory of continuity that people say we have to have right out the window. people didn't give it to mangini and now they've got colt's head on the chopping block. make up your flipping minds. give a guy time or throw him on the bus. a lot of things have to come together for anyone to get their job done properly. go to work anywhere and if your suppoting cast isn't there, you're the one on the hook.
Instant gratification is all fans want, and I understand their impatience. We are ALL going through it.
But to put 75% of the blame for the lackluster season of 11 on Colt, is not a correct way of evaluating the team, especially as a whole.
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thank the overseers above for some one with some brains.
man i don't think anybody here is saying that. but draft another QB this year? we making the playoffs or superbowl next year, with any new QB? NO. so why not draft to fill the GAPING holes that are all over the place on this team? everyone is so flippin NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW RG3 fans which does nothing but cut anyone's theory of continuity that people say we have to have right out the window. people didn't give it to mangini and now they've got colt's head on the chopping block. make up your flipping minds. give a guy time or throw him on the bus. a lot of things have to come together for anyone to get their job done properly. go to work anywhere and if your suppoting cast isn't there, you're the one on the hook.
Instant gratification is all fans want, and I understand their impatience. We are ALL going through it.
But to put 75% of the blame for the lackluster season of 11 on Colt, is not a correct way of evaluating the team, especially as a whole.
Instant gratification is all fans want, and I understand their impatience. We are ALL going through it.
But to put 75% of the blame for the lackluster season of 11 on Colt, is not a correct way of evaluating the team, especially as a whole.
I don't think it's a matter of blaming Colt, at least not from my perspective. Im on the RG3 bandwagon simply because I see him as a rare talent that could help our franchise both in the short and long term. Its not a matter of need, it is an opportunity to bring in a huge upgrade at an extremely important position. Colt wasn't drafted to be our savior, merely a stopgap until we identify our guy. Ideally he would've shown that he is up to the task but that has yet to happen. I know he's had a rough go of as far as the coaching position but you don't pass up the opportunity to get a potential franchise QB because your 3rd round QB from two years ago hasn't been given a perfect shot.
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Instant gratification is all fans want, and I understand their impatience. We are ALL going through it.
But to put 75% of the blame for the lackluster season of 11 on Colt, is not a correct way of evaluating the team, especially as a whole.
I don't think it's a matter of blaming Colt, at least not from my perspective. Im on the RG3 bandwagon simply because I see him as a rare talent that could help our franchise both in the short and long term. Its not a matter of need, it is an opportunity to bring in a huge upgrade at an extremely important position. Colt wasn't drafted to be our savior, merely a stopgap until we identify our guy. Ideally he would've shown that he is up to the task but that has yet to happen. I know he's had a rough go of as far as the coaching position but you don't pass up the opportunity to get a potential franchise QB because your 3rd round QB from two years ago hasn't been given a perfect shot.
I don't think it's a matter of blaming Colt, at least not from my perspective. Im on the RG3 bandwagon simply because I see him as a rare talent that could help our franchise both in the short and long term. Its not a matter of need, it is an opportunity to bring in a huge upgrade at an extremely important position. Colt wasn't drafted to be our savior, merely a stopgap until we identify our guy. Ideally he would've shown that he is up to the task but that has yet to happen. I know he's had a rough go of as far as the coaching position but you don't pass up the opportunity to get a potential franchise QB because your 3rd round QB from two years ago hasn't been given a perfect shot.
You have made better points than any RG3 bandwaggoner has yet. I see him as an outstanding athlete of course, but NOT as an NFL qb.
Like you said, it would be a good upgrade, if he turns out to be what he's cracked up to be. But I'd rather have positions that make Colt better, as opposed to starting over with another rookie qb. It's an endless rinse cycle for us Browns fans when this shite happens.
But, there is the chance that he's good and turns out to be alright. Give our offense what it needs tho, and I'm sure you'll see Colt really isn't that bad. With good recievers and consistency at the RB position, Colt could run this offense like clockwork. Last year just didn't have ANY consistency at ANY position on offense, not even the offensive line!
The WCO is about establishing a rhythm offensively, and progressing down the field a down at a time, relying on short throws, YAC, throws to the RB, and catching the D off guard running the ball efficiently and unexpectedly. Last year, how could we even do 2 of those things on a consistenT basis every game? Well, we couldn't.
You have good arguments, like each side does. The colt side is about consistency, while the RG3 side is seeing a new guy at QB and what he can do. I'm just one of the fans that's tired of the second side and it's tendency to just bring up more questions than to answer them.
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Zombo said:
HIs arm is not a terrible strong one which means he has to beat you with his brains and his accuracy and I just didn't see any indications that he is that kind of Quarterback.Not seeing it with Colt. I don't think a lot of people are, outside of those emotionally attached to him.
See that's where we differ... I saw the flash of what Colt might be in 2010. In particular in the Jets game which I am sure you will agree we should have won. What I saw in 2010 was a Sipe-like leader, who had the capacity to take us to another level albeit with admittedly limited physical tools... also Sipe-like...
In 2011 I saw an uncertain QB struggling with a system as well as a lack of weapons. Now maybe Colt is simply not a WCO QB, but do you really think RG going from a spread to the WCO will be a seemless transition?
And please don't dismiss me as emotionally attached to Colt... not the case. I am simply not sold on RG and am unwilling to risk a #4 on him, let alone pay more to trade up for him. This is not to say I believe Colt is a better prospect than RG.
Zombo said:
What?
Now that I agree with...
TypicalBrowns,
Couldn't have said it better myself.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Zombo said:
HIs arm is not a terrible strong one which means he has to beat you with his brains and his accuracy and I just didn't see any indications that he is that kind of Quarterback.Not seeing it with Colt. I don't think a lot of people are, outside of those emotionally attached to him.
See that's where we differ... I saw the flash of what Colt might be in 2010. In particular in the Jets game which I am sure you will agree we should have won. What I saw in 2010 was a Sipe-like leader, who had the capacity to take us to another level albeit with admittedly limited physical tools... also Sipe-like...
In 2011 I saw an uncertain QB struggling with a system as well as a lack of weapons. Now maybe Colt is simply not a WCO QB, but do you really think RG going from a spread to the WCO will be a seemless transition?
And please don't dismiss me as emotionally attached to Colt... not the case. I am simply not sold on RG and am unwilling to risk a #4 on him, let alone pay more to trade up for him. This is not to say I believe Colt is a better prospect than RG.
Zombo said:
What?
Now that I agree with...
TypicalBrowns,
Couldn't have said it better myself.
See that's where we differ... I saw the flash of what Colt might be in 2010. In particular in the Jets game which I am sure you will agree we should have won. What I saw in 2010 was a Sipe-like leader, who had the capacity to take us to another level albeit with admittedly limited physical tools... also Sipe-like...
In 2011 I saw an uncertain QB struggling with a system as well as a lack of weapons. Now maybe Colt is simply not a WCO QB, but do you really think RG going from a spread to the WCO will be a seemless transition?
And please don't dismiss me as emotionally attached to Colt... not the case. I am simply not sold on RG and am unwilling to risk a #4 on him, let alone pay more to trade up for him. This is not to say I believe Colt is a better prospect than RG.
Now that I agree with...
TypicalBrowns,
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Yes, I saw that flash from Colt in 2010 too. But what concerns me is was that just a "flash" like we saw from Anderson in 2007, and then teams figured him out?
I'm not emotionally attached to either Colt or RGIII- really. I like to think I see a potential franchise qb in Griffin. But if the Redskins want to make a truly stupid give up the ranch deal to land RGIII, they can have him. In that case we take Blackmon LOL, and maybe Floyd too- and get a stud RT in the second round.
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I don't see how more talent around Colt is going to make him able to
1. Throw deep passes that don't wobble.
2. Throw deep passes receivers don't have to wait for.
3. Throw passes that lead his receivers to give them an opportunity to get yards after the catch.
4. Throw passes to the correct shoulder
Hell it's hard not to like the underdog goofy looking scrawny polite southern boy who is tough as balls- but it just ain't happening.
The only thing I ever seen from McCoy is when he completed the pass to Moore over Revis.
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I don't see how more talent around Colt is going to make him able to
1. Throw deep passes that don't wobble.
2. Throw deep passes receivers don't have to wait for.
3. Throw passes that lead his receivers to give them an opportunity to get yards after the catch.
4. Throw passes to the correct shoulder
Hell it's hard not to like the underdog goofy looking scrawny polite southern boy who is tough as balls- but it just ain't happening.
The only thing I ever seen from McCoy is when he completed the pass to Moore over Revis.
I don't see how more talent around Colt is going to make him able to
1. Throw deep passes that don't wobble.
2. Throw deep passes receivers don't have to wait for.
3. Throw passes that lead his receivers to give them an opportunity to get yards after the catch.
4. Throw passes to the correct shoulder
Hell it's hard not to like the underdog goofy looking scrawny polite southern boy who is tough as balls- but it just ain't happening.
The only thing I ever seen from McCoy is when he completed the pass to Moore over Revis.
Your post makes it look like he did those things on every play, but he didn't.
sure he had a few wobbly balls some games, and there were some times he didnt hit some wrs in the right shoulder.
Colt did show signs of brilliance this year tho, the drive to beat Miami was something (yes it was Miami, but still, who jumped out of their seat screaming like a little girl when Momass came up with that?)
Colt's performance playing Tennessee, although losing to big plays, Colt went 40-61 and broke a Browns QB record(kosar's or sipe's?) for completions
Colt demonstrated his ability to cram the ball into places against PITT the 2nd game, til he was knocked out of course, but he did make some insane throws to recievers who werent even open.
He can scramble like a MF, and take broken plays and make them into a gain consistenly. How many times did a play break down and Colt scrambled to the right or left, finding a reception or taking it for a few yards himself?
Have you seen DTs and LBs try to catch him in the backfield? And 8 times out of 10 he literally sprints away from them, and they cant catch him? He's got some wheels once he's running for his life.
He is still, for as bad as our recieving core was, very smart with the football. The times he threw picks, they were only one a game.
Seeing Seneca play the last games reaffirmed my confidence in Colt also. A WCO veteran looked only slightly better than Colt who played with the WCO for only one year.
And learning an offense is apart of it also, which Colt needs more time to do.
Colt, with all the chips down last year, and with only Little, Cribbs, Norwood, and Hillis as guys who could even help the offense get CLOSE to scoring,he still tried to make something out of it, and that alone should give him one more year to show what he's got when everyone is on the same page.
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^exactly. who cares if the guys a polite southern guy, hell that part of him is a weakness on the field IMO.
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See that's where we differ... I saw the flash of what Colt might be in 2010. In particular in the Jets game which I am sure you will agree we should have won. What I saw in 2010 was a Sipe-like leader, who had the capacity to take us to another level albeit with admittedly limited physical tools... also Sipe-like...
In 2011 I saw an uncertain QB struggling with a system as well as a lack of weapons. Now maybe Colt is simply not a WCO QB, but do you really think RG going from a spread to the WCO will be a seemless transition?
And please don't dismiss me as emotionally attached to Colt... not the case. I am simply not sold on RG and am unwilling to risk a #4 on him, let alone pay more to trade up for him. This is not to say I believe Colt is a better prospect than RG.
Now that I agree with...
TypicalBrowns,
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Yes, I saw that flash from Colt in 2010 too. But what concerns me is was that just a "flash" like we saw from Anderson in 2007, and then teams figured him out?
I'm not emotionally attached to either Colt or RGIII- really. I like to think I see a potential franchise qb in Griffin. But if the Redskins want to make a truly stupid give up the ranch deal to land RGIII, they can have him. In that case we take Blackmon LOL, and maybe Floyd too- and get a stud RT in the second round.
TypicalBrowns,
Another quality post.
Especially reflected on your Colt v. Seneca observation.
Yes, I saw that flash from Colt in 2010 too. But what concerns me is was that just a "flash" like we saw from Anderson in 2007, and then teams figured him out?
I hear you, but I don't see any Anderson in Colt.
For the record, because I wasn't posting here back then, I wanted to package trade Derek and Braylon after their miracle season. I knew I had both of them figured out and just thought they deserved to be together somewhere else.
^exactly. who cares if the guys a polite southern guy, hell that part of him is a weakness on the field IMO.
I have no idea what guy you are watching. I've seen a take charge leader in the huddle and on the sideline. Getting in faces may not be his style, but it doesn't have to be.
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