The Running Back Conundrum (Richardson Thread)
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Remember Peterson was a super stud but he still fell to 7 or 8. So many guys you can get from later rounds plus the fact the RB's don't typically have long careers. Honestly I think Blackmon is overrated, not that he won't be good, but he is not that big and isn't a threat in the vertical game. Look at his yards per catch, not impressive 12.6 2011, 16.1 2010. I think he is another Crabtree type. If you draft a guy that high he needs to be able to threaten deep, I just don't see it. There is an obvious pick here. A premium position that is hard to find outside of the top picks. The answer is CB and in Morris Claiborne. Stud CB's rarely fall and the ones that are drafted high don't dissapoint as much. With him and Haden the Browns would arguably have the best tandem in the league. I know playmakers are sorely needed on offense, but when you are drafting as high as 4, you have a lot of holes and you need to get the most value out of the pick and that is with Claiborne in my opinion. The draft is deep at WR and Rb's come in all rounds. With the second pick in the 1st round you could look to take Wright/Floyd/Hill or the best offensive player available maybe even one of the tackles if they fall. You got to be looking for the long haul, take the value that is there. If you are close to contending then you can go after need more, but where the Browns are you need to concentrate on getting the most talent.
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Taking Claiborne is not a bad choice either. Him then Floyd or Hill and Doug Martin in the 2nd would be a pretty soild draft. Go O line next pick or Lb. I just really like that we have so many picks in the first few rounds. God only knows whats going to happen, im just excited again to see who we pick.
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I just think shut down corners are hard to come by, and with Haden you can really sell out and send more guys because you know they can be trusted in man. Having two elite corners gives the D coordinator a lot more options. Not to say Richardson isn't nasty, but if you look over the last 10 years when was the last RB picked in the top 5 who lived up to expectations? How many CB's in the top 5 have busted? How many WR's?
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Once again, that debate the same with all positions excluding Qb and LT. What im saying is if we were picking number 6 right now would we take TR if he was there, yes we would, because we fn need him badly, all those other rbs in the draft are not Likely to be there when we pick in the draft, so what do you do then.
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I just think shut down corners are hard to come by, and with Haden you can really sell out and send more guys because you know they can be trusted in man. Having two elite corners gives the D coordinator a lot more options. Not to say Richardson isn't nasty, but if you look over the last 10 years when was the last RB picked in the top 5 who lived up to expectations? How many CB's in the top 5 have busted? How many WR's?
I just think shut down corners are hard to come by, and with Haden you can really sell out and send more guys because you know they can be trusted in man. Having two elite corners gives the D coordinator a lot more options. Not to say Richardson isn't nasty, but if you look over the last 10 years when was the last RB picked in the top 5 who lived up to expectations? How many CB's in the top 5 have busted? How many WR's?
Totally agree Claiborn is the "safest" pick- should we decide to go that route. I'll take him or Blackmon over TR. We can go RB (or RT) shopping in the second round.
Only thing that worries me is both the Jets and Eagles had two stud CBs- and didn't make the playoffs.
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I just think shut down corners are hard to come by, and with Haden you can really sell out and send more guys because you know they can be trusted in man. Having two elite corners gives the D coordinator a lot more options. Not to say Richardson isn't nasty, but if you look over the last 10 years when was the last RB picked in the top 5 who lived up to expectations? How many CB's in the top 5 have busted? How many WR's?
Totally agree Claiborn is the "safest" pick- should we decide to go that route. I'll take him or Blackmon over TR. We can go RB (or RT) shopping in the second round.
Only thing that worries me is both the Jets and Eagles had two stud CBs- and didn't make the playoffs.
Totally agree Claiborn is the "safest" pick- should we decide to go that route. I'll take him or Blackmon over TR. We can go RB (or RT) shopping in the second round.
Only thing that worries me is both the Jets and Eagles had two stud CBs- and didn't make the playoffs.
Yeah, and the Browns won't make the playoffs either most likely but it wont be because of the the CB's. Philly had an O-line coach being the D-coordinator, Asomugha was overrated in some ways because he only can play man, and of course Philly had him playing zone. Cromartie is not in anyway a lock down corner of the same pedigree as Haden and Claiborne. He is a ball hawk and a good returner, but his tackling and coverage is suspect at times. Stud corners don't get traded for conditional 2nd round picks. But the Jets didn't make the playoffs because they can't run the ball like they used to, don't rush the passer with regularity, Mark Sanchez, and a mess of a locker room.
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Well, if you dig hard enough, one can find a contrarian point of view. Notice what I highlighted in red?
Put Richardson behind McCoy, and you'll see the same thing we saw last year. Teams will load the box, stuff Richardson, and plant McCoy on his ass before he can take a three step drop.
BTW, Cosell's talking out his ass if he thinks Richardson is the best player in this draft- ahead of Andrew Luck. Richardson's being talked up as the best RB since Peterson? To rate him ahead of Luck, you'd have to say Trent is the best RB prospect since Walter Payton\Jim Brown- and he isn't, sorry to say.
Richardson reminds me a lot of Ray Rice, and the Ravens haven't made the Super Bowl yet with him on the roster.
But knowing what you know now would you of taken Ray Rice in the draft if you could of ?
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I just think shut down corners are hard to come by, and with Haden you can really sell out and send more guys because you know they can be trusted in man. Having two elite corners gives the D coordinator a lot more options. Not to say Richardson isn't nasty, but if you look over the last 10 years when was the last RB picked in the top 5 who lived up to expectations? How many CB's in the top 5 have busted? How many WR's?
I just think shut down corners are hard to come by, and with Haden you can really sell out and send more guys because you know they can be trusted in man. Having two elite corners gives the D coordinator a lot more options. Not to say Richardson isn't nasty, but if you look over the last 10 years when was the last RB picked in the top 5 who lived up to expectations? How many CB's in the top 5 have busted? How many WR's?
2011: Green and Peterson were WR and CB taken in the draft. One year is too early to say but Green impressed and Peterson was suspect on defense and great at returning.
2010: No CB in the top 5 but there was Eric Berry FS who has done well but tore an ACL. Haden at 7 and is considered the best CB in the AFCN.
2009: None in the top 5 but you had Heyward-Bay and Crabtree WR's taken top 10. I would say neither have lived up to the draft slots as of right now.
2008: Darren McFadden RB was taken #4. HE is one of the NFL's most dominate rushers but he can't stay healthy. Had injury problems in college as well.
2007: The Year. Johnson taken #2, most dominate receiver in the game today. Adrian Peterson taken at 7, the best rusher in the game today and up until the end of this season played without any serious injury. Ted Ginn Jr taken at 10. Traded for a 4th round pick and is now exclusively a return guy. Landrey S drafted in top 10 hasn't faired well either.
2006: Reggie Bush. Obviously didn't live up to the hype but did just record his first 1000+ yard rushing season.
2005: The year of shit. RB: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams. WR: Braylon Edwards, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams. CB: Packman Jones. All in the top 10 and in they were not a complete bust they had serious trouble with the law.
From what I get out of this, regardless of the position it is going to be hit or miss. People love to use 2007 as an example for success for drafting a WR and failure for drafting a RB. I don't think so. Where Johnson had his rookie curve to deal with and not having a at least decent QB, Peterson came right out of the gates to help his team and to this date has more total yards and TD's and he has helped his team to more play off appearances as well.
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But knowing what you know now would you of taken Ray Rice in the draft if you could of ?
Well, PG has his head so far up Richardson's butt- he's not seeing things clearly- so this is the last time I'll respond to one of his gushers over Trent. I'm sure I could just as easily dig up 10 articles showing drafting a running back in the top 10 in today's NFL is a stupid idea.
That said- will I be upset if the Browns do draft Richardson with the #4? Of course not. However, MHO is we'd be better served getting a WR (or maybe even take a humongous risk on Tannehill) if H&H are certain Colt isn't the qb solution we've been looking for.
Now to answer your question about Ray Rice- Yes, but not with the 4th overall pick. For a ton of reasons I've been harping on for the last month or two. The only way I use a top 10 pick on a RB is if I see a certain HOFer. And Richardson ain't it.
One last time.
1) Let's look at HOF running backs shall we?... Career rushing leaders.... Top 10 all HOFers, and the two that aren't are locks. Almost all drafted in the first round. Other than Emmett Smith, who was blessed with playing with Troy Aikman & Bus Bettis- ditto Steelers, see many multiple Super Bowl Champions out of the bunch? Brown, Payton, Sanders, and Tomlinson- arguably four of the best that ever played the game have 2 rings between the four of them- and Walter's was as much due to the stud defense the Bears had that year.
2) Guys like Jones-Drew and Peterson- stud running backs, have had minimal impact on their teams overall won-loss record.
3) Take a look at the leading rushers in 2011... 2011 NFL Rushing Leaders... Ray Rice, Jones Drew, Frank Gore, LeSean McCoy got drafted in the second round- so did Corey Dillon and he had a pretty decent career no? Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
4) The Super Bowl winner (Giants) loser (Patriots) and arguably best team of 2011 (Packers) ALL did it with lousy running games, and great quarterbacking.
5) Finally and most telling reason for not drafting Richardson- it's H&H's and Shurmur's WCO. The 49ers won their Super Bowls with Roger Craig, who will never sniff the HOF. I couldn't even tell you who Favre had @ RB when the Packers won theirs without looking it up.
6) PS I noticed Tim Tebow was 28th in rushing. Maybe we should have offered the Broncos our low 4th round pick, and converted him to tailback.
Gentlemen, I rest my case.
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Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
Mr. Hoorta*************************************
"cough" Tom Brady "cough" late round pick 6th round, 199th overall "cough"
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Now, just why do you think I wish to be vexed by your conundrum?
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Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
Mr. Hoorta*************************************
"cough" Tom Brady "cough" late round pick 6th round, 199th overall "cough"
Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
Mr. Hoorta*************************************
"cough" Tom Brady "cough" late round pick 6th round, 199th overall "cough"
The real conundrum...I'm getting tired of the don't draft a running back in the top 10 crowd. Lemme educate a bit.
First just because a UFA pans out or a 5th round pick pans out a position doesn't allow you to make a general rule. So much goes into this- staying healthy? system? supporting cast?
This is now more of passing league- TRUE...BUT we aren't the Saints or other teams that are putting the ball in the air so much that its just a luxury to have a back. Can we all agree our offense- and what it is striving to be and as offensive as it was last year- tried...tired some more and tried until it hurt our eyes to run the ball. Remember the Seattle game...31 carries for Hardesty- would have loved to have a back like Richardson carry it that many times- we would be much better off.
The general opinion out there...there are four elite prospects- 2 QBs, a LT and a RB. Every other guy grades out a bit lower than some of your past top 5- top 10 guys.
T Richardson reminds me so much of Emmitt Smith. Someone said Ray Rice- but i disagree- Ray Rice is gonna go 80 yards on you but go for 1,2,2 and 3 yards the carries before. T Richardson is a 5-8 yard back that is gonna hit you for a 30-40 yarder if you try to arm tackle. Folks can point to his speed but watch the highlights- he's patient let's his blocks set up and then he's very decisive (one cut guy). You see a ton of defenders arm tackle him and lose the battle- that tells you the guy has some wiggle and he's pretty strong. I'll take him.
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Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
Mr. Hoorta*************************************
"cough" Tom Brady "cough" late round pick 6th round, 199th overall "cough"
The real conundrum...I'm getting tired of the don't draft a running back in the top 10 crowd. Lemme educate a bit.
First just because a UFA pans out or a 5th round pick pans out a position doesn't allow you to make a general rule. So much goes into this- staying healthy? system? supporting cast?
This is now more of passing league- TRUE...BUT we aren't the Saints or other teams that are putting the ball in the air so much that its just a luxury to have a back. Can we all agree our offense- and what it is striving to be and as offensive as it was last year- tried...tired some more and tried until it hurt our eyes to run the ball. Remember the Seattle game...31 carries for Hardesty- would have loved to have a back like Richardson carry it that many times- we would be much better off.
The general opinion out there...there are four elite prospects- 2 QBs, a LT and a RB. Every other guy grades out a bit lower than some of your past top 5- top 10 guys.
T Richardson reminds me so much of Emmitt Smith. Someone said Ray Rice- but i disagree- Ray Rice is gonna go 80 yards on you but go for 1,2,2 and 3 yards the carries before. T Richardson is a 5-8 yard back that is gonna hit you for a 30-40 yarder if you try to arm tackle. Folks can point to his speed but watch the highlights- he's patient let's his blocks set up and then he's very decisive (one cut guy). You see a ton of defenders arm tackle him and lose the battle- that tells you the guy has some wiggle and he's pretty strong. I'll take him.
The real conundrum...I'm getting tired of the don't draft a running back in the top 10 crowd. Lemme educate a bit.
First just because a UFA pans out or a 5th round pick pans out a position doesn't allow you to make a general rule. So much goes into this- staying healthy? system? supporting cast?
This is now more of passing league- TRUE...BUT we aren't the Saints or other teams that are putting the ball in the air so much that its just a luxury to have a back. Can we all agree our offense- and what it is striving to be and as offensive as it was last year- tried...tired some more and tried until it hurt our eyes to run the ball. Remember the Seattle game...31 carries for Hardesty- would have loved to have a back like Richardson carry it that many times- we would be much better off.
The general opinion out there...there are four elite prospects- 2 QBs, a LT and a RB. Every other guy grades out a bit lower than some of your past top 5- top 10 guys.
T Richardson reminds me so much of Emmitt Smith. Someone said Ray Rice- but i disagree- Ray Rice is gonna go 80 yards on you but go for 1,2,2 and 3 yards the carries before. T Richardson is a 5-8 yard back that is gonna hit you for a 30-40 yarder if you try to arm tackle. Folks can point to his speed but watch the highlights- he's patient let's his blocks set up and then he's very decisive (one cut guy). You see a ton of defenders arm tackle him and lose the battle- that tells you the guy has some wiggle and he's pretty strong. I'll take him.
In some earlier threads I pointed out how, historically, you are far less likely to have a bust on your hands with a high RB pick than you are a high QB pick.
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Trent Richardson Enjoys PreDraft Visit to Cleveland Browns
by Tommy King • Apr 4, 2012 5:50 PM CDT
The Cleveland Browns hosted running back Trent Richardson and quarterback Brandon Weeden on predraft visits to their training facility in Berea. Via Richardson's Twitter account:
Trent Richardson@TrentRich03
"Had a great time in Cleveland. Its in God's hands now"
4 Apr 12 Reply
Retweet
Favorite
Browns officials took Richardson and Weeden out to dinner on Sunday, then the players were interviewed and underwent physical examinations. The players are not allowed to workout for teams on predraft visits, though teams an schedule private workouts with them.
More after the jump...
Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon, Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill and LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne are also expected to visit the Browns this week.
Richardson could be the favorite to be selected by the Browns with the fourth pick after blowing away Browns scouts during Alabama's Pro Day.
For more news, analysis, and discussion on the Browns, visit Dawgs By Nature. For all your draft and free agency news, be sure to check out SB Nation's NFL news hub. For analysis of the draft, visit Mocking The Draft.
......I thought he didn't have a twitter account?
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
I guess he started one up again or his agent told him to(seems legit, lot of family photos)... seems like he has great character and has grown up quick...heck he got a girl pregnant when he was 15, kids either kill you, make your hair turn grey or fall out, but i guess with him he took that oppurtunity and made the best of it.
If we don't pick him up i really don't think i would look at a back till the 4th round (turbin, gray) then bryce brown.
this is what I'm hoping for
Blackmon, Jefferies, Adams, Mcnutt, Turbin, T. Johnson, Dwight Jones, Bentley Malik Jackson, Jarius Wright, Bryce Brown Danny Coale, A. Neugebauer
only running back i have in my mock
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Philadelphia, PA (Sports Network) - This isn't the best of times to be an NFL running back.
The golden age of one of football's most glorious positions has come and gone, with today's intricate pass-happy offenses, multiple-receiver sets and rules changes intended to encourage a shootout philosophy having rendered the spirit-breaking, 25-carry-a-game backfield punisher of days past a relative dinosaur of the modern pro offense. Though players such as Baltimore's Ray Rice and Chicago's Matt Forte are examples that the every-down back isn't yet completely extinct, the reluctance of their respective teams to offer long- term contracts this offseason only reinforces the belief that the two standouts are part of a dying breed.
The gradual devaluing of running backs was further emphasized at the 2011 NFL Draft, where former Heisman Trophy winner Mark Ingram was the lone member of the fraternity selected in the first round -- and that didn't come until the 28th overall pick. Only one has been taken in the top 10 of the last three drafts, when Buffalo nabbed C.J. Spiller ninth overall out of a 2009 group in which the best running back -- Houston's Arian Foster -- entered the league as a college free agent.
There are always exceptions to every rule, however. Like Trent Richardson.
Ingram's onetime University of Alabama teammate has forced NFL general managers and personnel evaluators to question the trendy train of thought that a capable running back can be mined in the draft's later rounds (or even beyond, in Foster's case). Blessed with an exceptional combination of power, speed and desire, the 2011 Doak Walker Award recipient is unquestionably one of this season's most talented prospects -- and perhaps the best running back out of the college ranks since Adrian Peterson, who's more than justified the No. 7 overall choice the Minnesota Vikings spent on him in 2007.
Richardson's hard-to-find set of skills should make him a very enticing option for either Cleveland or Tampa Bay, two teams with glaring needs for a bell-cow rusher that own the fourth and fifth picks in the upcoming draft, though there's still a good chance he joins Ingram as the only first-round running back of his class. In fact, the 2012 draft could shape up as a virtual carbon copy of last year's pertaining to the position.
Four running backs came off the board in the second round of the 2011 draft, with three more taken in the third and six in the fourth. Virginia Tech's David Wilson, Boise State's Doug Martin and Miami-Florida's Lamar Miller are all widely considered potential top 50 candidates, and the depth of this year's crop rivals that of the previous one.
A more in-depth look at this year's running back cast can be found below, continuing The Sports Network's preview series of the 2012 NFL Draft:
1) TRENT RICHARDSON, ALABAMA
Height: 5-foot-9; Weight: 228; Age (as of Sept. 1): 21
After sharing time with 2011 first-round pick Mark Ingram in a loaded Alabama backfield his first two seasons, Richardson finally had a featured role last fall and showed just why he was one of the nation's premier prospects coming out of high school. The powerful 21-year-old rushed for nearly 1,700 yards and scored 24 total touchdowns to help the Crimson Tide to a second BCS championship in three years, despite being the focus of opposing defenses that constantly stacked the line of scrimmage to try to neutralize him. A Florida state weightlifting champion in high school, Richardson's tremendous strength and low center of gravity allows him to routinely break tackles between the tackles, and he also has the speed to break containment outside for big gains. He's also a solid receiver and willing pass blocker who relishes physicality, which may have some scouts concerned about his long-term durability down the road.
PROJECTION: As complete a back as you'll find and with a genuine passion for the game, Richardson stands head and shoulders among his incoming peers and merits a top five overall selection. Could slide a bit if both Cleveland (picking fourth) and Tampa Bay (fifth) decide to pass, but still won't last to the second half of the first round.
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...for those who would rather pass on the TRuth, there are other runningbacks listed in the link.
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Trent Richardson Enjoys PreDraft Visit to Cleveland Browns
by Tommy King • Apr 4, 2012 5:50 PM CDT
The Cleveland Browns hosted running back Trent Richardson and quarterback Brandon Weeden on predraft visits to their training facility in Berea. Via Richardson's Twitter account:
Trent Richardson@TrentRich03
"Had a great time in Cleveland. Its in God's hands now"
4 Apr 12 Reply
Retweet
Favorite
Browns officials took Richardson and Weeden out to dinner on Sunday, then the players were interviewed and underwent physical examinations. The players are not allowed to workout for teams on predraft visits, though teams an schedule private workouts with them.
More after the jump...
Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon, Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill and LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne are also expected to visit the Browns this week.
Richardson could be the favorite to be selected by the Browns with the fourth pick after blowing away Browns scouts during Alabama's Pro Day.
For more news, analysis, and discussion on the Browns, visit Dawgs By Nature. For all your draft and free agency news, be sure to check out SB Nation's NFL news hub. For analysis of the draft, visit Mocking The Draft.
......I thought he didn't have a twitter account?
The Cleveland Browns hosted running back Trent Richardson and quarterback Brandon Weeden on predraft visits to their training facility in Berea.
What do Richardson and Weeden have in common?
Neither will be picked by the Browns...
Wonder where they went to dinner? Maybe one of Michael Simons' places???
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I guess my problem with Browns- we don't have 1 unit that you have to game plan for. Take that back- a few years ago our Special teams return unit was feared- what happened...we saw directional kicks and we usually had great field position. Cribbs single handedly kept us in games.
A few weeks ago posters made the argument- take Claiborne and make our defense nasty. My argument to this- love the idea of doing that by the way- we don't have any game changers on that side of the ball. I don't think guys like Ingram, Coples and Claiborne are game changers. You pick 4- you need a game changer. If a guy like Mario Williams was in this class I would want him over Richardson. We give Hardesty the ball 31 times against Seattle, Hillis had a ton of carries in our win over Indy. The rules and flow of the game may have changed teams but the Browns seem relatively unchanged unless Drew Brees walks through our doors.
I hope the Browns draft Richardson. Just as the Chargers drafted LT in 2001 and not Anthony Thomas in the 2nd round or like Minnesota drafted Peterson instead of taking Kenny Irons in the 2nd round. As many examples I can come up with like this, someone can counter with a Gore pick in the 3rd round, or Terell Davis in the 6th round. So its pointless to slot players based on position- just evaluate the talent.
We talk about drafting Claiborne YET we ignore that the CB being a position with all the rule changes and PI calls. Its hard to be dominate at the position. Have rules changed to make running the ball harder? No. We just have QBs that air the ball out and other athletes playing Qb now that you can use in the running game making offensive gameplans change. I hope we stay away from this trend AT LEAST THIS SEASON and not reach on a guy like Tannehill who I'd bet is not the next Brees.
Selective arguments are being made that's all I'm saying.
I say take Richardson- bring a RT in with 22nd pick and let's make our run game and short screen pass game something to be feared.
GOD DAMN I CAN'T WAIT FOR HIM TO SNAP THAT TOOTHPICK HARRISON!!! GET EM BOY! SICK EM! 
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