The Running Back Conundrum (Richardson Thread)
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But knowing what you know now would you of taken Ray Rice in the draft if you could of ?
Well, PG has his head so far up Richardson's butt- he's not seeing things clearly- so this is the last time I'll respond to one of his gushers over Trent. I'm sure I could just as easily dig up 10 articles showing drafting a running back in the top 10 in today's NFL is a stupid idea.
That said- will I be upset if the Browns do draft Richardson with the #4? Of course not. However, MHO is we'd be better served getting a WR (or maybe even take a humongous risk on Tannehill) if H&H are certain Colt isn't the qb solution we've been looking for.
Now to answer your question about Ray Rice- Yes, but not with the 4th overall pick. For a ton of reasons I've been harping on for the last month or two. The only way I use a top 10 pick on a RB is if I see a certain HOFer. And Richardson ain't it.
One last time.
1) Let's look at HOF running backs shall we?... Career rushing leaders.... Top 10 all HOFers, and the two that aren't are locks. Almost all drafted in the first round. Other than Emmett Smith, who was blessed with playing with Troy Aikman & Bus Bettis- ditto Steelers, see many multiple Super Bowl Champions out of the bunch? Brown, Payton, Sanders, and Tomlinson- arguably four of the best that ever played the game have 2 rings between the four of them- and Walter's was as much due to the stud defense the Bears had that year.
2) Guys like Jones-Drew and Peterson- stud running backs, have had minimal impact on their teams overall won-loss record.
3) Take a look at the leading rushers in 2011... 2011 NFL Rushing Leaders... Ray Rice, Jones Drew, Frank Gore, LeSean McCoy got drafted in the second round- so did Corey Dillon and he had a pretty decent career no? Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
4) The Super Bowl winner (Giants) loser (Patriots) and arguably best team of 2011 (Packers) ALL did it with lousy running games, and great quarterbacking.
5) Finally and most telling reason for not drafting Richardson- it's H&H's and Shurmur's WCO. The 49ers won their Super Bowls with Roger Craig, who will never sniff the HOF. I couldn't even tell you who Favre had @ RB when the Packers won theirs without looking it up.
6) PS I noticed Tim Tebow was 28th in rushing. Maybe we should have offered the Broncos our low 4th round pick, and converted him to tailback.
Gentlemen, I rest my case.
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Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
Mr. Hoorta*************************************
"cough" Tom Brady "cough" late round pick 6th round, 199th overall "cough"
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Now, just why do you think I wish to be vexed by your conundrum?
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Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
Mr. Hoorta*************************************
"cough" Tom Brady "cough" late round pick 6th round, 199th overall "cough"
Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
Mr. Hoorta*************************************
"cough" Tom Brady "cough" late round pick 6th round, 199th overall "cough"
The real conundrum...I'm getting tired of the don't draft a running back in the top 10 crowd. Lemme educate a bit.
First just because a UFA pans out or a 5th round pick pans out a position doesn't allow you to make a general rule. So much goes into this- staying healthy? system? supporting cast?
This is now more of passing league- TRUE...BUT we aren't the Saints or other teams that are putting the ball in the air so much that its just a luxury to have a back. Can we all agree our offense- and what it is striving to be and as offensive as it was last year- tried...tired some more and tried until it hurt our eyes to run the ball. Remember the Seattle game...31 carries for Hardesty- would have loved to have a back like Richardson carry it that many times- we would be much better off.
The general opinion out there...there are four elite prospects- 2 QBs, a LT and a RB. Every other guy grades out a bit lower than some of your past top 5- top 10 guys.
T Richardson reminds me so much of Emmitt Smith. Someone said Ray Rice- but i disagree- Ray Rice is gonna go 80 yards on you but go for 1,2,2 and 3 yards the carries before. T Richardson is a 5-8 yard back that is gonna hit you for a 30-40 yarder if you try to arm tackle. Folks can point to his speed but watch the highlights- he's patient let's his blocks set up and then he's very decisive (one cut guy). You see a ton of defenders arm tackle him and lose the battle- that tells you the guy has some wiggle and he's pretty strong. I'll take him.
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Mike Turner was a fifth round pick, and Arian Foster was a UFA!!! It should be plain as mud by now, you DON'T need to draft your running back high anymore.
Mr. Hoorta*************************************
"cough" Tom Brady "cough" late round pick 6th round, 199th overall "cough"
The real conundrum...I'm getting tired of the don't draft a running back in the top 10 crowd. Lemme educate a bit.
First just because a UFA pans out or a 5th round pick pans out a position doesn't allow you to make a general rule. So much goes into this- staying healthy? system? supporting cast?
This is now more of passing league- TRUE...BUT we aren't the Saints or other teams that are putting the ball in the air so much that its just a luxury to have a back. Can we all agree our offense- and what it is striving to be and as offensive as it was last year- tried...tired some more and tried until it hurt our eyes to run the ball. Remember the Seattle game...31 carries for Hardesty- would have loved to have a back like Richardson carry it that many times- we would be much better off.
The general opinion out there...there are four elite prospects- 2 QBs, a LT and a RB. Every other guy grades out a bit lower than some of your past top 5- top 10 guys.
T Richardson reminds me so much of Emmitt Smith. Someone said Ray Rice- but i disagree- Ray Rice is gonna go 80 yards on you but go for 1,2,2 and 3 yards the carries before. T Richardson is a 5-8 yard back that is gonna hit you for a 30-40 yarder if you try to arm tackle. Folks can point to his speed but watch the highlights- he's patient let's his blocks set up and then he's very decisive (one cut guy). You see a ton of defenders arm tackle him and lose the battle- that tells you the guy has some wiggle and he's pretty strong. I'll take him.
The real conundrum...I'm getting tired of the don't draft a running back in the top 10 crowd. Lemme educate a bit.
First just because a UFA pans out or a 5th round pick pans out a position doesn't allow you to make a general rule. So much goes into this- staying healthy? system? supporting cast?
This is now more of passing league- TRUE...BUT we aren't the Saints or other teams that are putting the ball in the air so much that its just a luxury to have a back. Can we all agree our offense- and what it is striving to be and as offensive as it was last year- tried...tired some more and tried until it hurt our eyes to run the ball. Remember the Seattle game...31 carries for Hardesty- would have loved to have a back like Richardson carry it that many times- we would be much better off.
The general opinion out there...there are four elite prospects- 2 QBs, a LT and a RB. Every other guy grades out a bit lower than some of your past top 5- top 10 guys.
T Richardson reminds me so much of Emmitt Smith. Someone said Ray Rice- but i disagree- Ray Rice is gonna go 80 yards on you but go for 1,2,2 and 3 yards the carries before. T Richardson is a 5-8 yard back that is gonna hit you for a 30-40 yarder if you try to arm tackle. Folks can point to his speed but watch the highlights- he's patient let's his blocks set up and then he's very decisive (one cut guy). You see a ton of defenders arm tackle him and lose the battle- that tells you the guy has some wiggle and he's pretty strong. I'll take him.
In some earlier threads I pointed out how, historically, you are far less likely to have a bust on your hands with a high RB pick than you are a high QB pick.
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Trent Richardson Enjoys PreDraft Visit to Cleveland Browns
by Tommy King • Apr 4, 2012 5:50 PM CDT
The Cleveland Browns hosted running back Trent Richardson and quarterback Brandon Weeden on predraft visits to their training facility in Berea. Via Richardson's Twitter account:
Trent Richardson@TrentRich03
"Had a great time in Cleveland. Its in God's hands now"
4 Apr 12 Reply
Retweet
Favorite
Browns officials took Richardson and Weeden out to dinner on Sunday, then the players were interviewed and underwent physical examinations. The players are not allowed to workout for teams on predraft visits, though teams an schedule private workouts with them.
More after the jump...
Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon, Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill and LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne are also expected to visit the Browns this week.
Richardson could be the favorite to be selected by the Browns with the fourth pick after blowing away Browns scouts during Alabama's Pro Day.
For more news, analysis, and discussion on the Browns, visit Dawgs By Nature. For all your draft and free agency news, be sure to check out SB Nation's NFL news hub. For analysis of the draft, visit Mocking The Draft.
......I thought he didn't have a twitter account?
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
I guess he started one up again or his agent told him to(seems legit, lot of family photos)... seems like he has great character and has grown up quick...heck he got a girl pregnant when he was 15, kids either kill you, make your hair turn grey or fall out, but i guess with him he took that oppurtunity and made the best of it.
If we don't pick him up i really don't think i would look at a back till the 4th round (turbin, gray) then bryce brown.
this is what I'm hoping for
Blackmon, Jefferies, Adams, Mcnutt, Turbin, T. Johnson, Dwight Jones, Bentley Malik Jackson, Jarius Wright, Bryce Brown Danny Coale, A. Neugebauer
only running back i have in my mock
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Philadelphia, PA (Sports Network) - This isn't the best of times to be an NFL running back.
The golden age of one of football's most glorious positions has come and gone, with today's intricate pass-happy offenses, multiple-receiver sets and rules changes intended to encourage a shootout philosophy having rendered the spirit-breaking, 25-carry-a-game backfield punisher of days past a relative dinosaur of the modern pro offense. Though players such as Baltimore's Ray Rice and Chicago's Matt Forte are examples that the every-down back isn't yet completely extinct, the reluctance of their respective teams to offer long- term contracts this offseason only reinforces the belief that the two standouts are part of a dying breed.
The gradual devaluing of running backs was further emphasized at the 2011 NFL Draft, where former Heisman Trophy winner Mark Ingram was the lone member of the fraternity selected in the first round -- and that didn't come until the 28th overall pick. Only one has been taken in the top 10 of the last three drafts, when Buffalo nabbed C.J. Spiller ninth overall out of a 2009 group in which the best running back -- Houston's Arian Foster -- entered the league as a college free agent.
There are always exceptions to every rule, however. Like Trent Richardson.
Ingram's onetime University of Alabama teammate has forced NFL general managers and personnel evaluators to question the trendy train of thought that a capable running back can be mined in the draft's later rounds (or even beyond, in Foster's case). Blessed with an exceptional combination of power, speed and desire, the 2011 Doak Walker Award recipient is unquestionably one of this season's most talented prospects -- and perhaps the best running back out of the college ranks since Adrian Peterson, who's more than justified the No. 7 overall choice the Minnesota Vikings spent on him in 2007.
Richardson's hard-to-find set of skills should make him a very enticing option for either Cleveland or Tampa Bay, two teams with glaring needs for a bell-cow rusher that own the fourth and fifth picks in the upcoming draft, though there's still a good chance he joins Ingram as the only first-round running back of his class. In fact, the 2012 draft could shape up as a virtual carbon copy of last year's pertaining to the position.
Four running backs came off the board in the second round of the 2011 draft, with three more taken in the third and six in the fourth. Virginia Tech's David Wilson, Boise State's Doug Martin and Miami-Florida's Lamar Miller are all widely considered potential top 50 candidates, and the depth of this year's crop rivals that of the previous one.
A more in-depth look at this year's running back cast can be found below, continuing The Sports Network's preview series of the 2012 NFL Draft:
1) TRENT RICHARDSON, ALABAMA
Height: 5-foot-9; Weight: 228; Age (as of Sept. 1): 21
After sharing time with 2011 first-round pick Mark Ingram in a loaded Alabama backfield his first two seasons, Richardson finally had a featured role last fall and showed just why he was one of the nation's premier prospects coming out of high school. The powerful 21-year-old rushed for nearly 1,700 yards and scored 24 total touchdowns to help the Crimson Tide to a second BCS championship in three years, despite being the focus of opposing defenses that constantly stacked the line of scrimmage to try to neutralize him. A Florida state weightlifting champion in high school, Richardson's tremendous strength and low center of gravity allows him to routinely break tackles between the tackles, and he also has the speed to break containment outside for big gains. He's also a solid receiver and willing pass blocker who relishes physicality, which may have some scouts concerned about his long-term durability down the road.
PROJECTION: As complete a back as you'll find and with a genuine passion for the game, Richardson stands head and shoulders among his incoming peers and merits a top five overall selection. Could slide a bit if both Cleveland (picking fourth) and Tampa Bay (fifth) decide to pass, but still won't last to the second half of the first round.
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...for those who would rather pass on the TRuth, there are other runningbacks listed in the link.
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Trent Richardson Enjoys PreDraft Visit to Cleveland Browns
by Tommy King • Apr 4, 2012 5:50 PM CDT
The Cleveland Browns hosted running back Trent Richardson and quarterback Brandon Weeden on predraft visits to their training facility in Berea. Via Richardson's Twitter account:
Trent Richardson@TrentRich03
"Had a great time in Cleveland. Its in God's hands now"
4 Apr 12 Reply
Retweet
Favorite
Browns officials took Richardson and Weeden out to dinner on Sunday, then the players were interviewed and underwent physical examinations. The players are not allowed to workout for teams on predraft visits, though teams an schedule private workouts with them.
More after the jump...
Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon, Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill and LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne are also expected to visit the Browns this week.
Richardson could be the favorite to be selected by the Browns with the fourth pick after blowing away Browns scouts during Alabama's Pro Day.
For more news, analysis, and discussion on the Browns, visit Dawgs By Nature. For all your draft and free agency news, be sure to check out SB Nation's NFL news hub. For analysis of the draft, visit Mocking The Draft.
......I thought he didn't have a twitter account?
The Cleveland Browns hosted running back Trent Richardson and quarterback Brandon Weeden on predraft visits to their training facility in Berea.
What do Richardson and Weeden have in common?
Neither will be picked by the Browns...
Wonder where they went to dinner? Maybe one of Michael Simons' places???
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I guess my problem with Browns- we don't have 1 unit that you have to game plan for. Take that back- a few years ago our Special teams return unit was feared- what happened...we saw directional kicks and we usually had great field position. Cribbs single handedly kept us in games.
A few weeks ago posters made the argument- take Claiborne and make our defense nasty. My argument to this- love the idea of doing that by the way- we don't have any game changers on that side of the ball. I don't think guys like Ingram, Coples and Claiborne are game changers. You pick 4- you need a game changer. If a guy like Mario Williams was in this class I would want him over Richardson. We give Hardesty the ball 31 times against Seattle, Hillis had a ton of carries in our win over Indy. The rules and flow of the game may have changed teams but the Browns seem relatively unchanged unless Drew Brees walks through our doors.
I hope the Browns draft Richardson. Just as the Chargers drafted LT in 2001 and not Anthony Thomas in the 2nd round or like Minnesota drafted Peterson instead of taking Kenny Irons in the 2nd round. As many examples I can come up with like this, someone can counter with a Gore pick in the 3rd round, or Terell Davis in the 6th round. So its pointless to slot players based on position- just evaluate the talent.
We talk about drafting Claiborne YET we ignore that the CB being a position with all the rule changes and PI calls. Its hard to be dominate at the position. Have rules changed to make running the ball harder? No. We just have QBs that air the ball out and other athletes playing Qb now that you can use in the running game making offensive gameplans change. I hope we stay away from this trend AT LEAST THIS SEASON and not reach on a guy like Tannehill who I'd bet is not the next Brees.
Selective arguments are being made that's all I'm saying.
I say take Richardson- bring a RT in with 22nd pick and let's make our run game and short screen pass game something to be feared.
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@mike-h said:
You think that people didn't "evaluate" the talent on all of those RB misses?
Every year, this SAME DISCUSSION goes on about how much to value each running back.
Trent Richardson is not Adrian Peterson until he proves it. He could be another Ki-Jana Carter or William Green, you just DON'T KNOW. And I guess you don't KNOW that with any position you pick in the draft. It's a gamble.
Why gamble with your most important pick at a position that is 1.) Not the focal point of your offense. 2.) Has such a high ceiling but whose cellar is a bottomless pit and 3.) has been supplemented continually in th 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th rounds? (even UDFA's hit successfully enough to mention).
The fact is that MORE successful teams find their running backs in later rounds and do fine with the players they pick who fit THEIR systems. B Jax fits in Cleveland. So does Oggy. The Browns do not, I repeat, DO NOT need Trent Richardson and the risk of him not living up to the hype with their No. 4 overall pick.
What was the Vikings' record last year?
AP had a great year and wore down and was injured. He's wearing down already and gets injured a lot because he takes a beating.
That is the very reason teams are switching to a multi-back system.
Ahmad Bradshaw, when was he drafted? When was Brandon Jacobs drafted? How many SB do both of them have?
How many does AP or LT have?
RB's are not the answer, especially in today's game and the Browns' offense.
Forgot to add this to the list of TIRED arguments.
"Ahmad Bradshaw, when was he drafted? When was Brandon Jacobs drafted? How many SB do both of them have?
How many does AP or LT have?"
Its similar to the guy with money that can't get women to look at him. Could it be looks or personality? There are 30 guys fighting for one girl and one happens to win- so we rule out the traits that one of losers had? Are there other explanations why players on teams you mentioned are either winning or losing or not even sniffing Super Bowls? Of course.
If the WCO is 60% pass mostly short catch timing patterns with run after the catch emphasized and 40% run. What is wrong with adding a guy like Richardson who would likely become 10-15% of your pass game and 30% of your run game. We should be complaining that we are looking at Blackmon who will figure into less of our offense. But I realize a deep threat WR opens up other areas in his presence alone to make a big play down the field. I not completely against drafting Blackmon by the way. I'll just take 5-7 years of dominance that I think Trent Richardson can bring to our offense- but he's just one piece to the puzzle- which I'm sure you'll argue is not an important piece.
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AP has played in the NFL for 5 years... he's expected to return to the starting lineup week 1 and ready to go. This would be his 6th NFL season correct? He doesn't look to be slowing down anytime soon. We'll have to see how he looks when he returns but all indications so far is that he'll be the same force he has been in the past. Even if he is not the same and his skills have slightly diminished he's still 5 times better than Oogy Boogy, hardesty and Jackson... just saying.
Trent could be a force for 10 years or more in the NFL. He's only 20 years old right? He'll be barely 21 when the season starts.
Look, I get where you're coming from. I was bummed when we passed on Peterson in favor of Joe Thomas but we needed a LT. Well, we've got our LT. I'm not willing to count out Little as being a #1 WR at this level. I think that he'll continue to get better. He's 6'3" 230 lbs with good leaping ability and good moves after the catch. I think that he can be a #1 this year. So with that said, we have our LT, our WR, our QB in Colt, our C in Mack... what more do you want until we can take our franchise RB? Take trent NOW and we can add more pieces next draft but get Trent now because he is a once in a blue moon type player.
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Watched every game on DirectTV.
How many times did you see Hillis on short swings or some other back on a quick flair out of the backfield? Often but probably not more than we will see because of personnel. I really think the Front office had more of problem with Hillis in this area. He was a guy that couldn't make the first man miss and when teams aimed to stop him the help defense was all over him even when he ran the first guy over.
If we had a choice I will take T Rich over Martin by the way. I think you have some good players at #22 for WR (although I'm saying J. Martin here at RT) Another guy to keep an eye on is TY Hilton- although I think he's a slot guy- but if folks were disppointed we didn't get Deseasn Jackson-I think this kid has every opportunity to be the type of playermaker he is.
"T Rich isn't going to beat DB's in the end zone is he? He's not going to run tough slants in bump n run coverage and fight for the ball over the head of DB's is he?" Is Blackmon going to keep a pass rush honest by running solidly between the tackles? Is Claiborne going to catch slants from Colt? I can go on and on.
There is no cure for our bad offense with one pick. I won't argue that T. Rich is going to make the Browns offense a juggernaut- he's an important and IMO the best piece to the puzzle in our current situation at #4.
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Player Class Pos Yards Att TD Y/A
Adrian Peterson SO RB 1,108 220 14 5.04
Jacob Gutierrez SO RB 254 48 2 5.29
Did the Vikings make the right pick?
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i hope all you trent richardson he-man love club members have all your nooses ready because the way you talk it's as if you can't live....."if living is without you(trent)!" cuz the browns aren't drafting him.
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i hope all you trent richardson he-man love club members have all your nooses ready because the way you talk it's as if you can't live....."if living is without you(trent)!" cuz the browns aren't drafting him.
i hope all you trent richardson he-man love club members have all your nooses ready because the way you talk it's as if you can't live....."if living is without you(trent)!" cuz the browns aren't drafting him.
Great song, but the other night I peeked in on American Idol and one of the contestants was doing that song (and doing a pretty good job).
But that dumbass Randy Jackson said something on the order of "Wow, Mariah Carey would be proud of how you sang her song". I thought WTF, asshole. That song was a great hit by Harry Nillson before Mariah Carey was ever freeking born.
GOD DAMN I CAN'T WAIT FOR HIM TO SNAP THAT TOOTHPICK HARRISON!!! GET EM BOY! SICK EM! 
AND ALL THAT SHIT! WOOF WOOF WOOF!
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