Jonathan Martin Or Stephen Hill
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I like the Blackmon v Richardson thread... so same rules apply
Imagine we stay at #22 and both of these guys are available. Which one do you take?
I say Stephen Hill. He quietly reminds me of Randy Moss. 6'3" 4.36 40-time. This guy could be a deadly deep threat. I am on board with Richardson at #4, so this guy could be an enormous pick for us in the first round.
Jonathan Martin would be awesome, and many mocks have him available at #22. I just think we have other options to fix the RT position. We already have 2 1st rounders on our o-line, not sure if we'd be getting the best value by taking a RT at this spot.
So... No TRADE talk for this thread, but if there are other guys who could be REALISTICALLY available at #22, feel free to throw them into the mix
#Justsayin' -
We desperately need help at both those positions and both these guys (Not sure Hill would be upon further review) would be an upgrade. Also, shouldn't Kendall Wright be in this conversation, too?
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I like the Blackmon v Richardson thread... so same rules apply
Imagine we stay at #22 and both of these guys are available. Which one do you take?
I say Stephen Hill. He quietly reminds me of Randy Moss. 6'3" 4.36 40-time. This guy could be a deadly deep threat. I am on board with Richardson at #4, so this guy could be an enormous pick for us in the first round.
Jonathan Martin would be awesome, and many mocks have him available at #22. I just think we have other options to fix the RT position. We already have 2 1st rounders on our o-line, not sure if we'd be getting the best value by taking a RT at this spot.
So... No TRADE talk for this thread, but if there are other guys who could be REALISTICALLY available at #22, feel free to throw them into the mix
I like the Blackmon v Richardson thread... so same rules apply
Imagine we stay at #22 and both of these guys are available. Which one do you take?
I say Stephen Hill. He quietly reminds me of Randy Moss. 6'3" 4.36 40-time. This guy could be a deadly deep threat. I am on board with Richardson at #4, so this guy could be an enormous pick for us in the first round.
Jonathan Martin would be awesome, and many mocks have him available at #22. I just think we have other options to fix the RT position. We already have 2 1st rounders on our o-line, not sure if we'd be getting the best value by taking a RT at this spot.
So... No TRADE talk for this thread, but if there are other guys who could be REALISTICALLY available at #22, feel free to throw them into the mix
Just how I dont like how Tannehill is rising because of things not on college tape, I am very hesitant to move Stephen Hill up to a #22 pick just because he measured in well at the combine. Carlton Mitchell has good measurables too. Not saying Hill wont be good, but thats a huge risk to take a WR at 22 just because of what he COULD do, not because what he HAS done...
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We desperately need help at both those positions and both these guys (Not sure Hill would be upon further review) would be an upgrade. Also, shouldn't Kendall Wright be in this conversation, too?
We desperately need help at both those positions and both these guys would be an upgrade. Also, shouldn't Kendall Wright be in this conversation, too?
Sure. Kendall Wright is a realistic pick here. Not sure if I like him or Hill better right now. I'll get back to you.
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Here are Wright's stats
Year G/GS Rec Yds Avg TD 2008 12/8 50 649 13.0 5 2009 12/11 66 740 11.2 4 2010 13/11 78 952 12.2 7 2011 13/12 108 1,663 15.4 14 Career 50/42 302 4,004 13.3 30
Wright had RG3 throwing to him in 2009 and 2011. In 2010, Wright was either higher on the depth chart, or got better. In 2011, with RG3 under center, he improved even further.
Here are Hill's
Receiving G Rec Yards Yds/Rec Long TD Yds/G 2009 13 6 137 22.8 53 1 1.5 2010 12 15 291 19.4 79 3 24.3 2011 13 28 820 29.3 82 5 63.1 TOTAL 38 49 1248 25.5 82 9 32.8
Hill had Joshua Nesbitt and Tevin Washington throwing to him, and I don't see anything here, aside from his combine numbers that puts him in round 1. I'd say you'd be crazy to pick Hill over Wright. I think the better question would be Wright or Martin?
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This pick is so dependent on the #4 overall pick. If we take Blackmon, Hill is out of the question and then it opens up for debate Jonathon/Doug Martin, David Wilson, Lamar Miller, etc. If we take Richardson I think that narrows us down more to Wright, Hill, or Martin mostly.
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I think Hill has a higher upside than Wright, but Wright might be better able to contribute right away.
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Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer: Neither or either.
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i've said before in another thread if you go RB at number 4 you better get your RT at 22.
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Here are Wright's stats
Year G/GS Rec Yds Avg TD 2008 12/8 50 649 13.0 5 2009 12/11 66 740 11.2 4 2010 13/11 78 952 12.2 7 2011 13/12 108 1,663 15.4 14 Career 50/42 302 4,004 13.3 30
Wright had RG3 throwing to him in 2009 and 2011. In 2010, Wright was either higher on the depth chart, or got better. In 2011, with RG3 under center, he improved even further.
Here are Hill's
Receiving G Rec Yards Yds/Rec Long TD Yds/G 2009 13 6 137 22.8 53 1 1.5 2010 12 15 291 19.4 79 3 24.3 2011 13 28 820 29.3 82 5 63.1 TOTAL 38 49 1248 25.5 82 9 32.8
Hill had Joshua Nesbitt and Tevin Washington throwing to him, and I don't see anything here, aside from his combine numbers that puts him in round 1. I'd say you'd be crazy to pick Hill over Wright. I think the better question would be Wright or Martin?
Here are Wright's stats
Year G/GS Rec Yds Avg TD 2008 12/8 50 649 13.0 5 2009 12/11 66 740 11.2 4 2010 13/11 78 952 12.2 7 2011 13/12 108 1,663 15.4 14 Career 50/42 302 4,004 13.3 30
Wright had RG3 throwing to him in 2009 and 2011. In 2010, Wright was either higher on the depth chart, or got better. In 2011, with RG3 under center, he improved even further.
Here are Hill's
Receiving G Rec Yards Yds/Rec Long TD Yds/G 2009 13 6 137 22.8 53 1 1.5 2010 12 15 291 19.4 79 3 24.3 2011 13 28 820 29.3 82 5 63.1 TOTAL 38 49 1248 25.5 82 9 32.8
Hill had Joshua Nesbitt and Tevin Washington throwing to him, and I don't see anything here, aside from his combine numbers that puts him in round 1. I'd say you'd be crazy to pick Hill over Wright. I think the better question would be Wright or Martin?
Stats don't work in comparing the two. Wright played in a spread, pass first offense with an elite QB. Hill played in a run first, triple option offense with 2 QBs who are far from elite (if you get a chance watch some of GT's games from last year. If you think Colt has a problem with over throws and passes in the dirt I guarantee you Washington will make Colt look like Peyton Manning) If stats are needed check out the pass attempts per game between Baylor and GT. I don't have the time to look it up right now but I'm very confident that GT will average less then 15-20 pass attempts per game.
As for my pick between Hill and Martin (or Wright) I'll take Hill in a heartbeat. GT is quietly turning into a WR factory. While some might view the triple option as detrimental to a WR I view it as a strength. A number one WR out of GT will have experience in 2 important skills, blocking and playmaking/ being a deep threat (check out Hill's yrd/rec). They may lack in route running but I view route running as a very teachable skill, much easier to teach then blocking and playmaking.
Even if we go Blackmon at 4 I still think drafting Hill should be a priority. While I'm not positive we'll be able to utilize Hill as a deep threat this coming year (at the very least he'll keep opposing defenses honest so they can't stack the box) between our system and Colt, it will give Hill a year to acclimate to the NFL, work on his route running, and will provide our (more then likely) franchise QB drafted next year 2 (or possibly 3 depending on what's done at 4) legit WR's to throw to. An athletic, possession WR in Little and a tall, fast, deep threat in Hill. If we go Blackmon/Hill our WR core will be set for years.
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I don't feel comfortable taking Hill if either Jonathon Martin or Kendall Wright are left at 22. Some scouts have Kendall Wright as their top WR in this class so I think he's the obvious pick. Richardson, Wright, RT at 37.
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I watched some tape to compare Wright and Hill. The conclusion I see is that these guys are a wash, and the choice is one of preference...
Wright has much more tape and highlights to see b/c he was thrown at a ridiciulously incomparable amount of times than Hill. This is where the stat difference comes in.
Wright is a speedy, one cut, inside kind of guy and looks to me that being in the slot would be where he would find the most success in the NFL. His ability to get open quickly makes him an excellent option for our WCO. His quickness and ability to make catches in traffic could really help. BUT,
My preference is Hill. He is a legit #1, field-stretching WR who would play on the outside. If you watch his film, he is beyond CBs and even safeties before they even have a chance on the play. If a team refuses to give this guy the attention he will command in the NFL, he will burn you play in and play out.
IMHO, if we go Richardson and Hill, it opens up both of these guys to showcase their talents. Teams cannot stack 8 in the box with Hill a threat to go deep every play. And, teams will have to soften up to cover a combo of Hill and Little on the outside, and Cribbs/Norwood in the slot, thus opening up runnning lanes for Richardson.
Either way though, it is going to be up to Colt to make it all happen. If he can't get the ball to Hill, deep, then the deep threat is wasted, and Wright may be the better option.
#Justsayin' -
Here are Calvin Johnson's college stats
Year G-GS Rec Yds Avg TD LP Pen PG
2004 12-12 48 837 17.4 7 51 10 69.8
2005 12-12 54 888 16.4 6 59 6 74.0
2006 14-14 76 1,202 15.8 15 66 3 85.9
Total 38-38 178 2,927 16.4 28 66 19 77.0
and his combine results
Ht Wt 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP
6 ft 5 in 239 lb 4.35 s 1.52 s 2.53 s 42.5 in 11 ft 7 in
All from NFL Combine, except vertical and broad jump (which are from Georgia Tech pro day).[33][34]
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I watched some tape to compare Wright and Hill. The conclusion I see is that these guys are a wash, and the choice is one of preference...
Wright has much more tape and highlights to see b/c he was thrown at a ridiciulously incomparable amount of times than Hill. This is where the stat difference comes in.
Wright is a speedy, one cut, inside kind of guy and looks to me that being in the slot would be where he would find the most success in the NFL. His ability to get open quickly makes him an excellent option for our WCO. His quickness and ability to make catches in traffic could really help. BUT,
My preference is Hill. He is a legit #1, field-stretching WR who would play on the outside. If you watch his film, he is beyond CBs and even safeties before they even have a chance on the play. If a team refuses to give this guy the attention he will command in the NFL, he will burn you play in and play out.
IMHO, if we go Richardson and Hill, it opens up both of these guys to showcase their talents. Teams cannot stack 8 in the box with Hill a threat to go deep every play. And, teams will have to soften up to cover a combo of Hill and Little on the outside, and Cribbs/Norwood in the slot, thus opening up runnning lanes for Richardson.
Either way though, it is going to be up to Colt to make it all happen. If he can't get the ball to Hill, deep, then the deep threat is wasted, and Wright may be the better option.
Either way though, it is going to be up to Colt to make it all happen. If he can't get the ball to Hill, deep, then the deep threat is wasted, and Wright may be the better option.
Yeah, I'm not sure McCoy could take full advantage of Hill.
But if we do draft Hill I bet you the next QB will be able to
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I watched some tape to compare Wright and Hill. The conclusion I see is that these guys are a wash, and the choice is one of preference...
Wright has much more tape and highlights to see b/c he was thrown at a ridiciulously incomparable amount of times than Hill. This is where the stat difference comes in.
Wright is a speedy, one cut, inside kind of guy and looks to me that being in the slot would be where he would find the most success in the NFL. His ability to get open quickly makes him an excellent option for our WCO. His quickness and ability to make catches in traffic could really help. BUT,
My preference is Hill. He is a legit #1, field-stretching WR who would play on the outside. If you watch his film, he is beyond CBs and even safeties before they even have a chance on the play. If a team refuses to give this guy the attention he will command in the NFL, he will burn you play in and play out.
IMHO, if we go Richardson and Hill, it opens up both of these guys to showcase their talents. Teams cannot stack 8 in the box with Hill a threat to go deep every play. And, teams will have to soften up to cover a combo of Hill and Little on the outside, and Cribbs/Norwood in the slot, thus opening up runnning lanes for Richardson.
Either way though, it is going to be up to Colt to make it all happen. If he can't get the ball to Hill, deep, then the deep threat is wasted, and Wright may be the better option.
I watched some tape to compare Wright and Hill. The conclusion I see is that these guys are a wash, and the choice is one of preference...
Wright has much more tape and highlights to see b/c he was thrown at a ridiciulously incomparable amount of times than Hill. This is where the stat difference comes in.
Wright is a speedy, one cut, inside kind of guy and looks to me that being in the slot would be where he would find the most success in the NFL. His ability to get open quickly makes him an excellent option for our WCO. His quickness and ability to make catches in traffic could really help. BUT,
My preference is Hill. He is a legit #1, field-stretching WR who would play on the outside. If you watch his film, he is beyond CBs and even safeties before they even have a chance on the play. If a team refuses to give this guy the attention he will command in the NFL, he will burn you play in and play out.
IMHO, if we go Richardson and Hill, it opens up both of these guys to showcase their talents. Teams cannot stack 8 in the box with Hill a threat to go deep every play. And, teams will have to soften up to cover a combo of Hill and Little on the outside, and Cribbs/Norwood in the slot, thus opening up runnning lanes for Richardson.
Either way though, it is going to be up to Colt to make it all happen. If he can't get the ball to Hill, deep, then the deep threat is wasted, and Wright may be the better option.
Is your definition of a #1 WR a deep threat? cause thats not how I look at it, especially in the WCO.
And I dont buy the argument that GT is developing into a WR factory. They have 2 starting receivers in the NFL. Yea, Calvin is obviously a freak. Demaryius Thomas would barely be talked about if he hadnt made that ONE catch in the playoffs last year, he actually has been relatively disappointing (22 and 32 receptions in his first 2 years), mostly because of injuries. You cant argue GT develops their receivers, because they rarely throw it and have poor QB play. So by recruiting one stud and 2 other WRs who look good on paper, GT is now a WR factory?? I dont buy it...
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You can't possibly compare Wright's stats to Hill's as Georgia Tech was running the triple-option offense. Compare his combine results to Mike Wallace's and their pretty darn close. Hill has the blazing speed and, at the combine, ran very good routes. IMHO, Wright is too darn small. I'm all over Hill at 22.
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I go RT.
First, it is our weakest position on the team. It has to be fixed. Second, until the QB has a chance to throw without somebody in his face, a receiver isn't going to contribute.
Just the way it works. If your lines are weak, your team is weak.
Simple stuff.
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I watched some tape to compare Wright and Hill. The conclusion I see is that these guys are a wash, and the choice is one of preference...
Wright has much more tape and highlights to see b/c he was thrown at a ridiciulously incomparable amount of times than Hill. This is where the stat difference comes in.
Wright is a speedy, one cut, inside kind of guy and looks to me that being in the slot would be where he would find the most success in the NFL. His ability to get open quickly makes him an excellent option for our WCO. His quickness and ability to make catches in traffic could really help. BUT,
My preference is Hill. He is a legit #1, field-stretching WR who would play on the outside. If you watch his film, he is beyond CBs and even safeties before they even have a chance on the play. If a team refuses to give this guy the attention he will command in the NFL, he will burn you play in and play out.
IMHO, if we go Richardson and Hill, it opens up both of these guys to showcase their talents. Teams cannot stack 8 in the box with Hill a threat to go deep every play. And, teams will have to soften up to cover a combo of Hill and Little on the outside, and Cribbs/Norwood in the slot, thus opening up runnning lanes for Richardson.
Either way though, it is going to be up to Colt to make it all happen. If he can't get the ball to Hill, deep, then the deep threat is wasted, and Wright may be the better option.
Is your definition of a #1 WR a deep threat? cause thats not how I look at it, especially in the WCO.
And I dont buy the argument that GT is developing into a WR factory. They have 2 starting receivers in the NFL. Yea, Calvin is obviously a freak. Demaryius Thomas would barely be talked about if he hadnt made that ONE catch in the playoffs last year, he actually has been relatively disappointing (22 and 32 receptions in his first 2 years), mostly because of injuries. You cant argue GT develops their receivers, because they rarely throw it and have poor QB play. So by recruiting one stud and 2 other WRs who look good on paper, GT is now a WR factory?? I dont buy it...
Is your definition of a #1 WR a deep threat? cause thats not how I look at it, especially in the WCO.
And I dont buy the argument that GT is developing into a WR factory. They have 2 starting receivers in the NFL. Yea, Calvin is obviously a freak. Demaryius Thomas would barely be talked about if he hadnt made that ONE catch in the playoffs last year, he actually has been relatively disappointing (22 and 32 receptions in his first 2 years), mostly because of injuries. You cant argue GT develops their receivers, because they rarely throw it and have poor QB play. So by recruiting one stud and 2 other WRs who look good on paper, GT is now a WR factory?? I dont buy it...
I'm assuming you're referring to my post with regards to GT. Mind you I said GT is quietly turning into a WR factory, "turning into" being the key phrase. With that said, can you name me a college that has produced 2, and more likely 3 after this draft, quality first round WR prospects in the same timespan? There's no need to debate Megatron but Thomas is still a bit of a question mark going into this third year but considering his play last year, with Tebow "throwing" him the ball, are you not at least intrigued by his upside with a big time QB at the helm, and coming in as Denver's probable number 1 weapon this year?
Concerning Thomas' accomplishments so far, keep in mind he was drafted in the 20's and came into the leauge as a unpolished WR from a triple option offense, much like Hill is this year. Nobody was expecting great things his rookie year, and in my opinion will need to be the same approach taken with Hill. A pro style offense is a bit of a culture shock in terms of transitioning from the triple option and is going to take at least a year to acclimate to. Thomas, much like Hill, has never had a legit QB throwing to them, at least in college, and in Thomas' case the NFL. I loved Nesbitt (Thomas and Hill) at GT but he was never a great QB in the traditional sense (aka throwing.) Washington (Hill) this year literally make me squirm with some of the throws, or more accurately "attempted throws" he made. Orton is a stop gap, and the most accomplished QB Thomas has had throwing him the ball. Tebow is Tebow.
Needless to say I think you give either of these guys a legit QB (Hill will need a year to acclimate) they are both capable of being legit, if not scary, weapons in the NFL. I truly believe Thomas will prove it this year and I honestly believe Hill is more talented then Thomas is. The Browns desperately lack speed on the outside and Hill would not only fill a need, but would most likely be the BPA at 22.
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22 has to be Martin. Sanu may not be a 1, but he is a 1A at 37.
Overall talent level is much better this way -- the RT options after Martin and Adams are no better than our current players.
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Actually, Bobby Massie, OT, is my preference over Adams in a huge way.
I'm not sold on Adams at RT. My concern is, that Massie may also be gone by the time the Browns pick in the second. @@
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