As Usual, No Respect
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Let them play first before you get too excited. I've seen you compare this draft the the 74 draft at least twice before they've even played. Your making PoeticG seem like a pessimist.
Oh i'm not drawing a direct comparison. I'm simply saying it's the most excited I've been about a draft since I've been a Steeler fan and if all the picks hit like it seems they will it's going to be a damn good draft. It's not logical to make a direct comparison to the 74' draft considering the hall of famers, doing that would definitely be a cart before the horse scenario. The Steelers did own the draft though, i don't think there is any denying it.
Homotron said:
Oh i'm not drawing a direct comparison. I'm simply saying it's the most excited I've been about a draft since I've been a Steeler fan and if all the picks hit like it seems they will it's going to be a damn good draft. It's not logical to make a direct comparison to the 74' draft considering the hall of famers, doing that would definitely be a cart before the horse scenario. The Steelers did own the draft though, i don't think there is any denying it.
Well, we have had many seasons when after the draft we felt the Browns hit one out of the park, when in reality we only hit a dribbler back to the mound.
Its fine to be optimistic....just don't go making any foolish guarantees like it sounds like you are doing.
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Endymion said:
Based on what I know of the Steelers, I expect their offense to be much improved this year. I would expect a leap into the top 10 offenses (from 21st), especially if the draft picks pan out and provide Ben with some much needed protection.
The real test of LeBeau comes this year. He's lost some core components to the defense, and those that remain appear to have lost some steps with age. If the Steelers defense finishes in the top 10 this year, then LeBeau worked some kind of miracle or a re-established run-game came to the rescue. There are other great defensive minds in the NFL, and I'd wager the Steelers have a better than 50/50 chance of landing one when LeBeau retires. Regardless, their is a talent/experience drain on the Steelers defense that will continue through at least the 2013 season.
I think the Steelers need to adopt the GB/NE model to make the play-offs this year. If they don't then I expect the prognosticators to be correct about our demise. If Steelers do embrace that model our owner will be an unhappy camper. Defense may win championships, but the 2012 Steelers defense definately won't. Further, I think Pittsburgh will have the worst defense in the AFC North.
Besides, Dick Jauron is an excellent defensive coach and I won't be surprised if the Browns had one of the top defensive units in the league this year. Not to mention your seems to have some good talent collecting on its' defense. If Rucker and Parker can keep you from getting gashed in the run game, I don't see many teams scoring more than 16 points against you. I just don't see your offense scoring any points and that means I don't see many wins in store for the Browns in 2012.
Who remains that has lost a step? The guys that lost a step are gone. Farrior and Aaron Smith. Aaron Smith played in spots this past season and never returned to form. James Farrior became a liability in pass coverage. They drafted Ziggy Hood and Cam Heyward to replace on the aging d-line and just drafted Hampton's eventual replacement. The biggest defensive question mark is going to be nose tackle but beyond that the team is as good as it's ever been. Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen are both primed to play a more expanded role and I don't believe for a second our line backing core will miss a beat without Farrior. Foote is still very solid and he knows the defense and we still have Stevenson Sylvester and we just drafted Spence. We also have our defensive coordinator replacement already on the team. Keith Butler our linebacker coach. The guy has turned down at least 3 defensive coordinator positions elsewhere because he's the heir apparent and the Steelers have told him as much. I'm not AT ALL worried about when Lebeau decides to hang them up. Butler has been under him for a long time and he's a special Coach in his own right, otherwise the Steelers wouldn't have assured him the job was his when Lebeau hangs them up. The Steelers reload in every single draft.
I also think you're bat sh.it crazy to suggest the Steelers will have the worst defense in the AFC North. The aging defense is as young as it's ever been with Aaron Smith and Farrior retiring. We also just drafted DeCastro and Adams and already saw substantial strides from Gilbert. I'm not super excited about Redman being the primary ball carrier but I'm also not worried. DeCastro is plug and play and Adams may crack the line up as a rookie. Colon could very well end up at guard and our line goes from marginal to very good over night. Our run game WILL be improved, not to mention the coordinator change to a guy that does what works all the time. The Steelers are going to make some substantial strides this season. Arians was a major hang up.
EDIT: And Dick Lebeau is the man BUT he's not the reason these players are good, they'd be good on other teams. I'd also love a explanation for the "wrought iron term". Frankly Gipper you don't know enough about the roster to even make this comment. The players that are now gone have been replaced with talent just as good at this stage or better. Aaron Smith is gone because he had lost it, Farrior the same. It's what the Steelers do, make the tough decisions and continue to improve. I'll be shocked if the defense isn't inside the top 10 this coming season, absolutely shocked.
2nd edit: If there is a defensive question mark it's at either safety position. If Clark or Polamalu go down we're going to have a tough time because there isn't much behind them. Unless Myron Rolle can prove that he's not focused on football and ready to prove his worth as a safety in the league. He certainly has the smarts and good size.
Homotron said:
Who remains that has lost a step?
The Steelers reload in every single draft.
I also think you're bat sh.it crazy to suggest the Steelers will have the worst defense in the AFC North. The aging defense is as young as it's ever been with Aaron Smith and Farrior retiring.
Arians was a major hang up.
I'll be shocked if the defense isn't inside the top 10 this coming season, absolutely shocked.
Tron,
Who is slower than Clark on defense? Where were Harrison, Timmons and Woodley last year? Did we sign them to 50M + contracts for the sack numbers they put up? Do you see Harrison being suspended for less than 4 games this year? Hampton won't be what he once was or anywhere near close to it again. Foote is not an improvement over Farrior, he's a cheaper option. Aaron Smith would start over Hood if he wasn't a cap/injury casualty. Frankly, you are looking at the Steelers defense through rose colored glasses, and it's time to put down the kool-aid.
As a whole, the Browns secondary is far superior to the Steelers secondary, at least as you look at it on paper right now. On an individual basis I would say Troy is our only player better between both teams secondary rosters. The Browns have younger players than the Steelers and they are all one year into their new system under another defensive mastermind named Jauron. The Browns defense will be better this year, how much so depends on how much they improve that run defense with no real top draft picks and/or free agents to do the job.
You might be excited about the Steelers draft picks, but Spence and Ta'amu will be special teamers at best this year. Slyvester and Worilds have shown me nothing yet. Assuming Allen or Brown can replace Gay is just wishful thinking. Cameron is the only back-up I feel has any real promise to make an impact, and Kiesel will keep him off the field.
While I think Haley's a good offensive coordinator, Big Ben is still pouting over the loss of Arians. He's already crying that Haley's play-book is too hard for him to understand. That's not really a good recipe for realizing our offensive potential in 2012. History has shown Steelers offense slumps the first year a new offensive coordinator is installed.
You may want to invest in a defibrillator before the season starts.
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So as usual all the talking heads are saying we have no team and Weeden will get raped by the Ravens etc. etc.
It's no secret that this franchise is a joke but why do they have to always talk garbage on Cleveland as a city?
We have more culture, hotter women, more jobs and less crime than Pittsburgh. Can they just get over themselves? All I hear are people talking about how much we, collectively, suck.
If this were the south in the 50s we'd be the oppressed black people. So sick of this crap. Up yours ESPN
So as usual all the talking heads are saying we have no team and Weeden will get raped by the Ravens etc. etc.
It's no secret that this franchise is a joke but why do they have to always talk garbage on Cleveland as a city?
We have more culture, hotter women, more jobs and less crime than Pittsburgh. Can they just get over themselves? All I hear are people talking about how much we, collectively, suck.
If this were the south in the 50s we'd be the oppressed black people. So sick of this crap. Up yours ESPN
1. You Cleveland folks always measure yourself against Pittsburgh, while we could give a fuck less about you.
2. Unemployment rate in Cleveland is 10.3%, in Pittsburgh it is much lower at 7.3%
3. Crime rates in Cleveland are in fact MUCH higher. 1296 per 100,000 people in Cleveland are subjected to violent crimes per year while the number is only 896 per 100k are in Pittsburgh.
4. Pittsburgh is annually ranked as one of, if not the most liveable cities in the US. Pittsburgh Most Liveable
5. Cleveland on the other hand was named "Most Miserable City in the US" Cleveland is Miserable
6. Hotter women and more culture is difficult to measure, but most objective observers would say both cities are similar in those departments, but Pittsburgh clearly has younger and hotter women.
Too easy. I could go on, but that would just be piling on, beating a dead horse, or Clevelanding a Clevelander.....
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Why the fuck are we arguing over which city has hotter women? Asinine.
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Homotron said:
Who remains that has lost a step?
The Steelers reload in every single draft.
I also think you're bat sh.it crazy to suggest the Steelers will have the worst defense in the AFC North. The aging defense is as young as it's ever been with Aaron Smith and Farrior retiring.
Arians was a major hang up.
I'll be shocked if the defense isn't inside the top 10 this coming season, absolutely shocked.
Tron,
Who is slower than Clark on defense? Where were Harrison, Timmons and Woodley last year? Did we sign them to 50M + contracts for the sack numbers they put up? Do you see Harrison being suspended for less than 4 games this year? Hampton won't be what he once was or anywhere near close to it again. Foote is not an improvement over Farrior, he's a cheaper option. Aaron Smith would start over Hood if he wasn't a cap/injury casualty. Frankly, you are looking at the Steelers defense through rose colored glasses, and it's time to put down the kool-aid.
As a whole, the Browns secondary is far superior to the Steelers secondary, at least as you look at it on paper right now. On an individual basis I would say Troy is our only player better between both teams secondary rosters. The Browns have younger players than the Steelers and they are all one year into their new system under another defensive mastermind named Jauron. The Browns defense will be better this year, how much so depends on how much they improve that run defense with no real top draft picks and/or free agents to do the job.
You might be excited about the Steelers draft picks, but Spence and Ta'amu will be special teamers at best this year. Slyvester and Worilds have shown me nothing yet. Assuming Allen or Brown can replace Gay is just wishful thinking. Cameron is the only back-up I feel has any real promise to make an impact, and Kiesel will keep him off the field.
While I think Haley's a good offensive coordinator, Big Ben is still pouting over the loss of Arians. He's already crying that Haley's play-book is too hard for him to understand. That's not really a good recipe for realizing our offensive potential in 2012. History has shown Steelers offense slumps the first year a new offensive coordinator is installed.
You may want to invest in a defibrillator before the season starts.
Endymion said:
Tron,
Who is slower than Clark on defense? Where were Harrison, Timmons and Woodley last year? Did we sign them to 50M + contracts for the sack numbers they put up? Do you see Harrison being suspended for less than 4 games this year? Hampton won't be what he once was or anywhere near close to it again. Foote is not an improvement over Farrior, he's a cheaper option. Aaron Smith would start over Hood if he wasn't a cap/injury casualty. Frankly, you are looking at the Steelers defense through rose colored glasses, and it's time to put down the kool-aid.
As a whole, the Browns secondary is far superior to the Steelers secondary, at least as you look at it on paper right now. On an individual basis I would say Troy is our only player better between both teams secondary rosters. The Browns have younger players than the Steelers and they are all one year into their new system under another defensive mastermind named Jauron. The Browns defense will be better this year, how much so depends on how much they improve that run defense with no real top draft picks and/or free agents to do the job.
You might be excited about the Steelers draft picks, but Spence and Ta'amu will be special teamers at best this year. Slyvester and Worilds have shown me nothing yet. Assuming Allen or Brown can replace Gay is just wishful thinking. Cameron is the only back-up I feel has any real promise to make an impact, and Kiesel will keep him off the field.
While I think Haley's a good offensive coordinator, Big Ben is still pouting over the loss of Arians. He's already crying that Haley's play-book is too hard for him to understand. That's not really a good recipe for realizing our offensive potential in 2012. History has shown Steelers offense slumps the first year a new offensive coordinator is installed.
You may want to invest in a defibrillator before the season starts.
Do you actually watch and follow the Steelers? Where was Harrison, Woodley and Timmon's last year? Timmons was rotated inside and outside almost constantly BECAUSE Harrison and Woodley were injured. Did you just up and forget that Woodley dealt with a strained hammy for a majority of the season? Did you also forget that Harrison fractured his orbital bone AND hurt his lower back? We had a patch work team for a majority of the season and lost several key players for the playoffs. I don't believe you can blame losses on injuries because professional teams need to persevere HOWEVER you can 100% expect a better team when those players are healthy. As far as Clark is concerned he lead our team in tackles and had the best season of his career with the Steelers. We missed him in a major way against the Broncos. Aaron Smith wasn't the same when he was healthy and where did I say Spence or the big boy at nose would be anything but special teams? Spence will be certainly BUT he was also one of the most instinctual players in the draft with a high football IQ. I would not be surprised to see him in the line up on a situational basis. You also COMPLETELY made up the Big Ben part about the playbook UNLESS you're talking about his opinion of the media and Haley. He said he didn't understand why the MEDIA was making such a big deal about it, not that he didn't understand it. Get real dude. I don't "drink the kool-aid" and on my primary message board have been very critical of certain things. I'm beginning to think you don't watch much Steeler football and if you do you just completely ignore the injury factor for an explanation in the drop of on field production.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
So as usual all the talking heads are saying we have no team and Weeden will get raped by the Ravens etc. etc.
It's no secret that this franchise is a joke but why do they have to always talk garbage on Cleveland as a city?
We have more culture, hotter women, more jobs and less crime than Pittsburgh. Can they just get over themselves? All I hear are people talking about how much we, collectively, suck.
If this were the south in the 50s we'd be the oppressed black people. So sick of this crap. Up yours ESPN
1. You Cleveland folks always measure yourself against Pittsburgh, while we could give a fuck less about you.
2. Unemployment rate in Cleveland is 10.3%, in Pittsburgh it is much lower at 7.3%
3. Crime rates in Cleveland are in fact MUCH higher. 1296 per 100,000 people in Cleveland are subjected to violent crimes per year while the number is only 896 per 100k are in Pittsburgh.
4. Pittsburgh is annually ranked as one of, if not the most liveable cities in the US. Pittsburgh Most Liveable
5. Cleveland on the other hand was named "Most Miserable City in the US" Cleveland is Miserable
6. Hotter women and more culture is difficult to measure, but most objective observers would say both cities are similar in those departments, but Pittsburgh clearly has younger and hotter women.
Too easy. I could go on, but that would just be piling on, beating a dead horse, or Clevelanding a Clevelander.....
1. You Cleveland folks always measure yourself against Pittsburgh, while we could give a fuck less about you.
2. Unemployment rate in Cleveland is 10.3%, in Pittsburgh it is much lower at 7.3%
3. Crime rates in Cleveland are in fact MUCH higher. 1296 per 100,000 people in Cleveland are subjected to violent crimes per year while the number is only 896 per 100k are in Pittsburgh.
4. Pittsburgh is annually ranked as one of, if not the most liveable cities in the US. Pittsburgh Most Liveable
5. Cleveland on the other hand was named "Most Miserable City in the US" Cleveland is Miserable
6. Hotter women and more culture is difficult to measure, but most objective observers would say both cities are similar in those departments, but Pittsburgh clearly has younger and hotter women.
Too easy. I could go on, but that would just be piling on, beating a dead horse, or Clevelanding a Clevelander.....
Nah, yinz city is a big stinking turd, and as soon as the sports teams all suck as bad as the pirates, the media will hop off yinz' nuts, and Pittsburgh will be as reviled as ever. As for the unemployment and crime...East Cleveland. That is all. Stop patting yourselves on the back, we only live like an hour and a half away. We all know what Pittsburgh is like, and its not like nyc. Without sports success Pittsburgh=wheeling west Virginia. That is to say, nothing special.
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And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
One of the worst losses in Steeler history. The only way I'm even marginally alright with it is related directly to the slew of crazy injuries last season. I'm also going to say it once more for those that didn't read me stating it the first time. I am 100% done with the city vs city BS. Steelers vs Browns, the end. I even changed my Ohio hating signature last week. Progress!
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Endymion said:
Tron,
Who is slower than Clark on defense? Where were Harrison, Timmons and Woodley last year? Did we sign them to 50M + contracts for the sack numbers they put up? Do you see Harrison being suspended for less than 4 games this year? Hampton won't be what he once was or anywhere near close to it again. Foote is not an improvement over Farrior, he's a cheaper option. Aaron Smith would start over Hood if he wasn't a cap/injury casualty. Frankly, you are looking at the Steelers defense through rose colored glasses, and it's time to put down the kool-aid.
As a whole, the Browns secondary is far superior to the Steelers secondary, at least as you look at it on paper right now. On an individual basis I would say Troy is our only player better between both teams secondary rosters. The Browns have younger players than the Steelers and they are all one year into their new system under another defensive mastermind named Jauron. The Browns defense will be better this year, how much so depends on how much they improve that run defense with no real top draft picks and/or free agents to do the job.
You might be excited about the Steelers draft picks, but Spence and Ta'amu will be special teamers at best this year. Slyvester and Worilds have shown me nothing yet. Assuming Allen or Brown can replace Gay is just wishful thinking. Cameron is the only back-up I feel has any real promise to make an impact, and Kiesel will keep him off the field.
While I think Haley's a good offensive coordinator, Big Ben is still pouting over the loss of Arians. He's already crying that Haley's play-book is too hard for him to understand. That's not really a good recipe for realizing our offensive potential in 2012. History has shown Steelers offense slumps the first year a new offensive coordinator is installed.
You may want to invest in a defibrillator before the season starts.
Do you actually watch and follow the Steelers? Where was Harrison, Woodley and Timmon's last year? Timmons was rotated inside and outside almost constantly BECAUSE Harrison and Woodley were injured. Did you just up and forget that Woodley dealt with a strained hammy for a majority of the season? Did you also forget that Harrison fractured his orbital bone AND hurt his lower back? We had a patch work team for a majority of the season and lost several key players for the playoffs. I don't believe you can blame losses on injuries because professional teams need to persevere HOWEVER you can 100% expect a better team when those players are healthy. As far as Clark is concerned he lead our team in tackles and had the best season of his career with the Steelers. We missed him in a major way against the Broncos. Aaron Smith wasn't the same when he was healthy and where did I say Spence or the big boy at nose would be anything but special teams? Spence will be certainly BUT he was also one of the most instinctual players in the draft with a high football IQ. I would not be surprised to see him in the line up on a situational basis. You also COMPLETELY made up the Big Ben part about the playbook UNLESS you're talking about his opinion of the media and Haley. He said he didn't understand why the MEDIA was making such a big deal about it, not that he didn't understand it. Get real dude. I don't "drink the kool-aid" and on my primary message board have been very critical of certain things. I'm beginning to think you don't watch much Steeler football and if you do you just completely ignore the injury factor for an explanation in the drop of on field production.
Homotron said:
Do you actually watch and follow the Steelers? Where was Harrison, Woodley and Timmon's last year? HOWEVER you can 100% expect a better team when those players are healthy.As far as Clark is concerned he lead our team in tackles and had the best season of his career with the Steelers.
You also COMPLETELY made up the Big Ben part about the playbook UNLESS you're talking about his opinion of the media and Haley.
Timmons was in the line-up all year. He had almost no impact playing at either inside or outside linebacker. He wasn't paid $50M to be ineffective. He's been in the system for several years now and he's a highly paid player, he should be able to adjust or at least play his "primary" position effectively. He did neither.
Woodley had no impact on any games until the last 2 of the regular season as I recall. If he's healthy enough to play, he should be healthy enough to make an impact. If he's not he shouldn't be on the field. Harrison was practically invisible when he wasn't getting suspended. His orbital frature effected the first half of the season, where was he the second half? Wah! Injuries made 'em play bad. BS!
You don't see a problem with Clark leading the team in tackles? The reason he led the team in tackles is because the linebackers performed so poorly the opponents were getting to the secondary more often than they should have been. Clark is old and slow.
Go read the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article about Ben and graduation. He was quoted as saying something to the effect of "learning the new playbook is harder than getting my education degree, it's like a whole new language." Further, he talked about how far everyone on the offense was behind because of the new playbook.
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And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
Proud fan of the Buffalo Bills and Cleveland Browns. -
And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
Lol
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So as usual all the talking heads are saying we have no team and Weeden will get raped by the Ravens etc. etc.
It's no secret that this franchise is a joke but why do they have to always talk garbage on Cleveland as a city?
We have more culture, hotter women, more jobs and less crime than Pittsburgh. Can they just get over themselves? All I hear are people talking about how much we, collectively, suck.
If this were the south in the 50s we'd be the oppressed black people. So sick of this crap. Up yours ESPN
So as usual all the talking heads are saying we have no team and Weeden will get raped by the Ravens etc. etc.
It's no secret that this franchise is a joke but why do they have to always talk garbage on Cleveland as a city?
We have more culture, hotter women, more jobs and less crime than Pittsburgh. Can they just get over themselves? All I hear are people talking about how much we, collectively, suck.
If this were the south in the 50s we'd be the oppressed black people. So sick of this crap. Up yours ESPN
Translation: Wah wah wah, why am I a fan of this team, but complain about every move we make and have worn out my welcome as a poster on this board in less than a week.
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So as usual all the talking heads are saying we have no team and Weeden will get raped by the Ravens etc. etc.
It's no secret that this franchise is a joke but why do they have to always talk garbage on Cleveland as a city?
We have more culture, hotter women, more jobs and less crime than Pittsburgh. Can they just get over themselves? All I hear are people talking about how much we, collectively, suck.
If this were the south in the 50s we'd be the oppressed black people. So sick of this crap. Up yours ESPN
1. You Cleveland folks always measure yourself against Pittsburgh, while we could give a fuck less about you.
2. Unemployment rate in Cleveland is 10.3%, in Pittsburgh it is much lower at 7.3%
3. Crime rates in Cleveland are in fact MUCH higher. 1296 per 100,000 people in Cleveland are subjected to violent crimes per year while the number is only 896 per 100k are in Pittsburgh.
4. Pittsburgh is annually ranked as one of, if not the most liveable cities in the US. Pittsburgh Most Liveable
5. Cleveland on the other hand was named "Most Miserable City in the US" Cleveland is Miserable
6. Hotter women and more culture is difficult to measure, but most objective observers would say both cities are similar in those departments, but Pittsburgh clearly has younger and hotter women.
Too easy. I could go on, but that would just be piling on, beating a dead horse, or Clevelanding a Clevelander.....
1. You Cleveland folks always measure yourself against Pittsburgh, while we could give a fuck less about you.
Really? Obviously not. You are here, constantly. So clearly it is you who measure yourself against us.
2. Unemployment rate in Cleveland is 10.3%, in Pittsburgh it is much lower at 7.3%
3. Crime rates in Cleveland are in fact MUCH higher. 1296 per 100,000 people in Cleveland are subjected to violent crimes per year while the number is only 896 per 100k are in Pittsburgh.
4. Pittsburgh is annually ranked as one of, if not the most liveable cities in the US. Pittsburgh Most Liveable
5. Cleveland on the other hand was named "Most Miserable City in the US" Cleveland is Miserable
6. Hotter women and more culture is difficult to measure, but most objective observers would say both cities are similar in those departments, but Pittsburgh clearly has younger and hotter women.
Too easy. I could go on, but that would just be piling on, beating a dead horse, or Clevelanding a Clevelander.....
And, clearly I could site magazine articles and statistics that say the very opposite.
Why the inferiority complex? Because you are inferior?
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2, 3 and 4 cannot be argued. I've already said I'm done playing along with these type of posts. You should do the same and they may disappear from the board all together.
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2, 3 and 4 cannot be argued. I've already said I'm done playing along with these type of posts. You should do the same and they may disappear from the board all together.
Homotron said:
2, 3 and 4 cannot be argued. I've already said I'm done playing along with these type of posts. You should do the same and they may disappear from the board all together.
Sure they can be argued. I don't know how valid these stats are, pulled from the ether.
Here is the latest unemployment stat showing that the Cleveland/Elyria MSA. has one of the lowest unemployment rates in Ohio at 7.1 percent per US Dept. of Labor stats, the exact same as Pittsburgh:
http://ohiolmi.com/laus/Ranking.pdf
http://data.bls.gov/map/MapToolServlet
The Youngstown/Sharon area, which borders both the Cleveland and Pittsburg MSAs, is at 8.6.
So, the answer is: absolutely those stats can be challenged. I just did.
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As far as the Forbes article. I did some further investigation into that and I found their condlusions completely flawed. Why?
Because I analyzed their 9 or 10 elements, things like crime rate, pollution, congestion, poor sports team performance, Unemployment, etc. and I found that in fact Cleveland ranked better in 9 of the 10 categories than at least one other city they had high on their list:
San Diego had a higher crime rate, more unemployment, more congestion, more pollution, worse teams...etc. etc.
Cleveland only scored worse on one category: Winter weather. That was it.
The ONLY factor that mattered to them was the winter weather.
Cleveland scored better than San Diego on 9 of 10...yet it was the one basket they put all their eggs into.
So don't tell me how valid those rankings are. They are crap.
And they are contradictory...they say Cleveland is worse for having less population, thus less congestion, yet congestion is one of the things they measure?
You can go to the Barbershop Forum for some of my results on that.
(San Diego is a quite a bit larger market than Cleveland, yet it could not keep its basketball team, and its sports teams haven't won since 1963....and have had fewer Finals appearances than Cleveland's teams).
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I don't care to dig in to any of this any further and those statistics that I've seen in the past are comparing county to county so Allegheny for Pittsburgh and whatever the county is for Cleveland. As far as the city vs city stuff is concerned Gipper you have to be one of the biggest contributors to the sh.it show. If you just backed it off and didn't ramble like you almost always do these moronic discussions would start and die in minutes.
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I don't care to dig in to any of this any further and those statistics that I've seen in the past are comparing county to county so Allegheny for Pittsburgh and whatever the county is for Cleveland. As far as the city vs city stuff is concerned Gipper you have to be one of the biggest contributors to the sh.it show. If you just backed it off and didn't ramble like you almost always do these moronic discussions would start and die in minutes.
Homotron said:
I don't care to dig in to any of this any further and those statistics that I've seen in the past are comparing county to county so Allegheny for Pittsburgh and whatever the county is for Cleveland. As far as the city vs city stuff is concerned Gipper you have to be one of the biggest contributors to the sh.it show. If you just backed it off and didn't ramble like you almost always do these moronic discussions would start and die in minutes.
If You garlic breathed pukes from Pittsburgh want to show your fat ugly faces on this board, you are just going to have to take the shit that is shoveled your way in response to your own bullshit. You can dish it but can't take it? If don't like the retrubution that comes your way, go sit at the sissy boy table while we men compare penis sizes.
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Homotron said:
I don't care to dig in to any of this any further and those statistics that I've seen in the past are comparing county to county so Allegheny for Pittsburgh and whatever the county is for Cleveland. As far as the city vs city stuff is concerned Gipper you have to be one of the biggest contributors to the sh.it show. If you just backed it off and didn't ramble like you almost always do these moronic discussions would start and die in minutes.
If You garlic breathed pukes from Pittsburgh want to show your fat ugly faces on this board, you are just going to have to take the shit that is shoveled your way in response to your own bullshit. You can dish it but can't take it? If don't like the retrubution that comes your way, go sit at the sissy boy table while we men compare penis sizes.
If You garlic breathed pukes from Pittsburgh want to show your fat ugly faces on this board, you are just going to have to take the shit that is shoveled your way in response to your own bullshit. You can dish it but can't take it? If don't like the retrubution that comes your way, go sit at the sissy boy table while we men compare penis sizes.
I didn't start the city vs city BS you pompous dip sh.it. I can take it plenty and dish it by the truck load. I merely suggested you try and follow suit and if that isn't something you're willing to do knock yourself out. I'm done wasting my time, you're free to waste yours. Also where the xxxx do you come up with these insults? Garlic breath? Seriously. xxxxing garlic breath? If I couldn't dish it or take it I would have left a long time ago no? You give yourself a hell of a lot more credit than you deserve on this board. You spend more time fighting with Steeler fans or people upset with the Browns than you do discussing your own team. I'd have at least 500 less posts if you'd just disappear from the sh.it show posts yet you're here bitching about a division rival presence. (You fuel it) You roll in to these threads under the impression that anything you say should be taken as "gospel". xxxxing garlic breathed.......... lmao. You're funny old timer.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
Ahhh thats just absolutely the best shit ive seen on here! Made me literally LOL....not easy to do! GREAT POST
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With your input, this post could be even better 💗
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