Weeden Vs Mccoy
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I'm a outsider looking in so don't jump my bones here. I'm a Vikings fan and feel your pain at QB. I understand stats don't tell the tale (TJACK) but why did you guys give up on McCoy so early? Look at 90+% of all Hall of Fame QBs and they all have slow starts in their career. McCoy was progressing it seemed, not regressing. 14TD 11int his last season in 13 games. Not much to throw to. I from the beginning never thought Weeden would do anything in the NFL. I'm not writing him off but his first game didn't surprise me at all and I don't think he will work out.
So why Weeden over McCoy and did most fans agree with this? Just curious from a big football fan. Thanks
Short answer- Holmgren decided McCoy doesn't have the arm strength to make all the throws.
Did I agree with drafting Weeden @ #22? NO. As was said, take Reif- we needed a RT far more than a 29 year old project qb, who would have probably been there in round 2. R-E-A-C-H.
BTW, taking Richardson @ #3 + giving up picks in the process was another reach in my book. He had better turn out at least LaDanian Tomlinson good to justify his draft position.
Short answer- Holmgren decided McCoy doesn't have the arm strength to make all the throws.
Did I agree with drafting Weeden @ #22? NO. As was said, take Reif- we needed a RT far more than a 29 year old project qb, who would have probably been there in round 2. R-E-A-C-H.
BTW, taking Richardson @ #3 + giving up picks in the process was another reach in my book. He had better turn out at least LaDanian Tomlinson good to justify his draft position.
I agree with you, but when will Holmgren be accountable for his many mistakes?
Did he do anything good after joining the Browns?
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We are making this too complicated. Weeden sucks. He needs to be benched - not only will this be good for the Browns, it will be good for charity. Help feed the hungry in Cleveland, bench Weeden! Join me in donating $10 to the Cleveland Foodbank when Weeden gets benched https://www.snoball.com/give/2cmyd
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We are making this too complicated. Weeden sucks. He needs to be benched - not only will this be good for the Browns, it will be good for charity. Help feed the hungry in Cleveland, bench Weeden! Join me in donating $10 to the Cleveland Foodbank when Weeden gets benched https://www.snoball.com/give/2cmyd
We are making this too complicated. Weeden sucks. He needs to be benched - not only will this be good for the Browns, it will be good for charity. Help feed the hungry in Cleveland, bench Weeden! Join me in donating $10 to the Cleveland Foodbank when Weeden gets benched https://www.snoball.com/give/2cmyd
Dude ... we JUST drafted him. He had ONE start.
Yes, it was abysmal, but don't be the guy calling for the rookie QB's head after one start.
I like that Shurmur is showing balls with Weeden, he is either going to sink or swim with him. Let it play out ...
Zombo
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The thing/problem is that it is still a fact that some young QBs (even young/old QBs) still need some time to develop....and perhaps for some sitting/watching/learning is still good.
Not EVERY first round QB should be expected to start right off.
BK was given half a year to sit behind Danielson. That worked.
Couch was in after one game. That didn't work.
Maybe Weeden should have followed the BK example for max efficiency.
Difficult to say. I know that it is a theory to throw the newbie in right away and let him sink or swim. Maybe that is NOT always the best method.
OK, Weeden sunk his first game. He needs to start treading water this next game at least...and then he can think about taking on Michael Phelps.
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The thing/problem is that it is still a fact that some young QBs (even young/old QBs) still need some time to develop....and perhaps for some sitting/watching/learning is still good.
Not EVERY first round QB should be expected to start right off.
BK was given half a year to sit behind Danielson. That worked.
Couch was in after one game. That didn't work.
Maybe Weeden should have followed the BK example for max efficiency.
Difficult to say. I know that it is a theory to throw the newbie in right away and let him sink or swim. Maybe that is NOT always the best method.
OK, Weeden sunk his first game. He needs to start treading water this next game at least...and then he can think about taking on Michael Phelps.
OK, Weeden sunk his first game. He needs to start treading water this next game at least...and then he can think about taking on Michael Phelps.
Not Phelps... Phipps...
And Z, it hasn't been "one game". Wheeeedon showed only brief, and I mean really brief, flashes of promise in the pre-season.
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We are making this too complicated. Weeden sucks. He needs to be benched - not only will this be good for the Browns, it will be good for charity. Help feed the hungry in Cleveland, bench Weeden! Join me in donating $10 to the Cleveland Foodbank when Weeden gets benched https://www.snoball.com/give/2cmyd
Dude ... we JUST drafted him. He had ONE start.
Yes, it was abysmal, but don't be the guy calling for the rookie QB's head after one start.
I like that Shurmur is showing balls with Weeden, he is either going to sink or swim with him. Let it play out ...
Zombo
Zombo said:
Dude ... we JUST drafted him. He had ONE start.
Yes, it was abysmal, but don't be the guy calling for the rookie QB's head after one start.
I like that Shurmur is showing balls with Weeden, he is either going to sink or swim with him. Let it play out ...
Zombo
let me preface this by saying the weeden pick was a wasted pick IMO. we weren't going to make it to the playoffs anyways. i thought we would give mccoy some 'real' weapons so he could get a 'real' evaluation.
BUT i agree with zombo 100%. what is done is done and we have to ride this wave. however i don't know what will happen if he stinks up from here to let's say game 7. do they bench him and then say "he''ll learn from the sidelines etc." and put mccoy in? i don't know about that. BUT i do know that a lot of people's jobs will be scrutinized on weeden's pick. good or bad.
now i'll say this. please DO NOT DRAFT ANOTHER QB NEXT YEAR!!!!! sure there are guys that will be available next year that stir my interest. barkley not so much. collin klein does....from kstate looks like a mix of flacco with the running ability the broke big 12 records last year. and he's a senior. BUT it's the big 12 and we have 2 guys now on the roster from that conference that people think suck. so instead can we draft a #1 reciever who catches everything, some defensive help where needed and some OL depth?
picking a sure thing QB has got to be the toughest thing in football unless they're named luck or griffin.
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I'm just so bumfuzzled as to how this particular organization can swing and miss so many times when it comes to building an offense. We all know that Weeden was a bad pick for the Browns. It just didn't fit. They should have let Colt have another year instead of drafting a 28 year old "needs to be good now because of his age" QB. They drafted a great RB but from the looks of it he will never get beyond the line of scrimmage because of the weak o-line.
I don't pretend to have all the answers but i wish the people that get paid would come up with a few.
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Part of the reason Griffin has been so successful is because Shanahan has adopted much of Baylor's system and playbook, in order to make the transition easier. Also, I like the idea of stacking plays.
Shanahan is making it easier for his QB, whereas Weedon has been learning an entirely new system completely different than what he was used to running. I'm not taking anything away from RG3 because his performance was steller, but at the same time he has a lot less of a learning curve than Weedon.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I'm just so bumfuzzled as to how this particular organization can swing and miss so many times when it comes to building an offense. We all know that Weeden was a bad pick for the Browns. It just didn't fit. They should have let Colt have another year instead of drafting a 28 year old "needs to be good now because of his age" QB. They drafted a great RB but from the looks of it he will never get beyond the line of scrimmage because of the weak o-line.
I don't pretend to have all the answers but i wish the people that get paid would come up with a few.
I'm just so bumfuzzled as to how this particular organization can swing and miss so many times when it comes to building an offense. We all know that Weeden was a bad pick for the Browns. It just didn't fit. They should have let Colt have another year instead of drafting a 28 year old "needs to be good now because of his age" QB. They drafted a great RB but from the looks of it he will never get beyond the line of scrimmage because of the weak o-line.
I don't pretend to have all the answers but i wish the people that get paid would come up with a few.
We all don't know that Weeden was a bad pick. He has had one fricking game in the NFL for crissakes. His first game wasn't reall much worse than a couple of guys named Elway and Manning.
If you want to jump off a bridge...go ahead, but not for this reason.
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Part of the reason Griffin has been so successful is because Shanahan has adopted much of Baylor's system and playbook, in order to make the transition easier. Also, I like the idea of stacking plays.
Shanahan is making it easier for his QB, whereas Weedon has been learning an entirely new system completely different than what he was used to running. I'm not taking anything away from RG3 because his performance was steller, but at the same time he has a lot less of a learning curve than Weedon.
Part of the reason Griffin has been so successful is because Shanahan has adopted much of Baylor's system and playbook, in order to make the transition easier. Also, I like the idea of stacking plays.
Shanahan is making it easier for his QB, whereas Weedon has been learning an entirely new system completely different than what he was used to running. I'm not taking anything away from RG3 because his performance was steller, but at the same time he has a lot less of a learning curve than Weedon.
Absolutely. As I have said in prior posts, Shurmur is not going to adapt his system to his talent....he demands the talent adapt to his system.
Its called arrogance.
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Part of the reason Griffin has been so successful is because Shanahan has adopted much of Baylor's system and playbook, in order to make the transition easier. Also, I like the idea of stacking plays.
Shanahan is making it easier for his QB, whereas Weedon has been learning an entirely new system completely different than what he was used to running. I'm not taking anything away from RG3 because his performance was steller, but at the same time he has a lot less of a learning curve than Weedon.
Absolutely. As I have said in prior posts, Shurmur is not going to adapt his system to his talent....he demands the talent adapt to his system.
Its called arrogance.
Absolutely. As I have said in prior posts, Shurmur is not going to adapt his system to his talent....he demands the talent adapt to his system.
Its called arrogance.
Um that starts with Holmgren. His brilliant idea a WCO can work in a smashmouth defensive minded division featuring the Ravens and Steelers.
Just great- we can Holmie and Un-Sure-mur, it's back to square one. Again. This rinse, wash, repeat cycle is getting really, really old.
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Is it arrogance? Or is it that the WCO is all Shurmur knows, and it seems he cannot even get that right.
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Absolutely. As I have said in prior posts, Shurmur is not going to adapt his system to his talent....he demands the talent adapt to his system.
Its called arrogance.
Um that starts with Holmgren. His brilliant idea a WCO can work in a smashmouth defensive minded division featuring the Ravens and Steelers.
Just great- we can Holmie and Un-Sure-mur, it's back to square one. Again. This rinse, wash, repeat cycle is getting really, really old.
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yeah well i said it the day holmgren was hired. so there.
october can't come soon enough.
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yeah well i said it the day holmgren was hired. so there.
october can't come soon enough.
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We all know Weeden is going to need time and is going to look bad, hopefully not any worse.
It was just the overwhelming amount of bad things we seen.
In order for Richardson to have a game equivalent to Weeden's he'd have to fumble a few times and fall and curl up into the fetal position every time someone tried to tackle him.
And I hate to say it, surprised no one has really said this yet but, if McCoy starts that game Browns are 1-0.
What happens if Weeden keeps up this less than expected play and the Browns are 0-6 or whatever when Haslam takes over.
Not only the fan and media but the players are going to be pissed off and calling for McCoy, along with a new president coming in Shurmur could be gone by the bye week.
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yeah well i said it the day holmgren was hired. so there.
october can't come soon enough.
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I'm just so bumfuzzled as to how this particular organization can swing and miss so many times when it comes to building an offense. We all know that Weeden was a bad pick for the Browns. It just didn't fit. They should have let Colt have another year instead of drafting a 28 year old "needs to be good now because of his age" QB. They drafted a great RB but from the looks of it he will never get beyond the line of scrimmage because of the weak o-line.
I don't pretend to have all the answers but i wish the people that get paid would come up with a few.
We all don't know that Weeden was a bad pick. He has had one fricking game in the NFL for crissakes. His first game wasn't reall much worse than a couple of guys named Elway and Manning.
If you want to jump off a bridge...go ahead, but not for this reason.
We all don't know that Weeden was a bad pick. He has had one fricking game in the NFL for crissakes. His first game wasn't reall much worse than a couple of guys named Elway and Manning.
If you want to jump off a bridge...go ahead, but not for this reason.
Jump off a bridge....nice cliche response.
My opinion is the Browns have wasted a first round pick on a 28 year old QB.
Let me ask you this???? Did you say that is just one game when it was Quinn and McCoy? Did you say let's give Quinn and McCoy the benefit of the doubt and let it play out. You probably did..........how'd that work out for ya?
My point is........the Browns have a track record of missing the boat when it comes to improving the offense. Until they prove me wrong.......i am right.
If the Browns were spot on then Quinn would be our starting Qb and we wouldn't be bitching about Weeden. Record speaks for itself.
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I think too many people play Fantasy Football. They get it in their heads thinking how easy it is to draft good quality players that truly fit their style offense and defense, knowing that the jump from college ball to the pros is as big as it is. Problem is, their job/livelihood/life isn't wrapped up in the level of pressure that dictates what they are responsible for each and every day that they wake up. Holmgren is the ONLY one that I really feel has the option of not caring (even though I still think he does) whether this team is a dud or not, because he will still get paid either way.
Besides the fact that Weeden looks like he has a bulls eye painted on his chest, I still feel that it will come together once he develops a good relationship with his receivers. Anyone want to take a stab at the difference between Aaron Rogers of last year and the QB of the Packers this year??? Dropped balls. I said it time and again last year, if his receivers weren't bailing him out as often as they did they would look like any other team. Look at the Browns of '07. Was DA amazing, or did it really have more to do with us having BE, KWII, and Joe J bailing him out consistently?
As was previously stated on this thread, McCoy is a great football player with a huge heart. I still feel he will develop as time goes on and become a very good QB. But his time isn't now on this team. Even if Haslam comes in and blows it all up look for McCoy to be traded or backup to someone next season as well.
I also want to see us win win win, but realistically this isn't the year and I don't see the FO believing this was the year either...
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(Drunk again) I find it silly in a wayt to read some posts like where one said: because we already know McCOy doesn't have the skills to be a successful NFL Quarterback." In the very next posrt the same person said: Hey, not everyone starts out great. Look at our famous TE Eric Hieden. IT TOOK HIM A COUPLE YEARS to come into his own. I didn't hear a single Browns saying " we need to cut Eric Hieden". Did you? No, you didn't." Now...sure Colt had a full year but it was under a new head coach with a new offense to leartn and no offseason/talent to throw to/pimched nerve in throwing shoulder/ no Oline (you know all the "excuses"). Now many of us want the front office gone because we cant stand them, yet say "Holmgren fdoesnt think Colt has the arm". What the hell is going on here, its very difficult to cmprehend unless im just reading two posts at once.
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