Switch To 3-4
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Here is how I see it:
DE: Phil Taylor/Hughes
NT: Aytabu Rubin/Kitchen
DE: Rucker/Winn
Jack: Sheard-Essentially 4th DL but can help in coverage in passing downs
Mike: DQ-Essentially your MLB in 4-3 and leader
Buck: JMJ/Gocong-Run support primarily and some pass coverage
Will: ??Roberston/Fort-Various responsibilities including pass rush and coverage
Our biggest weakspots are obviously in the LB corps most glaringly the Will LB and lack of depth. It might not be as painful as I previously thought, but with our holes in the secondary, it would take some work to get all of the personnel needed to fill in at CB, FS, and get a Will LB and LB depth. I am not sure how Sheard would do as the Jack LB but he did spend some of this season standing up and dropping into coverage if you watched closely.
Our sack leader (Sheard) should only be put in for PASS COVERAGE? You are out of your mind..
Our sack leader (Sheard) should only be put in for PASS COVERAGE? You are out of your mind..
Please actually read what I write before responding and calling me crazy. Or at least google Jack LB and learn what the responsibilities of that position are. This reminds me of the saying: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you hear.
Phil Taylor - Rubin -Sheard - Billy Winn - John Hughes - DQ Jackson -Kaluka -GoCong - Eight... That's 8 guys on the interior that I can think of off the top of my head that are worth keeping on the roster in some way. There are a couple of other guys that have potential but have yet to solidify a spot or step away from the crowd. Guys like Robinson, Fort, "the other Jackson", and Acho still have a lot to prove. As well, in the secondary there are many spots 'up in the air'. Free Safety, CB #2, 3, and 4.The point of a defense is to stop the offense.. I don't care if it's a 3-4, 4-3, 4-6 or a 2-5 - just find a way to stop the offense. Get the best players and put them out there. STOP SOMEBODY. Don't get caught in the trap of comformity, use what you're given in a creative way and stop them.
I am a fan of keeping Gocong around for run stopping support depth, depth, and veteran leadership, but Maiava is very underwhelming. He is too small and rarely makes plays. I am much higher on JMJ than him. I think Kitchen has shown flashes this year as well, and deserves mention. Paker and Rucker have been decent additions too. They were solid role players this year, especially once Big Phil and Aytaba were both healthy in the middle of the line.
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Our sack leader (Sheard) should only be put in for PASS COVERAGE? You are out of your mind..
Please actually read what I write before responding and calling me crazy. Or at least google Jack LB and learn what the responsibilities of that position are. This reminds me of the saying: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you hear.
Phil Taylor - Rubin -Sheard - Billy Winn - John Hughes - DQ Jackson -Kaluka -GoCong - Eight... That's 8 guys on the interior that I can think of off the top of my head that are worth keeping on the roster in some way. There are a couple of other guys that have potential but have yet to solidify a spot or step away from the crowd. Guys like Robinson, Fort, "the other Jackson", and Acho still have a lot to prove. As well, in the secondary there are many spots 'up in the air'. Free Safety, CB #2, 3, and 4.The point of a defense is to stop the offense.. I don't care if it's a 3-4, 4-3, 4-6 or a 2-5 - just find a way to stop the offense. Get the best players and put them out there. STOP SOMEBODY. Don't get caught in the trap of comformity, use what you're given in a creative way and stop them.
I am a fan of keeping Gocong around for run stopping support depth, depth, and veteran leadership, but Maiava is very underwhelming. He is too small and rarely makes plays. I am much higher on JMJ than him. I think Kitchen has shown flashes this year as well, and deserves mention. Paker and Rucker have been decent additions too. They were solid role players this year, especially once Big Phil and Aytaba were both healthy in the middle of the line.
Please actually read what I write before responding and calling me crazy. Or at least google Jack LB and learn what the responsibilities of that position are. This reminds me of the saying: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you hear.
I am a fan of keeping Gocong around for run stopping support depth, depth, and veteran leadership, but Maiava is very underwhelming. He is too small and rarely makes plays. I am much higher on JMJ than him. I think Kitchen has shown flashes this year as well, and deserves mention. Paker and Rucker have been decent additions too. They were solid role players this year, especially once Big Phil and Aytaba were both healthy in the middle of the line.
Ok, so your saying that you want to put Sheard in at Jack LB, which you are saying is the side that normally is reserved for pass coverage? Regardless it is a stupid idea. BTW Maiava did well his rookie season the games he played at MLB. There is a huge difference between his play in a 4-3 on the outside and his play in the 3-4 on the inside.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
Switching to the 3-4 base would be dumb. Taking a player off the field from our deepest position and putting one our weakest in just doesn't make sense.
IF Sheard is able to adjust to OLB (and thats a big if) then maybe, but DQ was not good in 3-4 and neither was Gocong. Hopefully our new DC and Chud are able to recognize what works and not try to force a square peg in a round hole. We have athleticism at LB just not sure theres enough size, strength, or talent.
Switching to the 3-4 base would be dumb. Taking a player off the field from our deepest position and putting one our weakest in just doesn't make sense.
IF Sheard is able to adjust to OLB (and thats a big if) then maybe, but DQ was not good in 3-4 and neither was Gocong. Hopefully our new DC and Chud are able to recognize what works and not try to force a square peg in a round hole. We have athleticism at LB just not sure theres enough size, strength, or talent.
My problem with the browns D is still line backing and secondary...the Dline could use a speed rusher at end..not sure the Rucker and Sheard are it but perform solidly. We need more speed on the perimeter. I think this is gonna be one of these drafts that no matter what positions we draft for in the first round...Its gonna help...Maybe not instantly...but it will help .
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Colt is done with the Browns. The head coach wants a vertcle attacking offense. Colt can't throw the ball out of his own shadow, he's done in Cleveland.
Rumors are that Chud may even be willing to bring back DA as a backup. Whattaya think of that?
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Rumors are that Chud may even be willing to bring back DA as a backup. Whattaya think of that?
Shoot me now!!!
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Please actually read what I write before responding and calling me crazy. Or at least google Jack LB and learn what the responsibilities of that position are. This reminds me of the saying: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you hear.
I am a fan of keeping Gocong around for run stopping support depth, depth, and veteran leadership, but Maiava is very underwhelming. He is too small and rarely makes plays. I am much higher on JMJ than him. I think Kitchen has shown flashes this year as well, and deserves mention. Paker and Rucker have been decent additions too. They were solid role players this year, especially once Big Phil and Aytaba were both healthy in the middle of the line.
Ok, so your saying that you want to put Sheard in at Jack LB, which you are saying is the side that normally is reserved for pass coverage? Regardless it is a stupid idea. BTW Maiava did well his rookie season the games he played at MLB. There is a huge difference between his play in a 4-3 on the outside and his play in the 3-4 on the inside.
Ok, so your saying that you want to put Sheard in at Jack LB, which you are saying is the side that normally is reserved for pass coverage? Regardless it is a stupid idea. BTW Maiava did well his rookie season the games he played at MLB. There is a huge difference between his play in a 4-3 on the outside and his play in the 3-4 on the inside.
OK let's try this again. The Jack LB is essentially a fourth DL (which, again, if you would have taken two seconds to look up in google you would know)except in some passing situations where he would drop into coverage which he already was doing this year at times. Secondly, I never once said that I wanted them to change to a 3-4. I just gave my evaluation of how I see it breaking down and commented that it might not be as painful as I first thought it would be. Reading comprehension in this thread is at an all time low.
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Rumors are that Chud may even be willing to bring back DA as a backup. Whattaya think of that?
In the words of Lumbergh: "Backup my ass!"
Zombo
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Back on topic:
"Browns targeting John Pagano as their new defensive coordinator, ESPN reports" = 3 - 4 Defense
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Ok, so your saying that you want to put Sheard in at Jack LB, which you are saying is the side that normally is reserved for pass coverage? Regardless it is a stupid idea. BTW Maiava did well his rookie season the games he played at MLB. There is a huge difference between his play in a 4-3 on the outside and his play in the 3-4 on the inside.
OK let's try this again. The Jack LB is essentially a fourth DL (which, again, if you would have taken two seconds to look up in google you would know)except in some passing situations where he would drop into coverage which he already was doing this year at times. Secondly, I never once said that I wanted them to change to a 3-4. I just gave my evaluation of how I see it breaking down and commented that it might not be as painful as I first thought it would be. Reading comprehension in this thread is at an all time low.
OK let's try this again. The Jack LB is essentially a fourth DL (which, again, if you would have taken two seconds to look up in google you would know)except in some passing situations where he would drop into coverage which he already was doing this year at times. Secondly, I never once said that I wanted them to change to a 3-4. I just gave my evaluation of how I see it breaking down and commented that it might not be as painful as I first thought it would be. Reading comprehension in this thread is at an all time low.
Your right, Sheard who dropped back into coverage about twice a game and had no impact in that regard would be perfect for the position. Fact of the matter is that Sheard does not do well in space which is something that EITHER OLB will need to do in the new 3-4. He would need to lose weight to have any chance and even then I do not think a career 4-3 DE of his athletism, while good enough in a 4-3, will be able to make an impact in the 3-4.
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OK let's try this again. The Jack LB is essentially a fourth DL (which, again, if you would have taken two seconds to look up in google you would know)except in some passing situations where he would drop into coverage which he already was doing this year at times. Secondly, I never once said that I wanted them to change to a 3-4. I just gave my evaluation of how I see it breaking down and commented that it might not be as painful as I first thought it would be. Reading comprehension in this thread is at an all time low.
Your right, Sheard who dropped back into coverage about twice a game and had no impact in that regard would be perfect for the position. Fact of the matter is that Sheard does not do well in space which is something that EITHER OLB will need to do in the new 3-4. He would need to lose weight to have any chance and even then I do not think a career 4-3 DE of his athletism, while good enough in a 4-3, will be able to make an impact in the 3-4.
Your right, Sheard who dropped back into coverage about twice a game and had no impact in that regard would be perfect for the position. Fact of the matter is that Sheard does not do well in space which is something that EITHER OLB will need to do in the new 3-4. He would need to lose weight to have any chance and even then I do not think a career 4-3 DE of his athletism, while good enough in a 4-3, will be able to make an impact in the 3-4.
Sheard is similar in size (height/weight) to Brian Orakpo and Terrell Suggs for example. It is my opinion that the jury is out on whether or not he can cover in space because we have not seen him do it enough.
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Your right, Sheard who dropped back into coverage about twice a game and had no impact in that regard would be perfect for the position. Fact of the matter is that Sheard does not do well in space which is something that EITHER OLB will need to do in the new 3-4. He would need to lose weight to have any chance and even then I do not think a career 4-3 DE of his athletism, while good enough in a 4-3, will be able to make an impact in the 3-4.
Sheard is similar in size (height/weight) to Brian Orakpo and Terrell Suggs for example. It is my opinion that the jury is out on whether or not he can cover in space because we have not seen him do it enough.
Sheard is similar in size (height/weight) to Brian Orakpo and Terrell Suggs for example. It is my opinion that the jury is out on whether or not he can cover in space because we have not seen him do it enough.
And as mentioned he does not have the athleticism of the two players you just mentioned. This is why I say Taylor can play DE in the 3-4 cause he had the athleticism needed to play there, Sheard does not have enough to play OLB.
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I'm so sick of starting over with new systems. When we had a 3-4 defense, we didn't have any above average LBs. We have run a 4-3 with no above average LBs.
I've been crying for LBs here since Clay Matthews & Mike Johnson.
Chud, good luck with whatever system you want to employ- just knock the opposing QB on his ass & we will win. Attack attack attack.
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When I first heard the Browns were considering going back to the 34, I cringed. It got a little better when I heard Chud say "hybrid". When you think about it, how many teams are running a true 34? Not many. Even NE isn't running the true 34 anymore. In today's NFL, a majority of defenses are in some form of nickel most of the time and are running out of an even front. I don't think they will be transitioning to a true 34 any time soon, if ever. If aggressive, it will take at least 2 drafts and a couple FA periods and >$40M. That's assuming there are 3 of the front 7 already on the team, which I don't think is the case. In a hybrid however, you could get some pieces in place over the next few years and be able to run any defense you want. To be thorough, it's probably important to understand the roles and prototypical player attributes to fit the 34. You can decide for yourself if the Browns have any of the personel on their roster. I got some of this from "Take Your Eye Off the Ball" by Pat Kirwan, a must read for football fans.
The 3-4 is based on the DL taking up 2 gaps each. It starts with the NT. he should be 6'2"-6'4', 350+lbs and long arms (Shaun Rogers). He needs to occupy th A gaps on either side of the center and should demand a double team on every play. The DE should be taller , but doesn't need to be as thick (Richard Seymour). Their job is to take care of the B and C gaps between the T and G on each side. The DL's responsibility is primarily to occupy as much of the OL as possible and keep blockers off the LBs. The ends are not pass rushers like in the 43. That's the job of the OLB. A solid mix of speed, power, and agility is the name of the game for the OLB (James Harrison, LT, etc). He needs to be able to rush the passer, cover the flat or hook zone, and seal the edge or persue in the run game. Undersized 43 DEs usually make the transition pretty easily to the 34. The ILBs should consist of two different types of LB. The strong ILB is a 6'3"-250lb thumper that can take on the guard with power (NYJ's Davis Harris). The weak side ILB doesn't need to be as big, because the weak side G will rarely get out on him. He'll be free to roam the line of scrimmage and make place in space (Ray Lewis).
The DBs role in the 34 vs the 43 isn't as defined, but from what I see, corners in the 34 are usually asked to play man and need to have solid cover skills. It's nice having a ball hawking FS roaming the middle of the field. Of course this is all in base defense, which as I stated off the top, teams aren't in nearly as much.
The other benefit that most don't think about, is the improvement you have on STs. Instead of having a plethora of DL, you have a stock-pile at LB that fill the coverage teams with speed and improved tackling ability.
I hope this helps.
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We need to look OLB first and foremost. The only person on the roster who might be able to play OLB in a 3-4 is Sheard and that is a very solid maybe. He would have to lose a bit of weight. We would be set on NT and DE. You take the quicker of Rubin and Taylor and put them into a DE spot and then start Billy Winn at the other open spot. We got Jackson, JMJ, Gocong, and Miavia in the middle. Just no depth for OLB.
Here's my bottom line...
Two years ago we ran Rob Ryan's 3-4 and our strength was at LB where it has to be in the 3-4. So what did we do? Hired Patsy and Jauron and scrapped the 3-4 for a 4-3 that we did not have the personnel to man. But....
Through two drafts and a couple of FA signings we improved our D-line to where it is the strength of the D as it should be in a 4-3. Simultaneously, although I like our young LB's, we've scrimped on the LB corps.
So naturally it's time to revert to the 3-4...
We need to look OLB first and foremost. The only person on the roster who might be able to play OLB in a 3-4 is Sheard and that is a very solid maybe. He would have to lose a bit of weight. We would be set on NT and DE. You take the quicker of Rubin and Taylor and put them into a DE spot and then start Billy Winn at the other open spot. We got Jackson, JMJ, Gocong, and Miavia in the middle. Just no depth for OLB.
No way Taylor is suited to DE in the 3-4.... he has the quicks, but not the speed. He is the prototypical NFL NT. Hughes or Rubin will be more than adequate in spelling him. Big question will be how they feel about accepting the NT role. Especially Hughes who had a bit of a malcontent rap coming out of college... although thank goodness it did not rear it's head in 2012.
Winn looks like a swing-man to me.... some NT some DE. Rucker works as a DE. Nothing says you cannot put Sheard down in a 3-point in passing situations no matter where you stand him up. Utilizing Parker is problematic in a 3-4.
LB's are problematic to say the least. I actually like DQ's speed for OLB (yes, the dead horse will be beaten.... again) and think Sheard's size might allow him to make it as a run-stuffing ILB ala Mike Vrabel, but his best use might be as trade material.
What I do not like is the size and/or speed of our other LB's for the 3-4. AS much as I like Robertson and to a lesser extent Fort, JMJ and the return of a healthy Acho might be our best bet from existing roster.
At best it'd be another two-years to put a respectable 3-4 on the field... but I believe Rob Ryan is available...
Hybrid sounds good to me.
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Sheard actually tested comparable (often better) than both Ryan Kerrigan and Aldon Smith at the 2011 combine. All three are within one inch and five lbs of each other. With Kerrigan and Smith having success in a 3-4, why not give Sheard a try for at least a year.
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