Bradley And Gay Released

Harry Buffalo

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I brought up the question of Horton and Gay's relationship in another thread but then did a little research and I expect Gay to end up here. Horton was a secondary coach for the Steelers when Gay was drafted, and then brought him with him to Arizona.

Bradley was originally drafted by the Eagles so there's a possible connection with Banner, but I don't forsee us trying to get him. He's barely recorded any stats since tearing his ACL and at this point in his career has been a bust. Interestingly enough, however, Sheldon Brown said Bradley reminded him of Urlacher in his size and athleticism. Maybe Bradley just needs a(nother) change of scenery to revamp his career.

With our needs at both LB and CB, I could see us adding both, but I really only expect us to sign Gay.

Athleticism only goes so far if you don't have the instincts and the technice to play the game. This guy has shown he doesn't have it. I would much better keep the likes of Austin English on the roster for another year to see how he performs as a 3-4 OLB or even look at resigning Benard. At least Benard has produced in the past.

CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS

We actually cut Benard who signed to the Pats and is listed as a DE now

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@harry-buffalo said:

Athleticism only goes so far if you don't have the instincts and the technice to play the game. This guy has shown he doesn't have it. I would much better keep the likes of Austin English on the roster for another year to see how he performs as a 3-4 OLB or even look at resigning Benard. At least Benard has produced in the past.

I don't think that's the case, I think it's more of a failed transition into a system he wasn't built for. He was All-Pro in the only season he was a full-time starter in, back in Philly's 4-3 scheme. The next season he blew out his ACL in the preseason and then subsequently signed with Arizona. Unfortunately, he didnt fare well in the 3-4, hence his "bust" status. I think a return to the 4-3 will do him well, and he is a good special teams player.

But, since we are moving back to a 3-4, I feel he won't be coming to Cleveland.

Harry Buffalo

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

We actually cut Benard who signed to the Pats and is listed as a DE now

I was aware he was cut, I was not aware that he actually resigned with anyone.

Zombo

Gay reportedly joining Steelers.

Good place for him snce they already have Rump Ranger at safety.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/william-gay-rejoining-steelers-677820/

Zombo

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@gerrydulac: Gay on possibly following DC Ray Horton to #Browns: "That's Cleveland. I don't know if I could have handled that."

At least he's honest. That's worth something.

It brings up what we've always known and still feared- players still don't want to come to Cleveland, no matter who's in charge. I'm starting to think that "making a splash" in FA for us is what we saw last year- a couple second-tier guys who are closer to 40 than 20 and just looking for some money to retire with.

Cleveland is a tough sell. It's cold, ugly, the river catches on fire, and we don't win games...in any sport. Until we turn things around, we will have to grossly overpay for top FA's, and even then we might not land them.

I'm not expecting us to make any large moves this offseason. But with a .500+ season this year and the unveiling of a new logo and uniforms next year, I can see us bringing in some unexpected talent next offseason.

Zombo

Good points but ...

The River doesn't catch on fire anymore. When it did, the team was good. Maybe that's how you reverse the curse ... Set the bitch on fire.

Z

The Gipper

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

@gerrydulac: Gay on possibly following DC Ray Horton to #Browns: "That's Cleveland. I don't know if I could have handled that."

At least he's honest. That's worth something.

It brings up what we've always known and still feared- players still don't want to come to Cleveland, no matter who's in charge. I'm starting to think that "making a splash" in FA for us is what we saw last year- a couple second-tier guys who are closer to 40 than 20 and just looking for some money to retire with.

Cleveland is a tough sell. It's cold, ugly, the river catches on fire, and we don't win games...in any sport. Until we turn things around, we will have to grossly overpay for top FA's, and even then we might not land them.

I'm not expecting us to make any large moves this offseason. But with a .500+ season this year and the unveiling of a new logo and uniforms next year, I can see us bringing in some unexpected talent next offseason.

Well, if our own people are going to practice dumbassery like you just did, how can the rest of the country get over their ignorance?

A. It in no colder here than it it is in Boston/NY/Philly/Pitt/Buffalo/Detroit/Cinci/Chicago/Indy/Milwaukee/Green Bay/St. Louis/KC/Denver.

The River catches on fire? Really? It hasn't caught on fire since probably before a lot of these players parents were born. And fyi, rivers caught on fire in just about every major industrial city.

And we haven't won since forever? Neither has San Diego/KC/Buffalo/Seattle/Portland/Charlotte/Columbus/Sacramento/Milwaukee/Salt Lake City/Ottawa/Vancouver/Winnipeg/Orlando. None of these towns have won a thing in the lifetime of a 25 year old. And Edmonton/Calgary/Cincinnati/Minneapolis/Washington DC/Montreal/Toronto...none of these cities have won a thing since a 25 year old was practically in diapers.

So, all of those arguments are specious.

It all comes down to having had bad ownership/management of the sports teams in this town.

Pure and simple as that.

Anyone that doesn't recognize that fact is a ignoramous.

DieHardBrownsFan

@the-gipper said:

Well, if our own people are going to practice dumbassery like you just did, how can the rest of the country get over their ignorance?

A. It in no colder here than it it is in Boston/NY/Philly/Pitt/Buffalo/Detroit/Cinci/Chicago/Indy/Milwaukee/Green Bay/St. Louis/KC/Denver.

The River catches on fire? Really? It hasn't caught on fire since probably before a lot of these players parents were born. And fyi, rivers caught on fire in just about every major industrial city.

And we haven't won since forever? Neither has San Diego/KC/Buffalo/Seattle/Portland/Charlotte/Columbus/Sacramento/Milwaukee/Salt Lake City/Ottawa/Vancouver/Winnipeg/Orlando. None of these towns have won a thing in the lifetime of a 25 year old. And Edmonton/Calgary/Cincinnati/Minneapolis/Washington DC/Montreal/Toronto...none of these cities have won a thing since a 25 year old was practically in diapers.

So, all of those arguments are specious.

It all comes down to having had bad ownership/management of the sports teams in this town.

Pure and simple as that.

Anyone that doesn't recognize that fact is a ignoramous.

Couch is from SC. That explains it.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@the-gipper said:

Well, if our own people are going to practice dumbassery like you just did, how can the rest of the country get over their ignorance?

A. It in no colder here than it it is in Boston/NY/Philly/Pitt/Buffalo/Detroit/Cinci/Chicago/Indy/Milwaukee/Green Bay/St. Louis/KC/Denver.

The River catches on fire? Really? It hasn't caught on fire since probably before a lot of these players parents were born. And fyi, rivers caught on fire in just about every major industrial city.

And we haven't won since forever? Neither has San Diego/KC/Buffalo/Seattle/Portland/Charlotte/Columbus/Sacramento/Milwaukee/Salt Lake City/Ottawa/Vancouver/Winnipeg/Orlando. None of these towns have won a thing in the lifetime of a 25 year old. And Edmonton/Calgary/Cincinnati/Minneapolis/Washington DC/Montreal/Toronto...none of these cities have won a thing since a 25 year old was practically in diapers.

So, all of those arguments are specious.

It all comes down to having had bad ownership/management of the sports teams in this town.

Pure and simple as that.

Anyone that doesn't recognize that fact is a ignoramous.

My introductory statement was more satirical than anything but judging by the way you took offense, I can see it struck a nerve, so lets run with it.

The point if bringing up the flaws of the city ( i.e. climate, hygiene, etc.) is to emphasize the fact that we're not bringing in FA purely based on the city itself. There's no amenities the city of Cleveland offers that other cities don't have. Nobody says "I want to go to Cleveland", just like nobody says "I want to go to Buffalo".

Many of those other cities that you listed which are in the same climate have more to offer...like winning teams. Cleveland does not. Therefore, we will have to over pay for our FA until we can establish a winning tradition.

I'm not sure what you were trying to prove by listing other teams that haven't won championships lately, but many of those "non-winning" teams you listed are still very good teams in their respective leagues. San Diego is a couple years removed from winning their division in consecutive years and have had multiple playoff appearances in the last decade. KC had more players selected to the Pro Bowl this year than we've had in the last three combined. Once again, I'm not sure what point you were trying to prove other than "Hey, we're not the only team that sucks!"

You can say what you want but the city of Cleveland has become a laughingstock to the rest of the country, and not just in sports.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Cleveland?from=Main.ClevelandRocks

The city is dying, the population has been a steady decrease for the last 60 years and the steel industry is not making a comeback. Those are facts.

Here's a good read that you should give some thought to:

http://www.alexmeske.com/Essays/cleveland.htm

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Couch is from SC. That explains it.

That could be it.

Call me crazy, but I would much rather live in a city with 40 miles of beaches and resorts that has been growing steadily over the last 30 years and exponentially in the last decade.

Golly gee, that must make me a dumber than a plum donkey in a pigpen.

By the way, not everyone from the South is a grass-chewin' inbred. There's a reason nobody moves north when they retire.

hoorta

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

That could be it.

Call me crazy, but I would much rather live in a city with 40 miles of beaches and resorts that has been growing steadily over the last 30 years and exponentially in the last decade.

Golly gee, that must make me a dumber than a plum donkey in a pigpen.

By the way, not everyone from the South is a grass-chewin' inbred. There's a reason nobody moves north when they retire.

Yup, everyone wants to live on the beach- until it looks like this. Then it's the big boo-hoo-hho.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@hoorta said:

Yup, everyone wants to live on the beach- until it looks like this. Then it's the big boo-hoo-hho.

I'd rather deal with five hurricanes than one snowstorm.

There's been one hurricane to do damage of any sort of lasting magnitude in my lifetime, and I was being born as it was ravaging the Grand Strand.

In most cases, you get a flooded yard and some tree branches on your roof.

Erie Dawg

Why is it that everyone from the south is lazy?

The Gipper

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

My introductory statement was more satirical than anything but judging by the way you took offense, I can see it struck a nerve, so lets run with it.

The point if bringing up the flaws of the city ( i.e. climate, hygiene, etc.) is to emphasize the fact that we're not bringing in FA purely based on the city itself. There's no amenities the city of Cleveland offers that other cities don't have. Nobody says "I want to go to Cleveland", just like nobody says "I want to go to Buffalo".

And I say that is Bullshit. FA's go where the money is. Again, that is pure and simple. Or they go to where they see a chance to win a championship. If we had competent management prepared to try to win a championship, the FAs would come here.

When the Indians finally decided to pay for a decent manager in Francona, they have now gotten some of the top FAs to come here in Swisher and Bourne. It took them spending and acting like they want to win.

Many of those other cities that you listed which are in the same climate have more to offer...like winning teams. Cleveland does not. Therefore, we will have to over pay for our FA until we can establish a winning tradition.

Right, having a "winning team/tradition" is everything. None of the rest of that shit matters like you think it does. And, again, having a winning team/tradition all comes down to competent ownership/management. Just like I said.

I'm not sure what you were trying to prove by listing other teams that haven't won championships lately, but many of those "non-winning" teams you listed are still very good teams in their respective leagues.

I showed that to demonstrate that the elements you talked about: weather/having an industrial past don't mean fucking shit.

San Diego is a couple years removed from winning their division in consecutive years and have had multiple playoff appearances in the last decade. KC had more players selected to the Pro Bowl this year than we've had in the last three combined. Once again, I'm not sure what point you were trying to prove other than "Hey, we're not the only team that sucks!"

The point is that San Diego, e.g. is considered to have the best weather in the nation, no industrial past. It is considered somewhat of a "glamour city", yet it has not won shit even as long as Cleveland. So, I demonstrated that weather and all that other bullshit mean don't mean dick. They couldn't even keep their basketball team.

They have had the same bad management/ownership...and some bad luck, just like Cleveland's teams have had. And that is what it is all about.

You can say what you want but the city of Cleveland has become a laughingstock to the rest of the country, and not just in sports.

OK, so, others practice dumbassery just like you. Do you belong to a "Dumbasses Club" or what?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Cleveland?from=Main.ClevelandRocks

The city is dying, the population has been a steady decrease for the last 60 years and the steel industry is not making a comeback. Those are facts.

So? You are staking your big claim on the steel industry. What century are you living in? No one has claimed the steel industry to be THE vital cog of the economy around here for at least 30 years. While some of us look forward you are looking to the past. Dumbassery.

Here's a good read that you should give some thought to:

http://www.alexmeske.com/Essays/cleveland.htm

The Gipper

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

That could be it.

Call me crazy, but I would much rather live in a city with 40 miles of beaches and resorts that has been growing steadily over the last 30 years and exponentially in the last decade.

Golly gee, that must make me a dumber than a plum donkey in a pigpen.

By the way, not everyone from the South is a grass-chewin' inbred. There's a reason nobody moves north when they retire.

You are not being a dumbass because you are from the South. You are a dumbass because you are acting like a dumbass.

And no, not all people from the South are grass-chewin inbred's. My father-in-law also lives in South Carolina...but, I can tell you that clearly there is still a segment of that population that still are grass-chewin inbreds. I didn't think you were among that crowd, but now I am beginning to wonder. (don't feel bad, there are grass/dirt/iron chewin inbreds even in the north)

The Gipper

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I'd rather deal with five hurricanes than one snowstorm.

There's been one hurricane to do damage of any sort of lasting magnitude in my lifetime, and I was being born as it was ravaging the Grand Strand.

In most cases, you get a flooded yard and some tree branches on your roof.

Well, now you have proven that you are a dumbass. We have 5 or 10 snowstorms a year. the snow has always melted. Maybe some people get some water in their basement or get a roof leak....but a snow storm won't blow your house into Albemarle Sound.

If I do go south to retire or whatever, it would probably be southwest.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@the-gipper said:

You are not being a dumbass because you are from the South. You are a dumbass because you are acting like a dumbass.

And no, not all people from the South are grass-chewin inbred's. My father-in-law also lives in South Carolina...but, I can tell you that clearly there is still a segment of that population that still are grass-chewin inbreds. I didn't think you were among that crowd, but now I am beginning to wonder. (don't feel bad, there are grass/dirt/iron chewin inbreds even in the north)

You just see one person say the words "The city of Cleveland sucks" and you get all butthurt, even though we are essentially saying the same stuff. Read what I said, and then read it again. I'm sure dementia is kicking in at this point of your life, so I'll be patient.

FA's primarily want to go where they can see themselves win a championship. Therefore, we are already behind the ball in recruiting them as nobody with even a iota of football knowledge believes Cleveland to be a winner. Therefore we have to rely on other selling points in order to bring in FA. "We have a beautiful, temperate major market that continually competes for a division championship" isn't one of those things we can say. So our only option left is to throw more money at a FA than he's worth. Unfortunately, a "competent" GM/owner isn't going to continually offer more than market value for a FA. So, what is it that we have that other teams don't?

We aren't a continual winner; we haven't had more than one winning season in the last ten years. We are a mid-market city with some extremely frigid winters. We have a new coaching staff with an unproven rookie head coach and a new owner in his first foray into being a majority owner of a professional sports team. Those are all the facts. That's what it is in every agent's dossier about Cleveland. That's what he'll tell his client, and the player will then say "Thanks, but no thanks."

To break it down for you, since you need concise bullet points:

-FA's want to go to winners.

-Cleveland is not and has not been a winner.

-Cleveland has no other amenities that a FA will find desirable.

-Cleveland will have to considerably overpay for any FA.

-Competent business-minded owners cannot validate paying considerably over market value for something.

The city's industrial past has nothing to do with the team's success (or lack thereof) and I never said it did. I never directly tied the industrial side of Cleveland with the sport side of it, because they have nothing to do with each other. What I said is that the city of Cleveland is a declining city. It was a hub in the steel industry and has yet to recover and find a new identity. The population has steadily fallen for the last 50 years. As it was so eloquently put in the Hastily Made Cleveland Tourism Video- "The Flats look like a Scooby-Doo ghost town."

You're right in saying that nobody has claimed the steel industry as the vital cog in your economy for 30 years, because it isn't. There are no cogs in Cleveland's economy at this point. There is no identity of the city. The "financial district" in Cleveland looks like something Charlotte shit out after eating Atlanta. It's a depressing city and nobody wants to visit there, much less live there. Cleveland needs to rethink it's focus and find a new identity, whatever that identity may be.

For example:

Recreation is quickly rising in America. Over the last 30 years, there's been a 5000% increase in universities offering graduate and post-graduate degrees in the fields of sport. Professional sports teams can generate up to a third of a city's entire income. Sport tourism is one of the fastest rising facets in the typical American's budget. The city of Indianapolis recognized this trend and have capitalized on this phenomenon, turning their city (mostly the downtown area) into a hub for sporting events. They built a new multi-purpose stadium and then this gaves them the chance to host a Super Bowl. The Super Bowl they hosted then brought in $500 million to their economy alone. In the 8 months of the year that there are no football games, Lucas Oil Stadium is used for concerts, basketball games and other events. They host the NFL Combine. They have found ways to generate income and, in doing so, have made themselves more accessible to the general public. They've become a team that young players want to play for.

These are the things Cleveland needs to focus on, and that will in turn make the city more desirable for FA in every sport. The Gateway Plaza is the first step. Doming the stadium may be the next step.

If what I'm saying is widely believed by a majority of the public, wouldn't it be those in the minority (read: you) that are part of the "Dumbasses Club"? Or are you the guy who denies he's on fire until his skin is burnt off?

Sit through one hurricane and you'll quickly realize that they are nothing more than warm rainstorms. We get one category 4 or 5 that does serious damage every 20-30 years, if that. Like I said, I've been through one in my entire life and I was essentially still in the womb. Most hurricanes do nothing but blow really hard and then fizzle out... kind of like Ghoolie.

The Gipper

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

You just see one person say the words "The city of Cleveland sucks" and you get all butthurt, even though we are essentially saying the same stuff. Read what I said, and then read it again. I'm sure dementia is kicking in at this point of your life, so I'll be patient.

FA's primarily want to go where they can see themselves win a championship. Therefore, we are already behind the ball in recruiting them as nobody with even a iota of football knowledge believes Cleveland to be a winner. Therefore we have to rely on other selling points in order to bring in FA. "We have a beautiful, temperate major market that continually competes for a division championship" isn't one of those things we can say. So our only option left is to throw more money at a FA than he's worth. Unfortunately, a "competent" GM/owner isn't going to continually offer more than market value for a FA. So, what is it that we have that other teams don't?

We aren't a continual winner; we haven't had more than one winning season in the last ten years. We are a mid-market city with some extremely frigid winters. We have a new coaching staff with an unproven rookie head coach and a new owner in his first foray into being a majority owner of a professional sports team. Those are all the facts. That's what it is in every agent's dossier about Cleveland. That's what he'll tell his client, and the player will then say "Thanks, but no thanks."

To break it down for you, since you need concise bullet points:

-FA's want to go to winners.

-Cleveland is not and has not been a winner.

-Cleveland has no other amenities that a FA will find desirable.

-Cleveland will have to considerably overpay for any FA.

-Competent business-minded owners cannot validate paying considerably over market value for something.

The city's industrial past has nothing to do with the team's success (or lack thereof) and I never said it did. I never directly tied the industrial side of Cleveland with the sport side of it, because they have nothing to do with each other. What I said is that the city of Cleveland is a declining city. It was a hub in the steel industry and has yet to recover and find a new identity. The population has steadily fallen for the last 50 years. As it was so eloquently put in the Hastily Made Cleveland Tourism Video- "The Flats look like a Scooby-Doo ghost town."

You're right in saying that nobody has claimed the steel industry as the vital cog in your economy for 30 years, because it isn't. There are no cogs in Cleveland's economy at this point. There is no identity of the city. The "financial district" in Cleveland looks like something Charlotte shit out after eating Atlanta. It's a depressing city and nobody wants to visit there, much less live there. Cleveland needs to rethink it's focus and find a new identity, whatever that identity may be.

For example:

Recreation is quickly rising in America. Over the last 30 years, there's been a 5000% increase in universities offering graduate and post-graduate degrees in the fields of sport. Professional sports teams can generate up to a third of a city's entire income. Sport tourism is one of the fastest rising facets in the typical American's budget. The city of Indianapolis recognized this trend and have capitalized on this phenomenon, turning their city (mostly the downtown area) into a hub for sporting events. They built a new multi-purpose stadium and then this gaves them the chance to host a Super Bowl. The Super Bowl they hosted then brought in $500 million to their economy alone. In the 8 months of the year that there are no football games, Lucas Oil Stadium is used for concerts, basketball games and other events. They host the NFL Combine. They have found ways to generate income and, in doing so, have made themselves more accessible to the general public. They've become a team that young players want to play for.

These are the things Cleveland needs to focus on, and that will in turn make the city more desirable for FA in every sport. The Gateway Plaza is the first step. Doming the stadium may be the next step.

If what I'm saying is widely believed by a majority of the public, wouldn't it be those in the minority (read: you) that are part of the "Dumbasses Club"? Or are you the guy who denies he's on fire until his skin is burnt off?

Sit through one hurricane and you'll quickly realize that they are nothing more than warm rainstorms. We get one category 4 or 5 that does serious damage every 20-30 years, if that. Like I said, I've been through one in my entire life and I was essentially still in the womb. Most hurricanes do nothing but blow really hard and then fizzle out... kind of like Ghoolie.

Winning motherfucker. It is all about winning. Having a competent organization that brings a winner. That is the only thing that matters.

And now apparently you are getting the message because you seem to be backtracking on your statements that "people won't come here because of the weather" "people won't come here because the river burned a thousand years ago" etc. etc.

I am sorry, but I don't think that athletes are the big pussies you think they are that they can't stand a few snowstorms. (maybe you are extrapolating your own weaknesses on to them).

Snow and pollution didn't make our teams bad. Guys like Art Modell, Randy Lerner, Ted Stepian, the Dolans up to this point are what made these teams bad.

Money and winning are the things that will make FAs come here.

Once you learn that you can turn in your Dumbass Club badge.

If the elements you claim to be important were important, then Pittsburgh would be in the same shithole we are. They are only partially there because the owners/management of the Steelers have been competent with no more to work with than what the Browns have had. The Penguins have done the same thing. No one on earth thinks that any amenities associated with Pittsburgh brought any of those good players there. If it did, then why are the Pirates one of the worst teams in sports history?

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@the-gipper said:

Winning motherfucker. It is all about winning. Having a competent organization that brings a winner. That is the only thing that matters.

And now apparently you are getting the message because you seem to be backtracking on your statements that "people won't come here because of the weather" "people won't come here because the river burned a thousand years ago" etc. etc.

I am sorry, but I don't think that athletes are the big pussies you think they are that they can't stand a few snowstorms. (maybe you are extrapolating your own weaknesses on to them).

Snow and pollution didn't make our teams bad. Guys like Art Modell, Randy Lerner, Ted Stepian, the Dolans up to this point are what made these teams bad.

Money and winning are the things that will make FAs come here.

Once you learn that you can turn in your Dumbass Club badge.

If the elements you claim to be important were important, then Pittsburgh would be in the same shithole we are. They are only partially there because the owners/management of the Steelers have been competent with no more to work with than what the Browns have had. The Penguins have done the same thing. No one on earth thinks that any amenities associated with Pittsburgh brought any of those good players there. If it did, then why are the Pirates one of the worst teams in sports history?

Cleveland is a tough sell. It's cold, ugly, the river catches on fire, and we don't win games...in any sport. Until we turn things around, we will have to grossly overpay for top FA's, and even then we might not land them.

That is the exact quote from my first post. All you saw was "river catches on fire" and then your pussy got all red and inflamed. No backtracking from me, you just got so butthurt that someone insulted your shithole of a city that you forgot how to read. At no point did I say "Players won't come here because of the weather". What I said was that the city has no selling points.

FA's won't come here because we don't win games. That is established. Because of that, we will have to sell our city to them in other ways. Unfortunately, the city sucks and is a veritable diarrhea wasteland...so our only selling point is that we have more money to offer them. You can bet that Haslam hasn't gotten to where he is by being loose with his money and I doubt things will change now. Therefore, we will have to win with what we have before we can land any really big FA's.

I'm not saying that these athletes are pussies. I'm saying that they are multimillion dollar athletes that, in some cases, can have up to 32 suitors at a time. Most, if not all, would take a 10-15% smaller contract to play for a perennial contender than take a 10-15% larger contract and play for some shit team on the shores of a crap-factory lake. Any GM that offers a contract that's more than 15% higher than a FA's supposed market value won't be a GM for long. Ask Matt Miller how overpaying for free agents worked out for him.

Pittsburgh is where they are because they have maintained constant success since 1972, when FA was one-tenth of what it is today and players played because they loved the sport. They've had one season in that time where they've won less than 6 games.

Open your eyes. I'm starting to honestly believe that you truly are suffering from dementia.