Need Browns Help
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Hello all, I'm writing a fictional story about a die hard Browns fan and I would like to ask you all what it means to be a Browns fan. I'm doing my research now, but if you think there's anything pertinent about the Browns' history I should know,I would appreciate any insight. Thanks in advance!
Clevelanders are blue collar people, made up of mostly 2nd,3rd and 4th generation immigrants,Irish,Polish,Italian, if you only count the whites.
Cleveland sports in my lifetime (born in 80) has been filled with what ifs and almosts, full of let downs.
Jordan killing us, the drive,the fumble,Browns moving,Lebron leaving, 95 world series,97..
If you are going to make a story about a Browns fan I would suggest making the character a Clevelander first, based off of the more popular Boston characters we've seen in movies but with a Cleveland theme.
Clevelanders are blue collar people, made up of mostly 2nd,3rd and 4th generation immigrants,Irish,Polish,Italian, if you only count the whites.
Cleveland sports in my lifetime (born in 80) has been filled with what ifs and almosts, full of let downs.
Jordan killing us, the drive,the fumble,Browns moving,Lebron leaving, 95 world series,97..
If you are going to make a story about a Browns fan I would suggest making the character a Clevelander first, based off of the more popular Boston characters we've seen in movies but with a Cleveland theme.
And when you are doing that don't forget beer drinking and Rock n' Roll music. Two things that are deeply woven into the fabric of most Clevelanders.
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When I was thirty the Browns were struggling through the Belicheck era and I had never seen Otto Graham or J Brown play, but I respected the tradition, learned everything I could about it and am very proud of it.
The Browns don't owe you anything to put on your fridge. Either you are in 100% or you're not.
Just don't act like a jilted school girl.
Z
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browns fans are diehard no matter what the era they grew up watching and falling in love with the team. some are geographical fans (such as myself) growing up fans of their high school teams, college teams and then progressively moving to the browns, like i said geographically. if you grew up in southern ohio i'm sure you would lean towards the bengals (ohio university, cincinnatti, and even louisville) as your college bball and football teams.
i grew up in sandusky so of course i root for the blue streaks (HS) toledo, bgsu, kent state, akron etc (cleveland state bball) and nothing but the browns in the nfl.
you have to have solid fortitude rooting for the browns. but that's a part of being a man. seen some good times in the sipe and kosar era, and have seen glimpses of something that coulda and shoulda worked if not for the leadership and indecision from ownership and their FO.
we constantly hope and pray that the next 'person' hired will be the solution to getting this team over the top. well since '99 it's been a gut wrenching situation. i swear some people on this board could have done better in decision making in player and coaching personnel and timetables to each and..............
most of us live and die for sunday browns football. it can either end up in a fun filled high fiveing party or a trail to the bathroom where you are going to hurl all the draft beer and bad chicken wings up into the toilet as you scream weeden sucks.
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Cleveland Browns fans are eternal optimists. The older fans know first hand the glory of the Browns. They've lived the pride and exhilaration of their team going to war on football Sundays and coming home victorious. The emotional rush of that moment is powerful and impossible to forget....akin to an euphoria producing drug. The younger fans, as mentioned in an earlier post, while maybe not remembering the actual game, recall the pride, happiness and celebrations associated with the Browns doing great things. Their minds are forever imprinted with the positive emotions they observed and felt from their family members and their friends.
For me, rooting for the Browns is analogous to having a significant relationship with drug addicted or alcoholic family member or close friend.. No matter how often they slip up and cause grieve you still hold on to those memories of them when they were healthy and not strung out. Deep in your heart you are optimistic they can beat their demons and regain their self respect and dignity. Time after time you tell them to get out of your life forever, only to take them back for one more try at redemption.
The Browns of the eighties have left me with the most memories. The "Cardiac Kids" of the early eighties followed by the Kosar led Browns of the late 80's have a spot in my mind that will be difficult to duplicate
Once a fan, it is impossible to disavow the Browns. The light at the end of the tunnel, while sometime obscured by the smoke of frustration and despair, is always visible to those who continue to believe. Go Browns!!!!!
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Cleveland Browns fans are eternal optimists. The older fans know first hand the glory of the Browns. They've lived the pride and exhilaration of their team going to war on football Sundays and coming home victorious. The emotional rush of that moment is powerful and impossible to forget....akin to an euphoria producing drug. The younger fans, as mentioned in an earlier post, while maybe not remembering the actual game, recall the pride, happiness and celebrations associated with the Browns doing great things. Their minds are forever imprinted with the positive emotions they observed and felt from their family members and their friends.
For me, rooting for the Browns is analogous to having a significant relationship with drug addicted or alcoholic family member or close friend.. No matter how often they slip up and cause grieve you still hold on to those memories of them when they were healthy and not strung out. Deep in your heart you are optimistic they can beat their demons and regain their self respect and dignity. Time after time you tell them to get out of your life forever, only to take them back for one more try at redemption.
The Browns of the eighties have left me with the most memories. The "Cardiac Kids" of the early eighties followed by the Kosar led Browns of the late 80's have a spot in my mind that will be difficult to duplicate
Once a fan, it is impossible to disavow the Browns. The light at the end of the tunnel, while sometime obscured by the smoke of frustration and despair, is always visible to those who continue to believe. Go Browns!!!!!
Cleveland Browns fans are eternal optimists. The older fans know first hand the glory of the Browns. They've lived the pride and exhilaration of their team going to war on football Sundays and coming home victorious. The emotional rush of that moment is powerful and impossible to forget....akin to an euphoria producing drug. The younger fans, as mentioned in an earlier post, while maybe not remembering the actual game, recall the pride, happiness and celebrations associated with the Browns doing great things. Their minds are forever imprinted with the positive emotions they observed and felt from their family members and their friends.
For me, rooting for the Browns is analogous to having a significant relationship with drug addicted or alcoholic family member or close friend.. No matter how often they slip up and cause grieve you still hold on to those memories of them when they were healthy and not strung out. Deep in your heart you are optimistic they can beat their demons and regain their self respect and dignity. Time after time you tell them to get out of your life forever, only to take them back for one more try at redemption.
The Browns of the eighties have left me with the most memories. The "Cardiac Kids" of the early eighties followed by the Kosar led Browns of the late 80's have a spot in my mind that will be difficult to duplicate
Once a fan, it is impossible to disavow the Browns. The light at the end of the tunnel, while sometime obscured by the smoke of frustration and despair, is always visible to those who continue to believe. Go Browns!!!!!
damn eddie you should be writing this book.
perfectly said.
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When I was thirty the Browns were struggling through the Belicheck era and I had never seen Otto Graham or J Brown play, but I respected the tradition, learned everything I could about it and am very proud of it.
The Browns don't owe you anything to put on your fridge. Either you are in 100% or you're not.
Just don't act like a jilted school girl.
Z
usually I don't disagree with u Z. But calling me a jilted school girl cause I refuse to hang my hat on somethin the browns did a half century ago is getting old. We are the only franchise in all of sports that does that. Show me something in my lifetime.... anything.Zombo said:
When I was thirty the Browns were struggling through the Belicheck era and I had never seen Otto Graham or J Brown play, but I respected the tradition, learned everything I could about it and am very proud of it.
The Browns don't owe you anything to put on your fridge. Either you are in 100% or you're not.
Just don't act like a jilted school girl.
Z
We watch a team win there first superbowl every 3 or 4 years and we shit the bed with 4 and 5 wins religiously. And people who weren't even alive throw out well we used to be this good like they've actually thrown their arms up in celebration after the last game of the season.
I respect our traditions that I've come to read from books and from my elders. And I know as much as anyone on here scoreboard wise when it comes to browns historic milestones.
But GD I would like to have something of my own to tell my grandkids yea they used to be good when I was ur age.
I'm as big if not a bigger fan than anyone on here and I believe this with all my heart when I say I don't think ill ever see the Browns win a championship!!!!!
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
usually I don't disagree with u Z. But calling me a jilted school girl cause I refuse to hang my hat on somethin the browns did a half century ago is getting old. We are the only franchise in all of sports that does that. Show me something in my lifetime.... anything.Zombo said:
When I was thirty the Browns were struggling through the Belicheck era and I had never seen Otto Graham or J Brown play, but I respected the tradition, learned everything I could about it and am very proud of it.
The Browns don't owe you anything to put on your fridge. Either you are in 100% or you're not.
Just don't act like a jilted school girl.
Z
We watch a team win there first superbowl every 3 or 4 years and we shit the bed with 4 and 5 wins religiously. And people who weren't even alive throw out well we used to be this good like they've actually thrown their arms up in celebration after the last game of the season.
I respect our traditions that I've come to read from books and from my elders. And I know as much as anyone on here scoreboard wise when it comes to browns historic milestones.
But GD I would like to have something of my own to tell my grandkids yea they used to be good when I was ur age.
I'm as big if not a bigger fan than anyone on here and I believe this with all my heart when I say I don't think ill ever see the Browns win a championship!!!!!
oh yea there is always next year.... Right?usually I don't disagree with u Z. But calling me a jilted school girl cause I refuse to hang my hat on somethin the browns did a half century ago is getting old. We are the only franchise in all of sports that does that. Show me something in my lifetime.... anything.
We watch a team win there first superbowl every 3 or 4 years and we shit the bed with 4 and 5 wins religiously. And people who weren't even alive throw out well we used to be this good like they've actually thrown their arms up in celebration after the last game of the season.
I respect our traditions that I've come to read from books and from my elders. And I know as much as anyone on here scoreboard wise when it comes to browns historic milestones.
But GD I would like to have something of my own to tell my grandkids yea they used to be good when I was ur age.
I'm as big if not a bigger fan than anyone on here and I believe this with all my heart when I say I don't think ill ever see the Browns win a championship!!!!!
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oh yea there is always next year.... Right?usually I don't disagree with u Z. But calling me a jilted school girl cause I refuse to hang my hat on somethin the browns did a half century ago is getting old. We are the only franchise in all of sports that does that. Show me something in my lifetime.... anything.
We watch a team win there first superbowl every 3 or 4 years and we shit the bed with 4 and 5 wins religiously. And people who weren't even alive throw out well we used to be this good like they've actually thrown their arms up in celebration after the last game of the season.
I respect our traditions that I've come to read from books and from my elders. And I know as much as anyone on here scoreboard wise when it comes to browns historic milestones.
But GD I would like to have something of my own to tell my grandkids yea they used to be good when I was ur age.
I'm as big if not a bigger fan than anyone on here and I believe this with all my heart when I say I don't think ill ever see the Browns win a championship!!!!!
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usually I don't disagree with u Z. But calling me a jilted school girl cause I refuse to hang my hat on somethin the browns did a half century ago is getting old. We are the only franchise in all of sports that does that. Show me something in my lifetime.... anything.Zombo said:
When I was thirty the Browns were struggling through the Belicheck era and I had never seen Otto Graham or J Brown play, but I respected the tradition, learned everything I could about it and am very proud of it.
The Browns don't owe you anything to put on your fridge. Either you are in 100% or you're not.
Just don't act like a jilted school girl.
Z
We watch a team win there first superbowl every 3 or 4 years and we shit the bed with 4 and 5 wins religiously. And people who weren't even alive throw out well we used to be this good like they've actually thrown their arms up in celebration after the last game of the season.
I respect our traditions that I've come to read from books and from my elders. And I know as much as anyone on here scoreboard wise when it comes to browns historic milestones.
But GD I would like to have something of my own to tell my grandkids yea they used to be good when I was ur age.
I'm as big if not a bigger fan than anyone on here and I believe this with all my heart when I say I don't think ill ever see the Browns win a championship!!!!!
usually I don't disagree with u Z. But calling me a jilted school girl cause I refuse to hang my hat on somethin the browns did a half century ago is getting old. We are the only franchise in all of sports that does that. Show me something in my lifetime.... anything.
We watch a team win there first superbowl every 3 or 4 years and we shit the bed with 4 and 5 wins religiously. And people who weren't even alive throw out well we used to be this good like they've actually thrown their arms up in celebration after the last game of the season.
I respect our traditions that I've come to read from books and from my elders. And I know as much as anyone on here scoreboard wise when it comes to browns historic milestones.
But GD I would like to have something of my own to tell my grandkids yea they used to be good when I was ur age.
I'm as big if not a bigger fan than anyone on here and I believe this with all my heart when I say I don't think ill ever see the Browns win a championship!!!!!
I think I will pat myself on the back. I said: "respect the history, know and learn the history, enjoy the history....but, yes, it is time for this team to start creating some new positive history" for the likes of you younger people....and more importantly for me and other older people who have been waiting too damn long.
Fair to say?
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usually I don't disagree with u Z. But calling me a jilted school girl cause I refuse to hang my hat on somethin the browns did a half century ago is getting old. We are the only franchise in all of sports that does that. Show me something in my lifetime.... anything.
We watch a team win there first superbowl every 3 or 4 years and we shit the bed with 4 and 5 wins religiously. And people who weren't even alive throw out well we used to be this good like they've actually thrown their arms up in celebration after the last game of the season.
I respect our traditions that I've come to read from books and from my elders. And I know as much as anyone on here scoreboard wise when it comes to browns historic milestones.
But GD I would like to have something of my own to tell my grandkids yea they used to be good when I was ur age.
I'm as big if not a bigger fan than anyone on here and I believe this with all my heart when I say I don't think ill ever see the Browns win a championship!!!!!
I think I will pat myself on the back. I said: "respect the history, know and learn the history, enjoy the history....but, yes, it is time for this team to start creating some new positive history" for the likes of you younger people....and more importantly for me and other older people who have been waiting too damn long.
Fair to say?
Fair!!!!!I think I will pat myself on the back. I said: "respect the history, know and learn the history, enjoy the history....but, yes, it is time for this team to start creating some new positive history" for the likes of you younger people....and more importantly for me and other older people who have been waiting too damn long.
Fair to say?
Respect the history not use it as a shield anymore! It just downgrades Browns fans everywhere
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Fair!!!!!I think I will pat myself on the back. I said: "respect the history, know and learn the history, enjoy the history....but, yes, it is time for this team to start creating some new positive history" for the likes of you younger people....and more importantly for me and other older people who have been waiting too damn long.
Fair to say?
Respect the history not use it as a shield anymore! It just downgrades Browns fans everywhere
Fair!!!!!
Respect the history not use it as a shield anymore! It just downgrades Browns fans everywhere
i don't think anyone uses it as a shield. they are just stating facts. i don't know how old you are but if you weren't watching the browns when oakland came into our house and beat us in a playoff game, or watch us lose to horseface elway 2 years in a row in the AFC championship game (both a game away from the superbowl) then you gotta be 13 years old.
no one wants to beat another generation over their heads with knowledge and history that you weren't around to see. but hopefully your parents taught you to respect your elders.
there is no true browns fans on here that want us to lose. the fact of the matter is we have made terrible decisions since modell left cleveland. people might hate him but he dedicated his life to the team. too bad the city didn't step up and feel the same way.
all there is here is hope. it's been that way since '99. but hey win or lose YOU ARE A BROWNS FAN!.
if you want guaranteed wins from a team then jump ship and become a 49, green bay, or giants fan. no one is forcing you to be here. i'm proud as hell to be a browns fan and wear my gear almost everyday....and get mad respect from other team's fans for doing so. you know why? because if i can stick by this team the way they've fucked up in the past couple of decades they no i'm diehard. and that means more to me AND them than some cheap wins.
i understand the frustration. i might not see a superbowl win in my lifetime but now that i have grandchildren they might. if not they will be long suffering just like me and obviously you too.
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Fair!!!!!
Respect the history not use it as a shield anymore! It just downgrades Browns fans everywhere
i don't think anyone uses it as a shield. they are just stating facts. i don't know how old you are but if you weren't watching the browns when oakland came into our house and beat us in a playoff game, or watch us lose to horseface elway 2 years in a row in the AFC championship game (both a game away from the superbowl) then you gotta be 13 years old.
no one wants to beat another generation over their heads with knowledge and history that you weren't around to see. but hopefully your parents taught you to respect your elders.
there is no true browns fans on here that want us to lose. the fact of the matter is we have made terrible decisions since modell left cleveland. people might hate him but he dedicated his life to the team. too bad the city didn't step up and feel the same way.
all there is here is hope. it's been that way since '99. but hey win or lose YOU ARE A BROWNS FAN!.
if you want guaranteed wins from a team then jump ship and become a 49, green bay, or giants fan. no one is forcing you to be here. i'm proud as hell to be a browns fan and wear my gear almost everyday....and get mad respect from other team's fans for doing so. you know why? because if i can stick by this team the way they've fucked up in the past couple of decades they no i'm diehard. and that means more to me AND them than some cheap wins.
i understand the frustration. i might not see a superbowl win in my lifetime but now that i have grandchildren they might. if not they will be long suffering just like me and obviously you too.
i don't think anyone uses it as a shield. they are just stating facts. i don't know how old you are but if you weren't watching the browns when oakland came into our house and beat us in a playoff game, or watch us lose to horseface elway 2 years in a row in the AFC championship game (both a game away from the superbowl) then you gotta be 13 years old.
no one wants to beat another generation over their heads with knowledge and history that you weren't around to see. but hopefully your parents taught you to respect your elders.
there is no true browns fans on here that want us to lose. the fact of the matter is we have made terrible decisions since modell left cleveland. people might hate him but he dedicated his life to the team. too bad the city didn't step up and feel the same way.
all there is here is hope. it's been that way since '99. but hey win or lose YOU ARE A BROWNS FAN!.unfortunately my first memories as a Browns fan was losing to a horse face two times in a row. and unfortunately that is all I have ever seen the Browns do.
if you want guaranteed wins from a team then jump ship and become a 49, green bay, or giants fan. no one is forcing you to be here. i'm proud as hell to be a browns fan and wear my gear almost everyday....and get mad respect from other team's fans for doing so. you know why? because if i can stick by this team the way they've fucked up in the past couple of decades they no i'm diehard. and that means more to me AND them than some cheap wins.
i understand the frustration. i might not see a superbowl win in my lifetime but now that i have grandchildren they might. if not they will be long suffering just like me and obviously you too.
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I just want to win. I'm tired of rebuilding, tired of wiping the slate clean and starting over and over. I like the process of building through the draft way more than I like Free Agents. I just want us to play with a passion on the field that matches the passion in the stands. I just want us to pick players in the draft that make sense for us to keep around for a good amount of time, I don't like trading our 1st rounders for 3rd or 4th rounders...it's dumb. I just want to be excited when the playoffs start and not start thinking about the draft. I just want to have a hope that when the Superbowl comes on that I'll be watching my team try and win it all instead of waiting for the commercials to come on... But most of all, I just want to beat the fuck out of the Steelers and the Ravens twice a year. I don't mind the Bengals that much because they are and Ohio team and were started by Paul Brown(the greatest HC in history) and we did him dirty... Fuck Modell, btw- do you think he looks like Michael Jackson in Thriller by now?
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usually I don't disagree with u Z. But calling me a jilted school girl cause I refuse to hang my hat on somethin the browns did a half century ago is getting old. We are the only franchise in all of sports that does that. Show me something in my lifetime.... anything.Zombo said:
When I was thirty the Browns were struggling through the Belicheck era and I had never seen Otto Graham or J Brown play, but I respected the tradition, learned everything I could about it and am very proud of it.
The Browns don't owe you anything to put on your fridge. Either you are in 100% or you're not.
Just don't act like a jilted school girl.
Z
We watch a team win there first superbowl every 3 or 4 years and we shit the bed with 4 and 5 wins religiously. And people who weren't even alive throw out well we used to be this good like they've actually thrown their arms up in celebration after the last game of the season.
I respect our traditions that I've come to read from books and from my elders. And I know as much as anyone on here scoreboard wise when it comes to browns historic milestones.
But GD I would like to have something of my own to tell my grandkids yea they used to be good when I was ur age.
I'm as big if not a bigger fan than anyone on here and I believe this with all my heart when I say I don't think ill ever see the Browns win a championship!!!!!
usually I don't disagree with u Z. But calling me a jilted school girl cause I refuse to hang my hat on somethin the browns did a half century ago is getting old. We are the only franchise in all of sports that does that. Show me something in my lifetime.... anything.
We watch a team win there first superbowl every 3 or 4 years and we shit the bed with 4 and 5 wins religiously. And people who weren't even alive throw out well we used to be this good like they've actually thrown their arms up in celebration after the last game of the season.
I respect our traditions that I've come to read from books and from my elders. And I know as much as anyone on here scoreboard wise when it comes to browns historic milestones.
But GD I would like to have something of my own to tell my grandkids yea they used to be good when I was ur age.
I'm as big if not a bigger fan than anyone on here and I believe this with all my heart when I say I don't think ill ever see the Browns win a championship!!!!!
Listen, I feel bad for you young guys, because while we got our hearts broken, you haven't even got your hopes up.
You have no idea how fun it is to watch the Browns win.
I grew up a Browns fan in Western Pennsylvania in the 70's. The wheels came off in 1974 when I was 10 years old and the Browns went 4-10 and the Steelers won the first of four Super Bowls in six years. It was brutal. You can only imagine how obnoxious the front running fans were, not to mention my own family. I basically haven't had bragging rights in my own family since I was nine. I am 49. That is forty years in the desert, my son.
You can't imagine the magic in the air during that 1980 Kardiac Kids Season. It was OUR turn. Everything that could go right, did go right. We had songs that wore out the record player (Google "record player" if you need too), we ate, drank, slept, browns football ... and it ended brutally in an instant on a bewildering call and bewildering throw. I'll never, ever, forget the feeling of Mike Davis intercepting that pass. It was a bigger heartache than any chick could ever deliver.
Then there was the Dawgpound Era. Schottenheimer, "Bernie, Bernie", terrific teams, first place every year, the whole city was the freaking dawgpound in football season. The whole country knew and respected the Browns. The TV networks put us in primetime as much as possible, the whole country was doing the dawgpound barking. We were as good as the Steelers or Ravens have been in the last decade, with one exception ... we brutally coughed up a trip to the Super Bowl two years in a row to the same fucking team ... and then for good measure, let them beat us up for a third super bowl trip. It was excruciating ... but the winning was fun .... I wish you could have experienced it.
Then came the Belichick era, which took brutally long to take shape, but when it did, it looked like it was going to be awesome. That 94 team had an awesome defense and Belichick was just getting rolling with a winning system ... and then Shitdick moves the fucking team to Baltimore.
I could write 10 paragraphs about that pain, but you are old enough to remember. Moving the Cleveland Browns was the biggest travesty in Professional Sports.
The second biggest travesty was the horseshit we were fed when they came back ... after we all rushed out to buy the Season Tickets and the Jerseys and all the bullshit ... you are right, this team, has been awful and painful.
But hang in there Grasshopper, because we came back in the 70's, we came back in the 80's, we came back in the 90's ... and we're going to come back this time and it is going to be sweeter than all of them when we start delivering paybacks. The city will be on fire. This is a new beginning, Fuck the Lerners, that sucked ... but move on from that attitude. New team starting in 2013. They're going to win ... and soon. And maybe, just maybe, that last ball bounces our way for once ... but if not, you sure will enjoy the ride.
Zombo
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Here is the history of the Cleveland areas major league professional team appearances in the finals of their sport:
1892 Spiders (now defunct) lose to Boston Beaneaters (now Atl. Braves) NL playoffs (pre-World Series
1894 Spiders beat Baltimore Orioles (now defunct.) NL
1896 Spiders lose to Baltimore Orioles NL
1920 Indians beat Brooklyn Robins (now LA Dodgers) in World Series
1920 Akron Pros win NFL title (no playoffs)
1922 Canton Bulldogs win NFL title
1923 Canton Bulldogs win NFL title
1924 Cleveland Bulldogs win NFL title
1945 Cleveland Rams beat Washington Redskin in NFL title game
1946 Browns beat NY Yankees in AAFC title game
1947 Browns beat NY Yankees in AAFC title game
1948 Indians beat Boston Braves (now ATL) in World Series
1948 Browns beat Buffalo Bills in AAFC title game
1949 Browns beat SF 49ers in AAFC title game
1950 Browns beat LA Rams in NFL title game
1951 Browns lose to Rams in NFL title game
1952 Browns lose to Detroit Lions in NFL title game
1953 Browns lose to Lions in NFL title game
1954 Indians lose to NY Giants (now SF) in World Series
1954 Browns beat Lions in NFL title game
1955 Browns beat Rams in NFL title game
1957 Browns lose to Lions in NFL title game
1964 Browns beat Baltimore Colts in NFL title game
1965 Browns lose to Green Bay Packers in NFL title gam
1995 Indians lose to Atlanta Braves in World Series
1997 Indians lose to Florida Marlins in World Series
2007 Cavs lose to San Antonio Spurs in NBA Finals.
If you include the 20s football titles as "wins" Cleveland's record in Championship Series is 16-11. If you take those out it is 12-11.
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Just a note of interest on the above. Cleveland teams have met teams from NYC and Detroit 4 times in finals. Teams from Baltimore and LA 3 times. Teams from Boston twice, and teams from Wash/Buff/San Fran/Green Bay/ATL/Miami and San Antonio once.
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