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Starting Lineups... And Maybe Mingo?

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  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @shep said:

    I think Sheard is a LDE in a 4-3, unfortunately. And a good one. He probably should've been traded.

    Now, Horton does a lot of formation shifts and usually goes 4-2-5 on passing downs. My guess is Sheard and Bryant are between Mingo and Kruger on distances over 8 or so. On draws, really sets up T.J. Ward to pile up tackles.

    I recently read that teams are starting to field nickels and dimes like 67% of the time.

    I think if we could get a corner with size out of it, I'd trade Sheard now. We have Groves for depth and we could look for a fourth OLB on the waiver wire.

    You're confusing the hell out of me (not that that is a major acomplishment)...

    Why trade a LDL who is "a good one" in a 4-3, if we will play 4 down linemen anywhere near 2/3's of the time?

    @tour2ma said:

    You're confusing the hell out of me (not that that is a major acomplishment)...

    Why trade a LDL who is "a good one" in a 4-3, if we will play 4 down linemen anywhere near 2/3's of the time?

    Because reason doesn't have any place in Cleveland, apparently.

    I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @shep said:

    I think Sheard is a LDE in a 4-3, unfortunately. And a good one. He probably should've been traded.

    Now, Horton does a lot of formation shifts and usually goes 4-2-5 on passing downs. My guess is Sheard and Bryant are between Mingo and Kruger on distances over 8 or so. On draws, really sets up T.J. Ward to pile up tackles.

    I recently read that teams are starting to field nickels and dimes like 67% of the time.

    I think if we could get a corner with size out of it, I'd trade Sheard now. We have Groves for depth and we could look for a fourth OLB on the waiver wire.

    You're confusing the hell out of me (not that that is a major acomplishment)...

    Why trade a LDL who is "a good one" in a 4-3, if we will play 4 down linemen anywhere near 2/3's of the time?

    Because we signed Paul Kruger to play the left edge, whether you call it an OLB or DE depending on formation. He had 13 sacks in his last 13 games in a 3-4. Kruger gets that nod.

    Neither is the ideal right side guy going against left tackles. Mingo is. Do I like Sheard on the field somewhere between them on obvious passing downs? Sure. But he's gonna want out of that gig as soon as he can make it happen.

    It's extremely "reasonable," Couch: Sheard's best value (cutting both ways, to his wallet and for his team on the field) is as a high-end LDE in a 4-3. The best bookend rushers for the Browns will be Kruger and Mingo.

    @tour2ma said:

    You're confusing the hell out of me (not that that is a major acomplishment)...

    Why trade a LDL who is "a good one" in a 4-3, if we will play 4 down linemen anywhere near 2/3's of the time?

    Tim Couch Pulls OutT 1 Reply

  • Those best rushers need people to spell them. Last time the Giants won the SB, they had 3 near-all-Pro DE's that they rotated to keep everyone fresh the whole game.

    The main reason I wouldn't trade Sheard is because we will get nowhere near equivalent value in that trade. CB's don't exist who are substantially better than McFadden/Skrine AND are able to be achieved via a trade of Sheard. Trading for someone who will get beaten out by Chris Owens helps the team none.. we've already got Trevin Wade in that role.

    Perhaps you want to turn this thread into a highlight reel of Kent Richardson, the DB of the year in the Arena League! [That award is actually a thing. I'm shocked too.] But even he's already signed to a contract, we don't need to trade for him.

    The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown

  • If Sheard is only doing "alright", that's okay with me. It's July. Let's find out how he excels, or not, later on.

    If he doesn't, then the team and Sheard will know it, and some team will end up with a 4-3 end hurt, and

    want him badly.

  • S Shep

    Because we signed Paul Kruger to play the left edge, whether you call it an OLB or DE depending on formation. He had 13 sacks in his last 13 games in a 3-4. Kruger gets that nod.

    Neither is the ideal right side guy going against left tackles. Mingo is. Do I like Sheard on the field somewhere between them on obvious passing downs? Sure. But he's gonna want out of that gig as soon as he can make it happen.

    It's extremely "reasonable," Couch: Sheard's best value (cutting both ways, to his wallet and for his team on the field) is as a high-end LDE in a 4-3. The best bookend rushers for the Browns will be Kruger and Mingo.

    @tour2ma said:

    You're confusing the hell out of me (not that that is a major acomplishment)...

    Why trade a LDL who is "a good one" in a 4-3, if we will play 4 down linemen anywhere near 2/3's of the time?

    @shep said:

    Because we signed Paul Kruger to play the left edge, whether you call it an OLB or DE depending on formation. He had 13 sacks in his last 13 games in a 3-4. Kruger gets that nod.

    Neither is the ideal right side guy going against left tackles. Mingo is. Do I like Sheard on the field somewhere between them on obvious passing downs? Sure. But he's gonna want out of that gig as soon as he can make it happen.

    It's extremely "reasonable," Couch: Sheard's best value (cutting both ways, to his wallet and for his team on the field) is as a high-end LDE in a 4-3. The best bookend rushers for the Browns will be Kruger and Mingo.

    What makes it unreasonable is that we wouldn't get anything close to equal value for him in a trade.

    You never make a trade unless you think you're winning it.

    When all is said and done, Sheard will be more of an every down OLB than both Kruger or Mingo. While he's not as dynamic a pass rusher, he is solid against the run, has great instincts and, from the accounts thus far, has been playing well in space. Why trade that away when your other two LB's are:

    1) a 3rd down specialist who benefited from being surrounded by Pro Bowl LB's on his last team

    2) an undersized rookie who's only ever played DE and was shut out against quality linemen

    No, Sheard's best value is right where he is: starting ROLB.

    I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride

  • Apparently, Sheard is progressing dramatically....? From Rotoworld:

    **************************************************************

    The Browns have thus far been "extremely pleased" with Jabaal Sheard's conversion from defensive end to outside linebacker.

    "If the season opened tomorrow," Sheard and Paul Kruger would be Cleveland's starting outside 'backers with Barkevious Mingo and Quentin Groves coming off the bench. We still wouldn't rule out a pre-Week 1 trade involving Sheard if Mingo proves capable of playing all three downs in training camp. For now, though, the Browns look awfully deep at a crucial position in their new 3-4 defense.

  • This defense will kick ass all season. The depth is amazing, compared to most years previously for the Browns. I think.

    Looking at it...I hope the ILb's stay healthy.....

    **********************************************

    L Defensive End
    D. Bryant
    B. Winn
    B. Sanford
    D. Kruger
    Nose Tackle
    P. Taylor
    I. Kitchen
    R Defensive End
    A. Rubin
    J. Hughes
    H. Davis
    A. Bryant
    L Outside Linebacker
    P. Kruger
    Q. Groves
    J. Johnson
    J. Staples
    L Inside Linebacker
    D. Jackson
    T. Carder
    T. Smith
    R Inside Linebacker
    C. Robertson
    L. Fort
    A. Moten
    R Outside Linebacker
    B. Mingo
    J. Sheard
    K. Adams
    L Cornerback
    J. Haden
    C. Owens
    J. Aubrey
    Strong Safety
    T. Ward
    J. Slaughter
    K. Richardson
    Free Safety
    T. Gipson
    J. Bademosi
    K. Walker
    R Cornerback
    L. McFadden
    B. Skrine
    T. Wade
    Canton MikeC 1 Reply

  • Depth at pass rusher is great, but I can't imagine Sheard wanting to stay if he eventually loses his spot to Mingo, especially on passing downs. Sacks equal money.

    For me, the exciting part is getting all three on the field. But my gut says one of two things have to happen: Either Sheard starts and plays great and our very high draft pick doesn't seen the field enough to pay out on the investment... or Sheard packs his bags for free agency and a 4-3.

    For this year, I totally agree that it's a good kind of problem. But if Sheard's the guy feeling cranky, I'm trying to get something for him before his deal is up.

    I should say: I like Sheard. I think he can play in a 3-4. He's a good athlete and he did well at OLB drills at that year's Combine and it's fairly well-known that the Steelers intended to draft him if he made it that far in round 2. The issue is that neither Kruger nor Sheard have nearly the ROLB upside of Mingo and you sure as heck hope he becomes a special player there. In other words, the best case is that Kruger and Mingo are the long-term starters... and Sheard won't stay here as a backup.

  • Oh, and the ideal pass rush formation puts Mingo and Kruger in two-points and Bryant, Taylor, and Sheard between them. That's gonna be bothersome.

  • C calfoxwc

    This defense will kick ass all season. The depth is amazing, compared to most years previously for the Browns. I think.

    Looking at it...I hope the ILb's stay healthy.....

    **********************************************

    L Defensive End
    D. Bryant
    B. Winn
    B. Sanford
    D. Kruger
    Nose Tackle
    P. Taylor
    I. Kitchen
    R Defensive End
    A. Rubin
    J. Hughes
    H. Davis
    A. Bryant
    L Outside Linebacker
    P. Kruger
    Q. Groves
    J. Johnson
    J. Staples
    L Inside Linebacker
    D. Jackson
    T. Carder
    T. Smith
    R Inside Linebacker
    C. Robertson
    L. Fort
    A. Moten
    R Outside Linebacker
    B. Mingo
    J. Sheard
    K. Adams
    L Cornerback
    J. Haden
    C. Owens
    J. Aubrey
    Strong Safety
    T. Ward
    J. Slaughter
    K. Richardson
    Free Safety
    T. Gipson
    J. Bademosi
    K. Walker
    R Cornerback
    L. McFadden
    B. Skrine
    T. Wade

    @calfoxwc said:

    This defense will kick ass all season. The depth is amazing, compared to most years previously for the Browns. I think.

    Looking at it...I hope the ILb's stay healthy.....

    **********************************************

    L Defensive End
    D. Bryant
    B. Winn
    B. Sanford
    D. Kruger
    Nose Tackle
    P. Taylor
    I. Kitchen
    R Defensive End
    A. Rubin
    J. Hughes
    H. Davis
    A. Bryant
    L Outside Linebacker
    P. Kruger
    Q. Groves
    J. Johnson
    J. Staples
    L Inside Linebacker
    D. Jackson
    T. Carder
    T. Smith
    R Inside Linebacker
    C. Robertson
    L. Fort
    A. Moten
    R Outside Linebacker
    B. Mingo
    J. Sheard
    K. Adams
    L Cornerback
    J. Haden
    C. Owens
    J. Aubrey
    Strong Safety
    T. Ward
    J. Slaughter
    K. Richardson
    Free Safety
    T. Gipson
    J. Bademosi
    K. Walker
    R Cornerback
    L. McFadden
    B. Skrine
    T. Wade

    Cal,

    You're my buddy & we often agree, but 35 of a 53 man roster on defense, then a kicker & long snapper? Hmm, that leaves 16 on offense....Please post THAT depth chart. Snicker, snicker.

    PS: I'm just pullin' your chain a bit.

    Mike

    IN DORSEY I TRUST

  • It keeps hitting me: Literally the ONLY part of this roster that disturbs me is that we have nothing but 5'9.5" corners, even if I do like McFadden, Skrine, and Owens. I don't have any problem at FS with Gipson, Bademosi, and Slaughter. The best of those three will be pretty damn good or get replaced.

    Maybe Bademosi plays some corner, too. Sure as hell fast enough (4.39).

  • Cal,


    You're my buddy & we often agree, but 35 of a 53 man roster on defense, then a kicker & long snapper? Hmm, that leaves 16 on offense....Please post THAT depth chart. Snicker, snicker.


    PS: I'm just pullin' your chain a bit.



    Mike


    ********************************


    A few of them won't make the team...but I note your asstute observation, pal. 😎


  • If Mingo shows he can handle all 3 downs, move Sheard to ILB to keep the best players on the field.

    The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
  • U Unsympathetic

    If Mingo shows he can handle all 3 downs, move Sheard to ILB to keep the best players on the field.

    @unsympathetic said:

    If Mingo shows he can handle all 3 downs, move Sheard to ILB to keep the best players on the field.

    That my friend... makes no sense...

    #Justsayin'

  • Read an update that Kerry Rhodes is still unemployed. Rated by someone as 4th best safety in football last year. I'm a bit surprised unless he wants a lot of years (that would backburner Gipson/Bademosi/Slaughter too much). You'd think he'd be thrilled with a one-year deal.

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