Greatest Team of All Time Bracket, Final 8
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I thought I would start a new thread with this round. Here are the Third Round matchups with the Final 8 teams pitted:
Game 17:
1989 49ers 14-2
vs
1984 49ers 15-1
It is Joe vs. Joe, but in 1984 Rice had not yet joined. Dwight Clark was the main WR.
And 1989 was Seifert's first year as HC, so it is Walsh vs. Seifert
Game 18:
1972 Dolphins eventually 17-0
vs.
1976 Raiders 16-1
Shula vs. Madden. Stabler vs. Griese. Tatum vs. Warfield. Black and Silver vs. Aqua and Orange.
Game 19:
1985 Bears 18-1
vs.
1962 Packers 14-1
Ditka vs. Lombardi. Starr vs. McMahon. Taylor vs. Payton. Nitschke vs. Singletary.
Game 20:
1950 Browns 11-2
vs.
1948 Browns 15-0
Pretty much the same squad lines up against itself,including PB at coach. All the offensive playmakers are the same:
Graham, Motley, Speedie, Lavelli, Dub Jones, Groza
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I thought I would start a new thread with this round. Here are the Third Round matchups with the Final 8 teams pitted:
Game 17:
1989 49ers 14-2
vs
1984 49ers 15-1
It is Joe vs. Joe, but in 1984 Rice had not yet joined. Dwight Clark was the main WR.
And 1989 was Seifert's first year as HC, so it is Walsh vs. Seifert
Game 18:
1972 Dolphins eventually 17-0
vs.
1976 Raiders 16-1
Shula vs. Madden. Stabler vs. Griese. Tatum vs. Warfield. Black and Silver vs. Aqua and Orange.
Game 19:
1985 Bears 18-1
vs.
1962 Packers 14-1
Ditka vs. Lombardi. Starr vs. McMahon. Taylor vs. Payton. Nitschke vs. Singletary.
Game 20:
1950 Browns 11-2
vs.
1948 Browns 15-0
Pretty much the same squad lines up against itself,including PB at coach. All the offensive playmakers are the same:
Graham, Motley, Speedie, Lavelli, Dub Jones, Groza
I thought I would start a new thread with this round. Here are the Third Round matchups with the Final 8 teams pitted:
Game 17:
1989 49ers 14-2
vs
1984 49ers 15-1
It is Joe vs. Joe, but in 1984 Rice had not yet joined. Dwight Clark was the main WR.
And 1989 was Seifert's first year as HC, so it is Walsh vs. Seifert
Game 18:
1972 Dolphins eventually 17-0
vs.
1976 Raiders 16-1
Shula vs. Madden. Stabler vs. Griese. Tatum vs. Warfield. Black and Silver vs. Aqua and Orange.
Game 19:
1985 Bears 18-1
vs.
1962 Packers 14-1
Ditka vs. Lombardi. Lombardi v Ditka is the huge avantage for the Packers. Obviously the athletes would have been better in 85, but the coach and team concept of the Packers would carry the day.
Game 20:
1950 Browns- 11-2
vs.
1948 Browns 15-0
Pretty much the same squad lines up against itself,including PB at coach. All the offensive playmakers are the same:
Graham, Motley, Speedie, Lavelli, Dub Jones, Groza competition better in the NFL
-
I thought I would start a new thread with this round. Here are the Third Round matchups with the Final 8 teams pitted:
Game 17:
1989 49ers 14-2
vs
1984 49ers 15-1
It is Joe vs. Joe, but in 1984 Rice had not yet joined. Dwight Clark was the main WR.
And 1989 was Seifert's first year as HC, so it is Walsh vs. Seifert
Game 18:
1972 Dolphins eventually 17-0
vs.
1976 Raiders 16-1
Shula vs. Madden. Stabler vs. Griese. Tatum vs. Warfield. Black and Silver vs. Aqua and Orange.
Game 19:
1985 Bears 18-1
vs.
1962 Packers 14-1
Ditka vs. Lombardi. Starr vs. McMahon. Taylor vs. Payton. Nitschke vs. Singletary.
Game 20:
1950 Browns 11-2
vs.
1948 Browns 15-0
Pretty much the same squad lines up against itself,including PB at coach. All the offensive playmakers are the same:
Graham, Motley, Speedie, Lavelli, Dub Jones, Groza
I thought I would start a new thread with this round. Here are the Third Round matchups with the Final 8 teams pitted:
My Choices
Game 17:
1989 49ers 14-2
vs
1984 49ers 15-1 Such a very slight edge, but they handled the best Marino team.
It is Joe vs. Joe, but in 1984 Rice had not yet joined. Dwight Clark was the main WR.
And 1989 was Seifert's first year as HC, so it is Walsh vs. Seifert
Game 18:
1972 Dolphins eventually 17-0, very close. Slight edge due to Dolphins run game.
vs.
1976 Raiders 16-1
Shula vs. Madden. Stabler vs. Griese. Tatum vs. Warfield. Black and Silver vs. Aqua and Orange.
Game 19:
1985 Bears 18-1, not as big an edge for Bears as one might think....though their dominance is enough to give them the nod.
vs.
1962 Packers 14-1
Ditka vs. Lombardi. Starr vs. McMahon. Taylor vs. Payton. Nitschke vs. Singletary.
Game 20:
1950 Browns 11-2
vs.
1948 Browns 15-0 Cannot beat Undefeated. (and I disagree slightly that the NFL competition was much, if at all better than AAFC competition)
Pretty much the same squad lines up against itself,including PB at coach. All the offensive playmakers are the same:
Graham, Motley, Speedie, Lavelli, Dub Jones, Groza
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Need a few more votes before this closes out.
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Winners in the round of 8:
1984 49ers over 1989 49ers
1972 Dolphins over 1976 Raiders
1985 Bears over 1962 Packers
1950 Browns over 1948 Browns
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Semifinal Matchups:
Game 21
1984 49ers
vs
1985 Bears
Ditka vs. Walsh, Montana vs McMahon, Payton vs. Roger Craig.
Bears score 28.5 ppg vs. giving up 12.4
49ers score 29.7 vs. giving up 14.2
Game 22:
1950 Browns
vs.
1972 Dolphins
Almost mirror image game. Mentor vs. Student (Paul Brown vs. Don Shula), Otto Graham vs. Bob Griese,
Marion Motley and Dub Jones vs. Csonka and Kiick, Warfield vs. Lavelli and Speedie.
No name defense vs. Big Name defense (Ford, Willis)
Dolphins score 27.5 ppg vs. giving up 12.2
Browns score 25.8 vs. giving up 12.0.
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Head to head matchups for 1950 Browns vs. 1972 Dolphins:
Offense:
QB: Otto Graham vs. Earl Morrall/Bob Griese
FB: Marion Motley vs. Larry Csonka
HB: Dub Jones vs. Jim Kiick/Mercury Morris
TE/HB: Rex Baumgardner vs. Marv Fleming
LT: Lou Groza vs. Doug Crusan
LG: Weldon Hummel vs. Bob Keuchenberg
OC: Frank Gatski vs. Jim Langer
RG: Lin Houston vs. Larry Little
RT: Lou Rymkus vs. Norm Evans
Defense:
LDE: George Young vs. Vern Den Herder
LDT: John Kissel vs. Manny Fernandez
RDT: Bill Willis vs. Bob Heinz
RDE: Len Ford vs. Bill Stanfill
LLB: Alex Agase vs. Doug Swift
MLB: Tommy Thompson vs. Nick Buonticonti
RLB: Tony Adamle vs. Mike Kolen
DB: Ken Carpenter vs. Tim Fole
DB: Tommy James vs. Curtis
DB: Ken Gogal vs. Jack Scott
DB: Warren Lahr vs. Dick Anderson
Coach: Paul Brown vs. Don Shula
Note: Italics means member of Hall of Fame
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Semifinal Matchups:
Game 21
1984 49ers
vs
1985 Bears
Ditka vs. Walsh, Montana vs McMahon, Payton vs. Roger Craig.
Bears score 28.5 ppg vs. giving up 12.4
49ers score 29.7 vs. giving up 14.2
In addition to Craig, Wendell Tyler was running all over everything and had over 1,200 yards and over 5.0 per carry. and that niner team had a great defense, I think they were more balanced than the Bears. Payton was past his prime, the bears offense scored 28.5 because their sensation defense kept getting them the ball. The 84 niners beat the 84 Bears 23-0 in the NFC Championship. I just think that 84 Niners team was the greatest one-year team I ever saw, followed closely by the 85 bears and the 91 Redskins. When in doubt, look to the quarterback ... who do you want in a close contest, Montana or McMahon? 49ers 20-19.
Game 22:
1950 Browns
vs.
1972 Dolphins
Almost mirror image game. Mentor vs. Student (Paul Brown vs. Don Shula), Otto Graham vs. Bob Griese,
Marion Motley and Dub Jones vs. Csonka and Kiick, Warfield vs. Lavelli and Speedie.
No name defense vs. Big Name defense (Ford, Willis)
Dolphins score 27.5 ppg vs. giving up 12.2
Browns score 25.8 vs. giving up 12.0.
I love my Brownies and they were probably the better team ... but I can't vote against undefeated. It is going to take another undefeated, untied team to knock the Dolphins off their perch as the greatest team, IMO. Simply, no one has proven they can beat them. There is no formula for them losing a football game.
Dolphins 14-Browns 13 as a sniper shoots Lou Groza in the leg while kicking the extra point forcing him to kick it into the crossbar, and it looks like it will still go in, but a second sniper shoots the ball back into the field of play, and since both teams played in an era of no instant replay, the missed extra point stands.
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1984 49ers vs. 1985 Bears:
Offense
QB: Joe Montana vs. Jim McMahon
RB: Wendell Tyler vs. Walter Payton
FB: Roger Craig vs. Matt Suhey
WR: Dwight Clark vs. Willie Gault
WR. Freddie Soloman vs. Dennis McKinnon
TE: Earl Cooper vs. Emery Moorehead
LT: Bubba Paris vs. Jimbo Covert
LG: John Ayers vs. Mark Bortz
OC: Fred Quillan vs. Jay Hilgenberg
RG: Randy Cross vs. Tom Thayer
RT: Keith Fahnhorst vs. Keith Van Horne
Defense:
LdeDE: Jim Stuckey vs. Dan Hampton
NT/DT: Manu Tuiasosopo vs. Steve McMichael
DT: ...........................vs. William Perry
RDE: Dwaine Board vs. Richard Dent
LOLB: Dan Bunz vs. Otis Wilson
LILB/MLB: Riki Ellison vs...................
RILB/MLB: Jack Reynolds vs. Mike Singletary
ROLB: Keena Turner vs. Wilber Marshall
LCB: Ronnie Lott vs. Mike Richardson
RCB: Eric Wright vs. Leslie Frazier
SS: Carlton Williamson vs. Dave Duerson
FS: Dwight Hicks vs. Gary Fencik
K: Ray Wersching vs. Kevin Butler
P: Max Runager vs. Maury Buford
PR: Dana McLemore vs. Ken Taylor
KR: Carl Monroe vs. Willie Gault
Coach: Mike Ditka (as player) vs. Bill Walsh
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Semifinal Matchups:
Game 21
1984 49ers
vs
1985 Bears
Ditka vs. Walsh, Montana vs McMahon, Payton vs. Roger Craig.
Bears score 28.5 ppg vs. giving up 12.4
49ers score 29.7 vs. giving up 14.2
In addition to Craig, Wendell Tyler was running all over everything and had over 1,200 yards and over 5.0 per carry. and that niner team had a great defense, I think they were more balanced than the Bears. Payton was past his prime, the bears offense scored 28.5 because their sensation defense kept getting them the ball. The 84 niners beat the 84 Bears 23-0 in the NFC Championship. I just think that 84 Niners team was the greatest one-year team I ever saw, followed closely by the 85 bears and the 91 Redskins. When in doubt, look to the quarterback ... who do you want in a close contest, Montana or McMahon? 49ers 20-19.
Game 22:
1950 Browns
vs.
1972 Dolphins
Almost mirror image game. Mentor vs. Student (Paul Brown vs. Don Shula), Otto Graham vs. Bob Griese,
Marion Motley and Dub Jones vs. Csonka and Kiick, Warfield vs. Lavelli and Speedie.
No name defense vs. Big Name defense (Ford, Willis)
Dolphins score 27.5 ppg vs. giving up 12.2
Browns score 25.8 vs. giving up 12.0.
I love my Brownies and they were probably the better team ... but I can't vote against undefeated. It is going to take another undefeated, untied team to knock the Dolphins off their perch as the greatest team, IMO. Simply, no one has proven they can beat them. There is no formula for them losing a football game.
Dolphins 14-Browns 13 as a sniper shoots Lou Groza in the leg while kicking the extra point forcing him to kick it into the crossbar, and it looks like it will still go in, but a second sniper shoots the ball back into the field of play, and since both teams played in an era of no instant replay, the missed extra point stands.
Zombo said:
Semifinal Matchups:
Game 21
1984 49ers
vs
1985 Bears
Ditka vs. Walsh, Montana vs McMahon, Payton vs. Roger Craig.
Bears score 28.5 ppg vs. giving up 12.4
49ers score 29.7 vs. giving up 14.2
In addition to Craig, Wendell Tyler was running all over everything and had over 1,200 yards and over 5.0 per carry. and that niner team had a great defense, I think they were more balanced than the Bears. Payton was past his prime, the bears offense scored 28.5 because their sensation defense kept getting them the ball. The 84 niners beat the 84 Bears 23-0 in the NFC Championship. I just think that 84 Niners team was the greatest one-year team I ever saw, followed closely by the 85 bears and the 91 Redskins. When in doubt, look to the quarterback ... who do you want in a close contest, Montana or McMahon? 49ers 20-19.
My vote: Odd that. I agree with you. I agree, look at the QB. And Montana gets that vote every time. The only kicker is that great Bears defense. But, I have to agree again.....and say "whose offense is more likely to get shut down by the opponents defense" And can see the Bears offense being held in check by the 49ers more than I do see the 49ers offense being held in check by the Bears. So, I say it is a 13-10 49ers win.
Game 22:
1950 Browns
vs.
1972 Dolphins
Almost mirror image game. Mentor vs. Student (Paul Brown vs. Don Shula), Otto Graham vs. Bob Griese,
Marion Motley and Dub Jones vs. Csonka and Kiick, Warfield vs. Lavelli and Speedie.
No name defense vs. Big Name defense (Ford, Willis)
Dolphins score 27.5 ppg vs. giving up 12.2
Browns score 25.8 vs. giving up 12.0.
I love my Brownies and they were probably the better team ... but I can't vote against undefeated. It is going to take another undefeated, untied team to knock the Dolphins off their perch as the greatest team, IMO. Simply, no one has proven they can beat them. There is no formula for them losing a football game.
Dolphins 14-Browns 13 as a sniper shoots Lou Groza in the leg while kicking the extra point forcing him to kick it into the crossbar, and it looks like it will still go in, but a second sniper shoots the ball back into the field of play, and since both teams played in an era of no instant replay, the missed extra point stands.
For some of the same reasons that is why I vote for the Browns. Sure, the Dolphins were unbeaten....but I don't think by any means they were unbeatable. The 1972 Browns almost got their number. I thought the 2007 Pats were more unbeatable, and they got beat. Otherwise, offensively they really are mirror images. Motley/Csonka are a wash. Dub Jones could be said to be the white Mercury Morris. The Browns offensive line might have been a scoche better...not much. And I think both defenses are solid.
But...hell, the Browns kicker IS a Hall of Famer.....and Yepremiam ain't. It is Lou who gets the kicks in.. and it is the Browns defense that does to Yepremiam what the Redskins defense did....except this time, it counts as the difference in the game.
Browns 23-20.
Again, look at the QB: Griese is a Hall of Famer...and perhap a baby Otto Graham....but OG is the greatest winner there ever was. (And I think if you look at the records, probably the better passer).
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Semifinal Matchups:
Game 21
1984 49ers
vs
1985 Bears
Ditka vs. Walsh, Montana vs McMahon, Payton vs. Roger Craig.
Bears score 28.5 ppg vs. giving up 12.4
49ers score 29.7 vs. giving up 14.2
Edge to Walsh over Ditka, Montana over McMahon
Game 22:
1950 Browns
vs.
1972 Dolphins
Brown over Shula in the coaching dept. Close game, but the Browns are more talented over all.
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Leave open for a few more votes
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Winners;
1984 San Francisco 49ers
1950 Cleveland Browns.
These 2 play off for the best team of all time.
Make your choice.
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Winners;
1984 San Francisco 49ers
1950 Cleveland Browns.
These 2 play off for the best team of all time.
Make your choice.
Winners;
1984 San Francisco 49ers
1950 Cleveland Browns.
These 2 play off for the best team of all time.
Make your choice
Too much talent to lose. Too good of a coach to loose.
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Final tally on this:
The 1950 Cleveland Browns are the Greatest Team of all time!!!
This, of course was just subjective voting by a few participants.
Recall that I did this entire tournament using a computer program.
It came out with the 1999 St. Louis Rams being the best, defeating the 1948 Browns in the Championship Game.
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