Need some opinions
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When Jones leaves town via FA everyone will be screaming Jenkins or Mays and that wouldnt be a bad ideal.
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I mean to the point of, "Let's draft a guy to develop on Day Two & eventually replace Barton." I wouldn't even be comfortable with that.
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I don't believe that any players will be moved before the draft. Nobody would be willing to pay DA a $5 mil bonus + his 2009 salary and give up a draft pick to us. The one very marketable player we have is Cory Williams. He was a very solid 4-3 one gap DT who could get pressure on the QB and push the pocket from the inside.
Personally, I think Anderson will remain with the team in 2009 as a backup because of that salary and additional cap hit from his ititial signing bonus that was split over the life of his contract. So, if we trade him after March 1st, then we get stuck with the $5 mil + the two years deferred cap money from his original contract. He would be a $7.5 mil cap hit if we trade him after March and then we would have to go out and sign a backup QB for more money.
I don't know if he will bring a 2nd rounder. He may bring a 3rd rounder and I would take it because he has a pretty high cap number and is a waste in the 3-4. He is not a read and react defensive lineman.
Jackson paired with the right guy next to him has a bigger upside then you can get in a trade. Winslow is damaged goods. Shaffer is a slug. There isn't a position with depth where a trade wouldn't hurt more then the whole it would leave. The bottom line is draft choices are worth more then trades for most teams.
so, I say there are two tradable players. Williams and Anderson. Anderson may just be too costly to replace, no matter what you think of him. Teams don't want the rest of our scrap when they can go out and get free agents and keep their draft picks.
Best bet to get additional picks is to trade down. Best partners would be SF if Sanchez is still there when we pick because they may be worried that TB or Minn would trade up ahead of them. The only other player who teams might trade up to get is crabtree if he falls past Seattle.
So, no trades until the top FAs are picked. Then, you may have a team that lost out on a DT who might want Williams or the team that Chud goes to might look at Anderson.
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I don't believe that any players will be moved before the draft. Nobody would be willing to pay DA a $5 mil bonus + his 2009 salary and give up a draft pick to us. The one very marketable player we have is Cory Williams. He was a very solid 4-3 one gap DT who could get pressure on the QB and push the pocket from the inside.
Personally, I think Anderson will remain with the team in 2009 as a backup because of that salary and additional cap hit from his ititial signing bonus that was split over the life of his contract. So, if we trade him after March 1st, then we get stuck with the $5 mil + the two years deferred cap money from his original contract. He would be a $7.5 mil cap hit if we trade him after March and then we would have to go out and sign a backup QB for more money.
I don't know if he will bring a 2nd rounder. He may bring a 3rd rounder and I would take it because he has a pretty high cap number and is a waste in the 3-4. He is not a read and react defensive lineman.
Jackson paired with the right guy next to him has a bigger upside then you can get in a trade. Winslow is damaged goods. Shaffer is a slug. There isn't a position with depth where a trade wouldn't hurt more then the whole it would leave. The bottom line is draft choices are worth more then trades for most teams.
so, I say there are two tradable players. Williams and Anderson. Anderson may just be too costly to replace, no matter what you think of him. Teams don't want the rest of our scrap when they can go out and get free agents and keep their draft picks.
Best bet to get additional picks is to trade down. Best partners would be SF if Sanchez is still there when we pick because they may be worried that TB or Minn would trade up ahead of them. The only other player who teams might trade up to get is crabtree if he falls past Seattle.
So, no trades until the top FAs are picked. Then, you may have a team that lost out on a DT who might want Williams or the team that Chud goes to might look at Anderson.
I don't believe that any players will be moved before the draft or within a few days of it. Nobody would be willing to pay DA a $5 mil bonus + his 2009 salary and give up a draft pick to us. The one very marketable player we have is Cory Williams. He was a very solid 4-3 one gap DT who could get pressure on the QB and push the pocket from the inside.
Personally, I think Anderson will remain with the team in 2009 as a backup because of that salary and additional cap hit from his ititial signing bonus that was split over the life of his contract (for cap purposes). So, if we trade him after March 1st, we get stuck with the $5 mil + the two years deferred cap money from his initial contract bonus. He would be a $7.5 mil cap hit if we trade him after March and then we would have to go out and sign a backup QB for more money.
I don't know if Williams would bring a 2nd rounder. He may bring a 3rd rounder and I would take it because he has a pretty high cap number and is a waste in the 3-4. He is not a read and react defensive lineman.
Jackson paired with the right guy next to him has a bigger upside then you can get back in a trade in the form of a pick. Winslow is damaged goods. Shaffer is a slug. There isn't a position with depth where a trade wouldn't hurt more then the hole it would leave at the position. The bottom line is draft choices are worth more then trades for most teams.
So, I say there are two tradable players. Williams and Anderson. Anderson may just be too costly to replace, no matter what you think of him. Teams don't want the rest of our scrap when they can go out and get free agents and keep their draft picks.
Best bet to get additional picks is to trade down. Best partners would be SF if Sanchez is still there when we pick because they may be worried that TB or Minn would trade up ahead of them. The only other player who teams might trade up to get is crabtree if he falls past Seattle.
So, no trades until the top FAs are picked. Then, you may have a team that lost out on a DT who might want Williams or the team that Chud goes to might look at Anderson.
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I agree YTBB, the history of pre-draft trades isn't very strong.
Trade Anderson or not....we are going to pay the 5 mil. I agree that nobody is going to take him on before March 1, and agree it is more than 50% we will just keep him this year. If we trade him, then we have to go find another qb . Add in the change in management, they may want to see DA and make their own decisions. I mentioned this some time back, but no matter what any of us think of Brady, there were very differing opinions of him when he entered the draft....Mangini may have liked the kid alot, or he may have been in the camp that would have passed on his services....we just don't know. Time will tell where all of that stands.
Williams is an interesting thought..I agree...he is more a 4-3 guy better suited to shoot some gaps...his talents are wasted in our scheme which probably isn't changing much.....but a 3rd rounder isn't out of the question.
My thinking is Edwards may be a guy we seek to move. If I am not mistaken, this is his contract year. He would be a guy we we might be able to trade, the caveat being he signed a new deal with the new team...that might bring a low 1st .
Winslow another though his health is a big question mark for teams...I don't think he would bring all that much.
In the end i agree with your assessment. While it would be of great benefit to us to get something done pre-draft, it isn't very likely.
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I think 2 players are LIKELY gone via trade:
Derek Anderson - He is not going to get us a lot (3rd probably), but for a 3rd he would represent good value to another team. I do agree we probably eat the $5M, but considering his value will actually DROP due to his $7M+ base salary in 2010...we will do what we can to move him. Right now, he can be traded with a contract redo...but next year he would almost certainly need to be cut...so he will get moved (unless he can impress Mangini between now and March 1).
Kellen Winslow - Somebody said we can't get the same value for him as his potential catches represent...and I agree. We are not going to get a 1st for him (but we may get a 2nd and a 3rd). The problem with K2 is that he is ALWAYS injurred...his career is going to be short...is a $4.5M cap hit...is bucking for a new contract...and is a FA after 2010. In other words...he is a prime candidate for trading to create cap space.
Keep in mind, this is a new regime...and they are going to want to make a mark on this team THIS YEAR! That means that NOBODY is immune. It also means they are going to want as many draft picks as possible to get THEIR kind of players on this team. That means big name players we wouldn't otherwise consider trading are very likely to be on the blocks if the price is right.
So others that MAY be on the block are:
Braylon Edwards - He is a $4.5M cap hit this year, and a FA after the season. So, again, due to the desire for this team to remake its image...he may be gone. He is basically seen by many as the picture of the Browns failure this past year.
Brady Quinn - Yes, we may move Quinn and NOT DA. He obviously has WAY MORE trade value than DA...and Mangini and his team may think they can get Sanchez or Stafford with the #5 pick...and get another 1st round pick for Quinn for a key defensive player. Just saying, don't be surprised. In fact, DA and BQ may both go (but I doubt that).
(I would consider moving C.Williams...but we are already WAY short on viable DE's...so I just don't see it happening.)
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That's Retarded, Quinn trumps dirty sanchez and matt stafford in every way. Why would we trade our first round QB just to pick up another one?
I also think that between Edwards and Winslow.... Edwards will definitely be the one to be traded before K2. Dont get me wrong, I love BE, but this is his contract year and we want to get something for him before he decides to skip town and become Dallas' new TO when he retires.
We need our high 2nd rounder, thats when we will draft our savior Rashad Jennings.
We might scoop up some more picks (like another 2nd or 3rd) when we trade down to pick 10, when we draft Maualuga
We will also receive more picks (a 2nd or 3rd) when we trade DA's stank ass.
GO BROWNS 09 BABY!!!!
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hopefully Matthews III will be available at #37.
Get A good tailback at 5.
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AdaM said:
I dont think any mocks have a RB going in the top 5 do they?Seems I just saw one that had us taking Wells......can't remember the publication or site...it wasn't just some fan posting stuff.
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That's Retarded, Quinn trumps dirty sanchez and matt stafford in every way. Why would we trade our first round QB just to pick up another one?
I also think that between Edwards and Winslow.... Edwards will definitely be the one to be traded before K2. Dont get me wrong, I love BE, but this is his contract year and we want to get something for him before he decides to skip town and become Dallas' new TO when he retires.
We need our high 2nd rounder, thats when we will draft our savior Rashad Jennings.
We might scoop up some more picks (like another 2nd or 3rd) when we trade down to pick 10, when we draft Maualuga
We will also receive more picks (a 2nd or 3rd) when we trade DA's stank ass.
GO BROWNS 09 BABY!!!!
That's Retarded, Quinn trumps dirty sanchez and matt stafford in every way. Why would we trade our first round QB just to pick up another one?
play...like I said...this is a NEW REGIME and are likely to want to put their own stamp on the organization. Keep in mind also that both DA and BQ have been under the past regime for 2yrs.
I am not saying they WILL trade both...but I wouldn't be surprised even if they did. I personally think they stop with just trading DA...but NOTHING will surprise me.
This club is now officially in REBUILD. They may just gut the entire team.
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AdaM said:
I dont think any mocks have a RB going in the top 5 do they?Seems I just saw one that had us taking Wells......can't remember the publication or site...it wasn't just some fan posting stuff.
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AdaM said:
I think Beanie is going to be pretty good, but I think our defense is in much greater need right now.I don't get in to needs.....but Wells isn't the 5th best player in the draft...if we take him at #5, I will take a thick rope and hang myself from my deck.
WPD....I agree. Nothing is out of the box...and there are bound to be some moves made that are bound to drive some people nuts.
Just sit back and watch folks...the team you think we have isn't going to be the team we have in 2 years...and Quinn very well could be one of the changes.
Be ready for anything
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@inspecta said:
See what doesn't make sense to me is gutting a team just for the sake of gutting it.Why let guys go who know how to play football at a high level? Wouldn't it make much more sense to get these guys to buy into your system and play for YOU?
Who says that isn't going to happen??
But you know darn good and well there are many opinions on who can play and who can't. You can see that on message boards, scouting reports, and in head coaches talk and actions.
But no..I am not trying to insinuate we are just going to blow it up and start over for the fun of it. Hopefully it is more a dismantling of the parts that aren't good and re-engineered in to something that is.
Palmer took over no team. Just some scrapped players.
Davis took over something a little better
Crennel something a little better than that.
Now Mangini takes over a NFL football team....not all that good, but one that does have some nice parts.
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@inspecta said:
See what doesn't make sense to me is gutting a team just for the sake of gutting it.Why let guys go who know how to play football at a high level? Wouldn't it make much more sense to get these guys to buy into your system and play for YOU?
Who says that isn't going to happen??
But you know darn good and well there are many opinions on who can play and who can't. You can see that on message boards, scouting reports, and in head coaches talk and actions.
But no..I am not trying to insinuate we are just going to blow it up and start over for the fun of it. Hopefully it is more a dismantling of the parts that aren't good and re-engineered in to something that is.
Palmer took over no team. Just some scrapped players.
Davis took over something a little better
Crennel something a little better than that.
Now Mangini takes over a NFL football team....not all that good, but one that does have some nice parts.
Who says that isn't going to happen??
But you know darn good and well there are many opinions on who can play and who can't. You can see that on message boards, scouting reports, and in head coaches talk and actions.
But no..I am not trying to insinuate we are just going to blow it up and start over for the fun of it. Hopefully it is more a dismantling of the parts that aren't good and re-engineered in to something that is.
Palmer took over no team. Just some scrapped players.
Davis took over something a little better
Crennel something a little better than that.
Now Mangini takes over a NFL football team....not all that good, but one that does have some nice parts.
Agreed. I don't think they are just going to BLOW IT UP. But I do think that they will have a definite idea of where this team needs to go both in terms of ideology and in terms of players....and some of the better players we have may not fit within the new vision.
That is why I put the 4 players I did into different categories. The first two (DA/K2) I think will be gone. The other two (BQ/BE) wouldn't surprise me.
C.Williams and DQ may also be on the block...but I don't think they could get enough to warrant it...even if all they represent here is a backup. Outside of those players...we really don't have a lot of trade value. Wimbley maybe, but he also fits into the 'lack of return' even for a backup category.
I really don't think we trade much. But I do think we will see major turnover. Watch for at least 1 OL to be cut. I bet we say goodbye to McGinnest, Orr, Peek, Davis, J.Wright, and a few of the previous regimes 'projects'.
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I doubt there will be any trades before the draft- it always seems trades in the NFL are rare, unless it's actually during the draft. I was really hoping that they'd trade DA during the draft last year, but that never happened. I know the DA topic has been beat to death around this forum, but he represents very little value now given his 2008 performance, his desire to leave here, and his salary.
Please, please, please Mr. Kokonis & Mangini- DO NOT draft a running back at #5. It's DEFENSE we need (Maualuga/Curry/Orakpo). If you aren't looking at those 3, then TRADE the pick and get more choices, if possible.
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