Mallet
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Hoyer didn't make the line look twice as good because he ran. It was because he got the ball out on time, 2.9 instead of Weeden's 4.2, which is a ton. Manning and Brady don't get sacked and it's not because they're so nimble (!).
The Browns line personnel is good, better than at least 22 teams. Maybe more. They're just blocking for a really horrible quarterback who holds the ball like Charlie Frye. Frye out, DA in, line "vastly improves." Weeden out, Hoyer in, line "vastly improves." Again, it's the quarterback. Always is. Look at some of the guys blocking and catching for Rodgers after all the injuries... and he smoked us.
The truth is, Weeden is way more athletic than given credit for. He can move. When he takes off, he runs pretty damn well. He won't time in the 40 but he's WAY faster than Brees, Manning, Brady, and plenty of others. His problems are between his ears. He's a stupid QB. He processes slowly. It looks permanent.
Mariota now has 19 TDs and 0 INTs and has run for almost 500 yards at a 10 ypc clip. He's a freak with no dirt on him. He throws a gorgeous ball and has an NFL arm with consistent accuracy even though he goes downfield a ton. Can he run away from NFL players? Of course. He runs a flipping 4.4. He's faster than RG3. He can absolutely out run about 95% of the players in the NFL. He can turn a sack into a gain. You'll have to account for him... and when you do, he can threaten every blade of grass with his arm.
Grossi said it once again: The Browns will take a quarterback at the top of the draft next year. Period. That was the plan when they robbed Indy for a first round pick. They need to get to Bridgewater or Mariota, whatever it takes. They have a ton of other means to fill other holes.
Once again, running a 4.4 doesn't mean you can evade pressure. It just means you can run a 4.4.
I'm not going to go back and watch every play of his but in the three highlight videos I've seen so far not only was he untouched on his runs, many of them were on either a 3-4 man rush.
He's not going to run past everyone in the NFL, and he's certainly going to see very few 3 man rushes.
Mariota is about two inches taller than RG3 and 10 lbs lighter. He's lankier. He's going to be just as, if not more, prone to injury. I can't imagine a 210 LB QB routinely taking hits from 260-300 LB defenders and staying healthy.
I think you just have a hard on for his speed, and his arm strength is a nice complimenting attribute.
You see Cam Newton, I see a bust.
You watch Mariota and see a bust? Because he has a big arm and great wheels? You wish he threw more picks? You wish he wasn't perfect NFL size at 6'4" and 215?
You lost me on that one. He's got the measurables AND the production. He passes every eyeball test. I have no idea why you see a bust. And he evades EVERYBODY!!
Once again, running a 4.4 doesn't mean you can evade pressure. It just means you can run a 4.4.
I'm not going to go back and watch every play of his but in the three highlight videos I've seen so far not only was he untouched on his runs, many of them were on either a 3-4 man rush.
He's not going to run past everyone in the NFL, and he's certainly going to see very few 3 man rushes.
Mariota is about two inches taller than RG3 and 10 lbs lighter. He's lankier. He's going to be just as, if not more, prone to injury. I can't imagine a 210 LB QB routinely taking hits from 260-300 LB defenders and staying healthy.
I think you just have a hard on for his speed, and his arm strength is a nice complimenting attribute.
You see Cam Newton, I see a bust. -
The Baylor kid is rising really fast. Just to add to the mix.
Mobility is becoming more necessary as teams start bringing more heat... and part of the reason they bring more heat is because you're not really allowed to cover anymore. It's a pass the ball, rush the passer league.
It's really, really tough to get away with a statue QB under those circumstances. Sure, Brady and Manning can do it but they're Brady and Manning. That takes time. Instead of getting sacked his rookie year, Manning threw a thousand picks. Brady dinked and dunked for two years.
Quarterbacks who can break out of a dirty pocket and get a first down really put pressure on a defense. You need to know when to get out of bounds and when to get down, but it's most definitely a highly valued attribute. You're seeing the true pocket passers slotting in behind the guys who can move (nobody's taking Mettenberger over Mariota).
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You watch Mariota and see a bust? Because he has a big arm and great wheels? You wish he threw more picks? You wish he wasn't perfect NFL size at 6'4" and 215?
You lost me on that one. He's got the measurables AND the production. He passes every eyeball test. I have no idea why you see a bust. And he evades EVERYBODY!!
Once again, running a 4.4 doesn't mean you can evade pressure. It just means you can run a 4.4.
I'm not going to go back and watch every play of his but in the three highlight videos I've seen so far not only was he untouched on his runs, many of them were on either a 3-4 man rush.
He's not going to run past everyone in the NFL, and he's certainly going to see very few 3 man rushes.
Mariota is about two inches taller than RG3 and 10 lbs lighter. He's lankier. He's going to be just as, if not more, prone to injury. I can't imagine a 210 LB QB routinely taking hits from 260-300 LB defenders and staying healthy.
I think you just have a hard on for his speed, and his arm strength is a nice complimenting attribute.
You see Cam Newton, I see a bust.
I see a bust because you're blowing him POG style and, based on your track record, your evaluation of QB's is about as on target as a Brandon Weeden slant pass.You watch Mariota and see a bust? Because he has a big arm and great wheels? You wish he threw more picks? You wish he wasn't perfect NFL size at 6'4" and 215?
You lost me on that one. He's got the measurables AND the production. He passes every eyeball test. I have no idea why you see a bust. And he evades EVERYBODY!!
As I said before, show me one example of him shaking off a would be tackler. The guy is practically untouched in the pocket and that's not because of his athleticism. It's because most teams that face Oregon do not have the speed to match and are running 4 and 5 DB's, with a 3 or 4 man rush and a spy on Mariota. Of course he's going to have a clean jersey every game.
In this highlight video, it showcases many of Mariota's big plays from last season. On every single run, he was untouched behind the line of scrimmage. Also, on every single run, he then went down at first meaningful contact (he evaded one guy who dove and slapped his shoe).
Also in this video, there were only two examples of him throwing to receivers that were covered. Nearly all of these passes were either to guys wide open down the field, wide open RB's coming out of the backfield or wide open players coming back on their routes after he scrambles for a couple seconds.
Yes, he has a big arm and is fast. But in every video I've watched so far, he hasn't exhibited anything other than outrunning people slower than him and throwing to his receivers who are outrunning people slower than them.
That's impressive. In college. In the NFL, he's not outrunning everybody. He's going to get pressured and he's going to get hit. There's very little evidence of him dealing with that at this current point in time. That's why I see bust.
It's easy to line your 4.3 speed WR up across from a 4.6 DB and then just chuck him the ball down the field. It's a little different when every DB is running 4.4's and the LB's are running 4.6's.
edit: the video will not link, for some reason.
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Zombo said:
When is Jameis Winston available for the draft, 2014? Scary good.
Zombo
he's a red-shirt freshman. i'd think he's be available in 2 years.
so you either have the FO thinking that hoyer might come back 100% and be good enough with some backup scrub to get us through 2 more agonizing years on offense (weapons) that we could shore up the right side of the OL, get another WR, a serious CB and a RB.
if not, they're going all in on someone next year.
the biggest bust class of QBs in decades.
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I'm on the West Coast and watch a ton of Mariota. If you don't think he's an exciting prospect and an obvious top five pick, either you aren't actually watching him or you don't value athleticism and arm talent in a quarterback. There is no option C.
And my QB acumen is unrivaled in the known universe. Your mind cannot comprehend my powers.
Winston is a redshirt freshman so he only has to play one more year. But you never, ever plan your draft around a guy you'd like to get in two years, before you've even started the next season. Hoyer's healthy, the Browns go 8-8 without multiple picks to trade, they get nowhere near the #1 overall they'd need for Winston.
Nobody nowhere manages personnel like that. It's a great QB draft, the Browns know it, and that's exactly why they stole the extra first round pick from Indy. It's just a matter of who they like best in the top five.
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well, i like what i hear about mariota, but i haven't seen enough of him (being on the east coast) to have seen the kid in action. i hear all the good things.........
what scares me is what TCPO brings up is his size. can he be just a pocket passer? is he bigger or smaller than RG3?
dudes have done great things in college just to fall on their faces in the NFL.
what we should have done in the offseason is hire the scout that watched kaepernik and gave all thumbs up.
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He's big, Mik: 6'4" and 210-215, depending on whom you ask. Quarterbacks always add weight (like most of us) over the years. Runs in the high 4.3s unofficially which would make him the fastest NFL quarterback on day one.
He now has 19 TDs and 0 INTs passing and is considered the current front runner for the Heisman with Bridgewater and Winston right behind him. Three guys I feel pretty damn confident about in the pros. Bridgewater is the most polished, playing in a true pro style and managing the pocket like a 10-year vet.
I love watching Manziel, too. He'd sure as hell sell tickets. Anyone who says he can't make it work in the pros forgets he plays in the SEC. He's playing against ALL future pros! He's my next fave after the top two.
Don't love Hundley. Hugely disappointed in Tajh's bad showing in the bright lights. Brought up old knocks on him (footwork, accuracy, consistency) that he'd mostly shed. Interested to see how far and fast the Baylor kid rises. He has a huge arm and is ringing up numbers.
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The problem with Mariota is defensive coordinators can force him to stay in the pocket and throw the ball. From what I've seen (and I've watched quite a bit of him) he has shown nothing from the pocket other than a rocket arm. As TCPO said, he has thrown deep balls to wide open receivers, not impressive. I am yet to see him step up into the pocket, read a defense, and hit a 3rd or 4th option for a solid first down, but I won't b/c he has the tendency to run before letting the play unfold completely which never works out at the next level. As a "playmaker" he has great potential, as a "quarterback" in the NFL, I have major doubts...
Not to mention, just like Bridgewater, he has played against NOBODY...
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so that basically leaves us with 2 propositions....
hope hoyer comes back, don't spend both firts rounders (expecting gordon NOT to be traded) and fix other needs on both sides of the ball..
OR
spend the bank on a 'new' franchise QB and hope that he lives up to his college prowess.
a lot of really relative thinking going to have to be discussed i.e. like vag said, is hoyer's miniscule body of work worth not picking a guy and hope he performs like he did when in this year or do we take that chance and break the bank on bridgewater or mariota?
boyd INO just fell off the map with the whooping they took from a frosh QB who wde are not ever going to see in our draft sights timing wise.
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so that basically leaves us with 2 propositions....
hope hoyer comes back, don't spend both firts rounders (expecting gordon NOT to be traded) and fix other needs on both sides of the ball..
OR
spend the bank on a 'new' franchise QB and hope that he lives up to his college prowess.
a lot of really relative thinking going to have to be discussed i.e. like vag said, is hoyer's miniscule body of work worth not picking a guy and hope he performs like he did when in this year or do we take that chance and break the bank on bridgewater or mariota?
boyd INO just fell off the map with the whooping they took from a frosh QB who wde are not ever going to see in our draft sights timing wise.
so that basically leaves us with 2 propositions....
hope hoyer comes back, don't spend both firts rounders (expecting gordon NOT to be traded) and fix other needs on both sides of the ball..
OR
spend the bank on a 'new' franchise QB and hope that he lives up to his college prowess.
a lot of really relative thinking going to have to be discussed i.e. like vag said, is hoyer's miniscule body of work worth not picking a guy and hope he performs like he did when in this year or do we take that chance and break the bank on bridgewater or mariota?
boyd INO just fell off the map with the whooping they took from a frosh QB who wde are not ever going to see in our draft sights timing wise.
Man, which ever way we go, it's going to be a fun off season that's for sure. As we stand today, I'm 50/50 on which way to go. Maybe the bowl season will help me decide, as I don't give any credit to the combine........That's where the David Veikune's come from.
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I'm on the West Coast and watch a ton of Mariota. If you don't think he's an exciting prospect and an obvious top five pick, either you aren't actually watching him or you don't value athleticism and arm talent in a quarterback. There is no option C.
And my QB acumen is unrivaled in the known universe. Your mind cannot comprehend my powers.
Winston is a redshirt freshman so he only has to play one more year. But you never, ever plan your draft around a guy you'd like to get in two years, before you've even started the next season. Hoyer's healthy, the Browns go 8-8 without multiple picks to trade, they get nowhere near the #1 overall they'd need for Winston.
Nobody nowhere manages personnel like that. It's a great QB draft, the Browns know it, and that's exactly why they stole the extra first round pick from Indy. It's just a matter of who they like best in the top five.
I'm on the West Coast and watch a ton of Mariota. If you don't think he's an exciting prospect and an obvious top five pick, either you aren't actually watching him or you don't value athleticism and arm talent in a quarterback. There is no option C.
how about brains? I would put that above A&B. Peyton manning dont have a cannon arm or throw a pretty spiral, he sure the hell isnt athletic, but he has a mind for the game. Same could be said for Brady, Eli, Ryan, Bress, etc.
And my QB acumen is unrivaled in the known universe. Your mind cannot comprehend my powers. yeah sure, but when you like all of the QB's you can't be wrong either?
Winston is a redshirt freshman so he only has to play one more year. But you never, ever plan your draft around a guy you'd like to get in two years, before you've even started the next season. Hoyer's healthy, the Browns go 8-8 without multiple picks to trade, they get nowhere near the #1 overall they'd need for Winston.
Nobody nowhere manages personnel like that. It's a great QB draft, the Browns know it, and that's exactly why they stole the extra first round pick from Indy. It's just a matter of who they like best in the top five.
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I'm on the West Coast and watch a ton of Mariota. If you don't think he's an exciting prospect and an obvious top five pick, either you aren't actually watching him or you don't value athleticism and arm talent in a quarterback. There is no option C.
And my QB acumen is unrivaled in the known universe. Your mind cannot comprehend my powers.
Winston is a redshirt freshman so he only has to play one more year. But you never, ever plan your draft around a guy you'd like to get in two years, before you've even started the next season. Hoyer's healthy, the Browns go 8-8 without multiple picks to trade, they get nowhere near the #1 overall they'd need for Winston.
Nobody nowhere manages personnel like that. It's a great QB draft, the Browns know it, and that's exactly why they stole the extra first round pick from Indy. It's just a matter of who they like best in the top five.
I'm on the West Coast and watch a ton of Mariota. If you don't think he's an exciting prospect and an obvious top five pick, either you aren't actually watching him or you don't value athleticism and arm talent in a quarterback. There is no option C.
And my QB acumen is unrivaled in the known universe. Your mind cannot comprehend my powers.
Winston is a redshirt freshman so he only has to play one more year. But you never, ever plan your draft around a guy you'd like to get in two years, before you've even started the next season. Hoyer's healthy, the Browns go 8-8 without multiple picks to trade, they get nowhere near the #1 overall they'd need for Winston.
Nobody nowhere manages personnel like that. It's a great QB draft, the Browns know it, and that's exactly why they stole the extra first round pick from Indy. It's just a matter of who they like best in the top five.
I think everyone realizes we aren't tanking for 2 years to grab Winston. It just looks obvious that the kid has way more talent than most of this year's QB class. TCPO is correct in that Mariota is never under pressure. They few times he is, he looks like Colt Mccoy checking down to a guy that is triple covered 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage.. Mariota has speed, but I want a QB that has a quick release while still having the vision to look at multiple WRs before checking down or throwing the ball away..
That said, I would take Mariota over Johnny Football since the former can throw a spiral beyond 10 yards.. But that's like saying Weeden is better than Gabbert..
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And bridgewater don't play in a "true pro style offense" The last Qb that came out of college that ran a "true pro style Offense" was andrew luck.
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so that basically leaves us with 2 propositions....
hope hoyer comes back, don't spend both firts rounders (expecting gordon NOT to be traded) and fix other needs on both sides of the ball..
OR
spend the bank on a 'new' franchise QB and hope that he lives up to his college prowess.
a lot of really relative thinking going to have to be discussed i.e. like vag said, is hoyer's miniscule body of work worth not picking a guy and hope he performs like he did when in this year or do we take that chance and break the bank on bridgewater or mariota?
boyd INO just fell off the map with the whooping they took from a frosh QB who wde are not ever going to see in our draft sights timing wise.
Man, which ever way we go, it's going to be a fun off season that's for sure. As we stand today, I'm 50/50 on which way to go. Maybe the bowl season will help me decide, as I don't give any credit to the combine........That's where the David Veikune's come from.
Man, which ever way we go, it's going to be a fun off season that's for sure. As we stand today, I'm 50/50 on which way to go.
isn't it just total bullshit though that this is what we are discussing 7 weeks into a 16 week football schedule? like if weeden even showed a 'little' promise we could be talking about other things?
it seems like it's been groundhog day for 15 years now.
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Man, which ever way we go, it's going to be a fun off season that's for sure. As we stand today, I'm 50/50 on which way to go.
isn't it just total bullshit though that this is what we are discussing 7 weeks into a 16 week football schedule? like if weeden even showed a 'little' promise we could be talking about other things?
it seems like it's been groundhog day for 15 years now.
isn't it just total bullshit though that this is what we are discussing 7 weeks into a 16 week football schedule? like if weeden even showed a 'little' promise we could be talking about other things?
it seems like it's been groundhog day for 15 years now.
Yup, absolutely makes me sick to my stomach to think what would be if Brian would've just slid the right way. I have no way to prove of course, but I have no doubt in my mind that we would be right there with KC as this year's feelgood story. It felt like the '80s again for those 2.1 games.
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Manziel.
Manziel.
ok, i'll make my own bed now. if 'whoever' picks manziel and he turns into johnny football in the NFL i will gladly eat crow and send you a 6 of the best brew you can think of,
but at the same time if he shits the bed i expect the same from you.
just don't see him on the next level except 2 games and a body bag.
bet?
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Manziel.
ok, i'll make my own bed now. if 'whoever' picks manziel and he turns into johnny football in the NFL i will gladly eat crow and send you a 6 of the best brew you can think of,
but at the same time if he shits the bed i expect the same from you.
just don't see him on the next level except 2 games and a body bag.
bet?
ok, i'll make my own bed now. if 'whoever' picks manziel and he turns into johnny football in the NFL i will gladly eat crow and send you a 6 of the best brew you can think of,
but at the same time if he shits the bed i expect the same from you.
just don't see him on the next level except 2 games and a body bag.
bet?
I agree with you. Not only because he isn't big enough but also because I think his attitude is not going to work at the next level.
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Man, which ever way we go, it's going to be a fun off season that's for sure. As we stand today, I'm 50/50 on which way to go.
isn't it just total bullshit though that this is what we are discussing 7 weeks into a 16 week football schedule? like if weeden even showed a 'little' promise we could be talking about other things?
it seems like it's been groundhog day for 15 years now.
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