How About a Little Honesty
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I'm no Dallas fan, and there are certainly a number of things about Jerry Jones that I don't like. However, one of the qualities that he appears (to me; I could be wrong) to display is a certain level of candor about the performance and direction of the team. By that, I mean that if things aren't going well in Dallas, it seems like Jerry is quick to both admit it and openly criticize those he thinks are responsible (including himself, on occasion). I'd like to see that kind of honesty in Cleveland.
I think that hiring Chud was a mistake in the first place, and I think it was a bigger mistake to espouse the idea of starting from scratch in order to realize Chud's vision. That being said, I do think the front office shafted him a little. From what I understood, they offered him the blessing and the time to scrap the existing team and build one that would match his own ideas, but then fired him for it at the end of the season. I don't think he should have gotten the blessing or the time to start over, but I think the front office did him wrong by seemingly agreeing to that and then bouncing him for it.
I distinctly remember seeing Banner reassure the fans and the media earlier in the season and warn that we needed to be patient and just trust the organization. From the sounds of things, the claim from the front office seemed to be that, despite appearances, everything was going exactly according to some master plan that we were all too short-sighted to see. The firing of the head coach, however, does not suggest that to me, though. It instead suggests that, like we/I feared, some serious mistakes and poor decisions were made back when we/I thought they were.
Is it too much to ask for a little honesty and forthrightness? Instead of jumping directly from "we're behind this guy all the way, and we think everything is going perfectly, and you just can't see it yet" to "this is a such a disaster that we can't even give this guy anymore time", could we not request some indications somewhere along the way regarding whether or not the front office still feels like things are going according to plan? I would think that there may have been a transition and that I simply missed it, but all indications seem to be that most people (if not everyone) in the know were similarly surprised by Chud's firing.
I'm assuming that it's a reluctance on the part of the Browns to publicly admit (in the middle of the season) that they've made mistakes, but it eventually all comes out anyway (when you fire the head coach at the end of the season), so why not just be honest about it? The front office couldn't/shouldn't have suddenly realized in Week 17 that things had gone off-track this season (and if they did, that's alarming), so why not come out and say it when you realize it? The front office needs to stop being so worried about saving face in the moment and be upfront about those things they try that do and don't work. I think every Browns fan recognizes that turning the Browns around is a huge and difficult challenge, and I think a lot of us would be a lot more forgiving about the "trial and error" period if the organization was willing to be honest about the state of progress during that period.
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Honesty? You're asking this owner, who's other company is under investigation for fraud to be honest? Not to mention bringing in an egomaniac like Banner, and a snake in the grass like Lombardi? Good luck with all of that!
I don't trust a damn thing these morons say! -
Yep, they sold us on Chud, told all to keep calm and be patient ... and then fired him the second the season was over.
I felt glad for Phil Dawson yesterday kicking that game winning field goal for a playoff team. I'm sure he is happy to be out of this schizophrenic organization.
How are we supposed to attract free agents when the brass just admitted they don't know how to hire a coach, let alone pull off a draft.
Zombo
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Yep, they sold us on Chud, told all to keep calm and be patient ... and then fired him the second the season was over.
I felt glad for Phil Dawson yesterday kicking that game winning field goal for a playoff team. I'm sure he is happy to be out of this schizophrenic organization.
How are we supposed to attract free agents when the brass just admitted they don't know how to hire a coach, let alone pull off a draft.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Yep, they sold us on Chud, told all to keep calm and be patient ... and then fired him the second the season was over.
I felt glad for Phil Dawson yesterday kicking that game winning field goal for a playoff team. I'm sure he is happy to be out of this schizophrenic organization.
How are we supposed to attract free agents when the brass just admitted they don't know how to hire a coach, let alone pull off a draft.
Zombo
I hate to say it, but do you think that the NFL set this team up to fail? 2 winning seasons, and 1 playoff appearance since 1999. I hate to use that excuse, because they've been back several years, and at some point you have to see progress. But this continued losing just defies logic! No matter the coach, the QB, the GM, the VP, and apparently now the owner, it's the same shit!!! It's like watching the movie Ground Hog Day!
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It's not the NFL. It's a series of bad decisions and a refusal to commit to winning. Aside from Holmgren, who has the organization hired that's ever had proven success? And, honestly, Holmgren didn't do that well at the helm in Seattle before we got him. What major free agents has the organization ever acquired? Consider the people behind the scenes, even. How has the Browns scouting been?
Is Cleveland a tough location to which to lure skilled people? Maybe. What's the problem? It's cold? It's cold a lot of places. It's a small market? Pittsburgh is a significantly smaller city with a significantly bigger fan base. Why? Because they've had success. Money isn't the answer to everything (ask Daniel Snyder), but the Browns are going to have to stop cutting corners and trying to save a buck at some point and begin to hire people who have some idea what they are doing.
Maybe the answer comes from better scouting and a little creativity. The Pirates had one of the lowest payrolls in the MLB in a league that doesn't have a salary cap. Somehow, though, they were able to scrape together enough young, under-valued talent to produce some positive results. When they did that, their revenue (ticket sales, jerseys, hats, television revenue, etc.) rose dramatically. If the Browns excuse for continued failure is that they don't have the money to bring in the non-player staff they need to build a solid team, then they need to change their approach. "Moneyball" is a controversial topic and may not be the exact solution to the Browns problems, but a number of small market MLB and NBA teams are now giving it a try. Maybe the Browns need to figure out an alternative way to squeeze success out of an organization that doesn't have tons of money or appeal to throw at big name staff members. That's not the same as bringing in any low-rent Joe Schmoe that will accept the job, though.
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I'm no Dallas fan, and there are certainly a number of things about Jerry Jones that I don't like. However, one of the qualities that he appears (to me; I could be wrong) to display is a certain level of candor about the performance and direction of the team. By that, I mean that if things aren't going well in Dallas, it seems like Jerry is quick to both admit it and openly criticize those he thinks are responsible (including himself, on occasion). I'd like to see that kind of honesty in Cleveland.
I think that hiring Chud was a mistake in the first place, and I think it was a bigger mistake to espouse the idea of starting from scratch in order to realize Chud's vision. That being said, I do think the front office shafted him a little. From what I understood, they offered him the blessing and the time to scrap the existing team and build one that would match his own ideas, but then fired him for it at the end of the season. I don't think he should have gotten the blessing or the time to start over, but I think the front office did him wrong by seemingly agreeing to that and then bouncing him for it.
I distinctly remember seeing Banner reassure the fans and the media earlier in the season and warn that we needed to be patient and just trust the organization. From the sounds of things, the claim from the front office seemed to be that, despite appearances, everything was going exactly according to some master plan that we were all too short-sighted to see. The firing of the head coach, however, does not suggest that to me, though. It instead suggests that, like we/I feared, some serious mistakes and poor decisions were made back when we/I thought they were.
Is it too much to ask for a little honesty and forthrightness? Instead of jumping directly from "we're behind this guy all the way, and we think everything is going perfectly, and you just can't see it yet" to "this is a such a disaster that we can't even give this guy anymore time", could we not request some indications somewhere along the way regarding whether or not the front office still feels like things are going according to plan? I would think that there may have been a transition and that I simply missed it, but all indications seem to be that most people (if not everyone) in the know were similarly surprised by Chud's firing.
I'm assuming that it's a reluctance on the part of the Browns to publicly admit (in the middle of the season) that they've made mistakes, but it eventually all comes out anyway (when you fire the head coach at the end of the season), so why not just be honest about it? The front office couldn't/shouldn't have suddenly realized in Week 17 that things had gone off-track this season (and if they did, that's alarming), so why not come out and say it when you realize it? The front office needs to stop being so worried about saving face in the moment and be upfront about those things they try that do and don't work. I think every Browns fan recognizes that turning the Browns around is a huge and difficult challenge, and I think a lot of us would be a lot more forgiving about the "trial and error" period if the organization was willing to be honest about the state of progress during that period.
I'm no Dallas fan, and there are certainly a number of things about Jerry Jones that I don't like. However, one of the qualities that he appears (to me; I could be wrong) to display is a certain level of candor about the performance and direction of the team. By that, I mean that if things aren't going well in Dallas, it seems like Jerry is quick to both admit it and openly criticize those he thinks are responsible (including himself, on occasion). I'd like to see that kind of honesty in Cleveland.
I think that hiring Chud was a mistake in the first place, and I think it was a bigger mistake to espouse the idea of starting from scratch in order to realize Chud's vision. That being said, I do think the front office shafted him a little. From what I understood, they offered him the blessing and the time to scrap the existing team and build one that would match his own ideas, but then fired him for it at the end of the season. I don't think he should have gotten the blessing or the time to start over, but I think the front office did him wrong by seemingly agreeing to that and then bouncing him for it.
I distinctly remember seeing Banner reassure the fans and the media earlier in the season and warn that we needed to be patient and just trust the organization.
Is it too much to ask for a little honesty and forthrightness? Instead of jumping directly from "we're behind this guy all the way, and we think everything is going perfectly, and you just can't see it yet" to "this is a such a disaster that we can't even give this guy anymore time", could we not request some indications somewhere along the way ...
I'm assuming that it's a reluctance on the part of the Browns to publicly admit (in the middle of the season) that they've made mistakes, but it eventually all comes out anyway (when you fire the head coach at the end of the season), so why not just be honest about it?
Nice, ernest write-up... that I just happen to disagree with...
To hold up Jones as an example of candor is laughable. Jerry speaks out because he loves the spotlight. Once he commanded attention with a winning desendant of "America's Team", but those days are long gone. So now he commands it with his "candor". However, perfect candor would include an honest assessment of his enormous, personal responsibility for the 'Boys' mediocrity. But since I enjoy their suffering, please don't tell him that he's a huge part of the problem.
Second, I am not sure what you meant by "Chud's vision" and "starting from scratch". Chud is a disciple of the vertical passing game and he (and the FO) brought in his mentor to run that offense. Any chance that Wheezy had for success was maximized by Norv's vertical scheme. It just turned out that his chance level was always pegged at zero.
Last... IMO you don't publicly air out laundry in mid-season.
I hate to say it, but do you think that the NFL set this team up to fail?
No...
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Cowboys fans can't wait for Jerry Jones to die. As a browns fan I can't wait to die.
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Tour2ma, Really? You'd rather the organization pretend everything is going exactly according to plan during the season and then admit that it is crap at the end? I'd rather they were just honest throughout. Give me a good: "We thought this would work, but it is obvious now that we were wrong all along. We asked you to trust us, and obviously that trust would have been misplaced. We're going to pursue other avenues now, while trying to be mindful of the mistakes we made this season."
And you guys are too wrapped up in the Jerry Jones reference now (I kind of expected that to happen). I only mentioned him because he was the first person I thought of who I've seen come out in midseason and admit that the organization was doing an awful job. Forget the Jerry reference. I just don't want Banner and Lombardi telling me that they've got it all under control and everything is going exactly the way they want it to when they know good and well that they've made a terrible mistake.
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I am against firing a coach after his first newbie year even experienced coaching scum like mangini deserved a second year but not a 3rd..
As fans we have been through much and deserve better than haslam and his cronies lack of insight is providing..
In all honesty i will likely not even sub to the sunday ticket for the first time ever unless some answers are provided quickly..
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Banner should have at least had the nuts to admit and vocalize the fact he and Chud had conflict.
Banner should have at least had the nuts to admit and vocalize the fact he and Chud had conflict.
Y would he do that to chud?
That information gets out and on paper chud never gets a job again.
Remember banner is the employer chud WAS the employee.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
Agreed. Has either of them even come out and said this now? I'd feel a little better if I heard that there was constant bickering. I'd be able to better side with Chud (I don't now), if I heard either of them say that he tried to do all kinds of things and they kept shooting him down. Then I could say, "Oh, yeah, well, he WAS going to do some good stuff, but his hands were tied. DAMN the FO!" Right now, I'm kind of on the side of firing him, because I don't see how he did anything but waste a year waiting for the next draft.
cdl15, I don't necessarily think that's true. It wouldn't be the first time a coach and the FO openly disagreed on things. It doesn't necessarily end in the ostracism of the coach.
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