Holes
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Hell, the only reason I looked at this thread because I thought there might be some porn.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Why did I post the above video? To ascertain where the Browns may emulate the things in there. In other words, where are our gaping Holes?
A. Start with QB.....obviously
B. Next is RB.
C. Offensive Guard.
D. #2 WR
E. Inside Linebacker
F. #2 CB?
G. If Mack leaves then Center would be a massive hole
H. If Ward leaves then SS would be a massive hole
Why did I post the above video? To ascertain where the Browns may emulate the things in there. In other words, where are our gaping Holes?
A. Start with QB.....obviously
B. Next is RB.
C. Offensive Guard.
D. #2 WR
E. Inside Linebacker
F. #2 CB?
G. If Mack leaves then Center would be a massive hole
H. If Ward leaves then SS would be a massive hole
I have it a little bit different
A. QB
No brainer here, even if our future QB is already on the team...let me rephrase is Hoyer is the answer we still need to know that.
1rd of draft
B. ILB
Robertson got exposed, DQ could get cut
2-3 rd of draft, FA
C. WR
We need a #2 and #3 WR to go along with Gordon and Benjerman as a spread - downfield threat
1-2 Rd draft / FA
D. RB
We need a 1st and 2nd down runner to compliment Dion Lewis and Oby
4-5 rds of draft / FA
E. CB
Skrine is serviceable but we need someone who can Jam at the line and compete with taller WR in the redzone
3-4th rds
F.Guard
Its the lowest of the holes but I am not saying its not important, We have a pretty decent line actually - getting depth at interior lineman, especially if mack leaves.
FA/ 2-4 rds in draft
G. Kicker
Billy C got it done, but need someone with a stronger leg
FA/ undrafted FA
H. Safety
I think they will keep Ward, if they don't - this shoots up the list, but even if they do they should bring someone in to compete with Gipson and to use to cover big receivers in 5 WR sets
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1. LBs - Inside... Outside... whicheverside... QB might rate being above any single LB spot, but there are 4 LB spots...
We can minimize the "holes" here by returning to the 4-3 and putting Sheard and Kruger back at DE, where they belong, but then we still need to fill 2 holes. And in that I am assuming Mingo will make it as an OLB... not a given.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
1. LBs - Inside... Outside... whicheverside... QB might rate being above any single LB spot, but there are 4 LB spots...
We can minimize the "holes" here by returning to the 4-3 and putting Sheard and Kruger back at DE, where they belong, but then we still need to fill 2 holes. And in that I am assuming Mingo will make it as an OLB... not a given.
Kruger imo wouldn't make a good 4-3 DE, and if we switch we would have like 5 DTs. Mingo would become relatively useless unless he learns another new position, and Sheard wasnt the best DE either. Our front seven is MUCH more suited to the 3-4. If we cut Jackson we need 2 ILB and a corner, maybe a S. I think we should restructure Jackson and either make a run at Donald Butler if hes available or draft an ILB with one of our first 3 picks.1. LBs - Inside... Outside... whicheverside... QB might rate being above any single LB spot, but there are 4 LB spots...
We can minimize the "holes" here by returning to the 4-3 and putting Sheard and Kruger back at DE, where they belong, but then we still need to fill 2 holes. And in that I am assuming Mingo will make it as an OLB... not a given.
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Hell, the only reason I looked at this thread because I thought there might be some porn.
Hell, the only reason I looked at this thread because I thought there might be some porn.
LOL!!
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Kruger imo wouldn't make a good 4-3 DE, and if we switch we would have like 5 DTs. Mingo would become relatively useless unless he learns another new position, and Sheard wasnt the best DE either. Our front seven is MUCH more suited to the 3-4. If we cut Jackson we need 2 ILB and a corner, maybe a S. I think we should restructure Jackson and either make a run at Donald Butler if hes available or draft an ILB with one of our first 3 picks.1. LBs - Inside... Outside... whicheverside... QB might rate being above any single LB spot, but there are 4 LB spots...
We can minimize the "holes" here by returning to the 4-3 and putting Sheard and Kruger back at DE, where they belong, but then we still need to fill 2 holes. And in that I am assuming Mingo will make it as an OLB... not a given.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Kruger imo wouldn't make a good 4-3 DE, and if we switch we would have like 5 DTs. Mingo would become relatively useless unless he learns another new position, and Sheard wasnt the best DE either. Our front seven is MUCH more suited to the 3-4. If we cut Jackson we need 2 ILB and a corner, maybe a S. I think we should restructure Jackson and either make a run at Donald Butler if hes available or draft an ILB with one of our first 3 picks.
I agree that our DL does not convert well to a 4-3 as essentially all are 4-3 DT's. That's why I put Kruger and Sheard back down in 3-points.
Kruger, Sheard and Mingo are all DE-2-OLB conversion experiments. Of them I only see 3-down potential in Mingo at OLB.
Kruger certainly has been the most successful convert, but he was a good, but slightly light, college DE and at BLT, in obvious passing situations, he spent time in a 3-point and did well out of it. Now at 280+ I think he's a pass coverage liability as an OLB, but built to be a 4-3 DE.
I think Sheard was substantially more effective in his 2 years at DE than his one at OLB.
- Tackles: In 2012 he was 14th among D-linemen with 55; in 2011 he was T-15th with 55. In 2013 he was T-69th among LBs with 36 (in 13 games... adjusts up to 44).
- Sacks: His sack per game fell slightly as a stand up ILB (and I think one or two of his 2013 sacks were actually out of a 3-point, but I am not positive).
Again though, as with Kruger, it's Sheard's pass coverage skills that concern me. He had as many PDs in 2 years at DE as he did in his one at OLB.
When your tackle and pass figures both fall when you go from DE in a 4-3 to OLB in a 3-4... something is wrong... and here I think it was the way he was used.
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1. QB - every year, if you don't have YOUR guy, this is #1 for every team
2. WR2 - don't need a top-flight WR, but we badly need to find a dependable #2
3. LB - like above, this depends on scheme. if we go 4-down, we need a OLB, if we stay 3-down, we need an ILB
4. FS - defense needs that center fielder to play next to Ward, somebody who gas great coverage skills
5. RB - yeah... look at ours, but I rank it at 5 b/c it shouldn't be hard to find somebody
6. G - can find good guards all over, we just need to get a good one that fits our play-calling
7. CB2 - I like Skrine, and think he will continue to do well, but it would be nice to get somebody with better size to compete with him
#Justsayin' -
Kruger imo wouldn't make a good 4-3 DE, and if we switch we would have like 5 DTs. Mingo would become relatively useless unless he learns another new position, and Sheard wasnt the best DE either. Our front seven is MUCH more suited to the 3-4. If we cut Jackson we need 2 ILB and a corner, maybe a S. I think we should restructure Jackson and either make a run at Donald Butler if hes available or draft an ILB with one of our first 3 picks.1. LBs - Inside... Outside... whicheverside... QB might rate being above any single LB spot, but there are 4 LB spots...
We can minimize the "holes" here by returning to the 4-3 and putting Sheard and Kruger back at DE, where they belong, but then we still need to fill 2 holes. And in that I am assuming Mingo will make it as an OLB... not a given.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Kruger imo wouldn't make a good 4-3 DE, and if we switch we would have like 5 DTs. Mingo would become relatively useless unless he learns another new position, and Sheard wasnt the best DE either. Our front seven is MUCH more suited to the 3-4. If we cut Jackson we need 2 ILB and a corner, maybe a S. I think we should restructure Jackson and either make a run at Donald Butler if hes available or draft an ILB with one of our first 3 picks.
I couldn't disagree more. Sheard was a great 4-3 DE and Kruger was a 2nd round pick b/c he was so good as a DE in college. Mingo has the perfect frame to play 4-3 OLB, and he already has a year learning coverage so he would need to continue his growth there. Jackson is a pro bowl ILB with 4 lineman in front of him, but he has always struggled in the 3-4. Robertson played much better as a 4-3 OLB in 2012, compared to last year. In no way does our current front 7 fit the 3-4 better... but we'll know which way they're going based on FA and the draft
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Kruger imo wouldn't make a good 4-3 DE, and if we switch we would have like 5 DTs. Mingo would become relatively useless unless he learns another new position, and Sheard wasnt the best DE either. Our front seven is MUCH more suited to the 3-4. If we cut Jackson we need 2 ILB and a corner, maybe a S. I think we should restructure Jackson and either make a run at Donald Butler if hes available or draft an ILB with one of our first 3 picks.
I couldn't disagree more. Sheard was a great 4-3 DE and Kruger was a 2nd round pick b/c he was so good as a DE in college. Mingo has the perfect frame to play 4-3 OLB, and he already has a year learning coverage so he would need to continue his growth there. Jackson is a pro bowl ILB with 4 lineman in front of him, but he has always struggled in the 3-4. Robertson played much better as a 4-3 OLB in 2012, compared to last year. In no way does our current front 7 fit the 3-4 better... but we'll know which way they're going based on FA and the draft
Sheard has never been great. Sheard is fighting to be average. Mingo was a great DE in college too, you want to move him to the LIne? Kruger would also be average on the DLine, and if we do switch Id imagine he would be cut considering his price tag. So now wed need two DEs, at least one OLB (depending on Mingo), possibly a new ILB, and a corner.I couldn't disagree more. Sheard was a great 4-3 DE and Kruger was a 2nd round pick b/c he was so good as a DE in college. Mingo has the perfect frame to play 4-3 OLB, and he already has a year learning coverage so he would need to continue his growth there. Jackson is a pro bowl ILB with 4 lineman in front of him, but he has always struggled in the 3-4. Robertson played much better as a 4-3 OLB in 2012, compared to last year. In no way does our current front 7 fit the 3-4 better... but we'll know which way they're going based on FA and the draft
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1. QB - every year, if you don't have YOUR guy, this is #1 for every team
2. WR2 - don't need a top-flight WR, but we badly need to find a dependable #2
3. LB - like above, this depends on scheme. if we go 4-down, we need a OLB, if we stay 3-down, we need an ILB
4. FS - defense needs that center fielder to play next to Ward, somebody who gas great coverage skills
5. RB - yeah... look at ours, but I rank it at 5 b/c it shouldn't be hard to find somebody
6. G - can find good guards all over, we just need to get a good one that fits our play-calling
7. CB2 - I like Skrine, and think he will continue to do well, but it would be nice to get somebody with better size to compete with him
1. QB - every year, if you don't have YOUR guy, this is #1 for every team
I have always maintained that you always need to be looking for your next QB even if you have your franchise in hand. It's how you end up with Cassels or Flynns that bring you a return if nothing else. And sometimes you even end up with one that become your franchise.
But the very next rule is do not let need convince you that something is there when it is not... or you end up with Wheezys and Quinns and (insert 2014 bust here)...
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Sheard has never been great. Sheard is fighting to be average. Mingo was a great DE in college too, you want to move him to the LIne? Kruger would also be average on the DLine, and if we do switch Id imagine he would be cut considering his price tag. So now wed need two DEs, at least one OLB (depending on Mingo), possibly a new ILB, and a corner.I couldn't disagree more. Sheard was a great 4-3 DE and Kruger was a 2nd round pick b/c he was so good as a DE in college. Mingo has the perfect frame to play 4-3 OLB, and he already has a year learning coverage so he would need to continue his growth there. Jackson is a pro bowl ILB with 4 lineman in front of him, but he has always struggled in the 3-4. Robertson played much better as a 4-3 OLB in 2012, compared to last year. In no way does our current front 7 fit the 3-4 better... but we'll know which way they're going based on FA and the draft
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Sheard has never been great. Sheard is fighting to be average. Mingo was a great DE in college too, you want to move him to the LIne? Kruger would also be average on the DLine, and if we do switch Id imagine he would be cut considering his price tag. So now wed need two DEs, at least one OLB (depending on Mingo), possibly a new ILB, and a corner.
Try actually supporting your position rather than just waving your hands in the air and raising extraneous arguments...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Too many holes in the logic...
My try:
1.A. WR2 - Because Kyle knows Hoyer, and respects his skills significantly. But this years crop of qb's
are not elite - questions about all of them. So, with the 4th pick, it's qb or wr. Second first rounder, qb or wr.
1.B. QB - Hoyer will start - he knows too much ,and can do too much to simply let a new kid
come on board, and struggle at first. Better to let him take over when he's ready and Hoyer
gets banged up.
2. LB - Because the Browns lbs need to be faster, quicker, for the pass defense job. And a couple of them,
like the Christain Gaines ? and Yearwood, something like that, won't be around later. If 'wood falls to
the Browns to the 3rd round, after the showing at the combine, I'd be stunned.
3.A. CB - this a must - another shutdown cb who is taller, and can nail it down, leaving the rest of passing game
to the safeties and lb's. Most NFL teams will be looking for them. And there aren't too many tall cb's out there this
year who can step in, to wait longer..
3.B. ROG/OC - A major backup/starter. Because our ORG is holding the passing game back, and making
life for our ROT rough. And if he gets hurt, it will be ugly.
4. RB - Without the blocking, no rb has a chance. Some teams can plug in different rb's, and they keep rolling.
All sorts of rb's.
5. Galloppolo won't be here, but if he was, I'd nab him.
Ten picks - some small school safeties, cb's, and a kicker, ....TE from some small school.
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1. QB - every year, if you don't have YOUR guy, this is #1 for every team
2. WR2 - don't need a top-flight WR, but we badly need to find a dependable #2
3. LB - like above, this depends on scheme. if we go 4-down, we need a OLB, if we stay 3-down, we need an ILB
4. FS - defense needs that center fielder to play next to Ward, somebody who gas great coverage skills
5. RB - yeah... look at ours, but I rank it at 5 b/c it shouldn't be hard to find somebody
6. G - can find good guards all over, we just need to get a good one that fits our play-calling
7. CB2 - I like Skrine, and think he will continue to do well, but it would be nice to get somebody with better size to compete with him
1. QB - every year, if you don't have YOUR guy, this is #1 for every team
2. WR2 - don't need a top-flight WR, but we badly need to find a dependable #2
Yea, I would rather they use our 2 1st rounders on a QB/LB. Pick up that WR in round 2-3
3. LB - like above, this depends on scheme. if we go 4-down, we need a OLB, if we stay 3-down, we need an ILB
I think we are good on OLBs. No matter what the scheme we need an ILB or 2
4. FS - defense needs that center fielder to play next to Ward, somebody who gas great coverage skills
I think this position is in good hands with Gipson
5. RB - yeah... look at ours, but I rank it at 5 b/c it shouldn't be hard to find somebody
6. G - can find good guards all over, we just need to get a good one that fits our play-calling
7. CB2 - I like Skrine, and think he will continue to do well, but it would be nice to get somebody with better size to compete with him
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1 butt
2 sink
3 hell
4 shit
5 pie
6 ass
7 mole/mouse
8 black
9 worm
10 glory
11 Jackson
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Sheard has never been great. Sheard is fighting to be average. Mingo was a great DE in college too, you want to move him to the LIne? Kruger would also be average on the DLine, and if we do switch Id imagine he would be cut considering his price tag. So now wed need two DEs, at least one OLB (depending on Mingo), possibly a new ILB, and a corner.
Try actually supporting your position rather than just waving your hands in the air and raising extraneous arguments...
What needs supported? Kruger was brought in to be a pass rusher. He has never lined up exclusively as a DE in a 4-3 since hes been in the NFL. If you watched him this last year, as Id expect anyone on this board to, you'd know that he wasnt great standing up, now you want to move him to a position hes never played in the NFL and expect him to live up to his 8 mill a year tag? As for Sheard, look up his numbers, he has played both, but was awful against the run as a DE and he still has a career high of what? 7.5 sacks? Sure he didn't light the world on fire as a LB in his first year, but he wasnt such a liability against the run.Try actually supporting your position rather than just waving your hands in the air and raising extraneous arguments...
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1. RB....that is our biggest need, but that isn't to say that is who we draft first.
2. ILB....we have to upgrade
3. QB.....I place it 3rd because I am pretty sure that with Hoyer back, the hole isn't all that great.
4. Guard...we have to keep out rusher right up the middle and need to create some running lanes.
5. Corner....after Hayden, we have Screen who is OK, and then nobody....we need to get better at the position. Good corners impact defensive play and special teams play.
6. WR....I think Benji will be a great addition opposite Gordon. If anything, I would look for the sure handed receiver to replace Bess.
If I had to list the order I would draft them.....
1. QB
2. Corner
3. ILB
4. RB
5. Guard
6. WR
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