Rams fan talking draft
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I have a different take and am with a fair segment of this board that does not see a QB worth taking at #4 let alone trading up. Most of us want Watkins at #4.
As for our pick stockpile... Our FO told us last year that they really did not know what they had personnel-wise, so deferring picks until 2014 via trade made sense. As for TR I believe they were trying to get as much value as possible out of a failed experiment.
Then there's the Hoyer factor...
Now whether I and the folks who share my view are closer to where our FO is, is anybody's guess at this point.
Also having been in Texas for decades (mostly in Houston), I think I have a feel for that organization and share your view that they will stay at #1 and take a QB.
What I am curious about the Rams fans is how big is the camp that thinks Bradford is "the guy"?
I can answer the Bradford question. The prevailing belief of Rams fans is that the team should stick with him this year. It's totally make or break for him. The major issue Rams fans have with Bradford is his durability. Can he stay healthy for more than one year in a row? He has done that yet.
But there are extremist on both sides. Some love him to death and believe he is a special franchise QB, others wanted him cut 2 years ago.
There have been tons of excuses for Bradford. Many of them are valid. Revolving door of subpar WRs and a weak OL. He was drafted into probably the worst situation of any rookie starting QB in NFL history. That 2010 team was utterly void of talent, and the 2011 teams was a disaster of injuries of record proportions. Still, Bradford hasn't raised the level of play of the people around him. He's not worth the money they are paying him for sure; every Rams fan agrees with that. But it's possible that he could still be a very good QB if he can stay on the field. But as I said, if he goes down again this year, he's done.
I can answer the Bradford question. The prevailing belief of Rams fans is that the team should stick with him this year. It's totally make or break for him. The major issue Rams fans have with Bradford is his durability. Can he stay healthy for more than one year in a row? He has done that yet.
That's the major problem a lot of Browns fans have with drafting Manziel- especially trading up to get him. He's been dinged already in college, and his running style is RGIII reckless.
Houston may very well take Clowney, but if they don't I can see the Rams either taking him or trading with Atlanta for him. So I think Clowney is going #1 or #2.
So the first QB is going either #1 or #2. And the second QB is going to Jax at #3.
If the Browns stay at #4, they will very likely get the the third QB, or Watkins. I highly doubt you get Clowney at #4.
There are many Rams fans that want Watkins at #2, but the big argument is that he's not a physical freak. He's may measure in under 6'1" at the Combine so he's not in the AJ Green, Juio Jones class. The remaining Rams fans want either Matthews or Robinson.
Hard to say what the Browns FO will do at this point. (Unless Bridgewater is still on the board @ #4) Not inconceivable if they don't see anyone they like, we could be in a trade-down scenario. They will certainly entertain offers, especial if a future first is in the mix.
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I can answer the Bradford question. The prevailing belief of Rams fans is that the team should stick with him this year. It's totally make or break for him. The major issue Rams fans have with Bradford is his durability. Can he stay healthy for more than one year in a row? He has done that yet.
That's the major problem a lot of Browns fans have with drafting Manziel- especially trading up to get him. He's been dinged already in college, and his running style is RGIII reckless.
Houston may very well take Clowney, but if they don't I can see the Rams either taking him or trading with Atlanta for him. So I think Clowney is going #1 or #2.
So the first QB is going either #1 or #2. And the second QB is going to Jax at #3.
If the Browns stay at #4, they will very likely get the the third QB, or Watkins. I highly doubt you get Clowney at #4.
There are many Rams fans that want Watkins at #2, but the big argument is that he's not a physical freak. He's may measure in under 6'1" at the Combine so he's not in the AJ Green, Juio Jones class. The remaining Rams fans want either Matthews or Robinson.
Hard to say what the Browns FO will do at this point. (Unless Bridgewater is still on the board @ #4) Not inconceivable if they don't see anyone they like, we could be in a trade-down scenario. They will certainly entertain offers, especial if a future first is in the mix.
That's the major problem a lot of Browns fans have with drafting Manziel- especially trading up to get him. He's been dinged already in college, and his running style is RGIII reckless.
Hard to say what the Browns FO will do at this point. (Unless Bridgewater is still on the board @ #4) Not inconceivable if they don't see anyone they like, we could be in a trade-down scenario. They will certainly entertain offers, especial if a future first is in the mix.
What constitutes "a lot"? By my count, I see about four that are flat out against Manziel, regardless of trading.
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Thanks.
I totally agree with you that we don't know who is going 1st overall yet.
My thought on that is Houston won't trade down because they need a QB and even if they decided not to go with a QB with the first pick I don't think they would trade down and risk losing Clowney. Houston doesn't need an LT or a WR, so a trade down to get Matthews, Robinson or Watkins doesn't make sense. If they trade down it would be for a defensive player, and it doesn't seem likely that they would pass on Clowney to take Barr or Mack just to pick up extra picks. I don't believe Houston will trade with the Browns to let the Browns pick a QB. Houston could very well be stuck at #4 and miss out on the QB they want as well as miss out on Clowney. Of course, this is all predicated on the belief that Clowney will emerge as the clear best defensive player in the draft. This will clear itself up after the Combine, and I expect Clowney will emerge as the guy.
So regardless of whether Houston goes with a QB or Clowney they are staying at #1. If they go QB at #1, it's all a guess for months as to who it is. That's why we will all have to wait until draft day for any trades.
While Houston controls what QB goes first and to who, they can only control one of them and may pass on all of them. So the odds are very high that the QB the Browns want will be available to them if they trade up with the Rams.
One potential problem for the Browns if they stay put at #4 is that the Rams may trade with Minny, and Minny takes a QB at #2, then Jax takes a QB at #3.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
And hopefully this Rams fan is adding some new perspective to this topic. thanks again.
I'll be dumbfounded if the first three picks of the draft are all used on a QB. one of the best QB classes in recent memory (2012) didn't have 3 QBs selected in the top five, so I can't bring myself to believe that this class will outdo 2012 in that respect.
I'm not concerned in the least that one of the top 3 QBs will be available at 4, the only issue is whether or not the Browns FO will be willing to stay at 4 to select a QB who isn't their top prospect.
Some draft experts are saying that none of the QBs available this year are deserving of a top 5 pick, I disagree, but the Rams certainly don't have the same leverage they had in 2012.
I'll be dumbfounded if the first three picks of the draft are all used on a QB. one of the best QB classes in recent memory (2012) didn't have 3 QBs selected in the top five, so I can't bring myself to believe that this class will outdo 2012 in that respect.
I'm not concerned in the least that one of the top 3 QBs will be available at 4, the only issue is whether or not the Browns FO will be willing to stay at 4 to select a QB who isn't their top prospect.
Some draft experts are saying that none of the QBs available this year are deserving of a top 5 pick, I disagree, but the Rams certainly don't have the same leverage they had in 2012.
I could see it happening, though not a great possibility. My feeling is if we have a target, don't hope he is there. Just go ahead and do it. Live or die with that decision rather than allow other teams to dictate who you select.
That also makes me believe if we do trade, it will be for the #1 pick, and not the #2 pick. Houston has said they would like to drop as has St.Louis. That will bring some discount, especially since we sit at #4. Moving to #1 won't cost that much more then moving to #2. I think the only way we trade with the Rams is if we have Manziel and Bridgewater rated evenly and don't really care which guy we get.
We need to play that angle because #4 is a good trade down point for either team. Both will still be able to get a target player and pick something up in return. Our other 1st rounder will be the chip, but I wouldn't rule out us getting something else in return....maybe a 4th rounder. I don't see the market being such that will make it like it was for RGIII. I think it is more of a buyers market this year with the top two teams seeking to drop.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Thanks for the reply...
It seems that the starting QB is as controversial in St Louis as it is in any City without a Super Bowl winning QB... no shocker there...
Good point. Even worse in a City without a winning record QB. Heck, the Dolphins are said to be unhappy with Tannehill already.
Heck, the Dolphins are said to be unhappy with Tannehill already.
Based upon his lack of progress, I'd be concerned, too. I know Miami had personnel "issues", but we in Cleveland have learned that there are no excuses.
Brilliant trade...There are many Rams fans who have Fisher on the hot seat. They would dump him if the Rams don't win in his 3rd season.
Getting #2 was a gift from heaven. When they made that RG3 trade, many thought the Rams blew it.
As for Jeff... I love the guy, but understand the impatience. It's not just a lack of progress at St. Louis, it's also his TN resume where while relevant for a period, they only really contended one year.
I think they'll draft him even if they stay 3-4. That dude is more athletically gifted now than either of our OLB'ers. They may start off using him like we use Kruger, with his hands mostly in the dirt. I see him becoming a consummate OLB though the likes of Aldon Smith but with a nastier rush.
Could be, but standing up even a great athlete is a far from certain transition. Just ask Mario Williams... which means I guess you could ask Pettine.
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I'll be dumbfounded if the first three picks of the draft are all used on a QB. one of the best QB classes in recent memory (2012) didn't have 3 QBs selected in the top five, so I can't bring myself to believe that this class will outdo 2012 in that respect.
I'm not concerned in the least that one of the top 3 QBs will be available at 4, the only issue is whether or not the Browns FO will be willing to stay at 4 to select a QB who isn't their top prospect.
Some draft experts are saying that none of the QBs available this year are deserving of a top 5 pick, I disagree, but the Rams certainly don't have the same leverage they had in 2012.
I could see it happening, though not a great possibility. My feeling is if we have a target, don't hope he is there. Just go ahead and do it. Live or die with that decision rather than allow other teams to dictate who you select.
That also makes me believe if we do trade, it will be for the #1 pick, and not the #2 pick. Houston has said they would like to drop as has St.Louis. That will bring some discount, especially since we sit at #4. Moving to #1 won't cost that much more then moving to #2. I think the only way we trade with the Rams is if we have Manziel and Bridgewater rated evenly and don't really care which guy we get.
We need to play that angle because #4 is a good trade down point for either team. Both will still be able to get a target player and pick something up in return. Our other 1st rounder will be the chip, but I wouldn't rule out us getting something else in return....maybe a 4th rounder. I don't see the market being such that will make it like it was for RGIII. I think it is more of a buyers market this year with the top two teams seeking to drop.
I could see (3 QBs in the first 3 picks) happening, though not a great possibility.
Ditto...
The draft can have elements of a lemming mentality to it. Once a run on a position starts, it continues for a while. And when teams start trading into positions to continue the run "it's on"... OT seems to be a favorite Round 1 run position. I think that the rookie pay structure makes it seem even more likely that a QB run is in the offing.
That said runs are more common in what are now the Day 2 rounds (there's almost always a CB run at some point), but it has and can happen on Day 1.
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I'll be pissed if we trade any of our first 5 picks. We have 5 of the first 83 picks, we should be able to get quality players without selling the farm to move up.
I'll be pissed if we trade any of our first 5 picks. We have 5 of the first 83 picks, we should be able to get quality players without selling the farm to move up.
I'm with you there Bob. I'd bet that at least one of the top for quarterbacks will still be there at 26. Probably somebody in the second or third round with as much potential, and a better shot at success with three or four ass kicking pics on the team before him. I can see reasons to take any of the four top quarterbacks, possibly even 5. Also the risk of taking any of them. Of course whoever they pick will be my guy, but only after Brian Hoyer proves he can't.
Ram guy, you drafted Sam Bradford pretty high so it's going to be tough to write him off. That's the problem with a high pick quarterback. If we got somebody in the third round we wouldn't freak out starting somebody else.
WSS
WSS
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Just to summarize...
The problem for the Rams in this draft is that there is no once in a decade guy at a position of need for them, only Clowney. Plus, there are 2 OTs and a WR that really good but not at the Orlando Pace or Megatron level.
Thing is, SOMEBODY has to go #1 overall. It appears that it will be one of 4 guys. Those 3 QBs or Clowney. I mean, even if Houston trades down like this guy is talking about, SOME TEAM has to take SOMEBODY. And I don't believe it will be anybody but one of those 4 guys. So it doesn't matter to us, really who has the pick. We just scratch a QB or Clowney off the board.
Does anyone really believe the Rams aren't trading down? With 3 of those 4 potential #1 picks still on the board, some team will want one of them. Cleveland, Minny, Atlanta, and Oakland are good candidates for a trade. I gotta believe the Rams are trading with one of them.
Then Jax will take either a QB or Clowney.
So after the first 3 picks, I think 2 QBs and Clowney will be off the board.
The only question is whether Watkins or one of the OTs goes in the top 3. And the way I see it, the only way that happens is if they go in the #2 spot to the Rams, which I doubt.
So if the Rams trade out of #2 as many expect, and they don't trade with Cleveland, then the Browns will be very likely down to the last of the 3 top QBs to pick. That could be a big problem for them if they determine there is a guy they really want ahead of the others. That's the way I see now anyway. -
Once the combine etc is done I am sure the FO will know which QB they want and trade up for him. It's a young roster I just don't see them drafting 10 more rookies.
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Hell I'd be happy to trade down from the number 4 pic if we could find a sucker that fell in love with one of these top five guys...
WSS
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Once the combine etc is done I am sure the FO will know which QB they want and trade up for him. It's a young roster I just don't see them drafting 10 more rookies.
Once the combine etc is done I am sure the FO will know which QB they want and trade up for him. It's a young roster I just don't see them drafting 10 more rookies.
By NO means will we know which QB the Browns want after the combine. We won't know that until the moment they pick him. NFL teams often guard their thoughts on who they want to draft as if they were state secrets on the order of the Enigma Machine.
So, no, we may never have a clue until the deed is done.
And that is the way it should be if the Browns are smart. And Banner is smart that way.
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I don't think he meant WE would know. I took it that the FO would know who hey want to target.
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Yeah I said the FO will know, we won't have a clue!
Yeah I said the FO will know, we won't have a clue!
OK, well, maybe they will know. By some reports their mind if already made up. (I doubt that).
Hell, it is possible they may not know themselves until they are on the board.
So many contingencies.
Remember how panicked the Browns were (Bill Belichick) when Kyle Brady, the man they wanted was plucked right before they picked? They went into panic mode.
And correct me if I am wrong.....wasn't Lombardi involved in that situation?
I suspect he has learned not to go into panic mode....(or maybe he has learned nothing).
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I don't think they know who they want yet at all, there are a few months of evaluations to come.
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Yeah I said the FO will know, we won't have a clue!
OK, well, maybe they will know. By some reports their mind if already made up. (I doubt that).
Hell, it is possible they may not know themselves until they are on the board.
So many contingencies.
Remember how panicked the Browns were (Bill Belichick) when Kyle Brady, the man they wanted was plucked right before they picked? They went into panic mode.
And correct me if I am wrong.....wasn't Lombardi involved in that situation?
I suspect he has learned not to go into panic mode....(or maybe he has learned nothing).
OK, well, maybe they will know. By some reports their mind if already made up. (I doubt that).
Hell, it is possible they may not know themselves until they are on the board.
So many contingencies.
Remember how panicked the Browns were (Bill Belichick) when Kyle Brady, the man they wanted was plucked right before they picked? They went into panic mode.
And correct me if I am wrong.....wasn't Lombardi involved in that situation?
I suspect he has learned not to go into panic mode....(or maybe he has learned nothing).
If they don't know until they are on the board, then you need a new front office.
Most of the FO's know before the Combine who they want and just use the Combine to confirm medical and psycho stuff. The tape doesn't change between now and May 8th.
I think if Houston takes a QB at #1, that will send a bit of a shock wave to the other teams near the top of the draft looking for a QB. Jax, Minny, Oak, and Cleveland will get more active on the phones.
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OK, well, maybe they will know. By some reports their mind if already made up. (I doubt that).
Hell, it is possible they may not know themselves until they are on the board.
So many contingencies.
Remember how panicked the Browns were (Bill Belichick) when Kyle Brady, the man they wanted was plucked right before they picked? They went into panic mode.
And correct me if I am wrong.....wasn't Lombardi involved in that situation?
I suspect he has learned not to go into panic mode....(or maybe he has learned nothing).
If they don't know until they are on the board, then you need a new front office.
Most of the FO's know before the Combine who they want and just use the Combine to confirm medical and psycho stuff. The tape doesn't change between now and May 8th.
I think if Houston takes a QB at #1, that will send a bit of a shock wave to the other teams near the top of the draft looking for a QB. Jax, Minny, Oak, and Cleveland will get more active on the phones.
If they don't know until they are on the board, then you need a new front office.
Let's put it this way: they may know who they want....say they really want JM....but lets say he is taken ahead of them the Texans or Jags. Well, they are not going to get what they want, are they. They will then have to fall to Plan B. That is what I mean by "they won't know". They don't know if the guy they really really want is going to be there.
Most of the FO's know before the Combine who they want and just use the Combine to confirm medical and psycho stuff. The tape doesn't change between now and May 8th.
I think if Houston takes a QB at #1, that will send a bit of a shock wave to the other teams near the top of the draft looking for a QB. Jax, Minny, Oak, and Cleveland will get more active on the phones.
I am not that intimately familiar with how an NFL FO works to say that they know who they want before the combine. I seriously doubt that for most teams.
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Once the combine etc is done I am sure the FO will know which QB they want and trade up for him. It's a young roster I just don't see them drafting 10 more rookies.
Once the combine etc is done I am sure the FO will know which QB they want and trade up for him. It's a young roster I just don't see them drafting 10 more rookies.
If you see talent in the draft that's better than what you have on the roster- you keep the picks. IMHO, the only way the Browns are trading up is if they're rock solid certain the qb they're trading up for is a bona fide franchise guy. Personally, I hope the Browns keep the at least the first four picks. You want to unload picks, do what the FO did last year- trade a third into a future second, and fourth into a third...
It's extremely unlikely that qbs will go 1-2-3 in this draft, no Luck or RGIII by all accounts, So if you have them rated evenly, you stand pat @ #4. The #1 crime in drafting is to fall too much in love with a particular player. I give you Mad Dog in a Meat Market Mega-Bust Mike Junkin as exhibit A. Rule #2 is don't panic if the guy you want gets taken off the board before you draft- say hi to Clifford Charlton. LOL, as Rams fan pointed out- but didn't elaborate on, if Atlanta trades up to #2, it sure won't be to take a qb- they're taking Clowney.
And I absolutely disagree that a team knows "for sure" who they're taking before the combine. It would be criminally negligent- at least regarding your first round pick(s)- if you didn't interview them at length, and stage multiple workouts..
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If they don't know until they are on the board, then you need a new front office.
Let's put it this way: they may know who they want....say they really want JM....but lets say he is taken ahead of them the Texans or Jags. Well, they are not going to get what they want, are they. They will then have to fall to Plan B. That is what I mean by "they won't know". They don't know if the guy they really really want is going to be there.
Most of the FO's know before the Combine who they want and just use the Combine to confirm medical and psycho stuff. The tape doesn't change between now and May 8th.
I think if Houston takes a QB at #1, that will send a bit of a shock wave to the other teams near the top of the draft looking for a QB. Jax, Minny, Oak, and Cleveland will get more active on the phones.
I am not that intimately familiar with how an NFL FO works to say that they know who they want before the combine. I seriously doubt that for most teams.
Ah. I got what you were saying now.
Well, it kind of goes with my point. Assuming the Browns know who they want on May 7th, they have a few options.
1. They can try to trade up with Houston to ensure getting him. This is the most costly method but sure fire, except if Houston prefers to take who they want at #1. I think the odds are pretty good that the guy Cleveland wants is not the same guy the Texans want, plus Clowney is in the mix. So it's best to wait until #2, I think.
2. Waiting until the Rams are on the clock makes it interesting for the Browns. If the Texans took the Browns guy, then the Browns may just wait it out until #4 or they may have a close 2nd guy that they like almost as much. I think the Browns would make the trade with the Rams if they have a close 2nd guy.
3. If the Browns guy is taken by Houston, then the Brown may just sit tight at #4. They could do this even if their guy hasn't been taken by Houston, but will they risk losing him to either another team that trades with the Rams, like Minny, or letting Jax take him at #3?
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Once the combine etc is done I am sure the FO will know which QB they want and trade up for him. It's a young roster I just don't see them drafting 10 more rookies.
If you see talent in the draft that's better than what you have on the roster- you keep the picks. IMHO, the only way the Browns are trading up is if they're rock solid certain the qb they're trading up for is a bona fide franchise guy. Personally, I hope the Browns keep the at least the first four picks. You want to unload picks, do what the FO did last year- trade a third into a future second, and fourth into a third...
It's extremely unlikely that qbs will go 1-2-3 in this draft, no Luck or RGIII by all accounts, So if you have them rated evenly, you stand pat @ #4. The #1 crime in drafting is to fall too much in love with a particular player. I give you Mad Dog in a Meat Market Mega-Bust Mike Junkin as exhibit A. Rule #2 is don't panic if the guy you want gets taken off the board before you draft- say hi to Clifford Charlton. LOL, as Rams fan pointed out- but didn't elaborate on, if Atlanta trades up to #2, it sure won't be to take a qb- they're taking Clowney.
And I absolutely disagree that a team knows "for sure" who they're taking before the combine. It would be criminally negligent- at least regarding your first round pick(s)- if you didn't interview them at length, and stage multiple workouts..
If you see talent in the draft that's better than what you have on the roster- you keep the picks. IMHO, the only way the Browns are trading up is if they're rock solid certain the qb they're trading up for is a bona fide franchise guy. Personally, I hope the Browns keep the at least the first four picks. You want to unload picks, do what the FO did last year- trade a third into a future second, and fourth into a third...
It's extremely unlikely that qbs will go 1-2-3 in this draft, no Luck or RGIII by all accounts, So if you have them rated evenly, you stand pat @ #4. The #1 crime in drafting is to fall too much in love with a particular player. I give you Mad Dog in a Meat Market Mega-Bust Mike Junkin as exhibit A. Rule #2 is don't panic if the guy you want gets taken off the board before you draft- say hi to Clifford Charlton. LOL, as Rams fan pointed out- but didn't elaborate on, if Atlanta trades up to #2, it sure won't be to take a qb- they're taking Clowney.
So what if Houston's O'Brien falls in love with Bortles and they take him at #1, for example.
And the Browns believe Bridgewater is the franchise guy they want.
Do they trade up with the Rams or do they risk Minny or Oak trading up with the Rams to take him or Jax taking him at #3?
That's the big question.
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If you see talent in the draft that's better than what you have on the roster- you keep the picks. IMHO, the only way the Browns are trading up is if they're rock solid certain the qb they're trading up for is a bona fide franchise guy. Personally, I hope the Browns keep the at least the first four picks. You want to unload picks, do what the FO did last year- trade a third into a future second, and fourth into a third...
It's extremely unlikely that qbs will go 1-2-3 in this draft, no Luck or RGIII by all accounts, So if you have them rated evenly, you stand pat @ #4. The #1 crime in drafting is to fall too much in love with a particular player. I give you Mad Dog in a Meat Market Mega-Bust Mike Junkin as exhibit A. Rule #2 is don't panic if the guy you want gets taken off the board before you draft- say hi to Clifford Charlton. LOL, as Rams fan pointed out- but didn't elaborate on, if Atlanta trades up to #2, it sure won't be to take a qb- they're taking Clowney.
So what if Houston's O'Brien falls in love with Bortles and they take him at #1, for example.
And the Browns believe Bridgewater is the franchise guy they want.
Do they trade up with the Rams or do they risk Minny or Oak trading up with the Rams to take him or Jax taking him at #3?
That's the big question.
So what if Houston's O'Brien falls in love with Bortles and they take him at #1, for example.
And the Browns believe Bridgewater is the franchise guy they want.
Do they trade up with the Rams or do they risk Minny or Oak trading up with the Rams to take him or Jax taking him at #3?
That's the big question.
Exactly what I said.... If Bridgewater is there @ #2, and they're certain, they may well make the trade. Ditto Manziel, though personally I'm the #1 member of the anti- Johnny Football camp. & personally, I don't offer anything more than our second round pick, or future pick(s) and not a first either.BTW, the Jags are in even better position, and will need to offer less, moving up just one spot to take a qb. That's contingent on how greedy the Rams want to get dropping down farther to get more picks- but risk out on a top player. IMO you have the three qbs, Clowney and Watkins. None are likely to be there if you trade with Atlanta.
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