Would you want him if we had to trade a high pic?
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Detroit Lions Attempting to Trade Ndamukong Suh? If They Are, It's Smart
By Mike Freeman, NFL National Lead Writer
Apr 25, 2014
Getty Images26.7KReads135CommentsThe first thing you must understand about Detroit andNdamukong Suh is that the Lions have indeed had conversations with other teams about trading Suh. This is a fact. What is also true: It's been just talk and not even serious talk. Just a feeling-out of other teams to see what they would be willing to give up for Suh.
This means, quite simply, the Lions are covering their asses, just in case the worst happens. They are gauging interest, seeing what they might be able to get in terms of draft picks, while also not even coming close to pulling any trigger on a trade.
Several team officials believe that, for now, the Lions are just exploring what they could get for Suh in case their contract talks with him completely disintegrate.
"What the Lions are doing is standard operating procedure," one team executive said. "Just in case they don't think they can sign him, they're preparing for worst case. It's smart."
In other words, the Lions are doing their due diligence. They would be foolish not to.
And if they found some deal that actually made sense, they'd be smart to take it. Because Suh is too flammable on the field, and not enough of a leader off it, to be worth that kind of money.
That kind of cash—he currently takes up $22 million in cap space and is looking for a mega-contract—is what you pay quarterbacks. Not interior defensive linemen who can't maintain their self-control.
He becomes a free agent next season. The Lions should let him walk if they can't trade or pay him.
There are two important facts that must be stressed here. First, team officials that have spoken with the Lions believe strongly that the Lions and Suh will work out some sort of arrangement and that Suh will stay in Detroit.
Second, teams thinking of trading for Suh love his ability but do not trust him. At all. In fact, these officials explain, one of the reasons that the Lions might not end up trading Suh is that other teams are nervous about handing him a great deal of cash.
"Every team in football would love to have (Suh)," said one team official, "but his behavior on the field still makes teams nervous. There's a feeling that he has no self-control."
This is the Suh conundrum. The Lions don't want to pay him a massive amount of money because they aren't certain he's worth it. Teams thinking of trading for Suh feel the same.
I've been a critic of Suh in the past. He's a remarkable talent, a delicious combination of ferocity and skill, but he is also a fan of leg kicks, cheap shots and overall dirtiness. There is a feeling among league people that Suh, who has been fined more than $200,000 for various illegalities, cannot be controlled and doesn't understand the optics of his acts. Suh is, easily, the dirtiest player in football.
Most of all, the concern is that Suh isn't a winner.
The latest example of this is Suh not showing up for offseason workouts. The workouts are voluntary, but there isn't a great leader or winner in football that doesn't show up to them. Lions fans, quite the sensitive bunch, believe the criticism of Suh for not appearing at the workouts is a media invention. It's not.
Tom Brady attends voluntary workouts. Aaron Rodgers attends voluntary workouts. So does Peyton Manning. In fact, Manning never stops thinking about football. Neither did Jerry Rice, or most of the other legends and greats.
Suh is a captain beginning with a new coaching staff. This would have been the perfect time to make a positive impression on his new bosses. Instead, he decided to stay home. It's irrelevant that he could still show up to minicamp or training camp in shape. It's more about leadership. He's a captain, and captains are usually the men who set the examples.
Let's put it this way: Suh is in the same company as Cowboys backup quarterback Kyle Orton, who is also not attending voluntary workouts.
It's the extremists in football that win. The men who push themselves.The ones that lead. I know some stars have in the past not attended voluntary workouts, but the percentage that do is almost 100 percent. And don't tell me Rodgers attends solely because of a workout bonus. He'd be there regardless.
Players should be able to have time away from football once the season ends, and they do. Plenty. What the workouts do is tighten the bond between teammates. There are coaches in the NFL that feel the offseason workouts are one of the most important aspects of building team chemistry.
Suh not attending them is a statement about Suh. He's telling the Lions coaches, "Who cares if you're new? Suh does what Suh does."
Jim Caldwell basically responded that he'd like Suh at the workouts but understands why he isn't. Other teammates have said it's not a big deal. They are doing the last thing they should with Suh. They are placating him.
No one should be surprised if Suh is traded, but it continues to look like (for the moment) Suh and the Lions will work out some sort of deal. For the moment, that's how it looks.
Which is unfortunate for the Lions.
Mike Freeman covers the NFL for Bleacher Report
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Not on the money he's looking for, and not for a high draft pick which could be used to address actual areas of weaknesses. We all know that the DL is one of the few (only) areas where we have a strong set of starters and very capable backups.
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i'm happy with our DL. sure he's a beast but we have other worries bigger than adding and replacing a DL who will want to become the highest paid DL in history.
also say goodbye to any blue chip prospect you might have hoped to drafting high in the first round.
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The stoolers would probably love to have him
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No.
He's one of the best defensive linemen to ever play the game His impact is measured in both what he does as well as what he makes opposing offensive lines do. He will certainly make it to the HOF.
But he gets stupid penalties, he can be a distraction, he is not a leader and he wants entirely too much money. Those factors alone should be enough to rule him out. Add to that the fact that he would cost multiple high draft picks and this is a no brainer.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Do we really need him? No. Is he a great player. yes.
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No.
He's one of the best defensive linemen to ever play the game His impact is measured in both what he does as well as what he makes opposing offensive lines do. He will certainly make it to the HOF.
But he gets stupid penalties, he can be a distraction, he is not a leader and he wants entirely too much money. Those factors alone should be enough to rule him out. Add to that the fact that he would cost multiple high draft picks and this is a no brainer.
No.
He's one of the best defensive linemen to ever play the game His impact is measured in both what he does as well as what he makes opposing offensive lines do. He will certainly make it to the HOF.
But he gets stupid penalties, he can be a distraction, he is not a leader and he wants entirely too much money. Those factors alone should be enough to rule him out. Add to that the fact that he would cost multiple high draft picks and this is a no brainer.
^+1. Not at multiple picks, and not at paying him a record contract for DL. Is he that much better than Taylor? 22 million? That's Peyton Manning money. Those cap $$$ will be better spent reupping Gordon, Haden, and Cameron.
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Fine, I'll give them a third rounder.
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NOPE!!!!
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I ain't into trading pics with dudes.
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I would trade a 6th and a 7th round pick to keep him off my team.
He's a dirtbag. No.
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If we can get him for swapping 1st and a 3rd or 4th I would be happy. We could have him this year, then franchise him the next year. To me that's worth it.
Detroit may actually be interested in that deal too. They get to move up and get their guy in Watkins, and get to unload a big contract. Win-win
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If we can get him for swapping 1st and a 3rd or 4th I would be happy. We could have him this year, then franchise him the next year. To me that's worth it.
Detroit may actually be interested in that deal too. They get to move up and get their guy in Watkins, and get to unload a big contract. Win-win
They get to move up and get their guy in Watkins, and get to unload a big contract. Win-win
unloading that big contract to us is not a win. especially when he wants to redo his contract and be the highest paid DL in the history of the game.
still a win?
also say goodby to watkins or JF or whoever you hoped to get @4 this year.
fuck that.
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We would have to pay him 12mil next year and 9.6 mil the following year if we franchise him. Thats a fair price for an elite lineman.
There is talent all throughout this draft, I won't be butt hurt if we miss out on either of those two. I personally wouldn't touch Manziel until the 3rd round anyways.
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He is a scumbag. I'll pass
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I'd take that offer from the Lions in a heartbeat. The 10th would still allow the team to grab a quality player. Also this would give the Browns options if the decide to move on from Phil Taylor
I'd take that offer from the Lions in a heartbeat. The 10th would still allow the team to grab a quality player. Also this would give the Browns options if the decide to move on from Phil Taylor
a LINE learns to play together through experience.
get rid of phil taylor, flush all that cohesiveness down the toilet, especially with a douche like suh in your locker room.
fucking stoopid.
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I'd take that offer from the Lions in a heartbeat. The 10th would still allow the team to grab a quality player. Also this would give the Browns options if the decide to move on from Phil Taylor
a LINE learns to play together through experience.
get rid of phil taylor, flush all that cohesiveness down the toilet, especially with a douche like suh in your locker room.
fucking stoopid.
a LINE learns to play together through experience.
get rid of phil taylor, flush all that cohesiveness down the toilet, especially with a douche like suh in your locker room.
fucking stoopid.
If was my key word there. Unless Taylor blows up this year, he isn't going to command a massive contract. The Browns could extend both Suh and Taylor while either trading or letting Rubin walk. Also Kruger's and Bryant's deals are cap friendly next off-season in case the Browns decide to move on (I say this about Kruger more so than Bryant).
The Browns are in excellent cap shape to get Cameron, Gordon, and Haden extended with minimal subtractions. This may be the only positive of not having a Franchise QB eating up a fifth or a sixth of the entire cap.
Also look at this mock if we are able to get Suh... This is ideally what I would do... Hypothetical yet value is based in reality
*Trade 4th Overall and 83rd, and a 2015 5th to Detroit Lions for Ndamukong Suh and the 10th
Why for the Browns – they could grab a difference maker at 10 and gain Suh in the process. Suh would step in and replace Ahtiba Rubin in the starting lineup (see more on this later), immediately upgrading the defense while bringing a nasty demeanor. His demeanor is something I love in small doses. Suh places hits that change the tone of the game. He and Taylor would strike fear in ball carriers and quarterbacks.
Why for the Lions – the Lions would be able to grab Sammy Watkins to pair with Johnson and Tate. This offense immediately would be the most explosive in the NFL, which the Lions seem to place an emphasis on. Also they rid themselves of an off the field headache for a new coach and a contract decision that they probably do not want to make.
Trade Value breakdown –This value was based upon what the Vikings received for Percy Harvin last year with a little extra considering Suh is a more dominant player. The jump from 10th to 4th is valued at an early 2nd, however for draft day trades it would probably be the equivalent of “next-year’s first” that so commonly gets included. Suh would essentially become that “next-year’s first”
10) Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M
- I think all QB’s will drop in the Draft…. Bortles will probably be snatched up by either the Texans (only if they trade down with ATL) or the Vikings. After this the Browns should draft Manziel to ensure them of obtaining a (relatively) top tier QB. Manziel brings excitement and the ability to make something out of nothing. I love his will to win; when he throws a touchdown strike for the go ahead, Manziel is ecstatic.
26) Kyle Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech
- Fuller would step in and provide size, athelicism, and upside to the CB2 spot. This would move Skrine inside where I believe he would flourish.
35) Kelvin Benjamin, WR, Florida State
- Benjamin would provide Manziel a similar size/speed target that he had in Evans. When the play breaks down the offense needs a safety net for jump ball situations in which Benjamin would provide. He would be an excellent addition for short slants as well.
71) Dakota Dozier, OG, Furman
- Guard has to be addressed. In advanced statistics the line graded out fairly well, but anyone who watched the games knew that RG was an area of concern. Dozier will step in and immediatley become a starter over Gilkey or McQuistan. Dozier is rising so if he is unavailable another option would be David Yankey, who is now considered a late 2nd/early 3rd prospect himself.
106) Jordan Zumwalt, ILB, UCLA
- Zumwalt has experience playing ILB in the 3-4 and he also has the ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He would be an excellent addition to a true Hybrid defense. I watch a lot of Pac-12 football, and this guy jumps off the screen almost as much as Kiko Alonso did. Probably not the athlete that Alonso is, however, he is always around the ball.
*Trade Ahtyba Rubin and 127th to Green Bay for 121st and 161st picks.
Why for the Browns – Taking Rubin off the books would be smart since they brought in an expensive piece in Suh. Rubin’s talent and production warrants more than what is essentially a late 5th rounder, however the team would benefit by taking his salary off the books.
Why for the Packers - Green Bay likes to build through the draft, however, to grab a high production, rotational piece for a 5th would be a steal. Rubin would provide them insurance for the future (with a short extension) if Raji does not improve. For the Packers, adding Rubin, Peppers, and some high draft picks into their defense would all them to compete for a Super Bowl right away.
121) Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, OT/OG, McGill
- The Browns need some insurance behind Thomas, Greco, and Schwartz. Duvernay-Tardif checks off all the boxes as a developmental offensive lineman. Players like Gilkey, McQuistan, and Fragel are not starting material. Earlier pick Dozier would presumably step in at RG, allowing Duvernay-Tardif to focus on learning the position in hopes to take over Greco’s or Schwartz’s spot next year. Duvernay-Tardif is one of my favorite players in this whole draft.
*Trade 161st (GB) and 180th to Baltimore for 134th
Why for the Browns – Allows them to grab another higher rated player who has a higher liklihood of making the final roster.
Why for the Ravens – Allows them to gain additional draft picks which they are lacking this year (somewhat alleviated by comp picks)
134) DeAnthony Thomas, RB/WR, Oregon
- Thomas would immediately become the Kick Returner for the team, providing the ability to score anytime he touches the ball. On offense they could use him as a back out of the shotgun formation and give him two or three designed plays a game. Looking at Thomas’ stats, it’s ridiculous that his stock isn’t higher. I understand that he is undersized, however, he scores touchdowns at an unbelievable rate in multiple different ways. Thomas would be a good 3rd RB and could become a developmental slot receiver.
145) Marqueston Huff, FS, Wyoming
- Huff has great athelicism and decent size. He has experience playing all over the defensive backfield and would be an excellent depth choice. He would contribute immediately on special teams.
218) Connor Shaw, QB, South Carolina
- Developmental QB that could become a QB2 at some point, especially in a system based towards Manziel. The Browns seem to like him based upon pre-draft visits.
QB: Manziel, Hoyer, Shaw
RB: Tate, Ogbonnaya, Thomas, Baker
FB: Pressley, Gray
WR: Gordon, K. Benjamin, Hawkins, Little, T. Benjamin
TE: Cameron, Dray, Barnidge, Gray
LT: Thomas, Fragel
LG: Greco, Duvernay-Tardif
Mack, GrecoRG, Dozier, Gilkey
RT: Schwartz, McQuistan
RE – Bryant, Bryant
NT – Taylor, Hughes
LE – Suh, Winn
ROLB – Sheard, Mingo
ILB – Dansby, Robertson, Zumwalt
LOLB – Kruger, Groves
CB – Haden, Fuller, Skrine, McFadden, Trufant
FS – Gipson, Huff
SS – Whitner, Slaughter
KR: Thomas
PR: T. Benjamin
K: Cundiff
P: Lanning
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