Inside: U.S. Soccer's March to Brazil
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Your link was for "The World's Most Beautiful College Campuses" lol.
Look, the LAC vs an actual university thing can be debated. You can look at these LACs that are good at a handful of things and claim they're better than Michigan. They're two very different types of schools. Some kids don't want to go to a big school, I get that, their preference. Your claim of "far superior" is ridiculous though. How can it be "far superior" if it doesn't offer the breadth of courses Michigan has. It doesn't have the sane resources. It doesn't Gabe the same alumni base or recruiting prowess. It isn't as highly ranked and multiple fields, not just certain degrees. Kids have their preferences, got it. But "far superior"? You're living in a fantasy land.
Multiple publications rank engineering schools (along with schools in general). I posted many if these rankings in the last thread we had this argument and the numbers were pretty damn conclusive. Arguing that Akron has a better engineering program than Michigan is insane. That's like arguing the Jags are the best team in the NFL. Even Jags fans won't agreed with you.
I'm from Ohio. My ratings aren't Michigan centric. My ratings are common sense centric. They're rankings by people in academia and company recruiting centric. They're ranking services centric. They're people that know what they're talking about centric.
I'll tell you this about my job offer. I got it in the fall semester. I didn't co-op or intern at that company but it was my top choice for full time employment. I had about 15 on campus interviews after our engineering career fair (~300 companies). I turned down offers with higher salaries and signing bonuses for this job as well. If I want to chase money, I would have applied to different types of jobs.
I'd be willing to bet, on average, engineering students coming out of michigan have a higher employment rate, "better" and higher paying jobs, and a larger selection of companies and offers to chose from when compared to Akron. Of course, I'm sure there are exceptions. It sounds like your Son's friend found a great job. That's awesome for him.
Your link was for "The World's Most Beautiful College Campuses" lol.
Look, the LAC vs an actual university thing can be debated. You can look at these LACs that are good at a handful of things and claim they're better than Michigan. They're two very different types of schools. Some kids don't want to go to a big school, I get that, their preference. Your claim of "far superior" is ridiculous though. How can it be "far superior" if it doesn't offer the breadth of courses Michigan has. It doesn't have the sane resources. It doesn't Gabe the same alumni base or recruiting prowess. It isn't as highly ranked and multiple fields, not just certain degrees. Kids have their preferences, got it. But "far superior"? You're living in a fantasy land.
They provide a far superior quality education....you know, the thing you are supposed to at school...learn. And I disagree about the breadth of courses. Within the particular fields of study that they engage in, the liberal arts college provides a full curriculum.
As for alumi bases, these small schools hold their own.
I mean, for a 1600 student school Kenyon has had the following"
A. a US President, Rutherford B. Hayes
B. a Prime Minister of Sweden, Olaf Palme
C. a US Secretary of Defense, Edwin Stanton (who said upon Lincoln's death "now he belongs to the ages"
D. A US Supreme Court Chief Justice: Rehnquist
E. Two other US Supreme Court Justices
F. A US Poet Laureate: Robert Lowell
G. A Pulitzer Prize winning Poet: James Wright
H. A Printz Award winner: John Green
I. The Author or Ragtime and others: E.L Doctorow (Ragtime movie was the last by James Cagney)
J. The Editor of Playboy: Robert McCauley
K. The Editor in Chief of Bloomberg News: Matthew Winkler (Michael Bloomberg was the speaker at my son's graduation)
L. Oscar winning Actor: Paul Newman
M. Oscar winning director: Adam Davidson
N. Emmy winning actress: Allison Janney
O. Comedian Jonathan Winters
P. Actor/Director Josh Radnor (How I met your Mother....and the movie "Liberal Arts" no less)
Q. Peace Corps Director: Kevin O'Donnell (portrayed in movie by Kevin Costner)
R. The creator of the Birth Control Pill: Carl Djerassi
S. The creator of the Typhus vaccine: Rolla Dyer
T. The designer of Celebration Village (for Disney), and archtect for the Inventors Hall of Fame among many others: Graham Gund
U. The owner at one time of the Chicago White Sox and Cleveland Indians: Bill Veeck
V. Final Four coach Shaka Smart
W. Creator of Calvin and Hobbes Bill Watterson
X. Creator of Zits, Jim Borgman
Y. Kris Osborn, CNN Anchor
Z. Constantine Partrides....of whom the Patrides Fellowship and the Patrides Professorship of Literature are named for at....the University of Michigan
So, I wouldn't worry about Kenyon's alumni base or resources.
(As for my daughter's school....the kids from the Walton family attended there, and they are bloated with Walmart money.
And the chief architect for the Disney Corp. also attended there...Trinity in SA Texas....and she happens to be the mother of one of my son's roomate...at Kenyon.
Multiple publications rank engineering schools (along with schools in general). I posted many if these rankings in the last thread we had this argument and the numbers were pretty damn conclusive.
I don't remember them. Prove it.
Arguing that Akron has a better engineering program than Michigan is insane. That's like arguing the Jags are the best team in the NFL. Even Jags fans won't agreed with you.
OK.....Akron may not be the Patriots or Seahawks....but by your own point they are in the same league.
I'm from Ohio. My ratings aren't Michigan centric. My ratings are common sense centric. They're rankings by people in academia and company recruiting centric. They're ranking services centric. They're people that know what they're talking about centric.
FYI, ranking services, while interesting and occasionally useful...don't alway know what they are talking about and are often biased. E.g. One of the ranking services is also the publisher of "Who's Who in America" . FYI, anyone can get into Who's Who in America if they pay the price to get in there. One of that services major criteria in ranking its schools is by determining how many alumni have paid to be in Who's Who. So, a lot of it can be absolutely bullshit.
I'll tell you this about my job offer. I got it in the fall semester. I didn't co-op or intern at that company but it was my top choice for full time employment. I had about 15 on campus interviews after our engineering career fair (~300 companies). I turned down offers with higher salaries and signing bonuses for this job as well. If I want to chase money, I would have applied to different types of jobs.
I'd be willing to bet, on average, engineering students coming out of michigan have a higher employment rate, "better" and higher paying jobs, and a larger selection of companies and offers to chose from when compared to Akron. Of course, I'm sure there are exceptions. It sounds like your Son's friend found a great job. That's awesome for him.
I know he has a good job. I don't remember where.
I am sure you did fine too. After all, this one thing is true: engineers are generally in higher demand than people that graduate with a liberal art's degree. My son's molecular biology degree got him a good research job with a school for the time being. (until he goes to grad school). His roommate with the history degree is still looking.
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Interesting but dated info that I found about this person:
Ms. XXXX is an accomplished and versatile architectural designer and project manager, whose current work includes the Martha's Vineyard Historical Society new History and Cultural Museum in Edgartown, Massachusetts; the Marion D. Campbell Center for the Performing Arts at the Groton School in Groton, Massachusetts; the Cleveland Botanical Garden Glasshouse project in Cleveland, Ohio; and the award winning National Association of Realtors Headquarters building in Washington, D.C.
xxxx has also managed the design of Disney,s Coronado Springs Resort and Convention Center in Orlando, Florida; the Cheekwood Learning Center and Museum in Nashville, Tennessee; the International Retail & Manufacturers, Showcase for EuroDisney in Paris, France; the Camp Creek Community, Fort Walton Beach, Florida; the Stowe Mountain Resort in Stowe, Vermont ; Disney,s Inn at Celebration in Celebration, Florida; the Visual Arts Center at Davidson College in Davidson, North Carolina; and the new Fine Arts Center for St. John,s School in Houston, Texas.
xxxx is a registered architect in the State of Maryland and a member of both the American Institute of Architects and the Boston Society of Architects.She received a Bachelor of Arts from Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas and a Master of Architecture from the University of Minnesota.Laura joined Graham Gund Architects in 1987.
Interesting in that she got her BA where my daughter goes. Got her Masters at Minn. where my son now works. And her son and mine were roommates at Kenyon, she worked for Graham Gund ...who also attended Kenyon. (Gund is related to the Gund Brothers who used to own the Cavaliers).
What this doesn't show is that she has now been hired as Disney's top architect permanently.
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That is a pretty interesting work history. Designing some of those things would have been cool. I'd rather do more mechanical design though, like instead of designing the look of a Disney resort, designing the rides.
Being an Imagineer would be cool haha
But yes, that is a very cool amount of coincidences.
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I am still not sure where you think some tiny LAC provides a "superior education". Are you just getting caught up on the large class sizes you'll have for some courses? That doesn't make the education quality any worse. I can't speak to the amount of courses within one major and LAC may have. If they can keep up with the amount Michigan offers, I'd be surprised. If they can, good for them. I should have said breadth of degrees. Clearly there are more options at a larger university then some tiny LAC.
Of course Kenyon has successful alumni. Every school has successful alumni if they've been around long enough.
Here is a list of famous alumni from Michigan... for comparison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Michigan_alumni Entire Apollo 15 crew, co-founder of Google, owner of the Miami Dolphins... yep
Clearly, in any random company across the country (or planet) there is a much better chance you run in to a Michigan alum. I've already seen the benefit of this. Having this giant networking system is fantastic.
As for resources, there is no way Kenyon can even come close to Michigan. It just isn't financial or physically possible. We have a renowned hospital on campus. We have some of the best professors in the world. Literally anything you could want to advance your quality of study in on campus. Hell, our endowment last year was over $8 billion! We were like 7th in the country in that regard.
Here are the rankings I posted in the last thread we had this "debate" (these are about a year old now):
4) Here are some liberal arts program rankings for Michigan.
Mathematics #8
Physics #11
Biology #20
Chemistry #16
Comp Sci #13
Earth Science #9
Statistics #12
Economics #12
English #13
History #7
Library and Information Studies #4
Nursing #6
Pharmacy #7
Political Science #4
Psychology #4
Public Affairs #12
Public Health #4
Social Work #1
Sociology #4
From the site that had Michigan with a World Ranking of #14 (Social Sciences & Management #17, Natural Sciences #29 Life Sciences & Medicine #34, Arts & Humanities #16)
Here are some I just looked up now:
US News has Michigan as the 7th best undergrad engineering program in the country, 2nd for Mechanical Engineering (my major).
On the same site, Akron comes in at #122 for overall undergrad engineering........ definitely comparable, right? Right...
Here are the rankings I see for Michigan now on that site:
#2 Best Undergrad Business (#6 Accounting, #4 Finance, #6 International Business, #1 Management, #2 Marketing, #5 Production/Operations Management, #8 Quantitative Analysis, #10 Supply Chain Management/Logistics
#7 Best Undergrad Engineering (#3 Aero, #7 BME, #8 Civil, #7 CE, #6 EE, #4 Environmental, #2 Industrial/Manufacturing, #7 Materials, #2 ME, #8 Engineering Physics
#12 Undergrad Teaching
#11 Graduate Business School (#5 Accounting, #8 Entrepreneurship, #7 Executive MBA, #11 Finance, #6 International, #4 Management, #5 Marketing, #7 Nonprofit, #7 Part-time MBA, #4 Production/Operations, #9 Supply Chain/Logistics
#8 Best Education Schools - Graduate ( #5 Curriculum and Instruction, #6 Education Policy, #3 Education Psychology, #4 Elementary Teacher Education, #2 Higher Education Administration, #2 Secondary Teacher Education
#8 Graduate Engineering (#4 Aero, #8 Civil, #6 CE, #7 EE, #4 Environ, #2 Industrial/Manufacturing/ #10 Materials, #5 ME, #1 Nuclear
#10 Law Schools (#8 Clinical Training, #9 International Law)
#8 Medical Schools: Primary Care
#12 Medical Schools: Research (#6 Family Medicine, #4 Geriatrics, #8 Internal Medicine, #7 Women's Health)
#19 Biological Sciences
#15 Chemistry (#7 Analytical, #13 Biochemistry, #9 Organic)
#26 Clinical Psychology
#13 Computer Science (#11 Artificial Intelligence, #10 Systems)
#8 Earth Sciences (#5 Geochemistry, #2 Geology, #3 Paleontology)
#13 Economics (#6 International Economics, #6 Labor Economics, #5 Public Finance)
#13 English (#10 American Lit, #3 Gender and Lit, #10 Renaissance)
#27 Fine Arts
#1 Health Care Management
#7 History (#2 African History, #3 African-American History, #9 Asian History, #2 Culture History, #3 European History, #6 Modern US History, #7 US Colonial History, #3 Women's History)
#4 Library and Information Services (#1 Archives and Preservation, #4 Librarianship, #1 Info Systems)
#9 Math
#6 Nursing (#4 Adult, #4 Family, #12 Pediatric, #3 Administration)
#7 Pharmacy
#11 Physics
#4 Political Science (#3 American Politics, # Comparative Politics, #6 International Politics, #3 Political Methodology, #13 Political Theory)
#4 Psychology (#3 Behavioral Neuroscience, #5 Cognitive Psychology, #2 Developmental Psychology, #1 Social Psychology)
#12 Public Affairs (#3 Environ Policy and Management, #6 Health Policy and Management, #10 Public Finance and Budgeting, #3 Public-Policy Analysis, #1 Social Policy)
#4 Public Health
#1 Social Work
#4 Sociology (#7 Economic Sociology, #3 Historical Sociology, #5 Sex and Gender, #3 Social Stratification, #1 Sociology of Population)
#12 Statistics
Of course, this is just one site. Also, they like to move around the ratings slightly from year to year to sell subscriptions I guess. The specific discipline rankings are more reliable than the overall school rankings though. The point here is to see a pattern. A very obvious pattern....
Here are the rankings for Miami OH (what are available) for comparison. After all, it is a peer university...
Unranked - Business
#98 Education
#139 Biological Sciences
#131 Chemistry
#104 Clinical Psychology
#106 Earth Sciences
#77 English
#93 Fine Arts
#92 History
Unranked Political Science
#101 Psychology
#52 Speech-Language Pathology
Again, rankings aren't perfect... but I think these paint a pretty clear picture...
So let's recap:
1) Akron engineering doesn't sniff Michigan engineering
2) Miami of Ohio is not a peer institution
3) Kenyon College does not provide "superior education" the University of Michigan
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3) Kenyon College does not provide "superior education" the University of Michigan
It does, trust me...within what it teaches. You are comparing a school with 50,000 students to one with 1600.
80% of the curricula you list above is not offered in the little Liberal Arts College...so there can be no comparison there.
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1) Akron engineering doesn't sniff Michigan engineering. Still debatable. Nevertheless.....lets see where Akron is better than Michigan......Let's see now.......this is supposed to be a soccer thread.
Akron is better than Michigan at soccer:
Akron: National runnerups in 1986 and 2009
Akron: National Champions in 2010
Michigan: one single Soccer Final Four appearance, never made the title game
And who did Michigan lose to in it only final Four appearance?: Akron
Bada bing, bada boom. Close the thread.
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3) Kenyon College does not provide "superior education" the University of Michigan
It does, trust me...within what it teaches. You are comparing a school with 50,000 students to one with 1600.
80% of the curricula you list above is not offered in the little Liberal Arts College...so there can be no comparison there.
3) Kenyon College does not provide "superior education" the University of Michigan
It does, trust me...within what it teaches. You are comparing a school with 50,000 students to one with 1600.
80% of the curricula you list above is not offered in the little Liberal Arts College...so there can be no comparison there.
So your argument for the "superior" education is nothing more than "it's smaller"..... got it
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1) Akron engineering doesn't sniff Michigan engineering. Still debatable. Nevertheless.....lets see where Akron is better than Michigan......Let's see now.......this is supposed to be a soccer thread.
Akron is better than Michigan at soccer:
Akron: National runnerups in 1986 and 2009
Akron: National Champions in 2010
Michigan: one single Soccer Final Four appearance, never made the title game
And who did Michigan lose to in it only final Four appearance?: Akron
Bada bing, bada boom. Close the thread.
1) Akron engineering doesn't sniff Michigan engineering. Still debatable. (no... no its not) Nevertheless.....lets see where Akron is better than Michigan......Let's see now.......this is supposed to be a soccer thread.
Akron is better than Michigan at soccer:
Akron: National runnerups in 1986 and 2009
Akron: National Champions in 2010
Michigan: one single Soccer Final Four appearance, never made the title game
And who did Michigan lose to in it only final Four appearance?: Akron
Bada bing, bada boom. Close the thread.
On that note, I will accept your surrender.
(Also, because I know you know nothing about soccer, Michigan has not had a Men's Varsity team for very long. It is also important to not Akron is basically a club team, lol. Back around 2010 it seemed like half of their team was from Jamaica or something. But yes, they do have a better soccer team than us.)
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1) Akron engineering doesn't sniff Michigan engineering. Still debatable. (no... no its not) Nevertheless.....lets see where Akron is better than Michigan......Let's see now.......this is supposed to be a soccer thread.
Akron is better than Michigan at soccer:
Akron: National runnerups in 1986 and 2009
Akron: National Champions in 2010
Michigan: one single Soccer Final Four appearance, never made the title game
And who did Michigan lose to in it only final Four appearance?: Akron
Bada bing, bada boom. Close the thread.
On that note, I will accept your surrender.
(Also, because I know you know nothing about soccer, Michigan has not had a Men's Varsity team for very long. It is also important to not Akron is basically a club team, lol. Back around 2010 it seemed like half of their team was from Jamaica or something. But yes, they do have a better soccer team than us.)
On that note, I will surrender.
Your surrender is unnecessary. You have been conquered. Conquerors don't require the vanquished to surrender.
(Also, because I know you know nothing about soccer, A fact that I am proud of, like I said, cricket, soceer, muggle quidditch...all on about par for me.
Michigan has not had a Men's Varsity team for very long.
Flimsy excuse. Though...it does make me think more highly of Michigan a bit. Apparently they were aware of the insignificance of soccer for a very long time.
It is also important to not Akron is basically a club team, lol.
I don't think "club" teams win National Championships. I guess Alabama football is a "club team".
Back around 2010 it seemed like half of their team was from Jamaica or something.
I just know they won....I followed the games a bit...but knew nothing about the players. I mean, its not like it was football or basketball.
I do know that the coach lived in Wadsworth and his wife worked with my wife. Porter I believe his name is....and now I understand that he is the HC of one of the MLS teams, maybe Portland?
But yes, they do have a better soccer team than us.)
I am not sure that it has maintained the same status since Porter left.
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My bad, I was unclear of what I meant by saying club. I didn't mean it in the sense of Intramurals, Club then Varsity. I meant it as they were more of a pro club team than a college soccer team. They were pulling in guys from out of the country that were very good so they could play soccer. I am not sure how many actually got their degree and it looked like more of a tryout for MLS for them. It wasn't against the rules or anything though and Akron had some very good teams because of it.
Michigan's first year of varsity soccer was 1999. We made a run in 2010 in large part to having two brothers that made MLS teams. One was a Sr that had been around for awhile. The other was his freshman brother that came in having scored the most goals ever in high school in Michigan and he ended that freshman season with a bunch of awards. He left after one season for the MLS. After that season Michigan actually decided "Hey, maybe we could put some money into this?" and we hired a high profile coach. I mean shit, we have guys donate $200 million to the university, and they request half go to athletics, I think we can give something to soccer.
But again... you admitting you don't know anything about soccer doesn't help you in any of these arguments, on this thread and the other. Just like you not knowing anything about college rankings and how good some universities are doesn't help you in our above "debate"....
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My bad, I was unclear of what I meant by saying club. I didn't mean it in the sense of Intramurals, Club then Varsity. I meant it as they were more of a pro club team than a college soccer team. They were pulling in guys from out of the country that were very good so they could play soccer. I am not sure how many actually got their degree and it looked like more of a tryout for MLS for them. It wasn't against the rules or anything though and Akron had some very good teams because of it.
Michigan's first year of varsity soccer was 1999. We made a run in 2010 in large part to having two brothers that made MLS teams. One was a Sr that had been around for awhile. The other was his freshman brother that came in having scored the most goals ever in high school in Michigan and he ended that freshman season with a bunch of awards. He left after one season for the MLS. After that season Michigan actually decided "Hey, maybe we could put some money into this?" and we hired a high profile coach. I mean shit, we have guys donate $200 million to the university, and they request half go to athletics, I think we can give something to soccer.
But again... you admitting you don't know anything about soccer doesn't help you in any of these arguments, on this thread and the other. Just like you not knowing anything about college rankings and how good some universities are doesn't help you in our above "debate"....
My bad, I was unclear of what I meant by saying club. I didn't mean it in the sense of Intramurals, Club then Varsity. I meant it as they were more of a pro club team than a college soccer team. They were pulling in guys from out of the country that were very good so they could play soccer. I am not sure how many actually got their degree and it looked like more of a tryout for MLS for them. It wasn't against the rules or anything though and Akron had some very good teams because of it.
Again, I just know they were good and won. I had no clue where they were came from.
Michigan's first year of varsity soccer was 1999. We made a run in 2010 in large part to having two brothers that made MLS teams. One was a Sr that had been around for awhile. The other was his freshman brother that came in having scored the most goals ever in high school in Michigan and he ended that freshman season with a bunch of awards. He left after one season for the MLS. After that season Michigan actually decided "Hey, maybe we could put some money into this?" and we hired a high profile coach. I mean shit, we have guys donate $200 million to the university, and they request half go to athletics, I think we can give something to soccer.
TMI than I care about.
But again... you admitting you don't know anything about soccer doesn't help you in any of these arguments, on this thread and the other.
I wasn't making any kind of an argument. I was merely pointing to the scoreboard. (At least I will give soccer this: it is not one of those "judged sports, like ice skating or gymnastics that you get in the Olympics. One can point to a scoreboard in soccer)
Just like you not knowing anything about college rankings and how good some universities are doesn't help you in our above "debate"....
I told you more than you want to know about college ranking, like I know is that a lot of those college ranking systems are paid for. Like I said, Forbes puts an inordinate value on how many college alumni subscribe and pay to be in their owned publication of Who's Who. Some of the others may be similar to that.
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